Mr. von Ribbentrop's private art objects too were catalogued ant the objects themselves marked distinctly by me." says:
"During the war he did not acquire any art objects illegally from any of the territories accupied by German troops be it for his own private use or for the Foreign Office of the Reich." the private financial affairs of the defendant von Ribbentrop and had annually made a survey of them together with a chartered accountant for the purpose of taxes and his inventory. the Exhibit Number 317 and which is in the document book at page 749, and from which I propose to read.
This is an affidavit from Mrs. von Ribbentrop given before a notary in Nurnberg. It refers to accusations raised by the Prosecution in connection with the Russian policy pursued by Ribbentrop. I am quoting, as follows:
"In 1940 we had a very inadequate air-raid shelter in the Foreign Office(official residence). During air-raids we therefore, and on the orders of Adolf Hitler, we used the air-raid shelter of the Reich Chancellery, since he was anxious to see that my husband, in his capacity as Reich Foreign Minister, and the documentsof the Foreign Office should be safe from air-raids. I was at that time expecting my youngest child, which was born on 19 December, 1940, and can therefore clearly remember an air-raid which took place shortly before this event, which caused us to go to the air-raid shelter of the Reich Chancellery. On this occasion Adolf Hitler was also present and came into our room in the shelter. He, my husband, and I sat at a table in this room. In the course of our stay my husband spoke at length of his efforts to induce Russia to join the Tri-partite Pact. He presented the possibilities of such diplomatic action and his process of thought, asto how he imagined the conclusion of such a pact. I remember clearly that Adolf Hitler closed the conversation with the words: 'Ribbentrop, why shouldn't we be able to manage that, when we have managed so many things?'
"My husband presented his ideas with great elan and with great impressiveness. After he had finished I noticed that Adolf Hitler, who had received my husband's statements without pertinent remarks, seemed to be a little absent-minded so that I had the impression that my husband's statements had not made any convincing impression." Ribbentrop was still anxious to avoid a conflict with Russia. von Ribbentrop.
THE PRESIDENT: Sir David, could you inform us how far you have been able to get with Dr. Thoma in connection with his documents, that is the Rosenberg documents?
SIR DAVID MAXWELLFYFE: My Lord, the American delegation and the French are dealing with Rosenberg.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps Mr. Dodd can tell us.
MR. DODD: Captain Krieger of our staff, your Honor, has been in consultation with Dr. Thoma and will continue to be in an effort to follow the procedures laid out by the Court. that we have concluded our conversations with Dr. Dix and we are, I guess it is fair to say, at some differences and I think it would be necessary to have a hearing by the Court on these matters that we do not agree on. However, we have agreed to a considerable number of Schacht items.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but what I want to insure is that there shall be no delay at the end of Kaltenbrunner's case.
With reference to Rosenberg's case I understand the documents in the Rosenberg case which have been suggested we might have to consider are very numerous and the sooner the Tribunal gets to them the better.
MR. DODD: We shall be available at all times to talk with Dr. Thoma and move right along, in the evening if he cares to do so.
THE PRESIDENT: It might be possibly desirable, it seems to me, to have the documents which have been translated presented to the Tribunal before the others, I mean to say not have them all together because there are no doubt various volumes.
MR. DODD: There are three so far, I understand there will be mere. But we will press it and continue to talk with Dr. Thoma and just as soon as possible on the first book we will be prepared to come before the Court for a hearing.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, Dr. Thoma wouldn't the best thing be for you to submit the volumes which have been translated to the court so that they can consider them beforehead as we did with Dr. Horn's Books?
DR. THOMA: Yes, My Lord, that is possible with the documents which have already been processed. With reference to my books numbers two and three, I have discussed them with Captain Kriegar in room 216 and we came to an agreement.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, you could specify that agreement in the books. I suppose You could show which documents you were prepared to withdraw.
DR. THOMA: Yes, my Lord.
THE PRESIDENT: Well then, as soon as possible you will let the General Secretary have those books, showing the agreement which you have made with Captain Kreiger, is that right?
DR. THOMA: But I do want to point out that I have only come to an agreement with Captain Kreiger in room 216 with reference to books two and three and that only refers to the Action Group (Einsatzstab). Rosenberg but I shall do that in due course.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. Is that in book one?
DR. THOMA: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if you are unable to come to an agreement you can specify that and we will consider those matters. Possibly you could take some time tomorrow with Captain Kreiger, take off from Court, in order to come to an agreement with reference to book one and with reference to the other books.
How many more books have you get?
DR. THOMA: All together four.
THE PRESIDENT: Four more?
DR. THOMA: All together four document books.
THE PRESIDENT: So there is only one more to be translated.
(Whereupon at 1700 hours the hearing of the Tribunal adjourned to reconvene on Thursday, April 11, 1946 at 1000 hours.)
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, Dr. Sauter for the defendant Funk. On Saturday last, when sickness prevented me from attending the session, the question came up in which sequence the defense for the defendants Funk and Dr. Schacht should be handled, and the President has expressed the wish to hear my statement on the subject as soon as possible. I have discussed the matter with my client and the defense counsel for Dr. Schacht and I am willing to agree and I suggest that the defense for the defendant Schacht come first and that the case of the defendant Funk, for reasons of suitability, should then come after the case for the defendant Schacht has been completed. I wanted to inform you of that, Mr. President, so that the Tribunal is up to date.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly.
MR. DODD: If your Honors please, I should like to call the attention of the Tribunal to the fact that with respect to the documents for the defendant Rosenberg, we have finished our conversations with Dr. Thoma on a number and there are a number of matters which will require a hearing before the Tribunal. We were not able to agree on a number of them and, as I said yesterday, we are prepared to be heard on the applications of Dr. Schacht.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, we will arrange a time for that. Now, Dr. Kauffmann.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Dr. Kauffmann, counsel for Kaltenbrunner. Mr. President, I am now beginning the defense in the case of the accused Kaltenbrunner. considering the extraordinarily severe accusations which have been raised. The way I am picturing the case for the defense is that with the permission of the Tribunal, I would quote from the short document book, quote two short documents first and that after that, with permission of the Tribunal, I would propose to put the defendant into the witness stand and that after that, I would examine one or two witnesses.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks that that course would be appropriate but I wanted to draw your attention --
Dr. Kauffmann, there were four witnesses who were called for the prosecution, Ohlendorf, Hoellriegel, and Wisliceny --
THE PRESIDENT: You asked for leave at an earlier stage to that they must be called before your witnesses.
Therefore, the cross examination.
You do not?
DR. KAUFFMANN: No, Mr. President, neither Ohlendorf nor
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
DR. KAUFFMANN: May I now read those two documents I have mentioned?
To begin with there is the affidavit from the witness Dr. Mildner, which is contained in the document book.
I am asking the Tribunal to take judicial notice of it.
It is KR-1.
I am now reading:
"I, the undersigned, Dr. Mildner, at present in prison in put by attorney Dr. Kaufmann, for presentation to the Inter national Military Tribunal:
"First question: Give details of yourself.
"Answer: I was entrusted with certain tasks for the Gestapo for about ten years.
From 1938 to 1945 I came under office IV, the RSHA.
I was only in the RSHA Berlin itself for approximately three months, that is to say, from March to June 1944.
Apart "Second Question:
What can you say in regard to Kalten brunner's personality?
"Answer: From my own knowledge I can confirm the following:
I know the defendant Kaltenbrunner personally. His private life was beyond reproach.
In my opinion his appointment to chief of under him who could have endangered him in his position.
The Himmler.
Kaltenbrunner had no ambition to gain recognition for There was no question of a lust for power in his case.
It is wrong to call him 'the little Himmler.
' "Third Question:
What attitude did Kaltenbrunner adopt towards office IV, Amt IV (Gestapo)?"Answer:
I know of no specific limitation of the defendant Kaltenbrunner's competence with regard to the offices which came under the RSHA.
On the other hand, I can say that the chief of and the methods of his office, No. IV.
He had, after all, "Fourth Question:
Did you ever see any orders for executions by Kaltenbrunner?
"Answer: I have never seen an original order--that is to brunner.
I know quite well that orders for protective custody This was a custom which had grown in Heydrich's time.
"Fifth Question: Did orders for executions rest in Kalten brunner's or Himmler's hands?
Who was responsible for the setting up and running of concentration camps?
"Answer: I know that execution orders rested in Himmler's hands.
So far as I know no other sections of the RSHA could issue such orders without his permission.
I know, furthermore, that chief of which was Pohl.
The concentration camps had nothing to do with the RSHA.
This applies to the whole of the administra tion, food, treatment, camp regulations, etc.
The inspector of concentration camps was Gluecks.
The official channels were therefore:
Himmler, Pohl, Gluecks, Camp Commandant.
"Sixth Question: Did Kaltenbrunner order any of the con centration camps to be evacuated?
"Answer: Nothing is known to me that the defendant Kalten "Seventh Question:
Did Kaltenbrunner issue the order to them to the concentration camp at Theresienstadt?
"Answer: No. The reason why I can answer this question cerned with this matter in Denmark in September 1943.
The chief stadt.
I flew to Berlin to try and get this order canceled.
which the Jewish operation was to be carried out. Kaltenbrunner, therefore, did not issue the order.
I didn't speak to him even.
"Read and found correct.
"Nurnberg, 29 March 1946.
"Signed: Dr. Mildner."
The next affidavit copies from Dr. Hoettl.
MR. DODD: We are faced with a new problem. I do not think this question has arisen heretofore.
The Prosecution submitted a cross interrogation to this man Dr. Mildner, and we are not quite certain as to just how we should proceed.
Should we now offer our cross interrogation, or at a later stage?
THE PRESIDENT: We think you should read it now.
MR. DODD: Very well.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, may I just say One thing about that. This is the first time that I near that the prosecution has also put questions to the same witness, which he has also answered. I think this is the first case of this kind which has been put before the Tribunal.
Wouldn't it have been a suitable solution that his answers would have been communicated to me, since I submitted my affidavit to the Prosecution a very long time ago?
THE PRESIDENT: They certainly should be. The Tribunal thinks they certainly should have been communicated to you at the same time that they were received.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is the answer to be read nevertheless? I would rather like to raise formal objection to that and ask the Tribunal for a decision.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, why were these not submitted to Dr. Kauffmann?
MR. DODD: This cross-affidavit and interrogatory was only taken yesterday, and the material just wasn't ready until this morning. We regret that, and had it been ready it would, of course, have been turned over to him. If he would like to have some time to look it over, we, of course, would not object.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kauffmann, in the circumstances we will postpone the reading of these cross-interrogatories in order that you may consider then, and, if you think it right, you may object to any of the questions or answers and we will then consider that matter.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Thank you.
"I, the undersigned, Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, make the following affidavit in answer to the questions put by attorney Dr. Kauffmann for presentation to the International Military Tribunal."
THE PRESIDENT: Can you give a number to this document?
DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes, KR No. 2.
"The first question:
"Give exact details of yourself. What was your official position in the SD? Where did you know Dr. Kaltenbrunner?
"Answer:
"I was born on the 19th of March, 1915, in Vienna; by profession a historian. My occupation up to the time of the German collapse was that of Consultant to Amt VI--Intelligence Service Abroad--of the RSHA. After the Anschluss with Austria in 1938 I voluntarily joined the SD. Coming from the National Catholic Youth Movement, I set myself theaim of steering a moderate political course for my country.
"I made the acquaintance of Kaltenbrunner in 1938; he knew that the above was my aim.
"In 1941, on the personal orders of Heydrich, I was called before the SA and the SS and Police Court for being under religious influence and for being unreliable from the political and ideological point of view, and had to join the ranks as an ordinary private. After Heydrich's death I was pardoned and, at the beginning of 1943; drafted by the Chief of Ant VI of the RSHA, Schellenberg, into his office.
Here I was in charge of the Vatican Referat Department, as well as of some State Referats in the Balkans.
"When Kaltenbrunner was appointed Chief of the RSHA at the beginning of 1943, I was continually in touch with him at work, particularly since he was endeavoring to draw the group of Austrians in the RSHA nearer to him.
"The second question:
"Give an estimate of the numbers involved at the Head office of the RSHA in Berlin.
"Answer:
"At the Head Office in Berlin, Department 4, the Gestapo, had approximately 1500 members; Department 5, Criminal Police, 1200; Departments 3 and 6, Intelligence Service at Home and Abroad, three to four hundred each.
"The third question:
"What is understood by SD and what were its tasks?
"Answer:
"Heydrich organized the so-called Sicherheitsdienst--Security Service, known as the SD--- in 1932. Its task was to give the highest German authorities and the individual Reich offices information on all happenings at home and abroad.
"The SD was purely an information service and had no sort of executive authority. Only individual persons belonging to the SD were drafted to the so-called special units, Einsatzkommando, in the East. They thereby assumed executive positions, and they resigned from the SD during that period. There were Special Purpose Groups and Special purpose Units of the Security Police and the SD up to the last, also in Africa, even in 1944, in Hungary and Czechoslovakia.
"These Kommando units had nothing to do with executions. Their tasks had generally become similar to those of the Security Police in the meantime. As far as I know, executions were only carried out in Russia, and these on the strength of the so-called Commissar Order by Hitler.
Whether these units ceased their activity after Kaltenbrunner was named Chief of the RSHA, or whether they continued, I do not know.
"Fourth question:
"Do you know about the Eichmann operation to exterminate the Jews?
"Answer: end of August 1944. At that time Eichmann himself gave me detailed information. Eichmann explained, among other things, that the whole action was a special Reich secret and was known to only very few people. The number of members of this unit, in my opinion, could hardly have been more than a total of 100 people.
"Fifth question:
"What do you know about the official relationship between Eichmann and Kaltenbrunner?
"Answer:
"I know nothing about the official relations between the two. Eichmann may well have had no direct official contact with Kaltenbrunner. He often asked me to arrange a meeting with Kaltenbrunner for him. Kaltenbrunner always refused.
"Sixth question:
"What was the relationship between Kaltenbrunner and the Chief of the Secret State Police, Mueller?
"Answer:
"I cannot give any details about their official relations. It is a certainty, however, that Mueller always acted quite independently. He had gained great experience in Secret State Police matters over a period of many years. Himmler thought highly of him. Kaltenbrunner didn't think anything of him at all. Kaltenbrunner had neither technical experience in police questions nor any interest in them. The Intelligence Service took up the main part of his attention and all his interest, expecially in so far as it concerned foreign countries.
"Seventh question:
"Who wasin charge of the concentration camps?
"Answer:
"The SS Office of Economic Administration had sole charge of the concentration camps; that is, not the RSHA, and therefore not Kaltenbrunner. He, therefore, had no power to give orders and no competency in this sphere. Judging by my opinion of him as a man, Kaltenbrunner certainly did not approve of the atrocities committed in the concentration camps. I do not know whether he knew about them.
"Eighth question:
"Did Kaltenbrunner issue or transmit an order according to which enemy aviators who made forced landings were to be given no protection in the event of lynch justice being carried out by the population?
"Answer:
"No, I never heard about anything of the kind from Kaltenbrunner, although I was with him a great deal. As far as I can remember, however, Himmler issued an order of this kind.
"Ninth question:
"Did Kaltenbrunner issue orders that Jews were to be killed?
"Answer: No, he never issued such orders, and, in my opinion, he could not issue such orders on his own authority. In my opinion, he was opposed to Hitler and Himmler on this question; that is, the physical extermination of European Jewry.
"Tenth question:
"What church policy did Kaltenbrunner pursue?
"Answer:
"As a Vatican advisor, I often had the opportunity of speaking to him officially on this subject. He immediately supported my suggestion, made to Hitler in the spring of 1943, that a change in church policy should be effected so that the Vatican could be won over as a peace negotiator on this basis. Kaltenbrunner had no success with Hitler, as Himmler took up the strongest attitude against him. The German Ambassador, Baron von Weizsaecker, with whom I discussed the matter, had equally little success with the Pope. Bormann had an eye kept on him for this reason.
"Eleventh question:
"Did Kaltenbrunner intervene in foreign policy in the interest of peace?
"Answer:
"Yes. In the Hungarian question, for example, he was successful in March 1944, when the German troops occupied Hungary, in persuading Hitler to moderation and in preventing Roumanian and Slovak units from marching in as planned. Thanks to his support, I was able to prevent a planned National Socialist government from being formed in Hungary for another six months." defendant Kaltenbrunner to go to the witness stand.
THE PRESIDENT: There appears to be some difficulty with the No. 1 channel, and the Tribunal will, therefore, recess.
(A recess was taken)
THE PRESIDENT: Now, Dr. Kauffmann, are you going to call the defendant?
Dr. Kauffmann (Counsel for Dependant Kaltenbrunner): Mr. President, I have committed a small error. I did not read page five of my document book. That is question 12 and 13 of the affidavit, which I failed to read. May I apologize an may I have your permission to read that now?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I continue on page five:
" Kaltenbrunner wanted the old Austro-Hugary to be re-established on a federative basis.
" Since 1943 I had favoured the view when talking so Kaltenbrunner that Germany must endeavour to end the war by peace at any price. I told him about m connection with an American office in Lisbon. I also told Kaltenbrunner that I had recently made a contact with an American office in a neutral country through the Austrian resistance movement. He said he was also prepared to travel to Switzerland with me and start the negotiations with an American representative i order to avoid further pointless bloodshed.
"12th Question: Do you know that Kaltenbrunner instructed the Commandant of Mauthausen Concentration Camp to hand over the Camp to the approaching troops?
"Answer: It is correct that Kaltenbrunner did give such an order. He dictated it in my presence, to be forwarded to the Camp Commandant.
"13th Question: Can you say something briefly about Kaltenbrunner's personality?
"Answer: Kaltenbrunner was a completely different man from Hitler or Heydrich. He was therefore strongly and fundamentally opposed to both of them. He was appointed Chief of the RSHA, in my opinion, because Himmler did not want to run the risk of having a rival like Heydrich. It would be wrong to call him 'little Himmler'. In my opinion, he was never in complete control of the large office of RSHA and occupied himself very much more with the Intelligence Service and the influencing of policy as a whole, being very little interested in police and executive tasks. He regarded the former as his particular sphere."
THE PRESIDENT: Have you any more documents?
DR. KAUFFMANN: No.
THE PRESIDENT: How you wish to call the defendant
DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes.
ERNST KALTENBRUNNER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Will you state your full name please?
Q Repeat this oath after me: I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing, so help me God.
(The witness repeated the oath.) BY DR. KAUFFMANN: of the security Police and the SD and the Chief of the so-called Main Security Office of the Reich, the RSHA. You are aware, of course, that you are particularly accused. The Prosecution is accusing you of having committed crimes against the peace, and you are accused of intellectual participation in connection with crimes against humanity and international law. Finally, the Prosecution is connecting your name with the terror of the Gestapo and the cruelties in the concentration camps. I now ask you, Do you assume responsibility within the framework of these considerable accusations, which are known to you? aware of the serious character of the accusations against me. I know the hatred of the whole world is directed against me, particularly since Mueller, Himmler and Pohl are no longer alive, which makes me the only man who is facing the world and the Tribunal to answer to them. I am aware that I shall have to tell the truth in this courtroom and that the Tribunal and the world must be put in a position wherein they can recogonize the events in Germany during this war, understand them and pass judgment on them. was called into an office. Regarding the details of that I shall make a state ment later, but right at the beginning, I would like to state that for everything that happened since my appointment to the Chief of RSHA, in that department, for every wrong that was committed there, as far as it happened under my actual control, which means that I knew about it and about events, for all that, I assume responsibility.
May I ask permission so that my defense counsel may put questions to me so as to direct *y memory.
a public figure, until you entered Austrian politics, that is 1934.
A I was born in 1903. My father and my grandfather were respectable solicitors. My mother comes from a simple family. She was adopted by the Belgian Ambassador to Rumania and lived there for twenty-five years. education by being placed in a good family and at the same time I was brought near to the Austrian character. I attended secondary school, I passed my matriculation examination and in 1923 I went to high school -- university in Graz. First of all I studied chemical technical sciences at the technical high school and later when my father returned from the war seriously ill and when the possibility arose that I might have to take over his law practice, I studied law. I completed my studies with a grade of Doctor of National and State Law in 1926.
I had to go through a difficult time. I had to earn my own living and the expenses for my studies and for two years I worked as a coal miner during the night shift. well as anybody. or eight years I became a solicitor's apprentice, which was necessary under Austrian law. Then I practiced at the courts of law for one year. Is it correct that in 1932 you became a member of the Party? longed to the Austrian H ome Protection Squad for several years.