of the SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, the production side was also important: if a prisoner was needed in the camp because he was good, even though all conditions for release existed, he could not be released. The concentration camps were surrounded by a sphere of secrecy. The prisoner could not have any free contact with the public.
MR. DODD: Mr. President, we do not have the first responsibility, of course, for this defense. But I have discussed with Mr. Elwyn Jones my objection, and he finds no fault with it. It seems to me that what we are hearing here is a lecture on the prosecution's case, and I do not see how it in any sense can be said to be a defense of the SS.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, the Tribunal thinks that the latter part of the evidence does not have much bearing on the case of the SS. They think it would be better that you should get on with the case for the SS.
DR. PELCKMANN: The case against the SS is essentially based on the assertion that the SS as a whole is responsible for the concentration camps. I am endeavoring to explain the concentration camp system from the ground up with all questions which have not yet been explained, to find out the truth. And I believe that it is necessary for the Tribunal to know this truth in order to be able to judge whether the charge that the SS as a whole is responsible for the atrocities and the mass exterminations in the concentration camps, or in the extermination camps.
THE PRESIDENT: Kindly go on with your case, then, Dr. Pelckmann. Will you kindly go on and make it as short as you can upon these matters which seem to be rather remote.
DR. PELCKMANN: From all the testimony of witnesses which I have brought out here on this point, it will be shown that the concentration camp system was a closed system.
THE PRESIDENT: Go on with your case. You are to go on with your case, and not argue with me.
BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. Witness, what were the further negative observations which you made? Please be brief as the Court wishes.
A. The prisoner could not contact the public freely, and so his observations were not made known to the public. In effect, he was subordinate to the power of the camp. This meant's that he had to fear that at any time crimes could be committed against him. I do not have this impression from these facts from which I could not gain the impression that their purpose was to produce a system of crimes; but, of necessity, individual crimes had to arise from all these circumstances.
Q. Witness, the events of the atrocities and the mass exterminations in the concentration camps are precisely what was charged against the SS. Ple describe how these crimes are to be divided into three categories, and what that has to do with the total planning of the SS. According to your information, I distinguish between atrocities caused by conditions beyond control atrocities caused by supreme orders, and atrocities caused by individual criminal acts.
A. A large majority of the horrible conditions in some concentration camps at times did not arise from planning, but developed from circumstance which I must call evil, but for which the local camp leaders were not responsible. I am thinking of the outbreak of epidemics. At irregular intervals many concentration camps became victims of typhus, caused especially by the arrival of prisoners from the Southeastern area. Although everything humanly possible was done to prevent these epidemics and to combat them, the death rate which resulted was sometimes extremely high. Many camps were overcrowded. Long transport lines were closed by air-raids and the prisoners arrived in a weakened condition. Towards the end of the war, there was a general collapse of the transportation system. Deliveries could not be carried out to the necessary extent; chemical and pharmaceutical factories had been bombed. There was a lack of medical care. And as a result of the evacuations from the East, the camps, of necessity, had to be overcrowded.
Q. That is enough on this point. Will you go on to the second point, please ?
A. As supreme orders were considered in the mass extermination of human beings which I have described, not in the concentration camps but in separate extermination places, execution orders of the RSHA against individuals and groups of persons also existed.
Q. Will you go on to the third point, please ?
A. The third point was the majority of individual crimes-
THE PRESIDENT: Which is the witness talking about when he talks about extermination camps?
Which are you talking about? Which do you call extermination camps BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. Please answer the question, witness.
A. By extermination camps I mean those which dealt exclusively with the purpose of the extermination of human beings with the use of technical means, such as gas.
THE PRESIDENTS Which were they ?
THE WITNESS: Yesterday I described the four plans of the Criminal Commission, WIRT, and referred to the camp Auschwitz. By "Extermination Camp Auschwitz" I did not mean the concentration camp. It did not exist there. But I meant a separate extermination camp near Auschwitz.
THE PRESIDENTS What were the other ones ?
THE WITNESS: I do not know of any other extermination camps. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. You were speaking of atrocities on the basis of individual acts of a criminal nature,
A. One must distinguish between the perpetrators. To begin with, there were killings by one prisoner of another, for example, for purposes of revenge. If a prisoner had broken out, then during the search, because one did not know where the prisoner was hiding -- perhaps in the camp Itself -the whole camp had to line up on the parade grounds. That lasted for hours, and sometimes a whole day.
The prisoners were tired and hungry, and this long standing, sometimes in the cold or rain, excited them very much, so that when the prisoner was recaptured the other prisoners sometimes killed him out of motives of revenge. of them was spy. In self-defense an attempt was made to kill this prisoner There were cases in which individual prisoners were weak and could not work very well. And, in addition, either by bad conduct or by stealing bread or by other things aroused the anger of other prisoners. criminals be can understand that these people killed fellow prisoners. This was done in many ways.
Q I don't think you need explain that at the moment. Perhaps we may come back to it. But will you describe another type of perpetrator? especially by the Kapos. I could describe the case of the commandant of the concentration camp Buchenwald, who was tried and executed, Koch. A prisoner was sent to the concentration camp Buchenwald who was a Party member. He received the position of leader of a Corps. He misused this position to force Polish household employees to commit perverse actions with him with a threat of dismissal although he himself was suffering with syphilis. This man was given a long imprisonment sentence and after that was assigned to the concentration camp. Koch found his files, considered the sentence mistaken, and thought it necessary to correct an error of justice. He had this prisoner killed, Another case of an entirely different sort: Koch believed that a certain Jewish prisoner, who was conspicuous because of his physical marks, was following him. In the superstitious fear of bad lick, he one day gave instructions to have this prisoner killed. Another case: Koch believed that criminal activity, or certain personal relationships, were known to some prisoners. In order to protect himself, he had them killed. the camp know about them?
A That was very simple. The prisoners in question were held up, without giving reasons, and had to report to gates of the camp. That was not especially noticeable because almost every hour prisoners were called for questioning for removal to other camps and so forth. These prisoners, without the other prisoners knowing about it, came to the so-called Kommandantur prison, which was outside the camp. They stayed there a few days, sometimes one or two weeks, and then the prison manager had them killed, sometimes in the form of a sham inoculation: actually, they were given an injection of phenol into the arteries. Another possibility of secret killing was the assignment to the hospital. The doctor said a man needed treatment, After sometime he was put into a single room and was killed there. In all these cases the record showed that the prisoner had died of such and such a normal illness. Another case: the prisoner was assigned to a detail of hard work, generally the so-called "Quarry detail". The Kapo of this detail was told to make the life of the prisoner hard by making his work harder and persecuting him in all ways.
Then one day the prisoner, in order to escape this persecution, runs away and has to be shot by the guard whether he wants to or not. These various forms of killing varied from case to case. By that vary far they were so unrecognizable because it took place in secret places by various methods at various times. This commandant who did this, like Kock here, had to r rely on certain special men in key positions, such as the doctors here who was arrested, the man in charge of the prison who was also arrested, the man in charge of the prison who was also arrested and committed suicide, and with the aid of Kapos who were devoted to him and who would cooperate with him. Where this cooperation was not possible, such excesses and crimes could not occur.
Q Did you find such cases and such camps?
A Yes. I have already mentioned the result of our investigation. Since the majority of the camps were set up during the war with new personnel and in the old camps the personnel in key positions was changed so that new people came in, this cooperation could no longer take place. all camp doctors acted in the way you have just described? tion would be completely wrong. I met many commandants who did everything humanly possible for their prisoners. I met dozers whose every effort was to help sick prisoners and prevent further sickness. ed. You spoke of Kriminalkommissar Wirt who was not a member of the SS and whose staff did not consist of SS men. Why was Wirt given the assignment?
A Wirt was Kriminalkommissar with the Criminal Police in Stuttgart. He was a Kommissar to investigate capital crimes, particularly murder. He had quite a reputation in tracing clues, and before the seizure of power he was known to the general public of unscrupulous methods of investigation which even led to a discussion in the Wuerthemberg Landtag (Diet). This man was now used in order to cover up the traces of these mass killings. It was thought that, on the basis of his previous experience, this man was unscrupulous enough to carry them out, and that was true.
Q You mentioned the Jewish prisoners who aided in the killings. What became of these people?
and the profits which he had let them have was taken away from them again. He did not do this all at once but through the deception maneuver already described by taking individuals and groups gradually, segregating them and killing them individually.
Q Did you hear from Wirt the name Hoess?
A Yes. Wirt called him an untalented student.
Q Why?
A In contrast to Wirt, Hoess used entirely different methods. I would best describe them if we speak of Auschwitz itself.
Q Was the name Eichmann mentioned at that time? later I heard of him too.
Q How did you come on the trail which led to Auschwitz?
A I had the first occasion through Wirt himself. Now I had to find a reason to institute investigations in Auschwitz itself. My assignment was limited; it was to investigate crimes of corruption.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, didn't he explain how he came to investigate Auschwitz yesterday?
DR. PELCKMANN: No, it is something different, Your Lordship.
THE WITNESS: Yesterday I spoke only of Lublin and Wirt. I said I received information about Hoess and wanted to get into the camp and needed a reason. I found this reason very soon. The Protectorate Police had heard about the smuggling of gold in the Protectorate. The traces led to Berlin. The customs agency, Berlin-Branenburg, had discovered persons in the concentration camp Auschwitz were responsible. Proceedings were turned over to the SS and Police Court in Berlin. I learned of it there and there proceedings concerning the enormous gold smuggling I took over and went to Auschwitz.
Q Then you were in Auschwitz proper?
THE PRESIDENT: When did you go there?
THE WITNESS: I cannot give the date exactly, but it was probably the end of 1943 or the beginning of 1944. BY DR. PELCKMANN: cribed yesterday? ment. The prisoners arrived in closed, railroad transports and were unloaded there by Jewish prisoners. Then they were sorted out according to those capable or incapable of working, and here the methods of Hoess and Wirt differed. The selection of those incapable of all work was done in a fairly simple way. There were several trucks and the doctor told the arrivals to use the trucks. He said that only six old persons and women with children, were allowed to use them. These persons went to the transports and then they needed only to tell the prisoners that they were not being sent to destruction. These trucks drove off but they did not drive to the concentration camp Auschwitz, but in another direction to the extermination camp Monowitz which was a few kilometers away. This extermination camp consisted of a number of crematoriums. They were not recognizable as such from the outside. They could be considered large bathing establishments. This was told to the prisoner. Each crematorium was surrounded by a barbed wire fence and was guarded by the Jewish details which I have already mentioned. The prisoners were led into a big room and told to take their clothing off. When this was done ....
Q Is that not what you described yesterday? secret? knowing where the other prisoners were being taken or that they were being taken to the extermination camp Monowitz which was far from the camp of Auschwitz.
Q Please speak slowly.
as such. It was guarded on the outside by special troops, men from the Baltics, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians, and Ukranians. The technical arrangement was, of course, exclusively in the hands of the prisoners themselves, supervised by an Unterfuehrer. The letting in of the gas was done by another Unterfuehrer. The number of those who knew about these things was extremely limited. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Were these Unterfuehrers in the SS?
Q Didn't you take the trouble to ascertain whether they were proper members of the SS?
Q I do not care what you have already said. What I asked you was, didn't you take the trouble to ascertain whether they were members of the SS?
A I beg your pardon, your Lordship. I did not understand your question.
They could not be members of the General SS. As far as I could learn, they were volunteers and draftees who had been recruited in the Baltic countries and who carried out security tasks and were especially selected and came to Auschwitz and Monowitz. These were special troops who had only this special task and no other. They were completely outside of the Waffen SS.
Q I didn't ask you if they were in the Waffen SS. Did you ask questions as to why they were put into SS uniforms?
A No, I did not ask these questions. It seemed incomprehensible to me. It is probably connected with the fact that the Commander of the concentration camp ....
Q Wait a minute. You said, as I understand it, that you considered it incomprehensible why they were the SS uniforms. Didn't you say that?
Q Were there no officers of the SS there at all? fuehrer Hartenstein, or something like that.
Q Why didn't you ask him why these men were put into SS uniforms? of the SS Standartenfuehrer Hoess. Hoess was commandant of the concentration camp Auschwitz, and also of the extermination camp, Monowitz. Around Auschwitz were a number of labor camps.
Q I didn't ask you where. what I am asking you is why you didn't ask these two SS officers why they allowed these men to be put into SS uniforms? extermination camp would not be distinguished from the other labor camps and the concentration camp itself. It was incomprehensible to me that this was done to the reputation of the SS which had nothing to do with the extermination.
Q You yourself were a higher SS officer, were you not?
Q Well, what I am asking you is this. Why, in those circumstances, you made no inquiry about it, and why you didn't ask these SS officers there, 'What is the meaning of these men being put into SS uniforms'?
THE PRESIDENT: Go on. BY DR. PELCKMANN: you not ask the higher SS leaders whom you met there why these men, these people, were working in SS uniforms? camouflage so that the camp would not be distinguished from the other camps. did not make inquiry of the officers, is that true?
A I cannot remember having asked the officers about it. I did not speak to officers but only to the commandant Hoess and the commandant of the guards -- these guards of the extermination camp.
Q Have you described everything?
THE PRESIDENT: Go on. BY DR. PELCKMANN: secrecy was secured?
A One essential thing is to be mentioned. Certain Jewish people with connections abroad were kept under especially good circumstances and allowed to write letters abroad concerning how well off they were in Auschwitz so that the public got the impression that these we know are alive and well off.
Q Thank you. Now, witness, under normal circumstances what would you have had to do after you had learned of all these things? kommissar Wirt and Kommandant Hoess arrested and charged with murder.
Q Did you do that?
Q Why not?
A The answer is shown by the question. In Germany the war, circumstances were no longer normal in a sense of legal guarantee. In addition, the following must be considered. I was not only a judge, but I was a judge of military penal law. No court martial in the world would judge an Army commander or the head of the State. you realized you should have done?
A. I beg your pardon. I was saying that it was not possible for me as an Obersturmfuehrer to arrest Hitler, who was the instigator of these orders.
Q. When what did you do ?
A. On the basis of this knowledge, I realized that here something had to be done. A stop had to be put to this action. Hitler had to be induced to withdraw his orders. Under the circumstances, this could be done only by Himmler as Minister of the Interior and Minister of the Police, I therefore endeavored and thought at the time to approach Himmler through the heads of the departments and through the effects of this system, make it clear to him, that through these methods the state was being led to destruction. I approached my immediate superior, the head of the Criminal Police, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Nebe; then I turned to the head of the SS, Obergruppenfuehrer Breithaupt. I also approached Kaltenbrunner, Gruppenfuehrer Mueller of the Gestapo, Gruppenfuehrer Pohl of the WVHA, and the SS Reichsarzt, Dr. Grawitz, but aside from this necessity of taking steps, I saw a practical way open to me by way of justice; that is, to have the spies and the important members of this system taken out one after another through the means available to the system itself. I could not do this because of the killings ordered by the head of the state but I could do it for killings outside of this order or against this order or for other serious crimes and for that reason, I had these men prosecuted and this system woul have been broken up but this affair had a long-range effect -- through the big concentration camp trials against Commandant Koch, of whom I spoke, and against the head of the political section at Auschwitz -- Criminal Untersturmfuehrer Grabner whom I charged with murder in two thousand cases outside of this action. The whole killing complex had to be brought to judicial condition. It was to suspected, because of these individual crimes, the perpetrators would refer to higher orders. This occurred; thereupon the SS Corps, on the basis of the material which I supplied, it approached the head of the government and officially asked "Did you order these killingIs the legal murder no longer valid ? What orders are there concerning these killings"? Then the supreme head of the state has to denounce these perpetrators and leaves them open to prosecution for the mass exterminations as well or else an open break would have to occur, by putting the whole judicial system out of force.
On the basis of the trials, in Weimar against Koch and Grabner, this problem became acute and these problem were officially asked of the RSHA, as I had foreseen. For this purpose a judge was sent, who had the assignment to investigate in all sections of the RSHA., to see whether such orders were in existence. As I heard, the result was negative. Thereupon, an attempt was made to take steps against Hoess and another but in the meantime, Auschwitz was occupied -- the judge who had been sent there had to stop his investigations and in January 1945 complete disorganization arose which made further prosecution impossible. If I may go back, the immediate effects of the judicial investigation were that in all concentration camps the killing of prisoners by so called "Euthanasia" stopped immediately, because no doctor could feel sure that he would not be arrested on the next day. The example of the doctor of Buchenwald was potent in the minds of all. I am convinced that through this procedure the lives of thousands of prisoners were saved. The killing system itself was severely shaken; but it is noteworthy that shortly after I first approached Kriminalkommissar Wirt, on my second visit to Lublin, I did not find him there. I learned that in the meantime Wirt had received orders to destroy all his extermination camps. He had gone to Istria in the Dalmatian Peninsula, and was guarding streets there. In May 1944 he was killed. When I heard that Wirt and his command had left Lublin I flew there in order to find out whether he was merely transferring his field of activity but that was not ture.
A. It was clear that the discovery of these horrible crimes was extremely unpleasant to those responsible for them. I knew that a human life meant nothing to these people and that they were ready for anything. As proof, I may cite the following. After I had arrested Grabner, the head of the political section in Auschwitz. THE PRESIDENT: You aren't forgetting that you said you were going to take forty-five minutes with this witness, are you, Dr. Pelckmann?
DR. PELCKMANN: I have not forgotten, your Lorsdhip. I regret greatly that it, has taken longer, but I believe that it is necessary to inform the Court about these matters.
THE PRESIDENT: It seems of very little importance whether this man was in danger of his life or not.
DR. PELCKMANN: From the point of view of the defense, your Lordship, I am of a different opinion, for the circumstances and the possibilities of opposing this system and for (1) the decision of the Court of the 13 the of March; and (2) compulsion and order of decisive importance.
THE PRESIDENT: Go on, Dr. Pelckmann. The Tribunal does not think it is important.
THE WITNESS: May I say one more sentence on that subject? The investigating commission of the Reich Criminal Police office at Auschwitz was quartered in barracks and after it worked with success for sometime, unknown persons at night destroyed the whole barracks with all the documents by fire The investigations were interrupted and made difficult for some time. You may see from that how ruthless was the opposition to us. I, myself, received enough warnings and threats but whether I was actually in danger of my life, I cannot say. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. Did the directing personnel of the camp at Auschwitz give reasons for the assumption that they knew of these exterminations ? If I understood you correctly the concentration camp Auschwitz, with its many labor camps, had nothing to do with and was separate from the extermination camp ?
A. As I have already said, Hoess was simultaneously commandant of Auschwitz and Monowitz, he is to be considered the directing person aside from one fuhrer of the troops in Monowitz. I dealt with these two and these two knew about it.
Q. Did you speak to the doctor of the concentration camp Auschwitz ?
A. Yes. when I arrived, the doctor showed me the mortality figures. He pointed out that from the beginning of his transfer to Auschwitz, these figures had gone down so extensively through extensive precautionary measure He also gave me the leads to Grabner. Grabner had suggested to him to kill pregnant Polish women. The doctor had considered that irreconcilable with his professional ethics. Then Grabner had said that he did not realize the importance of his, Grabner's tasks. The doctor did not give in. A quarrel arose. Neither Hoess nor Grawitz said anything. This doctor at the moment when I met him by accident, was in a conflict and said "What shall I do " ? I said "What you did, absolute refusal, is quite right and tomorrow I will arrest Grabner".
THE PRESIDENT: What does this have to do with the SS unless the doctor was in the SS; perhaps he was.
DR. PELCKMANN: That is about that norm-- that the doctors were SS doctors and the witness is describing how an SS doctor in this concentration camp Auschwitz opposed the suggestion of Grabner. He is describing that is a typical case.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, the Tribunal thinks you have been quite long enough over this witness. You are going into matters too much in detail. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. You said that you had reported to the various agencies. Please describe how Nebe reacted; how did Breithaupt react; what did Kaltenbrunner say; what was Pohl's attitude, and how did the Reich Doctor Grawitz react ?
A. First I reported to my immediate superior, SS Gruppenfuehrer Nebe, as chief. He was a silent man but I could see that his hair stood on end literally when I made my report. He was silent. Then he said "I must immediately report this matter to Kaltenbrunner. The Chief of the Hauptamt SS, Obergurppenfuehrer Briethaupt, also became very much excited. He said that would immediately go to see Himmler and report this to him and attempt to have a personal interview with Himmler arranged for me.
The Reich doctor SS didn't know what to say. Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl took another attitude. Previously, or about the same time, I had had the Kommandant of the Concentration Camp, Herzogenbosch, arrested, who had brought about the death of ten women. When I reported this to Pohl he said this was a "bagatelle" He said, "what does the lives of ten women matter in view of the thousands of German women dying every night from air raids ?" on the evidence in the corruption cases -- the killing which I discovered was about six months later -- I talked to him in the presence of Nebe, Kaltenbrunner, and Mueller. This discussion was one-sided. Kaltenbrunner and Nebe were absolutely silent. Mueller was furious against me. He was raving mad at me, and did not let me speak. When I looked at him, he suddenly jumped up and hushed out of the room and loft me alone, while the other two gentlemen turned away from me. In the afternoon I went to see Mueller again and personally told him my point of view once again, but Mueller was absolutely against it. Very much.
THE PRESIDENT: What was the date of this conversation with Kaltenbrunner?
GEORG KONRAD MORGEN : That was immediately after the charge was raised against Grabner. I assume in July or August in 1944.
A No. I wanted to inform those people and win them over to my point of view, they who really had something to say. Nothing else. In addition, through Basic Order Number 1, concerning secrecy and state affairs, I was bound and could only approach the Chief of the main offices of the SS personnel. Any report to other agencies would have had serious results.
THE PRESIDENT : Doctor Pelckmann, he said he did not report it surely that is sufficient. We don't want to know more about it. He did not report. We are not trying the witness.
DR. PELCKMANN : I believe it is a mistake, if I understand it correctly, your Lordship. He said he did report if THE PRESIDENT : He said he made no other report, as I understood it, except this that he has spoken of.
Q Witness, will you comment on that?
A That is true. .Aside from the Chief of the main office of the SS, no one else was reported. public or to cry "murder" ? press and radio, which I did not have. If I announced that to the world from many street corners, no one would have believed me because this system was beyond human imagination. I would have been locked up as insane. as a pure extermination camp by the prosecution and by the witnesses. Is that true? investigation from May to July 1944, I believe that I know it rather well. I must say that I had the opposite impression. The Concentration Camp Dachau was always considered a very good come a recreation camp among the prisoners, and I actually did ain this impression. and so forth?
must say the hospital was in excellent order. I went through all the wards. There was no overcrowding. The amount of medical instruments was astonishing, which were at the service of the prisoners.
Q That's enough. You want to say that conditions were good? That you are in contradiction to the testimony of the witness, Doctor Blaha, which was made here. Do you know his Testimony? and had another opportunity to look through the record of the trial. I must say that this testimony surprises no greatly, I an of the opinion that Blaha, from his own knowledge, cannot make such statements. A prisoner in a Concentration Camp cannot move about freely and cannot have access.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks he can say disagrees with the evidence of Blaha and not that Blaha was not telling the truth. He disagrees, he said it, camp think you might got on. How much more time do you need?
DR. PELCKMANN : 5 minutes, your Lordship. not agree with the testimony of Blaha?
THE PRESIDENT: He has given has own evidence about the matter, and he says he is in contradiction with Plain. Couldn't want further details about it.
DR. PELCKMANN: Mr. President, if I understand correctly, the witness is to give creditable testimony. If he does not say that on such and such points of the testimony of Blaha, I have such and such objection, the prosecution can say he did not comment on it. That is my endeavor. Please instruct me, your Lordship, if I am mistaken.
THE PRESIDENT : He has given his account on the camp at Dachau, The Tribunal has before it the evidence and testimony of Blaha. The Tribunal can see if the evidence is incorrect. That is sufficient.
DR. PELCKMANN : If the Court does not wish it, I will withdraw the question.
Q Will you briefly sum up? I will be on to the next question which is of importance to your credibility. Did you give this testimony once before as you have given it here?
A Yes. I came to Germany after a long time, I heard the CIC was looking for the about my information about Concentration Camps. I reported to the CIC Chief Headquarters Mannheim, 7th Army, and said I was ready to help clear up these crimes. I gave my testimony as I have attempted to do today. I went to the CIC Headquarters, Inspector Oberursel, and after the conclusion of that testimony, I was put in Dachau, together with the accused I had arrested.
Q. Do you know the writings,"SS Dachau" which I submitted to the Tribunal yesterday, which is Exhibit SS-4? Do you know it? Answer yes or no.
Q On page 46, there is the testimony of a Mrs. M.H. Was this testimony made before you as the investigating Judge?
A Yes, this was a Mrs. Eleanore Hodis from Auschwitz. I questioned her.
Q. And did you examine the article and make certain this was the evidence which the woman gave? Yes or no.
A. Yes.
Q. When was that approximately?
Q The testimony is against Hoess?
A. Yes.