He and the members of the government were always invited to all festivities which did not have a perfectly German character, and were decorated in accordance with their work.
Q What was the manner of work of your office, your authority in Prague? Were you quite independent in your work or were you and your authority bound to directives from Berlin?
A My answer in this respect is a rather tedious and boring one. The fundamentals of policy and the administration of the department, these matters were set down in Berlin applying to the protectorate as well. That means that the policy was laid/down by Hitler himself or by the department ministers. My field was the supervision of the carrying out of instructions and the application of these principles as they applied to the protectorate, always considering the special circumstances that obtained, resulting from the ethical, cultural and economic structure of the country. It can be taken for granted that above all in a war that the protectorate which was situated in the center of the Reich could not be treated as an independent unit but rather that the protectorate had to be incorporated into the general pattern. up by the central office in Berlin. The officials of my branches, therefore, from the beginning, had a certain subjectivety to their home authorities, even though they were subordinate to me and the various managers of the branches received their directives direct from Berlin, directives that applied to various problems and these directivesoriginated with the department or ministry in Berlin. Then these directives were submitted to the Under State Secretary von Burgsdorff, who was the head of the administration, or if they were very fundamental matters they were submitted directly to me, reported to me directly. The carrying out of these measures in the protectorate was in that way discussed and after discussion or conferences with the Czech ministers there was a vote taken. Thereupon and as a result of this, the decrees which were signed by me or by my deputy came about in that way. existed in the Reich or relations dealing with the economy which were newly issued in the Reich, apart from that a series of directives applying to the protectorate were issued directly by the competent Berlin ministries. The Reich Minister of the Interior had been set up as the central agency for the issuing of these decrees and directives.
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, in this connection I should like to refer to the following, to be found in document book 5; documents number 145, a decree emanating from the Fuehrer and Reichschancellor, dealing with the protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, dated the 22nd of March, 1939; number 146, extracts from basic regulations applying to the protectorate dealing with commercial dealings with the protectorate dated 28 March, 1939 and number 147, a directive as to the carrying through of justice in the protectorate, dated 14 April, 1939 -- 146, a directive dealing with law and justice in the protectorate under date of 7 June, 1939 and I again should like to refer to the document which has already been submitted, number 147, a regulation dealing with the development of and administration of German Security Police. did not originate in the Reich protectorate but rather from the competent Reich ministries and in part also emanated from Reichsmarshal Goering as the chairman of the Reich Defense Council and Goering signed these directives and as to the legal basis applying to the protectorate, the decree emanated from the Fuehrer and Reichchancellor dealt with the protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, dated 16 March, 1939, signed by Hitler.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you ask the defendant to clear up what his concern was with these decrees of the Reichsfuehrer and of the defendant Goering.
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: No, Mr. President, I wanted to show that he had nothing to do with these matters but, however, that he was charged with the carrying through of these measures in itself and by itself after these matters were decreed. He had the obligation and the duty to see to it that these measures which were given out by agencies in the Reich and that was the thing I wanted to prove, that all these directives did not originate with him himself but rather with others.
THE WITNESS: I should like to add that I was chiefly concerned with the fact that these matters were published in the protectorate and then that my organs and agencies supervised the carrying through of these measures. BY DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: measures?
A The extent of autonomy was not clearly limited. Basically the protectorate was autonomous and it was administered by Czech authorities and Czech officials. But in the course of time essential restrictions were placed on this state of autonomy. They were set down in the decree which you have just read. The introduction of these restrictions could be traced back to the Reich Government and resulted, in part, from general tendencies toward centralization in Berlin and to a large extent was brought about through the general political development and was necessary because of the war and of the so-called total carrying on of the war. These restrictions were necessary, I constantly and always objected to these restrictions if in my opinion they could not be brought into accord with needs and requirements of the people.
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, in this connection I should like to refer to article 3 of the decree, given out by the Fuehrer and Reichschancellor, dealing with the protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, number 144 of my document book number 5. This reads:
"The protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia is autonomous and administer itself. The rights of sovereignty which accrue to it on the basis of its state of autonomy are carried out on the basis of military and economic affairs. The rights of sovereignty are upheld to their own organs and to their own authorities and officials." BY DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN:
Q How about the Wehrmacht officers in the protectorate? Were you concerned with them, connected with them? who kept me advised about the basic military questions *---* who was to advise me as to these military matters. USSR 60, sets down in detail and of which you are accused. in the protectorate? Could you treat with death sentences?
A The justice of the German courts was under my jurisdiction. The Czech courts were not under my jurisdiction. These courts were under the jurisdiction of the Justice Minister in Berlin. Decisions about pardons concerning the German courts, those were matters which concerned me and requests for pardons which were submitted to me, these, in special cases, of course, might apply to Czechs.
However, these matters did not concern themselves with political misdemeanors; political proceedings against Czechs were, as far as I recall, handled by the peoples' courts (Volksgericht) in Berlin. Insofar as we were concerned with high treason and as far as I know, in the proceedings against Czechs the same basic principles were applied as against Germans.
Q Did you have the right to pardon when the People's Court gave decisions against Czechs? have the right to pardon. courts in the Protectorate? there were special courts which were active. In my opinion, this might apply only to courts for proceedings against certain misdemeanors and courts which were established in the beginning of the war in the Reich. However, these courts were not under my jurisdiction. Instead, they were subordinated to the Reich Minister of Justice. He appointed the judges, gave them their directions and directives, and the judges reported back to him direct. I had no opportunity of using influence in any way. like to quote one sentence from the Czech report, USSR 60. This may be found on page 106 of the German text and page 92 of the English text. It deals with regulations that were to be applied and used by these special courts. I quote:
"A large number of these regulations and decrees deal with principles that all civilized countries consider irrevocable." but I should like to say in this case that in the latest developments, this principle has been decreased among civilized peoples. The teeth have been taken out of it. with the Germanization of the areas in the Protectorate inhabited by Czechs. You said previously that you, when you assumed office, did not know about such plans. Who later revealed the pattern of these plans to you? cles, but in the great part they were to be traced back to the organizations of Himmler and beyond that to the suggestions on the part of the Gauleiter of the Lower Danube.
leged Germanization, I should like to quote a report by General Fredericki to the OKW , dated 15 October 194. I should like to confront you with that. This is the document which has been submitted by the Prosecution under PS-862, US Exhibit No. 313, and it is concerned with the statements about the principles of the policy pursued in the Protectorate which State Secretary Frank made in a discussion with your office. Aside from that, Frank said that the Reich Protector defined his attitudes toward various plans. He mentioned three possibilities of solution of the possible Germanization of the Czech areas. You probably know this piece of writing and I do not believe that it is necessary for me to read it. What do you know about this memorandum? Did you write it? Tell us what you have to say about it. mentioned on the part of various Party offices for the resettlement of the Czechs. I considered this plan quite insane and incapable of execution, and I held this view from the beginning. Frank, who agreed with me in this one point, therefore drew up at my suggestion and direction this memorandum which you have just mentioned, a memorandum in which the radical measures of the SS and of the Party were turned down and in which the so-called gradual assimilation was considered as the only possible solution of this problem. and I wanted to hamper the plans of the SS. Since this plan of resettlement had been reported by Himmler to the Fuehrer and this had already been done, I had to have a rather stringent directive from him in order to do away with it. suggestion. Therefore, the proposal of the policy of assimilation, for with this suggestion the matter really had been postponed, had been shelved. In order to eliminate the counter measures of the SS and of Himmler, I reported to the Fuehrer personally, and I asked that he issue a stringent directive, which he did. Therefore this matter had been buried, and it was not taken up again.
Germanization would have to be carried out for a number of years by the office of the Reich Protector means that the SS could no longer interfere in this matter. The Reich Protector alone was to be the competent authority, and the Reich Protector did nothing, and to this same effect, the same sentence applies and shows that I was not favorably inclined to radicalism -- a statement made by General Fredericki that for the Wehrmacht no special consequences would result since they had always toed the line. were working contrary to the intended Germanization and that these elements would have to be handled roughly and have to be eliminated, those, of course, were the words that he used and the type of language that he used in matters of that kind, but nothing was done to further assimilate the people.
DR. VON LEUDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I am now asking your permission to quote the affidavit that we have mentioned which was made by Baronness Ritter, Number 3 in my document book. I ask permission to quote a few sentences from this affidavit. They are found on page 18 of the document book. It says there:
"To the plans for the Germanization and in regard to the gradual assimilation of the Czechs, Neurath stated as follows in a letter:
"'Quite aside from the sensible point of view, the people who are about to be resett led--'" THE PRESIDENT:
Page 18?
DR. VON LEUDINGHAUSEN: Page 18, yes. It is the second paragraph from the end.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I have it.
DR. VON LEUDINGHAUSEN: "'Quite aside from the sensible point of view, the people who are to be resettled arouse pity in one's soul. However, I believe I have discovered a way now to prevent disaster. Time won is everything won, and frequently postponing is giving up.'" Mr. President, if it is permissible for me to make a suggestion, I would suggest that we stop now, since the pattern of Germanization is now completed.
THE PRESIDENT: How long do you think you are going to be? You have already been a day and a half.
DR. VON LEUDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, the accusations are not quite concrete. They are rather intangible, and these accusations as they are mentioned have to be picked up by me point by point. I have approximately 20 more questions.
THE PRESIDENT: How long do you think it will take?
DR. VON LEUDINGHAUSEN: I assume perhaps an hour.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the Tribunal will expect you to conclude in an hour.
DR. VON LEUDINGHAUSEN: I hope so, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn now.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 1000 hours, 25 June 1946.)
Official Transcript of the International Military 25 June M LJG 1-1
DR. NELTE (Counsel for defendant Keitel): Mr. President, I should like to advise the High Tribunal that the manuscript of my pledoyer (final argument) will be ready tomorrow, that is, the first half; the second half will be ready by Saturday. That will be ready in typewritten form. I am sorry to say that I can furnish only eight copies, six of which are earmarked for the interpreters to facilitate their difficult task. I am very sorry that I am not able to furnish more than eight copies, since I personally have no multigraph machine. the statement made by the Chief Prosecutor for the United States on Friday, if I do not request the help of the prosecution and their facilities. it would be valuable, in order to facilitate my presentation, to have a translation of my speech put before them, in which case I would request that the High Tribunal make the necessary arrangements. I am quite ready to place my manuscript at the disposal of the High Tribunal, under the conditions published by you, Mr. President, as far as I personally am concerned. I am advised that the same would apply to the majority of the defense counsel. in order to reduce the time spent on the presentation of our final argument, it seems important to me to have this point clarified and decided on by the High Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Nelte, if you would hand in the manuscript to which you have referred, the Tribunal will make arrangements to have it translated into the various languages. I think that will meet the position so far as you are concerned.
DR. NELTE: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has an announcement upon the 25 June M LJG 1-2 subject, which I am about to read.
The announcement is this: June, 1946, on the question of time to be token by defense counsel, the Tribunal has given the matter further consideration. the Tribunal observed that some of the defendants required more time than others, and to this extent they did make an apportionment among themselves. The Tribunal feels that the suggested times are much too long and some voluntary restriction should be made. very wide scope, the Tribunal is of the opinion that one-half a day to each defendant is ample time for the presentation of his defense, and the Tribunal hopes that counsel will condense their arguments and limit themselves voluntarily to this time. The Tribunal, however, will not permit counsel for any defendant to deal with irrelevant matters or to speak for more than one day in any case. Four hours will be allowed at the beginning for argument on the general questions of law and fact, and counsel should cooperate in their arguments in such a way as to avoid needless repetition.
I am told that one part of the announcement that I was making came through in an incorrect shape on some of the translations; so I will read it again.
"Except as to a few of the defendants whose cases are of very wide scope, the Tribunal is of the opinion that one-half a day to each defendant is ample time for the presentation of his defense; and the Tribunal hopes that counsel will condense their arguments and limit themselves voluntarily to this time. The Tribunal, however, will not permit counsel for any defendant to deal with irrelevant matters or to speak more than one day in any case. Four hours will be allowed at the beingning for argument on the general questions of law and fact, and counsel should cooperate in their arguments in such a way as to avoid needless repetition." translation of each argument in French, Russian and English submitted at the beginning of the argument. Counsel may arrange for the translation themselves if they so desire, but if they will submit copies of their arguments to the Translating Department, as soon as possible, and not less than three days in advance of delivery, the translation will be made for them, and the contents of the copies will not be disclosed.
Yes, Dr. Luedinghausen. BY DR. VON LEUDINGHAUSEN:
Q. Last night we had stopped in our treatment concerning ourselves with the various points raised by the prosecution. I should like to continue now and to put the various questions to you, Mr. von Neurath. you of the fact, that the Germans in the protectorate had a preferential position as compared with the Czechs in the protectorate, and that you were responsible for according them such preferential treatment.
Will you please comment on this?
A. The position of Germans in the protectorate was not a position of preference connected in any way with any real advantages as compared with the Czechs, but rather it was an entirely different position. The Germans were citizens of the Reich, and therefore, had the rights of the Reich citizens, such as the right to vote in Reichstag elections. thing which is quite understandable in view of the existing difference between the German people and the Czech people. Efforts to receive preferential treatment, of course, did take place in chauvenistic and nationalist circles. and intensely, and I prevented any practical realization of such efforts. In this connection, however, I should like to repeat once more that I did not consider the Czech people inferior to the German people in any manner or in any way at all. We were concerned with a different kind of people which politically and culturally had to be treated according to its own characteristics. nomy, which meant nothing more than the separation of the two nationalities with a view toward their own life, or a separate life, for the Czechs, and the fact that this autonomy had to be kept within certain limits, and especially in time of war. That is something which is quite true.
Q. Not, I should like to deal with the various points as raised by the Czech indictment, or rather the points found in the Czech report, which is the basis for this prosecution and indictment. In this report it is asserted that the freedom of the press was suppressed by your authority. Is that correct? And if this case does apply, what role did Mr. von Gregory play in the treatment of the press?
A. Mr. von G regory was the press attache at the German Embassy in Prague. He was subordinate to the Propaganda Ministry. Then he became chief of my press department, and was under my authority.
He limited the Czech press according to the direc-
tives given out by the Propaganda Ministry in Berlin. The Czech press, of course, was not free. It was not free any more than the German press was free. Circulation, methods of control, and other measures, especially measures applying to censorship, were the same for the German and the Czech press.
Q. The Czech indictment report further accuses you with the fact that the local Czech administrative authorities were in many cases dissolved, and then in part these offices were replaced by Germans or Czech collaborators. Is that correct?
A. The fact that in the localitieis such as Moravia there was a German minority and that they were represented on the county basis to me seems to be a matter of course. Prague, for instance, had a Czech mayor and a German assistant mayor, and that does not seem to be to be objectionable in any way. As far as activity of some of the Germans in the various localities is concerned, and being active in the local administration to the point whore the participation assumed such proportions as did not seem justified, by the number of Germans living there, I tried to use my influence, and fught this problem. Bohemia, in general there were no German representatives active at all. But on the other hand, there were large areas such as the region of Iglau where the Germans, because of their number, and therefore of course, influence as well, were dominant.
Q. The Czech Prosecution report accuses you with the fact that in this way and through the appointing of the Oberlandraete you had germanized the Czech population, and this report bases its accusations on an alleged statement which you supposedly made to the former Czech President, Mr. Bienert, in which you said that has to be digested over a period of two years.
A. I do not recall ever having made a statement like that, and I cannot quite see that I would have made any statement like that. In this point we are concerned with the coordination of the Czechs with the German administration. The Oberlandraete were not appointed by me, but they were used as a controlling level set up by the Reich Government, and they were instituted by virtue of the decree of the 1st of September 1939, in line with the s etting up of German administration and the security police.
appeared before me to give their reports, I told them again and agin, and tried to inculcate them with the idea, that they were not to administer personally, but they were there for controlling purposes and supervisory purposes. to the German method, I told them.
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: In this case I should like to refer to a document, No. 149 of my document book, a regulation which concerns itself with the building up of German administration and the Security Police under the date of the 1st of September 1939. I should like to point out especially Paragraphs 5 and 6, which deal with the appointment and the duties of the Oberlandraete. I do not believe that I need to quote from this document.
By Dr.von Luedinghausen:
Q. The Czech prosecution report further contains a statement deposed by Mr. A. It is quite possible that I told Bienert something to this effect; However, today I can't remember it but it can be taken for granted that in the sphere be made.
There had to be restriction of autonomy in local administration and they have to be considered along this line and in this light.
I always tried interests of the country if self.
That is something which you cannot throw up to Q: In this connection, I should like to refer to the matters contained in my document book under No.144, document No.5. The decree issued by the Fuehrer and Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, dated the 16 th of March 1939.
In this do own.
The Czech prosecution further refers to a statement made by the former
A. The Czech Legion during the time of the first World War had been founded in Russia. It was composed partially of volunteers and partially from the balance of the Czech regiments which had belonged to the old AustrioHungarian Army and which had been made prisoners of war in Russia. These Czech Legionnaires enjoyed, after the founding of the Czech Republic, a certain special and favored position. In part, they were imbued with chauvinistic resentment toward the Reich which dated back to the time of the national fighting era and in this way, the so-called Legionnaire mentality in Bohemia was a slogan and in times of political unrest could work itself out to be a danger to policy. This favored position which the Legionnaires enjoyed were fought against extensively in the Protectorate and by that, I mean this favorite position was fought against by the Czechs themselves; therefore, particularly, Frank tried to remove the Legionnaires from public office -- only in the most glaring cases, however, did this take place and it took place only in so far as these Legionnaires had become volunteer members of the Czech Legion; that is it did not apply to those of the former Austrio-Hungarian Army. From the beginning, I tried to keep this difference and it still applies, and the distinction which was made in Germany between the voluntary SS and the Waffen SS today.
Q. The Czech prosecution is further accusing you of the fact of the support of theCzech Fascist organization Vlayka. The Czech prosecution in this case is referring to a memorandum and is basing the accusation on a memorandum which you yourself made, dealing with a discussion which you had with President Hacha of Czechoslovakia on the 26th of March 1940. According to this memorand you told Hacha that the personal and moral qualities of the Vlayka leaders were well known to you but in any event, you had found and would have to say that this movement and this organization was the only one which had taken a positiv stand toward the Reich and for collaboration with the Reich. Will you comment on this?
A. The Vlayka movement was the same up the collaborationists in France. This movement worked to bring about a German-Czech collaboration, and working together, and they made their efforts and tried to bring this about long befor the Protectorate was actually established.
The leaders of this movement, in my opinion, were rather dubious characters and personages, something which I showed in the words I used to Hacha. These leaders threatened and reproache President Hacha and members of the Czech Government as well. State Secretary Frank had known these men from previous days and wanted to support these people in consideration of cooperation with him; however, I fought and rejected this as well as I declined and refused to receive those people when the applied to be received by me. On the other hand, it is possible that Frank supported them from a special fund which Hitler placed at his disposal quite without my knowledge and obligated I rank not to tell me anything about it.
Q. What attitude did you take to the dissolution of the parties, political parties and of the trade unions?
A. As well as the controls exercised over the press, those were matters of necessity which resulted from the system, resulted from the political system of the Reich. In any event, through this step taken by President Hacha and dispite the measures taken by Germany, no country suffered so much from the sufferings and misery of war as the Protectorate. The Czech people were the only ones in the Middle and East Europe which could retain its national and cultural unity almost in toto.
alleges so-called cultural suppression. What can you tell us about the handling of Czech education? I have already mentioned, were closed at Hitler's direct order in November, 1939 Again and again, at the request of President Hacha and of the Czech government, I tried to intervene with Hitler direct to have these schools reopened. However, because of the dominating position occupied by Mr. Himmler, I was unsuccessful. The consequence of the closing of the universities, of course, was that a large number of young people who would otherwise have engaged in studies new had to look for employment. The closing of the universities and institutions of higher learning also brought about repercussions on intermediate schooling. After the separation of the Sudetenland in the autumn of 1938, there had been special problems for the entire Czech intelligentsia from this region who had returned to the Protectorate, or what was later to become the Protectorate. For the young people from the intermediate schools there was hardly any work or anything to occupy their time. It was about the same situation which is now appearing in Germany. Concerning the closing of German public schools and other planned efforts by the Czech youth to have their education restricted and limited, I know nothing of anything like that. institutions of higher learning as ordered by Hitler?
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. von Luedinghausen, he said that he tried to intervene and get rid of Hitler's order.
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: If that is sufficient to the High Tribunal, then perhaps the Defendant need not answer my question.
THE PRESIDENT: Don't you think that is sufficient?
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: Yes, Mr. President, I just wanted to intensify the problem a little bit more. However, if the High Tribunal is sufficiently satisfied with that, in order to delineate his -
THE PRESIDENT: Do you think it would be any better if it was said twice?
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: I just meant it as a supplement, Mr. President but I am quite satisfied.
BY DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN: Czech report, to turn the people into a mass of workers and to rob them of their spiritual elite?
A No. Only a crazy person could have made a statement like that.
Q The Czech's indicating report asserts that through your agencies, that is under your approval and endorsement, there was plundering of Czech scientific institutions. On Page 58 of the German text, Page 55 of the English text of this report, USSR 60, he says: "The Germans occupied all universities and scientific institutions. They immediately acquired all valuable apparatus and scientific installations in the institutions which were occupied. Scientific libraries were plundered systematically and methodically; scientific books and films, were torn up or transported off; the archives of the academic Senate of the highest university authorities were tern up or burned; the card files were destroyed, and scattered to the four winds." What can you tell us in this connection? and destruction. I never heard of any plundering like that either in Prague or anywhere else. The Czech's universities and institutions of higher learning were closed in the year 1939 on an order from Hitler. The buildings and installations of the crave Czech University, as far as I know, were in part put at the disposal of German universities which were closed by the Czechs, since after the Czech universities were closed they could not be used any longer for Czech scientific purpose.
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't understand that answer. As I pot it, "The buildings, in part, were put at the disposal of German universities which had been closed by the Czechs."
THE WITNESS : In Prague there was the oldest German university. It had been closed by the Czechs after the First World War, and after the establishing of the Protectorate it had been reopened and, so far as I know, see of the equipment and buildings were used by this German university.