receive any other complaints directly, but I have directed that any complaints which would be received by my office should be immediately forwarded to the competent Reich authorities for investigation and punishment. I would like to be permitted to state here that my office received many complaints for which I was competent, but those were complaints about insufficient numbers of workers which I brought. That was within my competence to take care of such complaints. For matters of administration, for unjust matters in various fields, I was not competent. The various Reich officers were competent for that. there. Wasn't anything reported to you? the fact that I was concerned about these things although they were not within my competence. been surrounded. Do you remember that case? that he had been informed that, in the area of his Army group, a movie theater had been surrounded and the people who attended that movie had been brought to Germany to work there. That case which was presented by Field Marshal Kluge was available, who can testify to that. The result of the investigation was the following: That there was not labor recruitment for Germany but a building industry group near Rovno who had a celebration on the occasion of finishing their work in that movie, and right in the middle of that celebration they received the order that that same work group had to be used at a different locality; and the manager interrupted that celebration in a very drastic way by carrying out, with the police group, the transportation of these workers right from the movie. So that, of course had nothing to do with my officers and my organization, but it took about a quarter of a year for me to find out the true facts and report them to Fieldmarshal Kluge. In every case I have investigated such complaints.
Q This brings us to the transportation. We are leaving the chapter of recruitment now and I speak about transportation. Who was responsible for the transportation?
roads, and the officers mentioned in my Directive No. 4, local officers' department of the territories. Right from the outset, when I assumed my office, I had conferences with Dr. Dormueller, Reich Minister of Transportation, his State Secretary, Dr. Ganzemueller, and Kleinmueller, and I agreed with them then that the workers' transportation through Germany should be carried out in the best possible way; that if they should recruit Russians on these transports that under no circumstances the cars should be crowded, and that if at all possible coaches should be used for these transports.
That was agreed to by the Reich Minister of Transportation and he said that I could not ask for better transportation for the German soldiers; but he guaranteed that the cars would not be crowded.
Q. You have seen the Molotov report. That is Document USSR 51. You know its contents. There mention is made of the condition of these transports, that the cars were over-crowded, that dying people were thrown out, that children were born dying almost immediately. Was anthing reported to you about these conditions; did you have any knowledge of them?
A. Such incidents were not reported to me in my office and it could not possibly have been labor transports of my office.
Q. What kind of transports could they have been?
A. As far as I can see here, in the course of the proceedings, it could have been transports of inmates of concentration camps for reasons of evacuation or such. I don't know it but I can't explain it any differently, because under no circumstances did I tolerate any such conditions or find out about them That wouldn't have done any good to us.
THE PRESIDENT: Where is that document, USSR 51?
DR. SERVATIUS: USSR 51 has been submitted; that is the official report. I have here a printed German copy. I assume that it has been submitted to the Tribunal. If not, I shall submit it and I shall get it.
THE PRESIDENT: If it has got the number USSR 51, it must have been submitted to the Tribunal. That is the exhibit number. I wonder whether it has got some other number which we can identify it by.
DR. SERVATIUS: Then the prosecution has submitted document 054-PS; that is USA Exhibit 198. That is in theEnglish Slave Labor Book No. 13. BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q. There, on Page 4, mention is made of transports where it begins "Very depressing for the morale of the skilled workers and the population is the -
A. This can only deal with happenings -
THE PRESIDENT: We haven't had the question yet, have we? The question didn't come through I think.
DR. SERVATIUS: I will put the question again.
Q. In this document mention is made of transports back from Germany to the East and the transports are criticized; catasthropic conditions are described. I quote from the document: "Very depressing for the morale of the skilled workers and the population is the effect of those persons shipped back from Germany for having become disabled or not having been fit for labor commitment from the very beginning. Several times already transports of skilled workers on their way to Germany have crossed returning transports of such disabled persons and have stood on the tracks alongside of each other for a longer period of time. These returning transports are insufficiently cared for. Nothing but sick, injured or weak people, mostly 50-60 to a car, are usually escorted by 3-4 men. There is neither sufficient care or food. The returnees made frequently unfavorable -- but surely exaggerated -- statements relative to their treatment in German and on the way. As a result of all this and of what the people could see with their own eyes, a psychosis of fear was evoked among the specialist workers respecting the whole transport to Germany. Several transport leaders -- of the 62nd and the 63rd in particular -- reported there to in detail. In one case the leader of the transport of skilled workers observed with his own eyes how a person who died of hunger was unloaded from a returning transport on the side track. (1st Lt. Hofmann of the 63rd transport, Station Darniza.) Another time it was reported that three dead had to be -- "
THE PRESIDENT: I don't think you need read all of this to the Defendant. He probably knows it and he can give his answer upon it. BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q. You can see here a report is mentioned and I would like you to state your position here.
A. Concerning that report, my position is the following: These terrible conditions had to be investigated by the local authorities there at once. The report about the result of the investigation has not reached me and this report has not reached me either. I myself may be permitted to point put that the transports of sick people, people incapable of working, had been prohibited by me, the transport of those people to Germany, because that was a crime and, economically speaking, an impossibility.
Whoever took care of these transports I could not possibly say. It has not been quite explained what kind of transports these were. The report deals with a description of conditions which had already existed before I came into office. I, personally -- and I should like to emphasize this particularly -- have issued degrees according to which sick people or pregnant women -- I personally have issued degrees that in the case of a transport back of sick people, the German Red Cross should furnish personnel to accompany them back to their native town. This decree can be found in the collection of degrees. Such a terrible case of neglect and crime is, therefore, in open contradiction to the clear degrees and regulations which have been issued by the German authorities.
Q. Didn't you install Bad Frankenthal for sick people who could not return?
A. In my own Gau it was not Bad Frankenthal but Bad Frankenhauser. Bad Frankenhauser was put aside by me for sick Soviet workers, and in addition to that, in Edendorf near Weimar, I had a large school put aside with a hundred beds for typhoid patients among the Russian prisoners of war. Therefore, on my own initiative, I did everything which was possible in order to help against diseases. It was prohibited to transport people while they were sick.
THE PRESIDENT: We had better adjourn now.
(A recess was taken) BY DR. SERVATIUS:A (Interposing) Doctor, May I comment on Document 954-PS and supplement my testimony?
call your attention to the reporter. These extraordinary cases of transport which took place in the first few months, to our knowledge, did not repeat themselves in the summer. In the first months of the year 1942, I believe, I was not even in office, and my program did not commence until May. In the summer of that year, as it is pictured correctly here, these conditions had been stopped. I believe on page 10, you will find a copy of the letter of complaint. It says there, "As I have told you in my letter of 20 Apr. 42". You can see from this letter of complaint that the complaint concerned took place before I assumed office.
Q I was asking you about the arrival of workers in Germany. What happened when a transport arrived in Germany? to be put in the records, and the members had to be examined by position. The transport had to be checked in every way. This examination already took place at the time of recruitment at the place of recruitment. put to work, these recruiters were subjected to three medical examinations, according to my directives.
Q And what were the transition camps -- Durchgangslager? at the boundary where they were checked, examined and registered in the proper manner.
Q I should like to submit Document UK 39 to you. The exhibit number is not at my disposal.
THE PRESIDENT: It is a British exhibit?
DR. SERVATIUS: I could not determine whether there has been an exhibit number assigned to this document. I should like to check on this. But this document was submitted to me.
THE PRESIDENT: You gave the number UK 39.
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes, UK 39, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: It must be a British exhibit number, must it not?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: The series is not a British exhibit; our exhibits are "GB". It is an earlier series of documents that we have prepared. But we will try to find out.
BY DR. SERVATIUS: dated the 18th January 1943. It concerns itself with concentration camps Herzogenbusch. "Then this camp will be equipped as a transit camp." Was that a place where your workers were sent? It was not a transit camp for workers but was a transit camp for inmates of concentration camps. I did not know about this. I never had to concern myself with these transit camps and would not have dealt with them. UK-78 and French document, FR-274. The heading is, "Third Study." It is a comprehensive report and I shall quote according to my notes. Approximately the following was said:
"Immediately upon their arrival the workers were taken to those more or less slave markets to be sorted out. Conditions of life were deplorable there."
Was that a transit camp under your jurisdiction? scribed in such a way. in practice? I should like to refer once more to the Molotov report, USSR-51. The Soviet Delegation have told me that this document was submitted under this document exhibit number. In this report it says that the workers were taken to the slave market and were sold for ten to twenty marks. Comment on this, please. either industrial or agricultural, can be a witness to the fact that any such proceeding never took place, that through the authorities of the Reich Ministry it would bot have been conceivable to institute such slave marts, but that these workers who were put at the disposal of the State had the same conditions of work and the same contract as the German workers themselves. Of course, there were some alight changes in some cases, but in no case were they treated as slaves without pay, without contract, without sickness insurance, without accident insurance. They were never put to work that way, and that may be seen from my directives and the directives issued by the Labor Minister.
And this can be proved through these directives and decrees which were issued. workers in Germany? Germany, as far as the workers were recruited through the authorities, the conditions were exactly the same as those that applied to German workers when they were in these camps. Conditions of life, of course, were dictated, of course, by the war, and during the war the same limitations applied to these people as the limitations that applied to the German population in war. And the adjutant of Baldur, von Schirach at Vienna, a man unknown to me, cited conditions, and these conditions applied in other German cities.
Q Well, how about protective measures in these camps? mine. The camps were subordinate to the industries which they worked for. These are directives which were issued in Baden regarding the treatment of Poles in Germany. This is USA Exhibit 205, to be found in the book, "Slave Labor". Document No. 4/ I should like to read the beginning of this document, something which you have seen already, and it says there:
"The agencies of the Reich Food Administration (Reichsnaehrstand), State Peasant Association of Baden, have received the result of the negotiations with the Higher SS and Police officer in Stuttgart on 14 February 1941, with great satisfaction. Appropriate memoranda have already been turned over to the District Peasants Associations. Below I promulgate the individual regulations, as they have been laid down during the conference and how they are now to be applied accordingly:
"1. Fundamentally, farm workers of Polish nationality no longer have the right to complain and thus no complaints may be accepted any more by any official agency.
" 2. Farm workers of Polish nationality may not leave the localities in which they are employed." vital parts. I turn to Point 5:
"Visits to theatres, motion pictures or other cultural entertainment are strictly prohibited for farm workers of Polish nationality."
And under No. 12there is a vital provision which says that workers of Polish nationality may be physically punished. with this document and the views expressed there. of March, 1941, that is, it is more than a year before I assumed office. Such a nonsensical and impossible decree was never made known to me during my term of office. should like to refer to the decrees which I issued independently of the past, the fact that prior decrees were superseded and no longer valid. Regardless of such nonsensical decrees and directives, no matter which agency in the Reich issued them, my decrees were published in this manuals. Because of the time factor and because of my respect for the Tribunal, I shall not ask that the Tribunal look at all of them, but I should ask thatI be permitted to quote just one sentence from the manifest which has already been referred to, in order to refute the nonsense. The manifest says that just and fair treatment be accorded to these workers and that the directives and their supplements be issued at least every three months to the people in charge of enterprises. The people in charge were reminded of these decrees and that adherence to these decrees and directives was to be kept in mind all the time.
Q Does the manifest close therewith? humane treatment of these workers, that they were to have food and free time and so forth.
Q You issued many, many decrees and directives. Was there any resistance towards your basic directives, and if so, what did you do thereupon? emphasized my decrees and referred to them, for these decrees had been approved by the Fuehrer and were to apply to my sphere of influence.
Q As far as care and welfare were concerned, did the DAF play a part?
And what was the task of the Deutsche Arbeits Front? after their interest, as such; as a matter of course, it had to concern itself with the welfare of foreign workers as well. That was its natural task, to work along the lines of and to be a corrective measure when it came to administrative positions, a function carried out in other countries by unions.
Q What task did the entrepreneurs have? concerned, of regulating the total production, and of course, they were responsible for their workers and the foreign workers which had been assigned to them. Front responsible?
Q Now, the workers mostly were housed in camps. Who guided the installations of these camps? analysis, was under the Deutsche Gewerbeaufsicht (German Trade Supervision), and that was under the German Labor Ministry. Gewerbeaufsicht had to survey the measures of compulsion used by entrepreneurs and people who did not comply with the regulations and used compulsion.
Q Did you yourself take measures to dispose of conditions in the camps? the German Labor Ministry, which was the competent authority.
Q What were the living conditions within the camps? Who was responsible there? This person, in agreement with the D.A.F. and the works manager, was put in service, and to my knowledge -- this was not my sphere of influence -- this man had to be confirmed and certified to by the Security Division.
Q You are talking about the Sicherheitsbehoerde. That is, the security authorities. To what extent was the police active in the surveillance of these camps and the keeping of discipline ? Commandant, and it did not have any connection with the police. In my opinion, as is true in every State, the police had surveillance and control rights, and the nature of the industry was to be kept secret. Beyond that, the police had no function.
Q Were these camps shut off from the outside world? How were things like that when you assumed office? off form the world, and they were surrounded with barbed wire. To me, this idea was incompatible with producing work, and I worked with much energy against this shutting off, and I brought this about, so that there was no barbed wire used, and other measures which were to limit the Eastern workers I tried to do away with, so that the picture which was presented yesterday actually was realized. I wanted a willingness to work and I considered that anything other than what I wanted would be incompatible with the work problem.
these foreign workers? applied to the feeding of the German people, and the people who had to work hardest received additional food.
Q Did this actually apply and obtain when you assumed office? in addition to the foreign workers who were already in the Reich, I was to bring in another quota of foreign workers, the first step which I took was to visit the Reich Nutrition Minister, for to me it was a matter of course that bringing in of foreign workrs would, first of all, entail a feeding problem, and that this was the first problem, for poorly fed workers, even if they want to, cannot turn out satisfactory work. In many, many conversations, and referring to the Reichsmarshal and the Fuehrer, I brought about the feeding schedule that was put down in laws. It was not easy to do this, for feeding in Germany was always a difficult problem, but without these laws it would not have been possible for me to carry through my task. tell us about terrible abuses. Did not anything like that come to your attention, or did you not yourself have any knowledge of this? the work camps are concerned, I never had any catastrophic reports about anything like that as far as civilian workers were concerned. I again tried to have this matter controlled constantly and checked constantly. The works managers themselves were very serious about the matter of provisions. and rather criticize conditions which obtained? appointed Plenipotentiaries for Labor in their Gaus, I called their attention to the food problem and obligated them to give complete attention to the matter of food and billetting. I had work from two gaus that my directives had notbeen taken seriously enough. In one case I immediately travelled to Essen personally and remedied the situation there. One was the matter of the barbed wire.
In the other case in Bavarian Ostmark I also intervened personally. of the gaus and German provinces and states and again stressed the importance of their adhering to these decrees.
DR. SERVATIUS: I am referring to Document 19, which is found in English Book I, page 54, Document Sauckel 19.
THE PRESIDENT: 19?
DR. SERVATIUS: In my document book, Number 19 in the first document book, page 54. Only a portion of this is in print. This is a copy of a decree and letter to the Gauleiter Offices and Gauleiters. It says the following:
"If in a Gau district the statement was recently made: Should any one in the Gau have to freeze next winter, the first ones to freeze should be the Russians (that is the Russian civilian laborers mobilized for work in the Gau), such an utterance shows plainly that in that region of the Gau the contact between the administrative office of labor mobilization and the competent political offices is as yet not close enough; for it is one of the most important tasks in the mobilization of labor and in the collaboration between you and the Gauleiters as my deputies for the mobilization of labor, to see to it that the foreign labor recruited for work in the German armament industry and food economy be looked after in such manner as to enable them to give the maximum in efficiency. It would therefore be entirely wrong to think of protection against want only for German fellow countrymen, and to be satisfied unhesitatingly with inadequate provisions for laborers of foreign origin. On the contrary, the need is to be aware constantly of the fact that in order to bring about victory, a maximum of efficiency must be demanded not only of the German fellow countrymen but also of the foreign workers, and that it would be absurd first to go to the expense which is considerable for German economy of hauling foreign labor into the country, to arrange for work and then to fall in their proper care, with a resultant decline in their efficiency or possibly even their ruin." BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q How about the clothing of foreign workers?
relatively little trouble, for these workers had comparatively good clothing, but the clothing of the Eastern workers was a problem. On behalf of the Eastern workers, I applied for a quota of clothing for them, applying to two and a half million workers, that they receive a complete change of under and outer clothing. For that, 10,000 workers were required to supply this quota of clothing, as well as 30,000 tons of raw materials. Therefore, all possible concern was taken for the clothing, and this clothing actually was issued.
DR. SERVATIUS: The French Delegation submitted the document RF No.5. This is a recruiting statement "Foreigners work in Germany." I submitted this, and the High Tribunal again took official notice of this document. I should like to submit it again and refer to three pictures contained therein. The essential thing about these pictures is that the workers coming from the East, many of them, arrived barefoot, and later we see pictures where these female workers are seen well dressed, working in Germany , where it can be seen that their clothing problems had been alleviated.
THE PRESIDENT: Is this Sauckel 5?
DR. SERVATIUS: It is the French Delegation, your Honor, RF No 5. BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q How about the time of work? Who regulated the working hours? Fuehrer Decrees, and later on, by Reich Minister Dr. Goebbels. The carrying through of these decrees was my sphere.
Q What was the average time of work? working time. There was the legal working time of eighrt hours. Anything beyond eight hours had to be considered as overtime and paid a s such. down for 54 hours. Then, when Reich Minister Dr. Goebbels became Reich Plenipotentiary for the entire war effort, against my objections and against the objec tions of other offices but on the basis of the authority which he had, he proclaimed a 10-hour work day for all businesses. He demanded the 10-hour day and proclaimed it. However, this could not be carried through, for in many industries and offices work had to be regulated according to the difficulties which appeared at that time, that is, the problem of raw materials, the problem of power, fuel, and so fourth. demanded it 11 and 12 hours of work applied. German workers, as well, worked longer hours, and of course they were compensated correspondingly. the following is set down.
"From the reports of displaced workers who had returned home, it can be seen that the average capacity par week was at least 72 hours," to be important of this time.
"Sixty-four hour weeks were not infrequent. Cases of 100-hour weeks in installments of 30 to 38 hours duration were mentioned."
What can you tell us about this? Did you know of cases like that?
concerned with people who were being used in concentration camps or whether the were used in another sector as civilian workers, the sector which was my responsibility. of time in which long hours of work applied, and that was determined by the in. dustry, and the German workers were obligated to work. But if this applied, a corresponding rest period had to be interspersed. not determine from the document and I cannot give you any information.
Q How about free time?
Q And who regulated free time?
Q How about the use of children and young people? permitted to work. As to children under 14, just a few may be used in agriculture, a few hours a day.
Q Did you issue decrees about working hours for children? tance when they applied. ten by the Reich minister Rosenberg addressed to Dr. Lammers, dated the 20th of July 1944.
THE PRESIDENT: Has this been put in before? Has this been offered in evidence before?
DR. SERVATIUS: This document was submitted several days ago in cross examination. I myself have just received it now. BY DR. SERVATIUS: cruitment of young people. Referring to the age group 15 to 20, they were to be used in the Reich during the time of war. Then the document refers to the taking of young people in the age group of 10 to 14 into the Reich, and that is the "H*** Action". It says also that the objective of this action is the better care of these youthful workers of the HJ, and the use of apprentices in German economy, and that these measures have already been taken in agreement with the GBA, that is, with you.
Some of these suggestions are to be put in now. Please comment on them and tell us whether you were responsible for the use of these young people. addresses, my name is nut mentioned.
Q Therefore, there were no special directives?
A No. This was an incident with which I did not concern myself. mentioned in connection with the Schirach case and submitted by the Prosecution. It is document 1137-PS, a letter dated 19/10/44/
On page 3 of this document, the following is set down:
"The following workers have been supplied to Germany: First of all, 3,500 young men and 500 girls for the Junkers works; second, 2,000 young men and 700 girls to the Todt Organization, from the Occupied Eastern Regions. Therefore, through the offices which are under the Hitler youth, 5,500 boys and 1,200 girls were put at the disposal of the armament industry." with you at all?
Q. How were these people brought into the armament industry? people for whom work was prohibited. I was under the impression that this was an order, but I had nothing to do with it and my office had no concern with it.
Q How about the use of women, that is, foreign women, for labor purposes? used.
Q I have a document 025-PS which has been submitted. This is US Exhibit 698, which has been submitted very recently, and which is not contained in the document books. occasion you dealt with the use of foreign female labor, In the third paragraph it says;
"In this way, the Fuehrer has sanctioned the use of 400 to 500 thousand female workers in the eastern regions for domestic purposes, and GBA" -- that is you --"has been charged with the carrying through of this action which is to be concluded in approximately three months."
It says further:
"It is in accord with the specific wish of the Fuehrer that as many women as possible shall be Germanized."