"Beyond that I have changed a few clever people with the establishment of a special manpower executive. That is on the leadership of the Higher SS and Police Leader. A number of native troops were trained and armed, and now I have to ask the Ministry of Armaments to arm these people." events that I have just described. offices of manpower mobilization, and the chief of the department for manpower mobilization in France, President Dr. Ritter, had been murdered. A number of recruiting offices had been raided and destroyed, and for that reason, these same organizations who were standing on the basis of that collaboration had suggested for the protection of their own membership the establishment of a sort of protection group for the recruitment. Of course. I could not do that myself because I had neither authorization nor machinery for doing that, but it had to be done according to the directive of the military commander by the HigherSSand Police Leader; that is, under his supervision. It was done, together with the French Minister of the Interior at that time, Darnaud. For the very same reasons, in order to be able to stand my ground against the reproaches in Central Planning, I brought an example in this somewhat drastic manner. Practically, these hypothetical suggestions were not used,
Q Who carried out, practically, the recruitment of the foreign workers? officials in the various regions or the military commanders or similar civilian institutions, German institutions.
Q You have ordered voluntary recruitment. What was the success of the voluntary recruitment? foreign workers come voluntarily to Germany. the same meeting that we have just mentioned -- you made the remark which goes contrary to that. That is on page 67 of the German photostat, English page 1827. I shall read the sentence to you.
officials who carried them through. had anything to do with the recruitment of labor? which recruited in various ways workers to fill all these other offices; that was part of my job.
Q What kind of offices were they, local offices?
A They were offices of various kinds. I had, myself, found out about them only here, about most of them.
Q What was the "OT"?
A Organization Todt. The OT has independently and for a long time recruited and used manpower.
Q Did the labor service have anything to do with that?
A You mean the labor service of labor leader Hirl? That , I cannot say; that was a German manpower labor organization for the education to work.
Q Were people taken from the armed forces?
A The armed groups, of course; for the establishment of fortifications in the case of local jobs which I neither knew or had any control over, workers were taken from these localities for read constructions.
Q How about the Reichsbahn?
workers whenever they were needed, whenever they needed them.
Q And these offices were now under your supervision? them? very demonstrative manner, I have sent out that manifeste which was mentioned yesterday; since I had no supervision of my own, I had to send it to the various offices to make them heed these instructions.
Q Were there large numbers of workers in the Occupied Territories? power of labor. What about the deportations carried out by Himmler? Did you by any connection with those? not have the least to do with that--never have I or according to my personality and my past experiences, could I have agreed to it, to use prisoners or criminals for work in that manner. I couldn't even do that. I am of rhe conviction that on the basis of my very clear demonstrative statements and actions, one did not even inform me about that whole complex, because that was quite contrary to my opinion, the opinion which I had of work and manpower. I have stated it very often clearly and it is also available in documents here, that I, myself not want to frighten them away. do with recruitment aside from you?
A May I make a short statement in that report? I have heard the word "deportation" in Germany times and I always rejected it because I understand, according to the usage of the German language, I understand the word "deportation" to mean transfer of prisoners, of people who have committed something against the State and on the basis on my opinion about the ethics of work, I have never carried out deportation, but those workers which came through my office -
and that was the paint which I made to Hitler and it was not easy. I have given all foreign workers legal contracts whether they came there voluntarily or on the basis of the German labor obligations, the sane pay and the same nutrition as the German workers. That is why I rejected that concept of deportation for my way of work and my program but the deportations, of which I was informed only here in its terrible extent and with the transport of these workers, I had not to do and to that I can testify to my best conscience. to Germany under all circumstances; that one had to proceed ruthlessly; that it was an absolute necessity to bring these workers in. Does that show that you agreed with such measures? tions: Without a doubt, from various documents, my directives and instructions can be seen--only some could be issued by me because I had no machinery of my own; all these directives from the very beginning prescribe a legal treatment and just treatment. It is correct, however, that I had to repeat that words " under all conditions" in my correspondence with German offices which the Fuehrer had used, speaking to me; that I have used the word "ruthlessly" is also correct to German officers but not with respect to the treatment of workers but with respect to the many arguments, disputes and bickering which came from the German offices which they had amongst themselves and against me -- to a large number, to a large extent, they did not understand thetmeaning of the use of manpower during war time. On the part of the military, the army commanders very often told me, for instance, that it was senseless that I brought those people to Germany. There was the Lasso Army under the Russian general and they wanted that this Russian army should join their army. I rejected that. I did not consider it correct. I did not consider them reliable enough either. Those were the points against which I had to proceed ruthlessly. German officials were concerned with that.
of human beings to Germany? not immediately, but only indirectly--in connection with the use of manpower, and which were very surprising to me in many instances Those were cases concerned with the evacuation of military zones, which very often came surprisingly; that is, with a very short time for preparation, it was indicated that those territories had to be evacuated. the task of the local labor offices to put the population of these evacuated areas to work in areas in the rear, or, as far as they could be used in Germany, to bring them to Germany. culties for me. There were families among them with children and they, of course, also had to be transferred. It was often the wish of the Russian fathers to take their children with them. That could not be done--not because I did not want it, but because it could no be helped. sionally? authorities in these territories, and they were used in agriculture industry, railroads, and so on.
Q Did you have anything to do with resettlement?
A I never had anything to do with resettlement. According to a definite degree of the Fuehrer, that was the task of the Reichsfuehrer SS. German territories?
A Yes. I had about four conversations with Rosenberg, at his request, and he told me about those bad conditions. There was no doubt on my part that such conditions could not be justified.
Q Did he speak about Koch?
There were considerable differences between East Minister Rosenberg and Reichs Commissar Koch.
Q Could you do anything against Koch? indirectly, and I could not give him any directives in such matters. I had him know, from the outset, that I could not agree with such measures as I had heard about through Rosenberg, although I had not received any proof. to Rosenberg--that in his territory he was the solo authority. He also pointed that out to me.
Q Didn't Rosenberg see the cause for these conditions in the fact that your demands were too high?
A I also spoke to Rosenberg about that. I personally was of the opinion that if the demands were divided as they were, it was quite possible to fill the quotas. In the long run, however, I had orders and directives from the Fuehrer and the Central Planning Group. were supposed to be used? discussed by us, but in many directives I had put these methods down unequivocally. I even went so far as to issue and distribute my nanifesto, even to the lower-level offices, so that they could carry it out. occurred against my decrees, and which I objected to.
Q I want to refer you to document 118-PS. That is in the "Slave Labor Brief", page 10.
THE PRESIDENT: That is not page 10. It is number 10.
DR. SERVATIUS: It is USA Exhibit 186. In the English "Slave Labor" book, it is document 10. That is a letter of 21 December 1942.
BY DR. SERVATIUS: Rosenberg complains about the methods used by your agents and assistants. For what kind of offices were you held responsible? because I did not have any offices there, but the Reichs Commissar did. self to the wrong person?
A Rosenberg says, on page 2: "I authorize the Reichs Commissar for the Ukraine, so far as necessary, to make use of his authority." did not see clearly how the authorities were divided in his territory? in office a short time. Rosenberg? Did you do anything? with him at once. Since it was shortly before Christmas, the 21st of December, 1942, I sent a telegram, to Wiemar. I called a meeting at Wiemar, by telegram, for the 6th of January, where representative of various offices in the East were invited. I also invited Reichsleiter Rosenberg to this meeting. Then, at that rally, with all clarity and beyond doubt, these offices were again charged to use nothing but definitely legal methods.
DR. SERVATIUS: In that connection I would like to point to document S-82. That is in document book Sauckel-III, page 206. I also submit the handbook itself, where a number of documents can be found.
the principles of recruiting. He spoke to 800 people who were employed in the manpower mobilization program.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you say 800?
DR. SERVATIUS: Page 206.
THE PRESIDENT: It is 8,000 in my copy. Isn't it 8,000 DR. SERVATIUS: The third book, page 206, document number 82.THE PRESIDENT:
I am looking at document number 82. I thought you said 800 men were employed. I am looking at the beginning of document 82.
DR. SERVATIUS: It begins on page 204. He spoke before 800 people, and not 8,000. It should be 800. That is a mistake in the translation of the document.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
DR. SERVATIUS: The following is stated:
"Principles of our Recruiting:
"Where the voluntary method fails,and experience shows that it fails everywhere, the obligation to serve takes its place."
"It is bitter to tear people from their homeland, from their children. But we did not want the war. The German child who loses his father at the front, the German woman who mourns her husband who fell in battle, are hit much worse. Lot us abandon every false sentiment now."
THE PRESIDENT: You have left out some of the document, have you not?
DR. SERVATIUS: I did not quite understand.
THE PRESIDENT: You have left out some of the document.
DR. SERVATIUS Yes, I left out several sentences. I so stated. However, I can read the whole thing.
THE PRESIDENT: I only mean on page 206. I didn't mean the whole document. On page 206 you have just skipped two sentences.
DR. SERVATIUS: There are four sentences. I will read them again.
"Where the voluntary method fails, the obligation to serve takes its place." Then I left out two sentences, which I shall read:
"This is now the iron law for the employment of labor in 1943. In a few weeks from now there must no longer be an occupied territory in which the obligation to serve is not the most natural thing in the world."
THE PRESIDENT: Didn't you also leave out the words "experience shows that it fails everywhere"?
DR. SERVATIUS: I read that the first time; I wanted to save time.
"We shall discard the last slags of our humanitarian blabbering. Every gun which we procure brings us a minute closer to victory. It is bitter to tear people from their homeland, from their children. But we did not want the war. The German child who loses his father at the front, the German woman who mourns her husband who fell in battle, are hit much worse. Let us abandon every false sentiment now.
"Here let us be guided by the realization that in the long run a high output can be demanded of foreign workers only if they a re satisfied with their fate.
"I do not tolerate human beings being treated badly.
"Under no circumstances are you, as the recruiting commission abroad, permitted to promise things which, according to the directives and regulations issued, are not possible and cannot be carried out on account of the war. It is much better to intorduce labor conscription and say: 'You must take this upon yourselves and therefore you will enjoy the rights of the workers employed in Germany.
' Who works in Germany has a right to live in Germany, even if he was a Bolshevist. We shall watch here very strictly that the German name not be sullied. You can demand of me any protection in your field of work, but none for any crimes. The name of our nation is holy. For the first time in German history you must represent for the Reich the principles of German labor. Be aware of that at all times." BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q. Aside from the information which you received from Rosenberg, did you receive any other reports concerning the recruiting methods?
receive any other complaints directly, but I have directed that any complaints which would be received by my office should be immediately forwarded to the competent Reich authorities for investigation and punishment. I would like to be permitted to state here that my office received many complaints for which I was competent, but those were complaints about insufficient numbers of workers which I brought. That was within my competence to take care of such complaints. For matters of administration, for unjust matters in various fields, I was not competent. The various Reich officers were competent for that. there. Wasn't anything reported to you? the fact that I was concerned about these things although they were not within my competence. been surrounded. Do you remember that case? that he had been informed that, in the area of his Army group, a movie theater had been surrounded and the people who attended that movie had been brought to Germany to work there. That case which was presented by Field Marshal Kluge was available, who can testify to that. The result of the investigation was the following: That there was not labor recruitment for Germany but a building industry group near Rovno who had a celebration on the occasion of finishing their work in that movie, and right in the middle of that celebration they received the order that that same work group had to be used at a different locality; and the manager interrupted that celebration in a very drastic way by carrying out, with the police group, the transportation of these workers right from the movie. So that, of course had nothing to do with my officers and my organization, but it took about a quarter of a year for me to find out the true facts and report them to Fieldmarshal Kluge. In every case I have investigated such complaints.
Q This brings us to the transportation. We are leaving the chapter of recruitment now and I speak about transportation. Who was responsible for the transportation?
roads, and the officers mentioned in my Directive No. 4, local officers' department of the territories. Right from the outset, when I assumed my office, I had conferences with Dr. Dormueller, Reich Minister of Transportation, his State Secretary, Dr. Ganzemueller, and Kleinmueller, and I agreed with them then that the workers' transportation through Germany should be carried out in the best possible way; that if they should recruit Russians on these transports that under no circumstances the cars should be crowded, and that if at all possible coaches should be used for these transports.
That was agreed to by the Reich Minister of Transportation and he said that I could not ask for better transportation for the German soldiers; but he guaranteed that the cars would not be crowded.
Q. You have seen the Molotov report. That is Document USSR 51. You know its contents. There mention is made of the condition of these transports, that the cars were over-crowded, that dying people were thrown out, that children were born dying almost immediately. Was anthing reported to you about these conditions; did you have any knowledge of them?
A. Such incidents were not reported to me in my office and it could not possibly have been labor transports of my office.
Q. What kind of transports could they have been?
A. As far as I can see here, in the course of the proceedings, it could have been transports of inmates of concentration camps for reasons of evacuation or such. I don't know it but I can't explain it any differently, because under no circumstances did I tolerate any such conditions or find out about them That wouldn't have done any good to us.
THE PRESIDENT: Where is that document, USSR 51?
DR. SERVATIUS: USSR 51 has been submitted; that is the official report. I have here a printed German copy. I assume that it has been submitted to the Tribunal. If not, I shall submit it and I shall get it.
THE PRESIDENT: If it has got the number USSR 51, it must have been submitted to the Tribunal. That is the exhibit number. I wonder whether it has got some other number which we can identify it by.
DR. SERVATIUS: Then the prosecution has submitted document 054-PS; that is USA Exhibit 198. That is in theEnglish Slave Labor Book No. 13. BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q. There, on Page 4, mention is made of transports where it begins "Very depressing for the morale of the skilled workers and the population is the -
A. This can only deal with happenings -
THE PRESIDENT: We haven't had the question yet, have we? The question didn't come through I think.
DR. SERVATIUS: I will put the question again.
Q. In this document mention is made of transports back from Germany to the East and the transports are criticized; catasthropic conditions are described. I quote from the document: "Very depressing for the morale of the skilled workers and the population is the effect of those persons shipped back from Germany for having become disabled or not having been fit for labor commitment from the very beginning. Several times already transports of skilled workers on their way to Germany have crossed returning transports of such disabled persons and have stood on the tracks alongside of each other for a longer period of time. These returning transports are insufficiently cared for. Nothing but sick, injured or weak people, mostly 50-60 to a car, are usually escorted by 3-4 men. There is neither sufficient care or food. The returnees made frequently unfavorable -- but surely exaggerated -- statements relative to their treatment in German and on the way. As a result of all this and of what the people could see with their own eyes, a psychosis of fear was evoked among the specialist workers respecting the whole transport to Germany. Several transport leaders -- of the 62nd and the 63rd in particular -- reported there to in detail. In one case the leader of the transport of skilled workers observed with his own eyes how a person who died of hunger was unloaded from a returning transport on the side track. (1st Lt. Hofmann of the 63rd transport, Station Darniza.) Another time it was reported that three dead had to be -- "
THE PRESIDENT: I don't think you need read all of this to the Defendant. He probably knows it and he can give his answer upon it. BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q. You can see here a report is mentioned and I would like you to state your position here.
A. Concerning that report, my position is the following: These terrible conditions had to be investigated by the local authorities there at once. The report about the result of the investigation has not reached me and this report has not reached me either. I myself may be permitted to point put that the transports of sick people, people incapable of working, had been prohibited by me, the transport of those people to Germany, because that was a crime and, economically speaking, an impossibility.
Whoever took care of these transports I could not possibly say. It has not been quite explained what kind of transports these were. The report deals with a description of conditions which had already existed before I came into office. I, personally -- and I should like to emphasize this particularly -- have issued degrees according to which sick people or pregnant women -- I personally have issued degrees that in the case of a transport back of sick people, the German Red Cross should furnish personnel to accompany them back to their native town. This decree can be found in the collection of degrees. Such a terrible case of neglect and crime is, therefore, in open contradiction to the clear degrees and regulations which have been issued by the German authorities.
Q. Didn't you install Bad Frankenthal for sick people who could not return?
A. In my own Gau it was not Bad Frankenthal but Bad Frankenhauser. Bad Frankenhauser was put aside by me for sick Soviet workers, and in addition to that, in Edendorf near Weimar, I had a large school put aside with a hundred beds for typhoid patients among the Russian prisoners of war. Therefore, on my own initiative, I did everything which was possible in order to help against diseases. It was prohibited to transport people while they were sick.
THE PRESIDENT: We had better adjourn now.
(A recess was taken) BY DR. SERVATIUS:A (Interposing) Doctor, May I comment on Document 954-PS and supplement my testimony?
call your attention to the reporter. These extraordinary cases of transport which took place in the first few months, to our knowledge, did not repeat themselves in the summer. In the first months of the year 1942, I believe, I was not even in office, and my program did not commence until May. In the summer of that year, as it is pictured correctly here, these conditions had been stopped. I believe on page 10, you will find a copy of the letter of complaint. It says there, "As I have told you in my letter of 20 Apr. 42". You can see from this letter of complaint that the complaint concerned took place before I assumed office.
Q I was asking you about the arrival of workers in Germany. What happened when a transport arrived in Germany? to be put in the records, and the members had to be examined by position. The transport had to be checked in every way. This examination already took place at the time of recruitment at the place of recruitment. put to work, these recruiters were subjected to three medical examinations, according to my directives.
Q And what were the transition camps -- Durchgangslager? at the boundary where they were checked, examined and registered in the proper manner.
Q I should like to submit Document UK 39 to you. The exhibit number is not at my disposal.
THE PRESIDENT: It is a British exhibit?
DR. SERVATIUS: I could not determine whether there has been an exhibit number assigned to this document. I should like to check on this. But this document was submitted to me.
THE PRESIDENT: You gave the number UK 39.
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes, UK 39, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: It must be a British exhibit number, must it not?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: The series is not a British exhibit; our exhibits are "GB". It is an earlier series of documents that we have prepared. But we will try to find out.
BY DR. SERVATIUS: dated the 18th January 1943. It concerns itself with concentration camps Herzogenbusch. "Then this camp will be equipped as a transit camp." Was that a place where your workers were sent? It was not a transit camp for workers but was a transit camp for inmates of concentration camps. I did not know about this. I never had to concern myself with these transit camps and would not have dealt with them. UK-78 and French document, FR-274. The heading is, "Third Study." It is a comprehensive report and I shall quote according to my notes. Approximately the following was said:
"Immediately upon their arrival the workers were taken to those more or less slave markets to be sorted out. Conditions of life were deplorable there."
Was that a transit camp under your jurisdiction? scribed in such a way. in practice? I should like to refer once more to the Molotov report, USSR-51. The Soviet Delegation have told me that this document was submitted under this document exhibit number. In this report it says that the workers were taken to the slave market and were sold for ten to twenty marks. Comment on this, please. either industrial or agricultural, can be a witness to the fact that any such proceeding never took place, that through the authorities of the Reich Ministry it would bot have been conceivable to institute such slave marts, but that these workers who were put at the disposal of the State had the same conditions of work and the same contract as the German workers themselves. Of course, there were some alight changes in some cases, but in no case were they treated as slaves without pay, without contract, without sickness insurance, without accident insurance. They were never put to work that way, and that may be seen from my directives and the directives issued by the Labor Minister.
And this can be proved through these directives and decrees which were issued. workers in Germany? Germany, as far as the workers were recruited through the authorities, the conditions were exactly the same as those that applied to German workers when they were in these camps. Conditions of life, of course, were dictated, of course, by the war, and during the war the same limitations applied to these people as the limitations that applied to the German population in war. And the adjutant of Baldur, von Schirach at Vienna, a man unknown to me, cited conditions, and these conditions applied in other German cities.
Q Well, how about protective measures in these camps? mine. The camps were subordinate to the industries which they worked for. These are directives which were issued in Baden regarding the treatment of Poles in Germany. This is USA Exhibit 205, to be found in the book, "Slave Labor". Document No. 4/ I should like to read the beginning of this document, something which you have seen already, and it says there:
"The agencies of the Reich Food Administration (Reichsnaehrstand), State Peasant Association of Baden, have received the result of the negotiations with the Higher SS and Police officer in Stuttgart on 14 February 1941, with great satisfaction. Appropriate memoranda have already been turned over to the District Peasants Associations. Below I promulgate the individual regulations, as they have been laid down during the conference and how they are now to be applied accordingly:
"1. Fundamentally, farm workers of Polish nationality no longer have the right to complain and thus no complaints may be accepted any more by any official agency.
