Czechoslovakia? through radio, and I didn't hear any more than any other citizen heard through the wireless. negotiations regarding the Munich Pact, with Chamberlain and Daladier in 1938?
Q. And what was your opinion? and it was my firm conviction that Hitler would keep that agreement ing Poland in 1939?
A No, I didn't hear about the negotiations which led to the war until I was here in this courtroom. I only know that version of those negotiations which was officially announced through the wireless or the Ministry of Propaganda respectively, and I know no more, therefore, than what every other German citizen know. The version which Hitler announced before the Reichstag was considered by no to be absolutely true, and I never doubted it, or at least I didn't doubt it until 1943, and all I have heard here about it is news to me. accused you that in your book "Hitler Youth, Idea and porn", which, Mr. President, is No. L-360, you used the expression "Lebensraum", living space, and "Ostraum", eastern space, and that by doing so you expressed the idea that the occupation carried out by Germany in the Hast, that is to say Soviet Russia and Poland, were wanted by you or considered a necessity.
What do you have to say about that?
A In this book of mine, "Hitler Youth, Its porn and Ide the word "Lebensraum", living space, isn't used at all. Only the word "eastern space" is used, Ostraum, and I think it is in connec tion with a press service, eastern section.
In an aside, an auxiliary sentence, there is a statement describing the tasks of the Colonial Department in the Hitler Youth, and saying that through the activities of this Colonial Department one oughtn't forgot the fact that the necessity exists of drawing the attention of youth to the use of space in the East, and by that I meant the thinly populated eastern parts of Germany. particularly concerned with the problem of escape from the land, that is to say, the departure of the second or third sons of farmer to towns. I formed a special movement of youth for that purpose, the rural service, which had the task of stopping this flow of yout from the country to the town, and which had the task of bringing home to youth in towns the advantages of the country. That was their task. territory because, ever since I occupied myself with history, politically it was always my point of view that Bismarck's policy regarding cooperation with Russia should be commenced again. The attack against the Soviet Union was considered by me to be the suicide of the German nation. Reich, have the right to report to Hitler directly of your own from will? more or less only on paper. To picture that precisely, before the seizure of power I reported to Hitler more frequently in person. I 1932, he quite often announced his intention to dine with me in the evening, but it is quite clear that in the presence of my wife and other guests political questions were not discussed, particularly not the questions which fell into my special tasks. Only now and then, perhaps, I might touch upon a subject which interested me in connection with education.
sonally twice, once regarding the financing of the youth movement, and the second time in connection with the Party Rally of 1933. During the following years, my reports numbered once or twice nor annum on the average, but something happened to me which probably happened to most people who reported to Hitler, namely that of the 15 points on which I proposed to report to him, I managed to deal with two or three or four, and the others had to be dropped because he interrupted me and very explicitly explained the things which interested him most. stadiums, youth hostels, and such things, which I erected in a hall in the Reichschancellory, and when he looked at them I used the opportunity to put two or three questions to him. youth. Hitler took very little interest in educational questions. As far as education was concerned, I received next to no suggestions from him. The only time when he did produce a real suggestion as far as athletic training was concerned was in 1935 when he told me that I should see to it that boxing should be more popular amongst the youth. I did so, but in spite of invitations he never attended a boxing match for the youngsters, and my friend von Schammerosten, the sports leader, and I tried very often to bring him alone, to make him come to our sporting events, skiing, ice hockey championships in Garmisch, and so forth, but apart from the events of the Olympic games, it was impossible to get him to participate.
Q. Witness, you have told us a little earlier how this so-called military or pre-military education worked, as far as one could talke about such education and you said that it played only a minor part in the training and education of Hitler Youth. in accordance with your ideas, were the chief aims of your youth education. Only give clue words.
A. Tent camps, journeys, building of youth hostels and homes.
Q. What do you mean by "journeys"?
A. Walks, marches individually and in groups; walks; the construction of more and more youth hostels. In one year alone, more than 1,000 homes and youth hostels were built by me in Germany. Then there was additional professional training, and then what I called the Olympic events of work, namely the annual trade contests, voluntary competition between all youth of both sexes who wanted to participate.
Q. You mean working youth?
A. Yes, and in fact millions participated.
Q. And then?
A. Our normal sports events, championships in every type of sport, our cultural work, and the construction of our singing groups, acting groups, concert groups and choirs, our youth libraries, and then something which I mentioned in connection with the escape from the land, the rural service with its helper groups, those youths, who for idealistic reasons were working in the country, even when they were town boys, to show the farmer boys that the land was really more beautiful than the town, so a town boy, too, would give up his life in town to devote his life to the land. Then, the dental service and medical examinations were carried out. had, but they are by no means all.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, these ideas, these thoughts, and these aims of defendant von Schirach are contained in a number of documents which are found in the document book Schirach, and which are extracts from his works, speeches and orders. I am referring to document book Schirach, 32 to 39, 44 to 50, 66 to 74-A, 76 to 79, and, finally, 80 to 83, all inclusive. has just described to you, and I am asking the Tribunal to take judicial notice of the details in these documents. BY DR. SAUTER: like to deal, because the prosecution has particularly raised that accusation against you. That is your collaboration with the Lawyers Union, that is to say, your contact with legal life. I am interestedin that connection, why did you, the Reich Youth Leader, interest yourself in legal problems at all? What were you aiming at, and what did you achieve? Please, will you tell us that very briefly, because it has been emphasized during the case for the Prosecution. being a Youth State. In that Youth State all professions were represented, and all tasks. My collaboration with the Lawyers Union was due to the necessity that for our professional use we should train legal advisors who could offer them the necessary legal protection. I was anxious that those Hitler Youth Leaders who were studying law should return to the organization to deal with just these tasks within the organization. zation within the youth which was equivalent to the organization of medical officers in this organization. You see, our organization comprised approximately 1,000 doctors and female doctors. These legal men assisted the staff in the district and various units of our Youth Organization. They assisted in seeing to it that those demands were put through which I had made very early during our fighting time before the seizure of power, and which I had represented emphatically in the State later on, namely, the demands for free time and for paid holidays for the young workers.
faculties for youth right attached to the universities at Kiel and Bonn, and it particularly had the result that those demands which I have voiced in a speech in 1936 before the Legal Youth Committee of the Academy for German Law could be carried through.
DR. SAUTER: That is Document 63. It is a speech which is contained, Mr. President, in document book Schirach, Number 63. It is an article in "Das Archiv" of October 1936. BY DR. SAUTER: demands you as Reich Youth Leader had made regarding the youth, which social demands. You said earlier, free time. What did you mean by that? the abolishment of night work for young peopoe; a prohibition of work for children; extending weekends; and three weeks paid holiday every year. workers had no holidays at all, and that only one percent had 15 to 18 days per annum. In 1938, on the other hand, I had achieved the Youth Protection Law which ordered the prohibition of work for children, and which stated that the age for youngsters was put up from 16 to 18; and which stated that there was to be no night work for youngsters; and which realized my demand regarding the extended weekend, and increased holidays for youngsters to at least 15 days per annum. That was all I could achieve. It was only part of what I wanted to achieve. document book under document numbers 40, 41, and 60 to 64, inclusive.
DR. SAUTER: I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of these. BY DR. SAUTER:
that is your position within the Party. Sometime ago we were shown a chart in this court room, which showed the organization of the Party. Was that plan true, or what was your position within the Party? at least not as far as the channels of command are concerned. According to this chart which was exhibited here, the channel of orders would have been from Reich Loader for Youth and Education to the Chief of the Party Chancellory, and from there to Hitler and from Hitler to the Reich Youth Loaders office of the Party. That of course is an erroneous picture.
I wasn't in the Party Loader's office to give my orders through the Gauleiters and district leaders. The reason why I was there was because I was the representative and head of youth, so that if you want to describe my position and the position of my organization in the framework of the NSDAP correctly, then you would have to show or build a pyramid, the tip of which, that is to say, my position in the Party Leader's office, should be on the same level as the Reichsleiter. with the Party.
Q And the other leaders and sub-leaders of youth?
A Some of them may have been Party members, but not all. At any rate, they were not members of the Gauleiters' offices or Kreisleiters' offices. The entire State of youth, the entire organization of youth, stood by the side of the Party as an entire organization of its own. a civil servant of the Reich. of a high Reich office; is that right? civil servant.
Q And the title was?
with reference to the Minister of Interior and Education Ministers, were independent, weren't you?
A Yes, that was the idea of creating that department. That was the purpose of an independent Reich department. been stated?
A I am convinced not. For the first time in this court room I heard that I was a member of the cabinet, that I was supposed to be a member of the cabinet. I have never participated in a cabinet meeting. I have never received a decree or any such document which would make me a member of the cabinet. I have never received invitations to attend cabinet meetings. In fact, I have never considered myself as a member of the Reichs Cabinet, and I think that the ministers did not consider me as such either. in any way, for instance, by having the records or minutes sent to you?
A No, never. Resolutions passed by the Cabinet after the 1st December 1936, as far as any such resolutions were passed, only reached me in the same way as they reached any other employees of the Reich who read the Reich Law Gesetz or the Ministerial Gesetz of the Reich. Records and minutes were never sent to me. you receive your staff which you needed through a ministry, or how did you recruit that staff? were made civil servants through me, and I didn't receive a single official from any ministry who might have dealt with matters relating to youth organizations. The entire supreme Reich department, if I remember correctly, consisted of no more than five officials. It was the smallest supreme Reich Department in the Reich, something I was particularly proud of. We were carrying out a very large task with a minimum number of personnel.
rather lengthy, and that is the affidavit which you have already mentioned, by Greger Ziemer. That is a very large affidavit which has been presented by the prosecution under the number 2441 PS.
witness, what do you have to say indetail to that affidavit? Do you know it? Do you know this man Ziemer? so-called knowledge? American school in Berlin; that is, before the war, and that he has written a book which apparently deals with youth and school education in Germany, and that this affidavit is an extract from that book. I believe, to have more propaganda and political significance than depicted. is the page which contains Ziemer's affidavit; and in the last paragraph it says that there had been street fights outside the American school between the Jewish scholars in their school and the little youngsters. I need not deal with the difficulties which the school itself had, because they did not come under my sphere of influence. But these street fights took place outside the school ; and I think I ought to say something about them. heard about them under all circumstances because during most of 1938 I was in Berlin. So I would have had to hoar of it certainly through the youth organizationitself, because the senior youth leaders would have had to report to me if that incident had taken place. office, because if youngsters from the American colony had been molested there, there would have had to be protests through the embassy and the foreign office, and those protests would most certainly have been passed on to me at once, and, in fact, reported to me by telephone.
I can only imagine that this is a very large exaggeration. The American ambassador, Wilson -- I think this was in the Spring of 1929, and I do not think I am wrong - had breakfasted with me in the foreign house at Gatau , and among other things we discussed a number of subjects. And amongst them -and afterwards I was sure of that on this occasion -- he would most certainly have mentioned such incidents if they had in reality occurred in the war Mr. Ziemers is describing them. which is -
THE PRESIDENT (Interposing) How much of this document has been read by the prosecution? As far as I know, very little.
DR. SAUTER: I beg your pardon?
THE PRESIDENT: How much of this affidavit has been read and put in evidence by the prosecution?
DR. SAUTER: I am afraid I cannot tell you that offhand, Mr. President. But judging by practice, I am of the view that if the document is submitted to the Tribunal, the entire document is taken under judicial notice by the tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: That is not so. We have stated over and over again that we take judicial notice only of documents whichhave been read to the Tribunal, unless they are documents of which full translations have been given. This document was, I suppose, presented in the course of the prosecution's case, and probably one sentence out of it was read at the time. I do not know how much was read; but you and the defendant ought to know.
MR. DODD: There was only one paragraph read, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: One paragraph.
MR. DODD: One full paragraph, and perhaps one short one on Page 21.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I have it here.
MR. DODD: I think the prosecution covered the part having to do with the speech at Heidelberg.
THE PRESIDENT: And that is the only part of it that has been read, and that is, therefore, the only part of it that is in evidence.
THE WITNESS: Perhaps with reference to credibility -- and I shall not deal in detail with the accusations contained in that affidavit -- I might be allowed to say that with one exception all the annual slogans of the Hitler Youth were misrepresented in this affidavit, and that Gregor Ziemer nevertheless swears to the correctness of his statement.
THE PRESIDENT: Wouldn't it be best, if you want to reply to his affidavit, that you should direct the defendant's attention to the part which has been read; then he can make an answer to that?
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, in Ziemer's affidavit, which the defendant is regarding as an attempt to make bad blood, the old slogans are mentioned which are supposed to be known by the defendant; and the "slogan" means the "parole" of the slogan which was to be decided for the work of the following year.
THE PRESIDENT: One passage of this document has been put in. If you want to put in the rest, you are entitled to do so. But I should have thought that it would have been the best way for you to answer the passage which has been put in. The rest of the affidavit is not in evidence.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, in that case, my client would got the worst end of the bargain, because in other passages which have not been used by the prosecution -
THE PRESIDENT: (Interposing) I said you could use the other passages if you want to.
DR. SAUTER: Simply because then I can prove that Mr. Ziemer's statements are not correct, that is why I have just been trying to clarify the question of annual slogans and discuss it with the defendant,which is only one example.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, the defendent is apparently saying that the affidavit is unreliable because of the slogans which are referred to in it. Is that not sufficient for your purpose?
DR. SAUTER: Yes; but I on trying to submit evidence to you of the fact that Mr. Ziemer's statements are untrue. The defendant, you see, maintains that the statements contained in that affidavit are not true, and I am trying to prove to you that, in fact, Mr. Ziermers is telling untruths.
THE PRESIDENT: Surely, Dr. Sauter, there being one passage in this affidavit which is in evidence, you can deal with the question of the credit of of the person who made the affidavit very shortly. BY DR. SAUTER:
Q. Witness, this Mr. Ziemer is his affidavit is making statements regarding the annual slogans which you had issued to the Hitler Youth. How these annual slogans were worded can be easily seen by the Tribunal from Ziemer's affidavit; and I am now asking you to tell us how the annucal slogans of the Hitler Youth were worded during your time; that is, 1933 to 1940.
A. Mr. Ziemer mentions the slogans on Page 16 of the English document. Mr. Ziemer says that in 1933 the slogan for the German Youth had been "One Reich, One Nation, One Fuehrer." He means probably "One People, One Reich, One Fuehrer".
Actually, the year of 1933 was the year of "Unity".
Q. What do you mean by "Unity".
A. The year in which German Youth was being formed into one unit.
Q. Witness, I want to skip a few years right here and come to the year of 1938. What was your slogan for the Hitler Youth in 1938?
A. The year of 1938 was the year of "Understanding". Mr. Ziemer says the slogan had been, "Every Year, Every Youth, One Pilot".
Q. And then in 1939, what was your slogan?
A. That was the year of the "Duty Towards Health". According to Mr. Ziemer, it was "Hitler Youth Marches".
Q. And finally, 1940? That was your last year.
A. It was the year of "Improving Ourselves". And he says, "we are Marchinggagainst England".
But I want to add that the first slogan, "One People, One Reich, One Fuehrer", which Ziemer says was the annual slogan in 1933 for German Youth, arose first in 1938 when Hitler went into Austria. Before, that slogan did not exist at all. It has never been the annual slogan of German Youth.
Q. Witness, we must comply with the wish of the Tribunal and not go into the affidavit of Ziemer any more, with the exception of the one point which has been used by the prosecution and which has been made the subject of an accusation raised against you in connection with the accusation of antiSemitism against you. I shall skip Mr. Ziemer's further statement, and I come to this speech at Heidelberg. Will you tell me, sir, first of all for reasons of connection, what Ziemer said, and then define your attitude?
A. Ziemer said that during a meeting of the Jugend in Heidelberg, I think in 1938, either the end of 1933 or the beginning of 1939, I had made a speech against the Jews, which I made during a rally of the National Socialist Student Union. He says that on that occasion I praised students for the destruction of the Heidelberg Synagogue, and that following that I had the students file past me, and gave them decorations and certificates of promotion. me before. By the request of the Deputy Fuehrer, Rudolf Hess, in 1934, I handed the leadership of the student movement over to him. He then appointed a Reich student leader; and after that time, I did not speak before any student meetings. and there I spoke to youth. This was one or one and a half years before Ziemer's date. And on one occasion I visited the university at Heidelberg.
Q. All of this is irrelevant.
A. I have no recollection of any meeting of students of this type, and I have no recollection of ever having publicly stated my views about the Jewish pogrom in 1938.
I shall now translate what Ziemers said in English. He says: "The day will come when the students of Heidelberg will take up their place side by side with the millions of other students to capture the world for the ideology of Nazism." small circles. These are not my words, and I haven't spoken them. Decorations or certificates for students could not be given by me at all, because decorations for studying did not exist. All decorations were issued by the head of the State. think I decorated 230 people with it altogether. It only went to people with the greatest merit for education. me whether this is correct, that the speech, at the end of 1938, before the students at Heidelberg, during which the speaker had pointed at the wreckage of a synagogue -- that speech was not made by you because at that time,for years, you had not had anything to do with students' movements. Is that correct?
A I had nothing to do with students' movements, and I do not remember having spoken before such a meeting. I consider it quite out of the question that such an affair took place at all, and I haven't said so?
Q Have you got the document before you?
A Yes. I can't find that particular passage at the moment. it mentions the small, fat , student leader. Have you got that passage? Doesn't it say so?
Q Well then, surely "small, fat, student leader" can't be applied to you.
DR. SAUTER: May I, Mr. President, in this connection, draw your attentio n to an affidavit which appears in Schirach's document book under the number 3, and which I am herewith presenting to the Tribunal. It is an affidavit of a certain Hoepken, who, beginning with the 1st of May, 1938, was the secretary of the defendant von Schirach, and who, in this affidavit, under the figure 16 -- which is page 22 of the document book -- mentions exact details.
He states, under oath, that during that time with which we are here concerned the defendant was not at Heidelberg at all.
I don't suppose it is necessary for me to read that part of the affidavit. I an asking the Tribunal to take judicial notice of it.
THE PRESIDENT: I think this would be a good time to break off.
(A recess was taken) BY DR. SAUTER: fact that you did not consider officers desirable as youth leaders. I would like to know how many members of the Leadership Corps of the Hitler Youth, in 1939 at the outbreak of the war, were reserve officers in the armed forces? leaders. Those were leaders of the Banne, leaders of the districts, Gebiete, and the assistants and their staffs. Of these 3,100 leaders of youth, five to ten were reserve officers. or in the Leadership Corps? leaders.
Q Why not? Was there a regulation against that?
A Yes. An officer was not permitted to be a member of the Party or any one of its parts or affiliated organizations. and sports programs in the Hitler Youth? Sports Leader in the Olympic year. He cooperated very closely with me and subordinated himself to me, voluntarily, in December or November 1936. He held, under me, the responsibility for the entire physical education of boys and girls.
Q This Mr. von Schammer Osten, who was very well known in the international sports world, was he an officer by profession? officer. Then he left the army and was an agronomist by profession. Later on he concerned himself only with questions of physical education and sport. One of his brothers was an active officer.
Q. Did von Schammer-Osten become an officer during the Second World War?
A. No.
Q. Then do you remember a document which has been submitted here by the Soviet prosecution that was the report from Lemberg -- I believe it was from Lemberg -- in which it is stated that the Hitler Youth or the Reich youth leadership had courses for adolescents from Poland and had arranged such course in order to use these adolescents later as agents and spies and parachutists, and trained them for that purpose? You have stated today that you take the complete responsibility for the leadership of the Hitler Youth; therefore, I ask you to tell us something about that.
A. We had absolutely no prerequisites for espionage training in our youth organization. Whether Heydrich on his part, and without my knowledge and without the knowledge of my assistants, had hired youthful agents and used them in his information service, that is beyond my knowledge. I myself did not conduct any espionage training; I had no courses for agents, and parachutist training I could not carry out simply because I had no air force. A training of that kind could only have takne place through the Air Force.
Q. Then you, as Reich Youth Loader, or, as it was called later, as Reich Leader for Youth Education, never have known anything about these things, before this trial? Can you state that under oath?
A. That I can state upon my oath, and I should like to add that shortly before the war adolescent refugees from Poland came in large numbers to us, but they of course did not return to Poland. The persecution of the Germans in Poland is a historical fact.
Q. Witness, the prosecution has assorted that in the Hitler Youth a song was sung, "Heute Gehoert Uns Deutschland", Und Morgen Die Ganze Welt; Today Germany belongs to us, Tomorrow the whole world; that is the text that allegedly that song had, and that is supposed to have expressed the will for conquest of the Hitler Youth; is that correct?
A. The song says, in the original text, which was written by Hans Baumann and is also included in one document here: "Heute Gehoert Uns Deutschland", Germany hears us, not belongs to us; and tomorrow the whole world. But it has come to my knowledge also that the song, from time to time, was sung in that form which has been mentioned here, and for that reason I issued a prohibition against singing the song in a different way from the original.
I also prohibited, years ago, that the song should be sung in the German Hitler Youth, "we will Beat France"(???)
Q. You prohibited that text?
A. Yes.
Q. Out of consideration for your French guests?
A. Not out of consideration for my French guests but because it was contract to my political conceptions.
Q. Of the first song mentioned, I submit the correct text which I got from a song book. It is No. 95 of Document Book Schirach. In connection with the question of whether the Hitler Youth leadership conducted and intended a premilitary training of youth, I should like to put the following question: Did the physical and sport training of youth apply only to the boys?
A. No. Of course the entire youth received physical training.
Q. Also the girls?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it correct that your attempts of physical training and physical education of youth also applied to blind youth and others who from the very outset could not be used for military purposes?
A. Very early in our work I included the blind and deaf and the cripples in the Hitler Yout. I had a periodical issued for the blind and books. I believe that Hitler Youth was the only organization in Germany which took care of these people, in addition to the organizations of the NSV and so on, National Socialist welfare organizations.
DR. SAUTER: I ask, in connection with that, that you take notice of Document 27 of document Book Schirach. That is a long article entitled "Coordination of --" where the deaf and blind are especially mentioned, that they should be trained to become fully capable of occupation.
MR. DODD: I have refrained all day from making any objection, but I think this examination has gone very far afield. We have made no charge against this Defendant with respect to the blind, the deaf, the lame and the halt.
He keeps going back to the Boy Scouts and we haven't gotten to any of the relevant issues that are between us and this Defendant. At the present rate I fear we will never get through.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, we have listened to this somewhat long accou* of the training of the Hitler Youth. Don't you think you can go on to something more specific now? We have got a very fair conception, I think, of what the training of the Hitler Youth was and we have got all these documents before us.
DR. SAUTER: I shall try, Mr. President, to proceed according to your wishes as far as it is at all possible. BY DR. SAUTER:
Q. Witness, is it correct that you, personally, intervened with Hitler to prevent training being established in military schools; that is that purely military institutions of training should be reestablished?
A. Yes, that is correct. I prevented the reestablishment of cadet and state military schools and academics.
I come now to a different chapter. Someone has accused the Defendant the he had destroyed the Protestant and Catholic youth organizations. hat can you say as an answer to that?
A. First, the following: I intended, as I have already explained, to bring about the unification of youth as a whole. I also had in mind to bring the Protestant organizations, which are not very large, and the very large Catholic organizations into the Hitler Youth, particularly because some of the organizations did not limit themselves to religious matters but competed with the Hitler Youth concerning physical training, marches, camping and so on. In that I saw a danger for the idea of unity of German national education and ab* all I felt that in the Hitler Youth itself there was a very strong tendency toward the Hitler Youth and away from the confessional organizations; that is fact. And there were also many clergymen who were of the opinion that develop ment should go in about the following direction: All youth into Hitler Youth; the spiritual care of the youth by clergymen; snorts and political work through youth leadership. In 1933 or '34 -- I think it was in 1933 -- the Reichs Bishop Mueller, together with the Protestant Bishop Oberheidt, approached me on their own and proposed to no to incorporate the Protestant youth organizations into the Hitler Youth.
Of course I was very happy about that and accepted it at that time. I had no idea that within the Protestant church there was resistance and opposition to Reichs Bishop Mueller. I found out about that much later. I believed that he was quite capable of speaking and acting in the name of the Evangelical Church and also the other Bishop who accompanied him strengthened that impression.
Even today I still believe that with that act of a voluntary incorporation of the Protestant youth into the State Youth acted according to the will of the majority of the Protestant youth themselves because, at the occasion of my later activity as youth leader, I frequently met former leaders from the Protestant Youth Organization who had leading positions with me and worked in my Youth Organization and enjoyed it greatly. to stress that right away, the spiritual care was not touched; a reduction of church services did not take place in Germany for youth, neither then nor later. Since the Protestant Youth, on the basis of an agreement between the churchand the Hitler South had been incorporated, there was practically only a dispute about youth education between the Catholic Church and the Hitler Yout. negotiations for the Reichs Concordat with the Holy See because I wanted to remove the differences between the Catholic Youth and the Hitler Youth. I considered very important any agreement in that field and, in fact, I participated in these negotiations which took place in June '34, in the Reich Ministry of the Interior under the chairmanship of Reichminster for the Interior Frick. On the Catholic side representatives were Archbishop Broeber and Bishop Berning, and at that time I established a formula and proposed that formula for cooperation, which was accepted agreeably by the Catholic side, and I believed to have found the platform for a pacification in that field. of June, and on the 30th of June, '34, we experienced the so-called "Roehm Putsch" and the negotiations were never resumed. That is not my fault and I certainly have no responsibility for that. Hitler did not want to take the consequences from the Concordat. I, personally, had the desire to bring baout that agreement, and I believe that also the representatives of the church saw from these negotiations, and from later conferences with me, that I did not present the difficulties. I believe Bishop Berning came to me in '39, and we discussed current questions between youth education and the church.