That can probably be seen by the fact that I had a tense relationship with all the camp commanders, and I was actually on the warpath against them. The works managers knew very well whenever I would hear something about it, I would not only report it to the higher-ups but also follow up the case.
A.- And that actually caused open hostility between the two. I know for certain that the commander of Mauthausen was only waiting for one opportunity to get my skin somehow. The workers manager of Mauthausen, Herr Walter, pointed out to me repeatedly by saying, "Herr Mummenthey, watch out. I believe they --" and when I say "they" he meant the Kommandantur " -- had something against you. They are trying to do something against you."
Even if I had some sort of an insight into the conditions in the concentration camps at the time, the way I know things were going on today is from the documents which were introduced by the Prosecution and in other trials, my possibilities would have stopped at the gates of the con centration camp.
Q.- Herr Mummenthey, we have repeatedly come back to Document R-129. That is the famous order, according to which the commanders of concentration camps were also responsible -- were to be responsible -- for the enterprises. Do you have to add anything to your testimony with reference to that order? Coula a responsibility be derived from that or could responsibility, from you, for whatever the camp commanders then did?
A.- In this order the W offices are not mentioned at all. It is stated there that for the inmates which were being employed in the camps, in the enterprises, rather, the commanders alone were responsible. It is furthermore stated that they tad to be of a certain character before they could become such people.
Q.- What, according to your opinion, was then the co-responsibility of works managers which is referred to in the order?
A.- This co-responsibility restricted and limited itself to the fact that the works manager would point out difficulties to the commanders. His duty, therefore, stopped when he made that report to the commander. According to that order, he couldn't do more than that, and he was not permitted to do more than that. Otherwise, he would have exceeded his duties as contained in that order.
Our repeated and current measures show that the commanders regarded the whole thing as an interference within their field of tasks. It is difficult to make it understandable today how powerful a commander was. I believe that in one of the documents, as intro duced by the Prosecution -- I read in one of the affidavits by some sort of an investigator of the SS tribunals, that the commanders were the most powerful human beings, and they were the ones who could decide on life or death.
Q.- Therefore, witness, you are only confirming what the witness Bickel said?
A.- Yes, all I do is confirm it. The commanders possessed an arrogance, the degree of which could be found only very seldom. And, as most of the time they had a high rank -- as a matter of fact, a much higher rank than I had -- they also tried to remind me of it, and whenever they wanted to do something really special they would simply interrupt a conference in a military way.
Q.- Herr Mummenthey, just a moment ago you spoke about the individual measures which you carried out in order to better the food and clothing situation for the inmates, and I don't believe I have to talk about it any more. I would also appreciate it however if you would tell the Tribunal, something about the hygienic measures and sanitation within their place of work.
A.- As far as the sanitation in the camps was concerned, I believe it was in '41 or '42 that there were quite a few difficulties at the beginning, when the camps were being established. According to my recollection there were large epidemics at that time which attacked not only inmates but SS members as well. Quarantines were initiated in the camp, and for months and months sometimes. Of course, we did hear about those things, particularly since inmates did not come to the plant. During that period of time the plant was more or less idle. I also believe that the largest death rate which existed originated in those epidemics.
Q.- Did you ever receive any reports about deaths which occurred in both the enterprises and in the camps?
A.- No, neither in the camps nor in the enterprises, and in the monthly reports, as introduced by the plants which we received, we never did read any such things. I can't recall any such incident. I only know that in the monthly reports we did have certain figures concerning accidents in the plants and how they had been taken care of. But those accidents in the plants were investigated very carefully, and most of the time by investigators of the union, the workers' union. For example, the stone chiselers union or the brick workers union.
Q.- May I ask you a short question in this connection, witness. The witness Schwarz testified that the inmates were not insured against accidents, is that correct?
A.- The witness Schwarz is not a lawyer. Therefore, he didn't deal with those matters at the time, and I believe he is wrong in this connection. The inmates were insured as far as accidents were concerned, and they were insured on a double basis. First of all, they were insured according to a law which existed for the treatment of inmates, which law was then amended in 1936, or later on. It was also extended to the concentration camp inmates. As far as the inmates who were working in our enterprises, they were automatically insured against accidents with the workers' unions. They received a special contribution slip every year where the payments made to the Reich were contained, and they were used as a basis for the computation of contributions.
Q.- Therefore, it worked out this way, that these inmates were insured both in the brick factory as well as in the camp?
A.- Yes, quite so.
Q.- You were speaking about the hygienic situation of sanitation in the working place -
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q.- Before you leave the question of insurance, do you mean that if an inmate was injured while he was at work that he himself received the benefit of some insurance?
A.- According to my opinion, yes. In any case we always filled out those forms as prescribed, and they went to the Main Administration office to either the Kommandantur, the Kommando, of that camp or then from there they were sent to the RSHA, when they were dealt with. The workers' union then contacted the RSHA or the Kommandantur, respectively.
I remember of an accident in Oranienburg which occurred in 1944 where an inmate was severely injured. I believe I happened to be there at the time when the investigators of the Workers' union came. The accident occurred in the morning, and in the afternoon the investigators were already there investigating the case. They took a record, and the entire matter was then further dealt with by other circles.
Q.- What happened? Who was paid any money?
A.- The man was severely injured and, therefore, he couldn't carry out any further work. The workers' union then paid him a pension. We received the figure as to how high the pension was, a copy of the figure.
Q.- Was this man an inmate of a concentration camp?
A.- Yes, indeed, your Honor.
Q.- And he actually received, through a labor organization, some money by reason of his injuries?
A.- Yes; because the accident had occurred in our plant, and he was the one who was suffering from it.
Q.- Well, you spoke of the workers' union. Were the workers in the concentration camps organized?
A.- Your Honor, that is a term as used in German insurance law; the compulsory insurance in enterprises for the individual branches is called "workers' union." This is a special term.
Q.- In English it is more like Group insurance.
A.- No, your Honor; it is more of a professional guild. It is insurance from the part of the enterprise.
Q.- And it includes every one in that guild or in that profession?
A.- Yes.
Q.- It is still group insurance.
What nationality was this man that was severely injured you mentioned a moment ago?
A.- According to my recollection, he was a German, Your Honor.
Q.- Well, did these insurance benefits extend to non-Germans?
A.- There was no difference made.
Q.- You mean if a Russian was injured in a plant so that he couldn't work he received money from the insurance?
A.- He should have received it because he was insured with our company.
Q.- Well, he was entitled to the money; whether he got it or not, he should have it -- the Russian, I mean?
A.- Yes, he should have received it through that professional guild which would then contact the RSHA, and he would receive it, of course, just like any other prisoner who was under arrest by order of a Justice Department order.
BY DR. FROESCHMAN:
Q Herr Mummenthey, do you know if the wives of such inmates who had suffered an accident in the plant would receive the pension directly, even if the man would still remain in the concentration camp or if he was in a hospital?
A That I couldn't tell you. I don't know how it was worked out.
Q Well, then, after this interesting talk we had in between, let's come back to hygenic measures which you carried out. I am now thinking of the following: Did you see to it that the food was served properly?
A Yes, I could use a small example here which could be extended to the other plant also. In the stone works in Oranienburg I had ordered on the basis of my observations that all the tables had to be set free at noon so that the inmates could sit and eat. They also made certain small stools where they could sit down and eat their meals. As far as the inmates were working outside in the open air are concerned, a special hall was constructed where the inmates could consume their food while sitting and place their dishes on the table. The food was brought in special containers from the camp and was carried by trucks, and I really couldn't say that it was no longer hot or warm, because I personally saw hot steam was coming out of those containers when the food was served.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Dr. Froeschmann, haven't you covered that subject? You told us not only about the food being warm, but that there was stew, what was in the stew. Yesterday he told us all that.
DR. FROESCHMANN: Yes, yes, Witness, I believe we don't want to know all those things in detail. I just want to ask you a few more things.
Q (BY DR. FROESCHMANN: Did you write any applications and letters for those inmates and did you get than too?
A Yes. -
Q I mean, "yes", or "no".
A Yes, yes.
Q Did the inmates, when they were released, when you finally succeeded in releasing them from the concentration camp and bringing them back to civilian life, did you give them any certificates or letters of recommendation and what was their reaction to that?
AAfter the release of the inmates, and I mean also releases which did not take place according to our suggestion, there were all sorts of applications to work, and requests asking us to write a certificate, a certificate concerning their activity. Although a working contract did not exist between the enterprises and the individual inmates, I ordered the works management to write out those certificates in order to help the individual in his career.
Q Did you in Mauthausen take certain measures for the delousing of the inmates? How did it work out there?
A In 1944, we received a letter from the firm of Messerschmitt, according to which their civilians and the inmates were lousy. It occured suddenly they had turned in applications to the commanders, the works-managers, and they finally decided to interpolate me also. I immediately called for the works managers, also the commanders, and I heard that the possibility of elimination of lice was not given at the moment. They needed a special installation, which installation had not yet been created, whereupon I immediately contacted the organization "Todt" in Berlin and tried to get such equipment, but then again there were difficulties, but anyway, we succeeded in getting those machines and we brought them by truck to Mauthausen. The whole bad situation was eliminated immediately.
Q Witness, will you take a look at the last document, which is Exhibit 121, and which is Document NO-2318, as contained in Document Book V on page 13. This is an order by Pohl, dated the 26th of June, 1942, concerning the increased guarding of inmates and PW's. What do you have to say to the Tribunal about this. Was this carried out or not?
A No, it was not. I was always of the opinion that we were not competent for the guards and, therefore, we didn't have to deal with it, because we couldn't judge any actions and plants received their respective orders. May I again speak of the PW's in this connection?
Q Yes, please do.
A I already stated that with one exception, namely where PW's were employed in Bohemia who were taken out of Stalag, I simply did not know that PW's were working, but in St. Georgen, it had been planned on one occasion that Russian PW's should be trained as stone chiselors. When I was in the plants, I didn't see any PW's myself. When the witness Bickel said that there were PW's for a certain period of time, I can't deny that. I didn't see them myself, nor do I know that they were there. If they were there, they were probably working in the brick factory, therefore, not in armament. Had I heard of any cases where prisoners of war were working amongst the inmates and they were working in inmate garb, I would have assumed that they were sent to a camp by virtue of an exceptional violation or a special warrant and they were committed to a concentration camp, and had lost their status as PW's in the concentration camp for that period of time. As far as I can recall, the witness Bickel testified to something similar. Had I ever seen any PW's working in the plants in uniform or if anything of the kind had been reported to me, of course, immediately, I would have inquired about the system where the prisoners of war had come from, why they had been sent to a concentration camp, etc. etc., and how they were being employed.
Q That is all you can say, is it, Witness? Now, Herr Mummenthey, the last question, the last question in this connection. Did you also have roll call eliminated?
A We worked again and again to have those roll calls eliminated and we banged our heads against that hard wall, but still we did succeed after a few years to have them eliminated completely.
Q Does the same apply to marching forth and marching back?
A Wherever we found a possibility to do so, we did, particularly by establishing small billets for the inmates immediately in the plant. I would say that we finally succeeded in eliminating roll call.
DR. FROESCHMANN: Your Honor, I have to speak about the SS now. However I think it is an opportunity to call a recess.
THE PRESIDENT: Let me ask you just one question before recessing.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q How many DEST plants were engaged in making war material?
A Flossehbuerg, St. Georgen with plane parts, Oranienburg with hand grenades, and Rothau was working with the taking apart of airplane motors. I do not know if you can call that part of armament activities. I believe so.
Q And in those plants that you just mentioned inmates were employed?
A Yes.
Q And foreign inmates were employed?
A Yes, quite so.
THE PRESIDENT: All right, now we will recess.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess for 15 minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. FICHT (For Defendant Klein): Your Honor, I would like to request that the Defendant Klein be excused this afternoon from this courtroom in order to prepare his defense.
THE PRESIDENT: The Defendant Klein will be excused.
BY DR. FROESCHMANN:
Q Witness, now I am coming to the last chapter of my presentation of evidence.
A May I mention two things before we begin with the last chapter? Judge Musmanne asked me yesterday about the procurement of tobacco, and I would like to make a detailed statement about that now. First of all the inmates repeatedly requested, just like all persons who are in confinement, that they would like to smoke. A second important reason, however, was that I had heard from the plant managers that a large number of inmates, in order to obtain tobacco, would exchange their food rations, in order to get tobacco. In order to prevent this we procured tobacco, to a very large extent, and we distributed it.
With respect to the question about the release of inmates, I want to say that this point was within our training program of skilled workers. As far as I can recall we made more than one hundred requests. First of all we tried it with the commandants through the plant managers. Since frequently we were unsuccessful in doing this I turned to the Office D-I. However, I must make the observation here that the commandants, and also the Office D-I, did not like to deal with these requests. They usually disapproved them, and they did not treat them in their positive sense. I then approached the RSHA directly, and I approached the exports there by going around the official channels. In a Prosecution document, I think it is NO-1553, Exhibit 69, the Office D-I particularly makes reference to this activity in which we engaged. In some cases I was personally - the people tried to hold me personally responsible for the behavior of an inmate after his release, and it was stated that I was responsible for the actions of the inmate, as, for example, the Witness Bickel has described.
I must state on the whole that I shall never forgot in my life the happy faces of the inmates when I was able to tell them they would be released. This compensated for much annoyance and much trouble I had had. This knowledge always made me carry out increased efforts to have releases carried out. Unfortunately I also had failures in that respect. I was only sorry that I was unable to carry out these releases to a larger extent, in having the inmates released who had worked with us for a long time and had become skilled now and had always obeyed the regulations with regard to the work. One reason for the RSHA may have been that especially during the war the release of inmates could only be carried out under some very special circumstances. From this point of view we must consider the facts when judging what was achieved. On the whole we must consider the particular situation at that time when we carried out this activity. What we did with regard to food, billets and accommodations for the inmates, what we were able to do for the inmates. When some outsider looks at it afterwards it my only seem that it was very little. However, we also have to consider that this work had to be carried out against overwhelming obstacles. We were ordered to employ inmates in our plants. However, we were not given the right to make the lives of those inmates so bearable as we would like to. The authority for that was with other agencies, and I had no decisive influence on these agencies.
In the course of war when I made representations to the commanders and to Office Group D, and when I protested to the inspector, I was frequently reproached with the fact when they told me , "Just look at the troops at the front, and look at the population in the bombed areas. You can't go too far with the demands which you are constantly making of us."
From the difficulties which arose from the organization of the WVHA we also had to deal with the difficulties caused by the war.
That made our attempts very difficulty. I have already mentioned that food and clothing we could only obtain when We ignored economic regulations, and therefore we carried out a civil offense, and we were lucky that we were not caught doing this.
The witness Bickel has confirmed here, and affidavits by other witnesses and other former collaborators which my defense counsel will submit will show my constant efforts in that field. If all that I have done did not have any value, then I don't know what else I could have done. I do believe that I have carried out efforts wherever I could. I did not spare my person. I neglected everything just in order to fulfill that task because it was close to my heart, and because I had a deep sympathy with these people who now happened to have been committed to this camp.
Your Honor, may it please the Tribunal, it has once been said in history, and I can repeat it here literally, "Here I stand, I could not act otherwise." That is the pure truth.
Q Well, Mr. Mummenthey, I can understand it why you summed up your point of view once more, and now I would like to come to Count IV of the indictment where in connection with your membership in the SS and your membership in the party and the resulting ideology of Anti-Semitism, here you are charged with crimes against humanity. I don't want to hear anything from you as it has been mentioned already many times in the course of this trial that you had Jewish acquaintances or friends, and that perhaps one of your ancestors happened to be Non-Aryan. Is it Correct that in the house of your parents the Jewish question did not play any part whatsoever? Is it true that you were educated along the lines of the Protestant religion wherein you considered the Jews to be human beings just like any other people who lived in Germany at the time, is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q I then go on to ask you-
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Counsel, you said you would not discuss the fact that one of his ancestors was Non-Aryan. Well, by merely saying that you have only aroused curiosity, and we haven't heard about a Jewish brother-in-law for quite a long time, so it would be interesting to find out just whom he did have among his ancestors who was Jewish. I presume that is what you mean. As far as I am concerned, I am curious to know. One question, one answer, who was in his family tree that was Semitic?
Q (BY DR. FROESCHMANN) I shall comply with the question by the Tribunal and I am now asking you to answer with yes or no.
A No, I don't know anything about it.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Oh.
Q (BY DR. FROESCHMANN) During the war did you hear any rumors to the effect that evacuations and deportations of Jews to the east were carried out?
A Yes, I heard that by way of rumors.
Q Did you participate in the excesses against the Jews in November, 1938?
A No. At the time I lived in Berlin not very far from the office. When I went to work in the morning I heard that these incidents had occurred during the night. They have already been mentioned here on several occasions. At noontime I went to Nuernbergerstrasse and there I saw the smashed-in windows.
Q Did Dr. Salpeter initiate any investigation at the time?
A Dr. Salpeter at the time was the chief of the house, and he determined whether any members of the agency had participated in these excesses. A record was taken on the subject, and I know that nobody from our office participated.
Q What attitude did you take with regard to the so-called Party Program and the Nuernberg Laws, and the literature about the Jews?
A I only had to occupy myself with these things as far as it was necessary to pass the various examinations when questions were asked about that.
Q As far as you know the aims of the SS from the General-SS, did they contain any points in the Program about the extermination of Jews?
A No.
Q Were you a fanatical National Socialist?
A I always considered myself to be a good German, but I never considered myself to be a fanatical National Socialist. I don't think that others can say that about me.
Q Mr. Mummenthey, the prosecution has stated the program against the Jews from three points of view. First of all, according to the activities of the Einsatzgruppe, the SD; two, according to the question of deportation for purposes of extermination; and three, according to the utilization of Jewish labor. What did you have to do with point one, the Einsatzgruppe, the action of the SD, and deportation into extermination camps?
A I had nothing to do with it.
Q Did you hear anything about the committing of Jews into camps so that they could be exterminated?
A No.
Q Herr Mummenthey, I now remind you that according to the opinion of your witness Bickel every man in Germany had knowledge of the fact or if he didn't know anything that he didn't want to know anything about it.
He just closed his ears. Did you consider this opinion of Bickel's to be absolutely objective and correct, or did you consider it to be his personal opinion?
A I think that was strictly his personal opinion. I know from discussions with several inmates after the collapse that the inmates in the camps apparently had excellent receivers and transmitters. And from this, perhaps, in many cases they were by far better informed than the persons who lived outside the camp. After all, outside the camp a lot of spying was being done, and I know that I personally was being watched by the SD. I know that from a matter which pertained to my colleague Schwarz. He made statements on one occasion, and I had to help him in an investigation; and then I heard all of us were being watched by the so-called V-Men. I think this stands for"Vertrauensmaenner", the informers. We had SD in our own ranks.
Q Was it really correct that the mass of the German people did not have any knowledge of these horrible atrocities in the concentration camp?
A No, the mass did not know anything about it. Just how far the knowledge goes, I can't say. That depends on the individual case.
Q Did you have any knowledge of it?
A No.
Q In spite of your seeming connection with concentration camps and your proximity there?
A I have already stated that the commanders and the staff considered me to be their enemy, and they certainly wouldn't convey any secrets to such a person.
Q In the course of this trial the words "Action Reinhardt" and "Reinhardt Fund" has been used repeatedly. And in particular the DEST has been connected insofar as the loan from the Gold Discount Bank was granted. And all these loans were to have come from the Reinhardt Fund through the knowledge of DEST.
What do you know about that?
A Two loans by the German Gold Discount Bank were granted in 1939 and 1941. As I have seen from an affidavit of the prosecution, the repayments were made in 1942, I think.
Q Did you still maintain the testimony -
THE PRESIDENT: Was there an error in the translation?
DR. PRACHT (Assistant to defense counsel Dr. Froeschmann): Your Honor, in the turning in of the gold, there was a mistake. It should be turning in of the gold rather than repayment.
THE PRESIDENT: What was the mistake?
DR. PRACHT: In the translation he said repayment, it should actually be the turning in.
BY DR. FROESCHMANN:
Q Do you still maintain your testimony, or do you want to change it in anyway, or do you want to limit it to any extent? I am now referring to the statement regarding the utilization of labor in DEST.
A It only came to my knowledge in the office of Auschwitz that some female Jewish inmates were employed in Herzogenbusch in the diamond cutting plant. Jews were to work the machines if the machines had ever been installed.
Q Herr Mummenthey, just how did it happen that you became a member of the SS and the Party?
A When in 1934 I was the Court Referendar at the district court, my chief at the time told me that if I was not a member of the Party, then at least I should be a member of one of its organizations. After all, what should he put down in my personal file with regard to my political activity. He suggested that I should enter the SS for the reason the he was in charge of the Reiter Troop there, and the members of this troop were composed of the Riding Club which had existed there before on a provincial level. I agreed with this suggestion. What I heard about the aims of the SS afterwards did not cause me to be sorry about having made that agreement.
The people whom I met in the course of the next few years for a large part were idealists, and they were exemplary in their attitude. When I went to Munich in 1938 to the Administrative Office, I was an SS-Unterscharfuehrer in the Reiter SS. I remained in the Reiter Sturm at Leipzig where I was active for the district court at the time.
Q How was it that you joined the SS-Verfuegungstruppe?
AAfter some time had passed in Munich, Dr. Salpeter asked me whether I would like to enter the SS Reiter-Sturm until I became 45 years of age. I turned this down because it did not agree with my aims which I pursued in my profession. Then Dr. Salpeter transferred me from the Reiter-Sturm at Leipzig to the SS at Munich. He furthermore saw to it that my rank in the General SS was assimilated to the rank which was held by an assessor in the Wehrmacht. Thus it happened that in the course of time, on the 20th of April 1939 I became a Hauptsturmfuehrer, and then in 1940 I became Sturmbannfuehrer.
Q And now you had been transferred into the SS Special Duty Squads, the Verfuegungstruppe?
A No, I did not enter the SS Special Duty Squads, but I was in the General SS. The members of the SS with whom I had come into contact since 1939 were for the most part lawyers. This condition did not change when I came to DEST. Furthermore, this enterprise at the time had mainly civilian employees. We had to deal with innumerable private firms, and actually I was not moving around in the so-called SS Circle, and I was there much less than any other member of the WUHA. The DEST did not deal with SS matters for the most part, but dealt with industrial and economic matters. What I saw and heard about the Waffen SS did not cause me to consider it to be a criminal organization. I talked with a large number of members of the German Wehrmacht, and all of them talked very respectfully about the Waffen-SS. My own brother was with the Wehrmacht during the war. With his unit he was stationed next to units of the Waffen-SS for some time.
Despite the fact that he was critical of the Waffen-SS, he never told me anything which would lead me to assume that the Waffen-SS had a criminal character. In the year of 1940, since I had served with the Wehrmacht, I received an order to report to a Rifle Battalion, and I received that from the Army Corps Area, Berlin-Wilmersdorf.
I submitted this order to report for military service to Dr. Salpeter, and he told me that this was completely out of the question. He told me that a different settlement would be reached, and then he saw to it that I was conscripted into the Waffen-SS. At the same time I was put on detached service in order to work for the DEST. The rank which I held in the Waffen-SS was that of an SS-private. Later on in the Waffen-SS, we had, I know, the institution the S-Fuehrers, the Special Fuehrers who were experts in their particular fields. I then became a Hauptsturmfuehrer. Then I became a Sturmbannfuehrer-F, the designation of specialist. The "F" indicated that this particular person worked in a special field. On the 9th of November 1943, I was terminated as a Sturmbannfuehrer-F, and I was appointed an Obersturmbannfuehrer in the Reserve of the Waffen-SS. At that time, the action was explained to me to mean that a promotion to Obersturmbannfuehrer-F was not possible according to the regulations prevailing, and therefore this method was choosen.
In the Waffen-SS I did not receive basic training, and I did not participate in any Officer's Candidate Training.
Court No. II, Case No. IV.
In my opinion, my conscription into the Waffen-SS was to serve the following purposes. One, persons who worked in the economic field were not to be subjected to the jurisdiction of the SS; two, these people were to be declared indespensable in this way. That is to say, this was to prevent their being conscripted by any other military agencies. Three, this measure served the purpose in order to take the possibility away from these persons to give notice that they wanted to discontinue their work.
Q. Witness, I would like to ask you a few questions very briefly which result from the verdict of the I.M.T. They contained the criteria from which the I.M.T. has declared the SS to be a criminal organization.
I now want to ask you, did you have any knowledge of the fact that units of the SS were active participants in the steps which led the aggressive war?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any knowledge of the fact that in the occupation of the Sudetenland, and when Bohemia, Moravia and Memel were occupied, that these were aggressive acts?
A. No; we weren't told about that at the time.
Q. Did you have any knowledge of the free corps of Henlein as the National German Agency?
A. No, I didn't have any knowledge of that.
Q. Did you have any knowledge of the fact that the Waffen-SS participated in the commission of war crimes and crimes against humanity and in particular the shooting of unarmed prisoners of war, and that this was a general custom in some of the Waffen-SS divisions?
A. Only after the collapse did I hear that something like this is supposed to have happened.
Q. Did you have any knowledge of the fact that units of the SS were ordered to carry out plans of Germanization in the Occupied Territories, that they carried out the deportation of Jews and other foreign nationals, and that they participated in the generally practiced murder and mal-treatment of civilian persons in the Occupied Territories?