The camp medical officer did not give orders to his subordinates, but he hinted to them that they had received a reproach that there were too many inmates incapable of working. These subordinate, SS-non-commissioned offices, now on their own initiative, exterminated inmates who were in the dispensary, sick, exhausted without regard to the labor conditions. Here we had two SS non-commissioned officers by the name of Bahr and Boening. Both of them have been hung. First of all, they would personally select the inmates, and then tey injext phenol into the hearts of these inmates. Then when there was a shortage of phenol, they would inject gasoline into the hearts of the inmates. The man Bahr developed a fantastic technique. Whenever he killed the inmates by these injections, he even succeeded in killing inmates just by injecting water into the inmates; and he would inject this water into the back of the neck. Boening worked on a different method. He worked from the back, injecting the water into the heart of the inmates. These things were certainly kept secret, and I only heard about them when I was in the hospital, and I had contacts with the inmates who worked in the dispensary. All these things only came to the knowledge of the important SS leaders later on.
Q Now, Mr. Bickel, isn't it true that the concentration camp Newengamme was very small at the time the Klinker Works of DEST was established in 1940?
A Yes, that is correct. It is not true that the concentration camp Neuengamme was first established and then the DEST. As far as the time factor is concerned, was can say the following. At Neuengamme there was a former Brick Works, and because of bankruptcy it had been ceased working. The DEST had purchased these Brick Works so that a new plant could be established in the vicinity of the old Brick Works. Originally, already in 1938, an outside detail of inmates had been assigned to the Old Brick Works which came from the concentration camp Neuengamme. Two years later, the camp was built in the area of the DEST.
The "efficiency" of the concentration camp went to the effect that he wanted to extend the camp so that it would by far exceed the original purpose established. The plant was just to serve as a place where the inmates could be taken who worked in the Klinker Works. So now other plants were constructed in that area, and during the war even, arament factories were established. Then a branch of the aramament factory, Walter Zella-Mehlis, was established under the code name of the Motal Works at Neuengamme. Then we had a factory there which would manufacture fuses for hand grenades. It was called Messer. It also used inmates. All these firms were private firms and had nothing to do with the general complex.
Q But isn't it true, Mr. Bickel, that one of the reasons for establishing the Neuengamme concentration camp was in order to operate and enlarge the Klinker Works there?
A Yes, that is correct. That is what I have just described.
Q And weren't there also other industries controlled by Amtsgruppe W of the WVHA in Newengamme, such as the DAW?
A Yes. the DAW was a competition firm of the Klinker Works. They were also located in the camp, but in a different sector.
Q Where was the DAW building? What were they manufacturing?
A The DAW produced various items, and as the name implies, they manufactured equipment for the SS. In Neuengamme, primarily wooden materials were produced -- tables, wall closets, weaving chairs, etc. Furthermore, cloth was produced, worsted was produced there, and they manufactured a special kind of upholstery, and then there were floor mats and things of that sort.
Q Now, as I recall, My. Bickel, you testified that beginning around 1938 or '39 that because of a shortage of inmates to perform work, that the Gestapo began arresting and committing persons to the concentration camp without any reason whatever, is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q And that continued up until the end of the war?
A During the war these actions were not carried out from the sense of justice, but they had apparent reason in the measures which were caused by the war. For example, on one occasion an action was under way, the so-called Keitel Decree. It was called Nacht und Nebel (Night and fog). Here first of all, we were dealing with foreign inmates, and these people were brought into various concentration camps. They could not have any contact with their family, and they were treated especially bad. Later, there was another action in Denmark where the entire Danish police were brought to Neuengamme and part of them were sent to Buchenwald. In 1944 there was another action, -- I only give examples here -- where all the Norwegian students were arrested and sent to Neuengamme. These actions were ordered by the RSHA without any consideration for the fact that labor was needed everywhere. Reasons of work were not important. The Wehmacht and RSHA in many cases worked together. For example, in the Nacht und Nebel Decree, which was originated by Keitel.
Q Well, yes, witness, we are familiar with those actions to some extent here, and I think that we will all agree that persons were committed to concentration camps for a variety of reasons; but as I have understood your testimony, you have stated that a number of persons were committed primarily for the purpose of being made available for labor, for work, isn't that correct?
A Yes, that is correct. This was done, since the SS Administration which handled the lives of inmates, of course, could not admit that they could not supply the industry any more with the necessary Labor because too many of them had died. All the SS agencies were very strict in observing secrets. They did not allow anybody to look at the figures. During these years which we are discussing here, in '38 and '39, there was a very fierce competition between the RSHA and its agencies and the agencies of the main office Economy and Administration. The figures of the dead in the RSHA did not become known to the economic enterprises, and normally speaking, they could not become known to the economic enterprises.
In order to meet the requirements of labor allocation -- at that time Standartenfuehrer Mauer was in charge of that, who was working between the Main Office Administration and Economy and the RSHA -- and he knew precisely by virtue of the capacity of the plant, just how many inmates he needed. However, he also saw just how many inmates were actually not there.
Now Maurer occupied a chief position here and the men in the RSHA liked it very much since they were trying to claim the superiority of the Nordic race, and they wanted to exterminate the people who did not fit into the Nordic, superior race, and they wanted to see these people enter the concentration camps. Therefore, the desire to obtain labor had a very fertile ground here. The way in which this action was carried out did not have any influence on the economic sector of the SS. Here, everything was handled by the people around Heydrich.
THE PRESIDENT: Try to control your witness, Mr. McHaney. I think you can do it.
BY MR. McHANEY:
Q Mr. Bickel, are you familiar with the construction work carried out by Amtsgruppe C of the WVHA?
A I don't know what construction work you are referring to.
Q Well, do you know whether or not the SS had construction gangs, that is, construction brigades, working in Neuengamme?
A Yes-
Q That is sufficient. Now, did those construction birgades assist in the establishment, the building, of the Klinker works at Neuengamme?
A No, that was another point to show just how the SS worked against each other. The SS had its own construction brigades. This was called construction management of the Police and the SS. The management was located at Berlin Zehlendorf, on Karlstrasse -- but I don't know the number any more. The branch office Neuengamme of the construction management was next to the DAW, and both agencies were located in the same barracks. Of course, it would have been logical that the construction management of the SS should have collaborated with the economic enterprises. They should have been even consolidated since, after all, the economics enterprises of the SS had to deal so much with construction matters of the firms; and here in these circles construction experts and technicians existed to such a large number.
However, some SS-man was in charge here, who watched zealously that he would not lose authority, but he wanted to increase it. Things went so far that at Neuengamme, the biggest dispute arose between the Klinker Works on the one hand and the construction management on the other hand. The construction management did not even want to purchase its stones and construction material from us.
Q Mr. Bickel, when I ask you the question, just give us a short answer and then, if I want any explanation, to clarify it for the Tribunal or for myself, I will ask you for it.
Now, did this construction brigade, to your knowledge, have anything to do with the construction of the crematorium in Neuengamme? Yes or No?
A The crematorium at Neuengamme was constructed by the Central Construction Management of the Police and SS at Neuengamme. The headquarters at Neuengamme ordered this construction to be carried out. The crematorium before that time was a so-called double-field crematorium, and here we had two mobile crematorium from the field. They had been surrounded by a large layer of pieces of grass and it worked until the year of 1943 -- or early 1944. In 1944 the big crematorium was built and it had not been quite completed until 1945. We began to operate it first in 1944 but it was to receive two more stoves. I have photographs of that crematorium at my disposal.
Q Well, let's pass that for the moment. Now, will you tell me briefly how many inmates were working in the Klinker Works at Neuengamme?
A The number of inmates in the Klinker Works at Neuengamme varrie. During the construction period we had approximately 150 men, and the maximum figure was approximately 1200. Then the construction work went down to approximately 150 men. When the number of inmates in construct ion work decreased the working detachments came into action.
In the camp itself we had from approximately 600 to 700 inmates.
We can reach the average figure of 800 men. On some occasions, when some special order was issued, a thousand people may have worked there. The figure of the inmates constantly decreased because the plant became increasingly mechanized.
Q Now, you mentioned that there were a few Jews at Neuengamme. in 1942 or 43. Did you have any Jews at Neuengamme?
A In the Klinker Works of Neuengamma we could only keep very few Jews, and we had several experts. Amongst them we had an expert in glass and I told him to take off his Jewish star so that we could be able to hide him in this way. Normally, no Jew could be employed in the plant. The Jews were either in the punitive detachment, as I stated this morning, or they were engaged in some other work. Occasionally, in 1940, or perhaps in 1941, Jews came for a very short period of time. However, we did not keep them as permanent workers, with the exception of this one glass expert.
In 1942, when the order was issued that all Jews were to be deported from Neuengamme, he also had to go.
Q Were there any prisoners of war employed in the Klinker Works at Neuengamme?
A Prisoners of war arrived in August, 1941. They were used for work which had to be carried out in the scope of the Klinker Works. They were used in order to construct a clay pit. However, they were not assigned to the detachment working at the Klinker plant. And here we were only dealing with a project which employed Soviet prisoners of war.
About the labor assignment of the Soviet prisoners of war a decision was to be reached later on. However, a clear decision was not reached anymore because the quarantine period started, and of the 1200 prisoners of war who had come to the camp, only approximately 200 were left. The remainder again was returned to prisoner of war camps, early in 1942. The prisoners of war were kept separately from us in the camp, and they were subjected to special treatment ordered by the RSHA and the SD.
They were treated so brutally that even the inmates-although we did not have very much, and although we could not be to comradely as a result of our bad condition -- would share the little food we had with the Russian prisoners of war.
I assume that the Tribunal will doubt the truth of my words. It is incomprehensible that a civilized nation will treat prisoners of war like that, but the food consisted of raw unpeeled potatoes and unpeeled beets. They were boiled together. There would be 95 percent water and five percent beets.
That is what the Russians received for lunch. In the morning each of them received approximately half a cup of coffee and one little piece of bread through which you "could see the light." That was their food.......
Their accommodations were actually nil. They were kept in a wooden barracks, and one even refused to give them a little straw or hay which would even be given an animal. They had no straw or any wood-shavings from which they could fashion a bed....They had nothing whatsoever.
Q Now, witness, eren't the working conditions in the clay pit, for example, in the Klinker Works, extremely harsh and severe? Wasn't there water frequently in the bottom of that pit in which the inmate had to stand? Didn't they have to work there in extremely cold weather?
A The living conditions in the Klinker Works varied. I must correct myself here. I m an the working conditions. In the work itself, when compared to the other work which was done in the concentration camp, working conditions were good because here most of the people could work under a roof. A relatively high percentage of the inmates were occupied with work for which they were qualified. For example, they had to work on steam engines, or they had drying facilities and dredges and so on. There were many craftsmen there and electricians From this point of view, in the Klinker Works, as far as the other work which existed concerned, working conditions were good.
The work improved in other places as the war progressed because more and more inmates were used in the armament industries where they received work for which they were qualified, however, the work in the so-called clay pits was very heavy work. Later on the commandant selected the work in the clay pit for his private punitive detachment. Before the punitive detachment had to go into the clay pit various strong inmates were used in the clay pit. And as far as we were able to handle it, the people working in the clay pit would receive a special allotment of bread. Whenever we had some bread left over we would give it to the inmates who worked in the clay pit.
The same thing was done when lunch was distributed. They would received something extra.
Do you want me to explain that matter more closely, or can you understand it now?
Q I can understand it. I have a few more questions to ask. How many me did they have working in the clay pit normally?
A The number varied. In the clay pit itself about 30 to 40 men would be working. Whenever the clay pit was particularly large there were approximately 50 men. We could not use and more people there because -- as I have already stated -- the clay pits were distributed over the entire area wherever a layer of clay was laid bare.
Q And you actually observed the inmates working in these clay pits.
A Yes.
Q Did you notice that frequently they were standing in water without proper footwear, without boots?
A The inmates who worked in the clay pits, as far as they were assigned to the plant, and later on as far as the punitive detachment was concerned, had the right to be given rubber shoes. And I myself tried to procure these shoes for them. The plant managers -
and Mummenthey also -- supported the idea of obtaining rubber boots for those workers. If he did not have sufficient number of them, we still had almost enough rubber boots at our disposal. Of course, according to the situation which existed in Germany, these rubber boots could not be immediately replaced. And consequently, the inmates had to run around with wet feet. That was part of the conditions which prevailed at the time.
When the punitive detachment worked in the clay p9t we also tried to obtain rubber boots for them. The sam thing applied to protective clothing.
Q Did you ever see any inmates carried out dead from their work in the claypits, and from their work there in different points of the Klinker Works?
A I saw many dead inmates. However, the work in the claypit, in order to make it a very objective statement, as long as the claypit was owned by the plant, the work-detail showed no particular increase in the mortality rate, and this was due to the following reason: In the claypit only strong people could work; only people could work there who by virtue of their profession were qualified for that sort of work. It was part of the task of the inmates who directed the classification in their work to classify people accordingly. The man who worked in a mine in civilian life, was not put at a machine, nor was he given a job in an office. That worked the other way around, also. As long as the claypit specialized in certain work, the inmates were selected accordingly. You will find strong Russian peasant boys and mining exports who know something about that work. However, when a commander later on used his punitive company, this did not apply any more, because the checkup in a punitive way varied.
Q Did they have a cage in which they put inmates who committed some dereliction while they were working? There had been some testimony here that they had a wire cage in which the guards would put the inmates who were found malingering on the job, and who had done something that was forbidden, and leaving them in there during the noon hour, particularly, I think. Do you know anything about that?
AA cage existed in the Klinker works at Neuengamme in the year of 1942. That was immediately after the period of the quarantine. Extraordinary bad living conditions existed at that time; the inmates had no food whatsoever, and at that time it occurred many times that many inmates would collapse because of exhaustion and hunger. Our first Capo by the name of Stockmar would have the inmates which were collected put in one place, and this was done for the following reason:
The inmates who were not capable of working any more, who were about ready to collapse, had a tendency to hide, because they were afraid that if they could not work they would be mistreated, or beaten to death. They would fall asleep whenever they were in hiding, or, they would die in the evening after completion of work. A rollcall would be held at the Klinker Works before the return to camp, and then a certain number of people would be missing. We had a lot of work as they had to look for the people until we had found them, and the entire camp had to stand at attention for that entire period of time, even though we had 10,000 men. Now the Capo was a very bad man. He had a cage constructed, and it was approximately as long as the Tribunal's desk, and, in depth it was a little more than the distance from the wall to the Tribunal's bench, and it was as high as the door behind the Tribunal's bench. The front of this cage was made out of meshwire. The inmates who collapsed during working hours had to be put in the cage. The Detachment Leader by the name of Bruening, who recommended or approved the suggestion by this Capo gave the permission to do that. This cage, however, was only kept for at the most fourteen days, because we opposed this measure of treating the inmates, and I don't know whether it was called to the attention of the construction manager at the time. I think it was the construction manager by the name of Korff, who stated at the time, that this could not go on, and this cage disappeared. We, personnally could not say anything against this first Capo, because it would have meant sure death for us. It would be easier to object to the Emperor than to the inmates who were in command of the detachment, especially, if they came from a lower circle of humanity.
Q Let's go into another point for awhile. Did not the defendant Mummen they know that the penal company took over the work in the claypit up to 1943?
A I don't think that he knew that. However, I can not answer this question positively with a yes or no. There is no reason to assume that he had to know it.
If he had known it, then he would not have had any cause to alleviate this condition.
Q Let's don't speculate whether or not he know, witness. All he has got to know, or to do, was to find out, was to ask his work managers there, is that right, Mr. Bickel?
A Please?
Q To find out that they were using the penal company to mine claypit, all he had to do was to ask you, for example, or a plant manager, is that right?
A Yes.
Q That is all. Now then, it is true, isn't it, that the Klinker Works was the beneficiary of the working performance by the penal company, is that true, witness?
A It did not benefit in an actual sense, because that clay had to be processed, and compensation for the inmates amounted to more if the Klinker Works could have used their own inmates for that. It was our experience that the inmates in the punitive detachment came from particular circles, and they were not so much suited for the work than the inmates whom that plant should have assigned to the claypit.
Q Just a minute, Mr. Bickel, I don't think it is necessary to discuss all of this. Isn't it true that the penal company mined the day that was used by the Klinker Works, that is true, isn't it? -
A Yes.
Q And the Klinker Works did not pay for that labor, did they?
A Yes, they did have to pay for it.
Q I understood from your testimony today that the Klinker Works had nothing to do with the penal company in a general way for that labor. Was I mistaken in that?
A Yes. The Klinker Works had nothing to do with the punitive company, but the concentration work superintendant had to submit a report of the work carried on by the inmates every month who had been furnished by this concentration camp for the claypit.
That was a very strange condition here, that the Klinker Works had to pay for the inmates labor, and actually it did not have to, because of the number of inmates employed. The entire efficiency is typical of any other bad organization.
Q Now what is your testimony concerning the average physical condition of the inmates employed in the Klinker Works. Would you testify their condition was good?
A The physical condition of the inmates in the German concentration camps was abnormally bad on an average, with the exception of a few persons who had spent many years in the camp, and they had the right contacts, and they had the preferred positions, but aside from these people, most of the inmates were undernourished.
Q And that condition existed in the Klinker Works, is that true, Mr. Bickel?
A The inmates who came from the concentration camps, were in the same average physical condition which existed in a concentration camp.
Q And is it true that a substantial number of these inmates who worked in the Klinker Works died from exhaustion, malnutrition, and lack of hygienic care in the camp?
A The number of inmates who died for these reasons was the same particular average as in our working places, and it was a little more favorable in the Klinker Works, because the average person there had a pleasant occupation. It was more pleasant than the usual work that was done in the camp.
Q But would you say that on an average, they had roughly the same percentage of deaths amongst the inmates working in the Klinker Works as they did among the inmates out in the camp, which would be estimated roughly about eighty percent a year, is that right?
A In the Klinker Works the figure amounted to a little lower, because, as I have already stated working conditions were more mechanized, and, because a large percent age of inmates could work in rooms and offices, and the Klinker Works offered an advantage to that of the concentration camps outside especially of those who had to work under the free sky.
For example, in the construction of a canal. Approximately 1250 men would work on this project, they would work from 5 o'clock in the morning until they returned to camp in the evening, and they would be subjected to exposure to the weather. Of course, the mortality rate in this detachment was much higher, and the death rate in the detachment which worked at the brick works in the furnaces, was of course, high, which was only natural.
Q Now Mr. Bickel, how often did Mummenthey visit the Neuengamme concentration camp?
A Mummenthey came into the works at Neuengamme on an average, of twice a year, at the most three times. His visits increased at the end. I believe in 1945, in this four month-period, he visited three or four times, and his visit was limited exclusively to the Klinker Plant.
Q You are prepared to testify to the Tribunal that of your own knowledge, the defendant Mummenthey did not enter the concentration camp of Neuengamme, the concentration camp proper, but restricted his visits solely to the Klinker Works. Can you swear to that, witness?
A This is a very specific question, and in order to answer it more precisely, I'll have to think it over for a moment. I can not recall that Mummenthey entered the camp at Neuengamme. He may have been in on one possible case on an occasion of an inspection of the plant managers in the Summer of 1942. It mus have existed on that day, but I don't know that exactly whether an inspection of the concentration camp took place on that particular day, otherwise, throughout the period when I was there, and when I had knowledge of the visits of Mummenthey, Mummenthey did not visit the camp where the inmates were located.
However, I know this for certain, he had entered the SS camp several times in the concentration camp Neuengamme. You must make this question fit in that part of the camp where the SS was located; that was on the left, and the part of the camp which was inhabited by the inmates was the socalled Protective Custody Camp. Mummenthey, of course, would be the guest of the commandant, and he would enter the SS Camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you have considerable more cross examination, Mr. McHaney?
Mr .McHANEY: Well, Your Honor, I am afraid it will run fifteen minutes at least. Of course, I get rather long answers, and I anticipate there will be some redirect examination, and also some re-cross examination.
THE PRESIDENT: You estimate fifteen minutes, then I estimate it thirty, and then the re-direct examination will take sometime. We will recess until Monday morning at 9:30.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will be in recess until 09:30 hours Monday morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 4 August 1947 at 0930 Hours)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Oswald Pohl, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 4 August, 1947, 0930-1630, Justice Robert M. Toms president.
THE MARSHAL: Take your seats, please.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal No. 2.
Military Tribunal No. 2 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the court.
HELMUT BICKEL - Resumed CROSS EXAMINATION - Continued BY MR. MC HANEY:
Q May it please the Tribunal, Mr. Bickel, I will remind you that you are still under oath. You have had a rest over the weekend, but I would still ask you to keep your answers very short so that we can get through with this examination in a few minutes.
I don't believe you have told us yet about the hours of work in the Klinker Works in Neuengamme. How many hours per day did the inmates work?
A The working hours varied to a considerable extent. They depended on the season. The working hours were fixed by the camp, especially with regard to the "alleged" security. For example, before dawn no inmate was allowed to leave the camp. After darkness set in the entire number of inmates had to be present in the camp. Of course the working hours were regulated accordingly; in summer the working hours were long, from six-thirty in the morning until five-thirty at night; and in winter the working hours were accordingly shorter. The working hours varied constantly. On the average, when we count the time off during the day, the working hours were between nine and twelve hours.
Q How much time did they get off for lunch?
A The lunchtime varied also. In winter, when the working hours were shorter, lunch time amounted to twenty or thirty minutes. In summertime it sometimes lasted as long as one hour. When, in summer time, we would have so-called "breakfast" we would eat something on those occasions, and in this connection I want to say that the length of these breaks varied. There were times when there were no breaks at all, and there were times when breaks were called in.
Q Now, as I understand it, the breakfast and evening meals were eaten in the camp, while the noon meal was eaten on the job, is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q Did the inmates have to stand rollcall in the morning before they went out on the job?
A In the morning, after reveille, and reveille was between four or six o'clock in the morning, according to the season, the inmates had to clean up as quickly as possible. Then they would receive the soup for breakfast--and its quality varied. After that there would be a rollcall. After the rollcall the details would move out for work.
The noon meal was distributed at the plant, and supper, at night, was issued in the camp after the details had returned from their work.
Then there would also be a rollcall in the evening before the supper was issued. The meals at night "varied considerably", to put it politely.
Q Then there were two rollcalls a day. How long did the rollcalls normally last?
A The morning rollcall was carried out rather quickly, generally. In spite of that it would last between a half hour and three-quarters of an hour. The evening rollcall depended on the temperament of the concentration camp guards. There were evening rollcalls which, in the best cases, lasted for half an hour. I have seen one evening rollcall last for thirty-six hour se-thirty six hours, that is one and a half days.
Q And the inmates had to stand outside in the open during these rollcalls, did they not?
A The inmates would have to stand in the open in the concentration camp at the square where the rollcalls were held.
At the Klinker Works the rollcall would be carried out in a room.
Q What do you mean that at the Klinker Works the rollcall would be carried out in a room? I understood they had a rollcall in the morning, before they went to work, and a rollcall in the evening when they came back from work. Now you mentioned a third rollcall. What was that?
A Besides these two rollcalls in the camp, we also had three rollcalls daily within the plant. These three rollcalls in the plant were carried out for the purpose of showing the man in charge of the detail from the concentration camp so he could be convinced three times a day that the number of inmates was still present in the camp, and that no inmate had escaped. These rollcalls at the plant took place as soon as a detail arrived at the plant in the morning. Then at noon, before the noon meal was issued, and then in the evening before the detail returned from the plant to the camp. Altogether, we would have five rollcalls a day.
Q Witness, isn't it true that each work detail had to check back in the camp in the evening with the same number of inmates that composed the detail that went out in the morning?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q And isn't it true that if certain of the inmates of a particular detail died or were killed during the course of the day on the job, then the remainder of the detail had to carry their dead inmates in to the rollcall place in the camp so that the dead could be counted in too?
A That is correct. For the guards of the concentration camp there was no difference between live inmates and dead inmates. It made no difference to them as long as the correct figures were given; whether these people were dead or alive did not make any difference at all.
Q Now, Mr. Bickel, how many days a week did the inmates work in the Klinker Works?
A In the period of time up to 1942 there was a general regulation that there would not be a Sunday for the inmates. The time off on Sunday was an institution for the free persons at liverty and it was not for the people who were excluded from the national community. After 1942, in line with the advantages which were now given to the inmates, at least half a Sunday had to be given off for the inmates. The concentration camp commander was obliged to give this time off to the inmates. After that period of time only a very small number of inmates would be working in the plant on Sunday and they had to carry out constant work like, for example, operate the steam enginese, etc. They had to take care of furnaces and things like that. This work was extremely essential. However, this did not make any difference because when you were exempted from working in the plant, then the concentration camp commander was sure to find som possibility of keeping the inmates busy on Sunday for work of a personal nature. To what extent the camp leader and the camp commandant would violate the regulations and they did not fulfill their duty as far as the plants were concerned.
Q Mr. Bickel, about the food, I don't want a description in detail about what the inmates received, but I would like to have a general description about the adequacies of the nourishment received by the inmates and particularly with reference to their ability to perform work in the Klinker Works on the nourishment which they received.
A The food which the concentration camp gave to the inmates was not adequate in any way. Proof of that is the extremely large number of inmates who died directly or indirectly of starvation.