started a love affair with a Jewess and that they both went for walks outside the fortifications and that some other people had also gossiped about this. In this way I wanted to show that nothing really was done against the Jews by us.
Q Now, I think we can leave the document as far as it concerns the Island of Rab and I would like to ask you something different. You previously mentioned as another important island, the island of Pac. Can you tell us quite briefly, as far as you remember, what you know about the evacuation of this island?
A Yes. Pac was occupied by us in rather the same way rather later on. I don't remember anything at all about any kind of arrest there. Also there was a Croatian administrative authority under a young Catholic priest and later on the Croatian military district Corps got into contact with our liaison officer and rounded up people who came into the question and this matter at the time wasn't speeded up and was rather delayed and so the only people who came into the question were those who wanted to work with us.
With regard to this, I would like to say one fundamental thing with reference to any kind of forced recruiting. You will understand that we had no interest in getting such elements into our own units any restless elements. For days and nights long the Croatians went around the district and when we went through the night through these terrific forces in the mountains we had to be able to rely on each other, and in this way perhaps you can judge our relations towards our Croats.
Q Now, with regard to this document, Herr Kobe, just one more question. I would like to ask you to turn to Page 14 of the photostat. Here you find a daily report of the 15th Corps, dated the 21 March 1944. Under your division, that is, the 392nd Division, there is an intention reported: "Intention hare hunt;" code name, "Lager Leben" - Camp Life. And then in brackets, "Taking into custody of 200 forced recruits in the district southeast of Brinje."
The Prosecution put this passage to General von Leyser in cross Court No. V, Case No. VII.
examination, but since it is an incident which concerns your Division I would like to ask you whether you can explain anything about this incident from your own knowledge.
A Yes. I can't remember this matter at, all any more because, from this whole report you can see that exactly at that time, in our area, fighting was going on everywhere. First of all, from a purely legal point of view, it can be clearly seen from the report that it was intended that 200 people who had been forcibly recruited should be seized; if they had been people which we had wanted to recruit forcibly, then the report would have run, "Forcible recruiting of 200 people." But with regard to the actual conditions it was exactly this area around Brinje which belonged to the most loyal Croat District of our whole area. The whole population was on the side of the Ustasha and I know that scarcely one member of any family served with the partisans and just for this reason it is quite impossible that we had wanted to carry out a forced recruiting there. Whether we were ever to release the people on the next day I really don't know.
Q I now leave this document and go over to another point of the indictment charged against General von Leyser. Perhaps from your knowledge you can say something with regard to the charge. The charge against General von Leyser in one point is based on the fact that he sent civilians to forced labor in the Reich. I haven't been able to find any documents about this at all or any within the sphere of your division about this.
Witness, what do you know about whether, during the sphere of your division, forced recruitment of Croatian civilian population for deportation into the Reich was carried out?
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
A I don't remember any kind of forced deportation from Croatia at all and as far as I know we never sent away involuntary workers. At any rate it wasn't our job but I talked with people in our area who were on leave, that is, they were voluntary workers from Croatia who worked in Germany and who had a leave pass to go home and they reported to me very proudly about their leave and showed me their leave certificate and once when I was for a short time in our main wound station our medical orderly was also a young Croat who told me with great enthusiasm about his stay in Germany.
Q And now in conclusion a few questions about the band warfare. You described to us, Herr Kobe, that you experienced from close contact the operations of your division. I would like to ask you whether you yourself took part with weapons in your hands in such band warfare?
A Yes.
Q You are perhaps the first witness here in the trial, Herr Kobel, who experienced closely and fought in the band warfare and now you have seen the Tito Partisans close up and now I would like to ask you a few details about this. Did the Tito partisans wear standard uniforms?
A No, they were very much civilian clothing and then parts of uniforms belonging to all units which appeared or even didn't appear in this area, of English and Jugoslav and Italian and, unfortunately also, German uniforms, and, then very frequently they had this Serbian cap on and mostly they wore a star or even a hammer and sickle for rex material on their caps and sometimes they even wore an emblem on their arms, but when they were in a dangerous position then often previously they tore this insignia off so that we could only see the mark which had been left from these emblems on the caps. There can be no mention at all of a standard uniform.
Q Could one say, HerrKKobe, that these Tito partisans wore an insignia which could be seen from a distance as set down by the Hague Court No. V, Case No. VII.
land warfare convention?
A No, it was like this: Four units let us, say, come into contact with the enemy in a wood and one didn't actually know what was going on, then our soldiers could hide out. I remember it distinctly, Druzi ili kollegi, that means "Are you comrades or are you communists?" and only when this was cleared up by these corps did the shooting start.
Q And now Herr Kobe you know that the Hague land warfare convention demands that a regular unit must bear its weapons openly. Was this provision also carried out by the partisans?
A Yes, with the large bands this provision was in the whole adhered to. They were their weapons openly. Of course we experienced them fighting but the Haus partisans hid their weapons and these people can only be described as pure robbers and murderers.
Q And now with regard to this point, did the partisans have a uniform leadership?
A The combat uni+s, the large bands, as far as we could establish, had no doubt a certain uniform leadership but on the other hand the haus partisans, they carried out their attacks completely independently.
Q And now a question with reference to your division, witness, for the method of fighting in your division was it very important and did it play a great part whether you were faced by regular units or whether these units could not be regarded as regular units in the sense of the Hague land warfare convention?
A No, this did not play a part. The enemy, that is, the hostile enemy, large bands, were regarded by us as a brave enemy and we treated them in this way. This can also be seen quite clearly from our reports.
Q And the last prerequisite of the Hague land warfare condition witness, is as you know, whether the unit concerned observes the laws and customs of war. Can you tell us whether this provision was also in existence on the part of the bands?
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
A No, unfortunately these provisions were not present with the large enemy bands. Nevertheless because of their otherwise brave fighting we observed this and I would not have mentioned this here at all if the Jugoslavs were not accusing us today of violation of the laws of war. Therefore, here again this is only a question of defense.
Q Herr Kobe, might I ask you perhaps your assertion that the large bands to as well as the small bands did not observe the laws and customs of war; perhaps you could give us an example of this from your own knowledge?
A Yes, in Autumn 1944 we carried out a large operation in the Kozora valley and there we intended to find the so-called Eleventh Partisan Corps. The operation was lead personally by my Divisional Commander. Through this we wanted to release a number of Italian and German prisoners which we knew were in the hands of the bands. The surprise failed and our soldiers were only able to find the fresh corpses of the murdered prisoners. As far as I remember there were about 2 dozen German and Italian prisoners and we found the corpses there on the spot and when the enemy units fought us on the passes the peaceful population who were carrying on their usual business there, they were plundered and deported and in the same way that excesses were also found by us during enemy advances into our area. Then in January 1944, or was it the beginning of February, our main dressing station which was situated in a village directly West of Bringe and which was very clearly marked. This was attacked by the Partisans and we were only able to halt them immediately before the hospital tents near Bunic about 10 kilometers from Pisac mentioned in the indictment on the map. A Lieutenant of our regiment 847th, during a retreat, was wounded. When, as the result of a shot in his leg he had to remain there; we could not take him along; his own comrades saw how members of the 35th Band Division killed him. Then a so-called operative officer of the 13th Band Division was captured by us this division got into contact with us in order to exchange this man which was of course very valuable to them and they offered us 15 German Court No. V, Case No. VII.
prisoners. We agreed to the suggestion and the exchange was carried out Northwest of Ogulin. All the exchanged people, I think 15 German soldiers, had to be treated for a vary long time in the Field Hospital. They were bare-footed and completely in rags, even without their former uniforms. I, myself, spoke with some of them and they told ma that they had to go barefooted over the rocky mountains and partially chained with wire on their hands. Now, in this connection I would like to tell you about the and of my Divisional Commander, General Mickel. A comrade of my division who came back told me that General Mickel want with officers and man with the divisional staff North of Senj, carried out desperate counter attack towards the and of the war was woundad with many officers. He want with these wounded officers into Volkswagens to the base of Senj and landed into a hiding place of partisans who had to get through. Since ha was not able to fight at all General Mickel surrendered. The Partisan Fuehrer in charge there accepted the surrender and the officers climbed out of their cars in order to be disposed of.
After a short consideration the Partisan officer took a pistol there and shot all the officers who were standing around. General Mickel remained lying there with eight shots in his breast, and his adjutant, who was not wounded so much fell into the rocks. Shortly afterwards one of our own Panzer Group came from Senj in order to release the prisoners. General Mickel and his orderly were picked up by the two tanks which were fighting quite near, and were taken along with them, and on the some night or the next morning, my divisional commander died.
DR. TIPP: Your Honor, at the moment I have no further questions to Herr Kerbe.
JUDGE CARTER: Are there any questions by other defense counsel? If not you may cross-examine.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. FULKERSEN:
Q. Witness, I believe you said that you were born in 1914?
A. Yes.
A You heard the question and your answer is you were born in 1914?
A. Yes.
Q And you said you became an officer candidate in 1932?
A. Yes.
Q. You were about 18 years old at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were continuously in the Wehrmacht from 1932 up until the time you were released as a prisoner of war, last December, I believe you said?
A. December before last.
A So that you were then a professional officer?
A. Yes.
Q. And you intended to stay in the Army, I presume, to make that your life career?
A. No, that wasn't quite clear at the time. I didn't know whether I should remain with the Wehrmacht or whether I should not take over the sphere of work on the farm of my father-in-law in Mecklenburg after the war. I couldn't judge that at all at that time how things would turn out.
Q. And would you tell mo again, please, when it was this division, this 392nd Croatian Division, was activated?
A. In the Autumn of 1943 it was activated.
Q. That was in the neighborhood of Vienna?
A. Yes.
Q. Were most of these non-commissioned officers Volksdeutsche were they racial Germans, rather than Reichsdeutsche? What I am getting at, I assume that most of these non-commissioned officers in the division spoke Serbian or Croatian, did they not?
A. No, most of the NCOs were Germans.
Q. And what percentage would you say of the total strength of the division were German Nationals, as opposed to racial Germans?
A. I don't know. The German personnel of the division consisted of soldiers of the whole territory which belonged at that time to the Reich.
Q. And I believe that you said that the actual,--the men themselves, that is the Croatians, who composed the main strength of the division, were furnished you by the Croation Ministry of War?
A. Yes.
Q. And any replacements that you had to have later came from the same source?
A. Yes, but not directly, but as I have already said, they came via the reserve troop units which were near Vienna.
Q. I just want to ask you a couple of questions about the theory on which you interpreted some of these documents. You remember commenting on one document which reported the destruction of a hospital with 50 beds by some clement of the 114th Division; do you remember that, having seen that document and having commented on it?
A. Yes.
Q. And you explained to us, although the word "hospital" was used in the document, that actually what was meant was ammunition depot or headquarters?
A. No, the whole installation itself was a strong point. It consisted of these huts, a munitions depot and a telephone office.
Q. I am sorry. I must have misunderstood you. I was under the impression that you said that this hospital that was described in this other document was not properly speaking a hospital, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And your one explanation for that was that they had to use this telegraphic style in these communications, that is they couldn't go into a lot of detail and explain everything?
A. Yes, I illustrated a report of the 1144th Rifle division by reason of my experience.
Q. Yes, that is right. But you made the point that you didn't expect too much in the way of grammatical nicety from these telegraphic reports?
A. Yes. A radio message was generally not very detailed with us, but I know the district, and therefore I thought that I could clarify the affair a little.
Q. But one reason that the communication was not clear, as I understood your explanation, was that you couldn't expect very discriminating, language to be used in these telegraphic reports, is that true?
A. Yes, I said that in these radio messages one couldn't give details as have been brought forward here now.
Q. Then you were asked by another document, which did actually concern your own division, but which, if I remember correctly, you said you didn't remember; independent of that is the document which went something like this: "Intention hare hunt, code name Lagerlaben.
200 forcible recruite." I believe was the term. Now, you explained that you could gather from that document that these 200 forcible recruits were persons who had already been recruited by the partisans, because if the report had meant that it was your division who was recruiting them, that they would have used the term "recruitment," or "recruiting," rather than "recruits?"
A. Yes, if that had been the case then we would have expressed it like that.
Q. Don't you think that is drawing a rather fine line to assume that the phrase "Zwangsrekrutierung" and not the term "Zwangsrekrutierton" would have been used, and that the difference between these two words, that is the difference between three letters, would change the meaning of the whole message?
A. Of course our German language allows and demands that such a difference should be made, and in my opinion there can be no debate necessary about this report.
Q Now, then, in some of these other documents we have had another confusion, apparently "between two other German words. I believe you testified that the herb "erfassen" as used in these documents you saw, just meant to be registered, to be put on a list. Is that right?
A I said that in general in the German language "erfassung" means a registration, that is, a finding out of who is present in this room. For instance, if it is wanted to find out who is present in this courtroom, then the names of the people present are "erfasst" - that is, registered.
Q Can it also be used in the sense of apprehended, as more or less synomomous with the verb "festnehmen?" (to arrest)?
A No. It means, as I said, a quite general matter. For instance, if I receive an order to "erfass" something, that is to register something, then it is left to me to decide in which form I should do this.
Q. Yes, but if you pick up a report and it says that 100 men are "erfasst" and that then they are transported away - how would you understand the word...what would you understand the word "erfasst" to mean in that connection?
A I would interpret it in the way that these people came together and then they drove away together.
Q So that if I told you that General von Leyser sat, right where you are now, with one of these documents before him, in which the language was almost exactly this - "100 men erfasst, so many other people transported or moved away" and if I told you that he talked about the 100 men as though they were arrestees and in his discussion of them actually used the German "Ord "festgenommen" you would say that he was just being very undiscriminating in his use of language?
DR. TIPP: Your Honor, I think it necessary here to tell the witness that General von Leyser actually did not quite "enfan" (grasp) the term "erfassen." He wanted to express what one means in the German language by the word "erfassen" exactly and when asked about it he said exactly the same as the witness has just said, what the witness is trying to explain.
BY MR. FULKERSEN:
Q I am sure that clears up everything....But would you answer my question?
A The whole matter is certainly very interesting conversation but the most important thing is that we did not carry out this whole matter. It was carried out by the Croatians under the jurisdiction and the supervision of the legal Croatian government representatives.
Q Now I want to ask you about your interpretation about one other document and, I think to be fair, you had better have this before you. It is in Book XVI; it is document NOKW-1428, that is Page 139 of the German and 93 of the English. It is Exhibit 393.
Now, again, I realize that this was not in your division but, as I understood your testimony, you said that you could clearly distinguish between two things reported by this one sentence which says: "Thereby 20 enemy dead, (including 2 physicians). In addition 95 wounded and 6 massacred." You said that you could distinguish between two different occurrences there, first a combat action and then a general massacre.
A Yes, exactly like that.
Q Well, now, where would you make the distinction? Would you put it before the parenthesis or after the Parenthesis?
A I would make it after the brackets because the "including 2 Physicians" belongs to the 20 enemy dead. From this report I would assume that the 2 physicians amongst the 20 enemy dead had defended this hospital together with others.
Q You don't think it is a reasonable assumption that the physicians were with the sick?
A No. Otherwise they would have been Placed behind the words "in addition."
Q Now you said that this document showed you that there was an example of.
..that this was just another example of this Serb-Croat warfare - that sentence we were just talking about. Why?
A Because from my own experience I know that in general the Croats did not treat the members of their own countries who were serving with the partisans in this way and with the Serbians the same was the case.
Q You mean to way there that Tito bands wore broken down into Serb and Croat bands? That in one regiment, say, of the partisans, there would be nothing but Serbs and in the next regiment nothing but Croats?
A No, I don't actually mean that, basically, but from my own experience I can say that, for instance, the so-called 13th Band Division was almost purely a Croat division whereas, for example, the so-called 8th Band Division was almost a pure Serbian unit.
Q Well, let us talk about that 13th Partisan Division again. You described the Operation Keulenschlag and you said that your division was involved in a battle there with this division, with this 13th Partisan Division. Was the whole 392nd Croatian Infantry Division committed in that Operation Keulenschlag?
A No. We had to hold a terrific area and only a part of our units could be used for this.
Q How many men were in this 13th Partisan Division?
AAs far as I know, altogether about 3,000 to 4,000 men.
Q And when was this?
A That is, my general knowledge about the strength of enemyunits if this strength was not in existence temporarily, then they reinforced their units by forced recruitment, or by volunteers.
Q It is your opinion, then, that the strength of these partisan divisions stayed fairly stable?
A Yes. In general I didn't have any other experience. I was able to see this once when I saw an enemy brigade marching while I was in a plane and I was able to convince myself that this figure was correct.
Q So that if you saw an intelligence report as of a certain date, which stated that the strength, say, of the 7th Division - the 7th Partisan Division, was about 5,000 men, you think that you could safely assume that it would continue to be about 5,000 men?
A Yes, I assume that it would remain at that strength as long as the enemy had sufficient reserves to keep it up to that strength. But in any case I counted on this being the strength then I planned operations together with my divisional commander, in order to take the necessary measures.
Q You were talking a while ago and you mentioned that in your opinion your men were to be commended because they restrained themselves so in the face of all these provocations that they never took reprisal measures unless reprisal measures were ordered. Do you recall that?
A No. As far as I can remember now, I did not say it in this form but I said that I do not remember that apart from the one reprisal measure we carried out, other reprisal measures. It was a very great area and you will understand if today, after three years, I cannot remember every single detail. I have also gaps in my memory which I have been able to fill sometimes by means of this material.
Q So that if you made the remark that I just attributed to you, it must have been a slip of the tongue?
A I do not remember that I made the statement which you say.
Q It has been suggested here, Colonel, that if the Germans had had more troops in Croatia, reprisal measures would not have been necessary at all. Does that agree with your opinion?
A Well, I really cannot imagine that. The reprisal measures were not directed according to the number of troops available but according to the attitude of the population.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The Tribunal will recess until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 19 November 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Wilhelm List, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 19 November 1947, 0930, Justice Wennerstrum presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal V. Military Tribunal V is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal. There will. be order in the Courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, you will ascertain if all the defendants are present in the Courtroom.
THE MARSHAL: May it please Your Honor, all defendants are present in the Courtroom with the exception of the Defendant von Weichs who is absent due to illness.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, Mr. Fulkersen.
WITNESS GERD KOBE - Resumed RE-CROSS EXAMINATION - Continued BY MR. FULKERSEN:
Q Witness, I have only a few more questions. One of them is on this matter of notes. I believe that you said, when originally set up to testify, that you had brought some notes here with you.
A Yes.
Q Were they the question and answer form of notes?
AA part of the questions, as well as a part of the answers, I had put down in outline form.
Q Were the questions over on the left-hand margin and the corresponding answer next to it?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q I noticed, when I looked at the script that the Witness Dr. von Besser was using, that he had some of his answers underlined in red pencil and some in blue. Did you follow the same procedure on yours?
A No.
Q You furnished the emphasis spontaneously?
6316 A
A Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: If any.
MR. FULKERSEN: I'm sorry, Your Honor -- if any.
BY MR. FULKERSEN:
Q Now, one other question: I believe you said that you had been 13 years, all told, in the German Army -- possibly from 1932 to 1945.
A Yes, that's correct. But I didn't talk about 13 years. I only gave the dates.
Q That's right. Is it possible that your attitude towards what the German Amy did perhaps is somewhat colored by the fact that were a professional soldier in the Army for such a long time?
A My attitude arises from a large number of things. First of all, my own common sense, and then my education at home, and then my education in the Army, and finally it also comes from the fact of having lived together with my own troops, and also, of course, with the enemy, and, above all, with the population in whose area one was fighting.
Q So far as you are concerned did you see anything that the German Wehrmacht did in Croatia which was at all to be criticized from a point of view of International Law or from any other point of view?
A During the whole time, apart from a few days or weeks, I was in only our own area of deployment, and where criticism had to be made I did that on the spot, either as regards the troops or their officers, or I discussed it with my divisional commander.
Q But generally speaking you say -- Excuse me. Were you going to say something else?
A No.
Q Generally speaking, you saw absolutely nothing that could be criticized so far as the activities of the German Army towards the civilian population and towards the partisans in Croatia were concerned?
A I didn't quite understand the first half of the sentence. One word, I don't know whether it was "said" or "was." (THE ENGLISH-GERMAN COURT INTERPRETER REPEATS THE QUESTION) No, I said if I was faced with something which I didn't understand in our area then, within the scope of my possibilities, I brought the matter into order again.
But I can't remember details about this any more, and your question is rather a basic one?
Q Well, I believe that you made the remark that you were disgusted and shocked at the ingratitude of the Croats towards the Germans.
A No, I didn't say that. The Croats were, on the contrary, very grateful to us, and we were in very extensive agreement with them.
Q You're talking now, of course, about the Croatian Government?
A No, about the Croatian people.
Q Your impression is that the population generally was very friendly to the Germans?
A Yes.
Q I believe I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any further questioning on behalf of any of the defense counsel?
DR. TIPP: Your Honor, I have no further questions in re-direct examination.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be excused. (WITNESS LEAVES THE STAND) DR. TIPP: Your Honor, the examination of the Witness Kobe concludes the case of the Defendant Leyser?THE PRESIDENT:
What is the course of the defense procedure now? Who is to be presented as a witness at this time?
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Sauter for the Defendant Lanz.
Your Honor, we intend to carry on the defense for the Defendant Lanz by first of all calling the defendant himself to the witness-stand. During the course of his examination we will then submit a number of affidavits, and, after the examination of Lanz, a few remaining affidavits will be offered to the Tribunal in evidence. The affidavits and the other evidence material for the Defendant Lanz are contained in Lanz Document Books I to IV.
Then we have another document book, Lanz Document Book V, and this contains excerpts from the Washington War Diaries and a few affidavits which concern these War Diaries. Document Book VI contains only a few pages? and it merely contains the forms or the information of a few previous affidavits which, first of all, were not duly certificated. An affidavit has only just arrived during the last few days, and this will be submitted in its own document book, Lanz Document Book VII.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter? may I make a general inquiry, which would be applicable to you and your client, as well as the other defense counsel? What disposition and what progress has been made in the research of some 100 documents that were later turned over to the defense counsel? Have you been able to incorporate them in your document books, and have the other counsel, as far as you know, been able to make use of them and incorporate them in their document books or supplemental document books?
DR. SAUTER: These supplementary documents, which came only afterwards, we have been able to go through them and I, for instance, have actually used some of them as far as they concern the Defendant Lanz, I assume, as a matter of course, that the other defense counsel have also done the same. In any case the defense counsel have, in the meantime, looked at these documents, which came only afterwards, and they have evaluated them. This matter is in order.
THE PRESIDENT: May I make this statement then, that to the extent that they may be used, the Tribunal will be interested and will appreciate their being given prompt study so that there will be no delay in the submission of any material that is desired to be used from these 100 pages or documents, and if you will convey that information to any of the counsel that are absent, it will be appreciated.
DR. SAUTER: Yes, I will do that, of course.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, then, with your case in chief.
DR. SAUTER: With the permission of the Tribunal, I, shall now call the Defendant Lanz to the witness-stand. General Lanz, will you please take the witness stand?
KARL HUBER LANZ, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn. Repeat after me: I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing. (THE WITNESS REPEATED THE OATH) You may be seated.
You may proceed, Dr. Sauter.
DIRECT EXAMINATION.
BY DR. SAUTER:
Q. Witness, please state your full name.
A. My full name is Karl Hubert Lanz.
Q. How old are you now?
A. Fifty-one.
Q. Were you a professional soldier?
A. Yes.
Q. What rank and what position did you have at the end of the First World War?
A. At the end of the First World War I was first Lieutenant and regimental adjutant of a mountain regiment.
Q. Were you sounded during the First World War?
A. Yes, I was wounded once very seriously.
Q. What did you do after the First World War?
A. After the First World War I was transferred into the newly established Reichswehr.
Q. And what was your activity between the First and Second World Wars?
A. During the period I was used with the troops as a company officer, and in addition in General Staff Service in the Reichswehr Ministry, and in the staff of the Army Corps Area Headquarters IX in Kassel.
Q. Your Honor, details about the life history of General Lanz can be seen in Document NOKW-875, Exhibit No. 443, in Prosecution Document Book XIX, German Page 3, English Page 4. And the details of Defendant Lanz's military career can be seen from Document NOKW-1780, also in Prosecution Document Book XIX, Exhibit No. 444, Page 6. With regard to the details I point out these two documents which have already been introduced in this trial.
Witness, now we can go over immediately to your position in the Second World War.