A I know Merkur -- that was Crete.
Q Now, Mr. Kraeutler, I would like you to look again at the commissar order which Dr. Laternser referred to on your direct examination.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Fenstermacher, before we commence on this examination, I think it is time we take the recess.
THE MARSHAL: The Court is recessed 15 minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed with the cross-examination.
Q. Mr. Kraeutler, I would like to show you now, Exhibit 14, which is in Document Book 1, page 49 of the English and page 34 of the German. If you will look on that page you will note an order from the Commander in Chief of the Army, at that time Field Marshal Von Brauchitsch, dated 8 June 1941. You will note its subject is "Treatment of Political Commisars."
THE PRESIDENT: What's the page number again?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Page 49, Your Honor.
Q. (continued) This, Mr. Kraeutler, is the Commissar order, and you will note if you turn to page 35 of that document Book, page 51 of the English, - "Directives for Treatment of Political Commissars." Now, if you will turn back to the first page, page 34 of the German Book page 49 of the English, you will note there is a rubber stamp on the original document which states: "For General Officers only." And now if you will turn to page 35 of your book, page 50 of the English Document Book you will note a communication from the Chief of the Supreme Command of the Armed Forces, who at that time was Field Marshal Keitel. This particular communication is signed by General Warlimont, and again you will note "Top Secret, for General Officers only," and then the rubber stamp, "For General Officers only." Now, will you turn to the last paragraph cf the communication from Warlimont, "You are requested to limit the distribution to Commanders in Chief of Armies or their commands respectively, and to inform the junior commanders by word of mouth." If you are unfamiliar with this Commissar order, Mr. Kraeutler, isn't it due to the fact that the order was given to General Officers only, and in fact to Commanders in Chief of Armies, or their commands. It would not have come to your attention in any event. Do you believe that is the possibility as to why you are not familiar with this order?
A. This order according to the distribution list, has not been sent to the AOK 12.
Q. But Mr. Kraeutler, the distribution of this order is limited expressly, according to General Warlimont's communication, to Commanders in Chief of Armies or their commands, and their junior commanders who I take it, means Corps Commanders and Division Commanders can only receive knowledge of the order by word of mouth. A mere captain, as you were at that time, wouldn't get any information with regard to a matter that was limited expressly to Commanders in Chief of Armies?
A. That I don't believe, because the super top secret matter would have been entered in my book, but I see from the distribution list here that no copy was destined for our area. OAK 12 and Armed Forces Commander Southeast do not appeal anywhere on this document.
Q. The 2nd Army which was commanded by Field Marshal Weichs, got a copy. Didn't the 2nd Army participate in the invasion of Yugoslavia?
A. That I don't know, because I wasn't there.
Q. Weren't you on the staff of the OKW when the invasion of Yugoslavia and Greece took place?
A. Yes, I was on the staff of AOK 12, not a member of the AOK 12.
Q. Didn't the second Army participate in the invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia in April 1941.
A. But the 2nd Army was not subordinate to us.
Q. The Second Army received a copy of the Commissar order, how do you explain that.
A. That I don't know.
Q. You believe then, that even though this order was limited to Commanders in Chiefs of Armies, you would have heard of it.
A. I would have gained knowledge of it.
Q. In any event you never heard of Political Commisars being among the partisans during the time you were in the Southeast?
A. No, I didn't know that.
Q. Now, Mr. Kraeutler, I asked you earlier whether in the course of your official duties looking at top secret reports and orders, whether you got to know anything about concentration camp, Jews, the execution hostages. But now I'd like to make my question a little bit broader and ask you whether as a soldier in the Southeast, talking with other soldiers talking with Fortsch and Field Marshal List on occasion you ever got to know anything about concentration camps, Jews, hostages, the reprisal burning of villages?
A. I never heard anything and I cannot recall anything.
Q. You have said I think that Field Marshal List had a great sense of responsibility, that he always thought things through quite carefully and never did anything rashly?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you get the impression that Field Marshal List was a strong man and that he did not hesitate to disagree with the OKW and even Hitler?
A. That I do believe.
Q. Do you believe that if Field Marshal List ever disagreed with an order of OKW or of Hitler, that he would have carried out that order?
A. Yes.
Q. You believe he would have refused to carry out an order of the OKW or even of Hitler, if he didn't approve of that order?
A. I am afraid I haven't quite understood this.
Q. I asked you whether you considered Field Marshal List a strong enough personality to have refused to carry out an order of the OKW or even of Hitler, If he disagreed with that order?
A. That I cannot judge at all. My information is not great enough to talk about this.
Q. You are quite sure that Field Marshal List never hesitated to talk back to the OKW or Hitler?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Kraeutler, do you feel a sense of loyalty for your old Field Marshal, you who as a captain served in a subordinate capacity on his staff?
A. I am afraid I can hardly understand anything. There must be some technical difficulty. It is very weak. (indicating earphones.)
(short intermission)
Yes, I can understand now.
Q. I asked you, Mr. Kraeutler, whether you who served as a captain on the staff of Field Marshal List in 1941 feel now a sense of loyalty and allegiance to the old Field Marshal?
A. Yes, I do.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: No further questions, Your Honor.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION
DR. LATERNSER: I just want to clear one point, Your Honor.
Q. Dr. Kraeutler, You were questioned about the Commissar Order, Exhibit 14, on page 35 of the German Document Book; you were asked whether super top secret matters were only accessible to generals, in spite of the formula?
A. Super top secret matters are first of all accessible to the Commander in Chief, to the highest commander and to the Chief of the General Staff, and from there the super top secret matter is transferred when necessary by the Chief of Staff to that Department at chief, who has to work on it and who has to sign for it.
Q. First of all I want to know that was the formula which was used in super top secret matters, was it called super top secret matter only through officers or super-top secret matter only for generals?
A. Super-top secret matter only through officers.
Q. Who guarded the files of super top secret matters?
A. I did.
Q. Were they any exceptions to that, are exceptions known to you of cases in which super top secret matters did not go through your hands?
A. That was not possible.
Q. In paragraph 2 on page 35 of the German book it says, and I quote:
THE INTERPRETER: Will you give me the English page of that?
DR. LATERNSER: 56.
Q. (continued) I quote again: "You are requested to limit the distribution to commanders in Chief of Armies or of Air Commands, respectively, and to inform the junior commanders by word of mouth. If it says here "Commander in Chief of the Armies" does that mean the Commander in Chief of the Army personally, or his office?
A. The office is meant by this.
Q. On page 37 of the German Book and page 53 of the English test, the distribution list was submitted to you, and in this context is was put to you that the AOK 2 had received the Commisar Order; do you know were at that time, that is June 1941, the NOK 2 was situated. In other words, was it at that time still in the Balkans?
A. I know, I know, I know. I can't tell you exactly where it was at that time.
Q. Do you remember now that I am telling you, that the AOK 2 was at that time actually in Munich?
A. Yes, I do remember.
Q. You remember that?
A. I do remember that.
DR. LATERNSER: I have no further questions.
RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. Mr. Kraeutler, what makes you believe now that the 2nd Army was in Munich at the time we are talking about now in relation to the Commissar order?
A. That was the time when the Balkan campaign had already been concluded, I now remember that AOK 2 then at that time did go to Munich in order to remain at disposal for further reassignment.
Q. You had nothing to do with the 2nd Army, did you?
A. No nothing at all.
Q. At this time you were down in Greece with the 12th Army?
A. Yes.
Q. You never heard where the 2nd Army was being moved to did you?
A. I beg your pardon? From conversations we heard that the staff of AOK 2 was in Munich. I now remember that.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any further examination by any of defense counsel?
There being no examination the witness may be excused.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honor, Now I would like to call two witnesses, briefly regarding the personality of the defendant Field Marshal List. For this purpose I now call a witness, the General von Greiffenberg.
THE PRESIDENT: The messenger will present the witness.
HANS von GREIFFENBERG a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
BY THE PRESIDENT: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn.
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the part truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath)
You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q. Will you kindly give your name to the Court?
A. My name is Hans von Greiffenberg.
Q. Will you kindly spell your surname?
A. G-r-e-i-f-f-e-n-b-e-r-g.
Q. When and where were you born?
A. On the 12th October 1893 in Radensfelder in Pommerania.
Q. What is you occupation?
A. I am a professional officer.
Q. And what was your last rank?
A. My last service rank was General of the Infantry.
Q. Where do you reside at this time?
A. At this time I am residing in the camp of the Historical Section at Neustadt.
Q. That is to day you are still a prisoner of war?
A. I am not longer a prisoner of war. I am interned at this time.
Q. And who has interned you, which office has interned you?
A. Well, I believe by order of the Military Government.
Q. When did you have your first official contact with Field Marshal List?
A. My first official contact with Field Marshal list took place in the autumn of 1926.
Q. At that time what rank did Field Marshal List have?
A. The Field Marshal was at that time Chief of a department in the War Ministry.
Q. In what capacity did you come to this department?
A. I got in contact with the Department as a captain, and a case worker.
Q. What rank did Field Marshal List have at that time?
A. Field Marshal List was a colonel at that time.
Q. What was his attitude at this time toward the Weimar Republic?
A. As far as I can see it he reserved a loyal attitude to the Weimar Republic. I cannot say more on that subject because I do not know anything.
Q. Did Field Marshal List have at that time any political views or leanings?
A. No, he did not have any leanings or views.
Q. What was his task at that time?
A. As Chief of the Training Department he was responsible for the training of the Army.
Q. Did he in this position have anything to do with the training of the Army.
A. Oh, yes, the training of officers also partly belonged to the sphere of activity of this Department, partly it belong to the sphere of another department.
Q Do you know which points seemed most important to Field Marshal List in the training of officers?
A His main point of concern was the education of the officers because it was then a very young officers' corps.
Q And on what did he put great stress in the training of officers?
A In mastering the technique of weapons and in the welfare of the troops. Those were his chief points.
Q And as regards personal matters, that is, I mean the tasks he set to the officers?
A Well, the demands he made on the officers were very high.
Q How long did you remain with this training department?
A I remained with the training department until 1930, that is, the Autumn of 1930.
Q What official position did you have then?
AAfter that I became company commander.
Q What did you do then?
AAt the end of my period as company commander, I became exchange officer in the United States, from 1932-1933.
Q What did you do there; what was your training there and how long did you stay there?
A I stayed in the United States for over one year, and I was a pupil at the General Staff Academy of the United States.
Q When did you return from America?
A I returned at the end of 1933.
Q What was your next official contact with Field Marshal List?
AAs I-A I was transferred to Dresden to the staff of Field Marshal List.
Q What was Field Marshal List at that time?
AAt that time Field Marshal List was Commanding General of the 4th Corps in Dresden.
Q And how long did you remain in your position as I-A?
A For three and a half years.
Q From 1934 to 1936 you had close official contact with Field Marshal List?
A Yes.
Q Did you at that time ascertain anything regarding the views of Field Marshal List towards National Socialism and towards the National Socialist Party?
A The Roehm episode had just occurred when I arrived with Field Marshal List, and the view of Field Marshal List and of his entourage had become very severe against this whole movement, and that, of course, had its effects and lasted during all the years I stayed there.
Q Was his attitude negative at that time?
A Yes, severely negative.
Q At which occasions could you ascertain that?
A I ascertained that chiefly through discussions with his chief of staff, who at that time was Col. Olbricht, who often talked to us and who had a very intimate relationship with his commander-in-chief.
Q What was the attitude of Col. Olbricht towards National Socialism?
A His attitude was extremely critical.
Q Did Field Marshal List know that?
A Yes, he knew that.
Q What happened to Col. Olbricht?
A Col. Olbricht was shot to death or executed in connection with the attack on Hitler's life on July 20, 1944.
Q At that time did Field Marshal List have any connections with the SA or the SS?
A No connections which ever became known to me.
Q Did you know with whom he had social contacts at that time, the Dresden period?
A Mainly in our circles and also, of course, in the close circles of the former Saxonian army.
Q Could you at that time ascertain what Field Marshal List's attitude was to the Jewish question?
A Yes, I can answer that by recounting an episode which took place at that time. The wife of Field Marshal List had bought things in Jewish shops, and at that time a slogan had been given out by the Party that one should not buy in Jewish shops, otherwise one would be a marked man, and now Mrs. List was to be accused in the newspapers because she shopped in Jewish shops. Olbricht got to know of that and then he tried everything in order to prevent this, and when we got to know of it, of course we discussed this point very extensively.
Q And what attitude did you ascertain of Field Marshal List generally?
A In the Jewish question?
Q Yes, in the Jewish question.
A Yes. As far as I could ascertain, he rejected these accusations as severely as possible, and the manner in which Jewish businessmen and traders were persecuted was criticized and rejected by him most decisively.
Q What was Field Marshal List's attitude towards the church?
A Field Marshal List -- I can testify to this myself -- was a keen church goer and he always took part in church services, and I experienced that myself.
Q What was his attitude towards the church parade of the Wehrmacht?
A The chaplains he invited at every possible occasion to military festivities, etc., and a place of prominence was given to the Catholic as well as the Protestant chaplains in every way.
Q At that time did the government have the tendency to restrict the chaplains' activities in the Wehrmacht as far as possible?
A The tendency was present, of course, at that time, but whether there restricted services had already been ordered, I can't say now.
Q When did you leave your position as I-A in Dresden?
A In the last year, which has been mentioned here, I became commander of a battalion in Jena.
Q And for how long were you a battalion commander?
A I was that for eighteen months.
Q When did your next official contact take place with Field Marshal List?
A My next official contact with Field Marshal List took place at the end of 1940.
Q What kind of official contact was this?
A I was in a military hospital for three months, and in the meantime I received an order that after I had recovered, I was to become chief of staff of AOK-12, whose commander-in chief was Field Marshal List, and during the last days of the year 1941 in the military hospital near Vienna, Field Marshal List once visited me and that was when I saw him again after an interval of many years.
Q Did you later become chief of staff?
A Yes, I did become chief of staff later on.
Q From when to when were you chief of staff of the 12th Army?
A I was chief of staff with the 12th Army from the beginning of 1942 until May, 1942. I am sorry; I have made a mistake. I was chief with Field Marshal List in his capacity, as Commander-in-Chief of AOK12 from January, 1941, to May, 1941.
Q Where at that time was the staff of the AOK-12 transferred when you took over the position of Chief of Staff?
A To Roumania.
Q Where in Roumania?
A It stayed in Roumania for a month.
Q Where did you then go?
A Then the whole army was advanced to the Bulgarian area.
Q What was the intention at that time? We can be quite brief here because we have dealt with this quite frequently here.
A The task of the army was to take up positions in Bulgaria in order to advance towards Greece and invade Greece and occupy Northern Greece.
Q What was the attitude of the Bulgarian officers at that time and the Bulgarian Government?
A Those people knew of these intentions and this plan. They supported it.
Q Did this circle have any misgivings?
A They had misgivings regarding the threat which could arise because of the situation in Yugoslavia if the army marched towards Greece in a southerly direction.
Q In the situation which you described before, did the situation change with regard to the intended campaign in Greece?
A The situation changed completely because of the change of government in Yugoslavia, and now instead of a friendly or at least a safe nation on the right flank, we had an enemy.
Q What was Field Marshal List's attitude in this situation? Did he welcome it or was his attitude negative?
A No. That was the worst thing which could happen to the army, that now in the right flank we had a very strong threat and the forces for Greece would have to be weakened considerably.
Q Were the plans changed on account of that?
A The plans had to be changed within a very few days.
Q Now from the military point of view what was thought of the invasion of Greece?
A I am afraid I have not understood this question.
Q Was it looked upon as a military necessity to attack Yugoslavia as well?
A If one had decided upon a campaign in Greece, it was indispensable that in order to protect the very long right flank of this German army, something had to happen. It would have been suicide if that had not happened.
Q We certainly don't want to have to deal with the details of these campaigns. In what manner did Greece capitulate? Can you tell that quite briefly?
A The bulk of the Greek forces capitulated because we succeeded in advancing very quickly towards Salonika and to cut off these forces.
Q Who capitulated? Who capitulated after Salonika was taken?
AAfter the capture of Salonika the so-called Thracian Forces capitulated which were standing in Northern Greece.
Q Who conducted these negotiations for this capitulation?
A These capitulation negotiations -- as far as I remember they were conducted by the commander of the Panzer Division which had penetrated to Salonika. That was General Keil.
Q With whom did he conclude the capitulation of this army?
A Either he or his commanding general conducted the capitulation negotiations with the Greek leader of that time. I don't remember his name.
Q How many armies did the Greeks have at that time?
A They had the Thracian Army and a further large army which confronted the Italians in Western Greece.
Q What was the name of that army?
A I don't know the number of that army. This army was called Zarakoglu, after the name of its commander.
Q What was the manner of capitulation of this army?
AAfter the army had been encircled by the penetration of the German armies into Southern Greece, the Commander in Chief of that army sent an offer of capitulation to the 12th Army.
Q What happened after that offer.
A The offer resulted in that delegates were asked to the air field of Larissa which was situated fairly centrally.
Q Did that happen?
A Yes.
Q When did that happen and when was the capitulation concluded?
A Field Marshal List concluded the capitulation on tbs air field with the delegate of the Zarakoglu Government. I myself flew to the headquarters of the Greeks, and received from him the signature under the capitulation and with that act it was concluded.
Q Now was this capitulation final?
A No.
Q What was changed and what was added?
A This capitulation was only concluded between the German 12th Army and between the Greeks at their express desire, but not with the Italians and the consequence of that was that Mussolini objected and Hitler on the following day ordered that this capitulation should be changed so that the Italians should also be taken into account, and in order to carry this out he sent General Jodl and an Italian delegation also to Larissa. There we started new negotiations and on the subsequent day the second final capitulation was concluded in the German headquarters near Salonika with certain changes as compared with the previous capitulation.
Q Did you see the Commander in Chief of the Greek Epirus Army again?
A Yes, in Salonika.
Q On what occasion?
A When the capitulation was concluded which took place in our headquarters Field Marshal List invited the Greek Commander in Chief and his retinue to a meal and I took part in that.
Q Did the Greek Commander in Chief get any further advantages and facilities?
A The greek officer retained all their weapons and the knowledge that they had been fighting as brave men and when the Commander in Chief expressed the wish to Field Marshal List that he would like to remain one day and one night in Salonika because he had to discuss something with friends this request was approved.
Q Did the Italians, too, dissolve parts of the Greek army?
A The Italians had tried that but it was prevented by the Germans at the request of the Greeks by drawing a line of demarkation so that practically the whole process of disarmament was carried out by the German 12th Army.
Q You said that this happened at the request of the Greeks?
A Yes.
Q Who had fulfilled this desire of the Greeks?
A Field Marshal List.
Q Now, only a few questions regarding Greece. What was the destruction there?
A We found destruction only on the big roads, on the great roads which were used by advancing armies and the destructions concerned only bridges.
Q These destructions were carried out by whom?
A These destructions were probably carried out by the British units during their withdrawal.
Q At that time, after the fighting had stopped, what was life in Greece and in Athens like?
A I only remained in Athens for a few days. At that time life presented a very quiet and I might almost say a normal impression. The shops were open. The restaurants were open. Destructions on a big scale I did not see.
Q What was the attitude of Field Marshal List to the Greek population?
A I believe that Field Marshal List very much regretted that he had to take part in this campaign at all because he had nothing against the Greeks at all and we certainly didn't have anything against them either and for that reason he endeavored at every occasion to help the Greeks who, after all, had suffered this misfortune. I can only talk of the time during which I was there.
Q What was the cause of this attitude of Field Marshal List or, rather, what was the expression of Field Marshal List's attitude towards Greece?
A E.g. he took special measures to prevent unrest and plunder in Athens. For instance, the Harbor of Pireus was blocked off because it had suffered heavily through air attacks. He saw afterwards that the liquidation of the Zarakoglu army took place quietly and in an orderly manner and he ordered the German 73rd Division to look after the supply, the transportation and the sanitary measures for this beaten army.
Q Were there any outward signs in Athens which testified to Field Marshal List's attitude towards Greece?
A He allowed the Greek government in Athens to hoist the Greek flag next to the German flag on the government buildings in order to give a proof of his regard for the Greeks. He intended to do the same about the flags which had been hoisted on the Akropolis for the same reason. That was a friendly gesture.
Q One more question regarding Greece: what role was played at that time by the Jewish question in Greece?
AAs far as I know, the Jewish question did not constitute any problem at that time at all.
Q Were there any restrictive measures in this field by the army?
AAt the time I am talking about no measures at all were taken.
Q How long did you remain Chief of Staff of the 12th Army?
A Until the middle of May.
Q Were you transferred then?
A I had a short leave and then I was transferred to the Eastern front.
Q What was your position there?
A I again became Chief of Staff of an army group.
Q When did you return? Rather, when did you again establish official contact with Field Marshal List?
A When the new army group List was established and which was used in the south of the Eastern front, I was transferred there as Chief of Staff of that army group.
Q And who was Commander in Chief of that army group?
A The commander in chief of that new army group was to be Field Marshal List.
Q From what date? From what time docs your collaboration with Field Marshal List date?
A From July. In July the Field Marshal arrived there.
Q You meant July 1942?
A July 1942, yes.
Q What, now, was the task of this army group which was led by Field Marshal List?
