A. No. The Party as an organization in that theatre was under my command, yes; but, of course, only nominally. All the Party officials were appointed by Bormann; about that I was never asked. There is a special Fuehrer decree for the districts of the NSDAP in the occupied territories, and it says in that that they are immediately under Bormann's jurisdiction.
Government General, have anything at all to do with any security police affairs?
A The Party was much too small and couldn't play any important parts; it had no state functions. USSR 335, in paragraph 6 it states--this is the decree on court martials. It states in paragraph 6: "Sentences of the court martial must be carried out at once." Is it true if I say that there was no formal legal means against these sentences, but that a reprieve was perfectly feasible and possible? an impossibility. the decree, this decree on October the 2nd, 1943, and I'm thinking in particular of the security situation?
A If I look back on that, then I can't think of any cause which would make such a demand possible; but, if you put yourself back into the war and the flames in all the places, then this was an explosive measure, a desperate measure, rather I wanted to say.
Q I now come back to the "A.B." Action. Is it true that as early as 1939, there was a decree on a court martial which had considerably larger legal guarantees than that of '43?
Q And is it also Correct that those arrested in the "A.B." Action, and of the strength of this decree and during those proceedings, were sentenced or acquitted? martials, at least in accordance with your will, were handed to the reprieve commission under Secretary of State Buehler?
Q The Prosecutor of the United States has accused you that in Neuhaus, where you were arrested after the collapse of the German armed forces, there had been found a large number of art treasures, not in your house, but perhaps in the official building of the Governor General.
Is it true that State Secretary Dr. Buehler, together with a letter to Dr. Lammers, was sent off by you, which letter contained a list of these art treasures?
A Yes; not only that, but the Chief of the "Pinakothek" in Munich was told by me that these articles were there; that they should be made secure from bombs. He has looked at the pictures and they were put in a cellar which was bombproof. I'm glad I did so; otherwise, these valuable articles would have been destroyed.
Q And now one last matter. The Prosecution have submitted document 661-PS. This document has a USSR exhibit number, which, unfortunately, I don't know at the moment. This is a document which has been connected with the activities of the academy for German law, of which, of course, you were president. The document has the heading "The Legal Forming of German-Polish policies from the Point of View of Nationalism in the Legal Part for the Committee on Nationals in the Academy for German Law", and I'm having it submitted to you. Please, will you tell me whether you've ever had this document in your hands before?
A From whom does it originate?
Q This is USA Exhibit No. 300.
A Does it state anywhere who worked on it?
Q The document has no author; it's not stated on it; nor does it show by whose order it was compiled.
A In that case, all I can say is that I've never seen the document; that I have never given an order of this kind, and that, in fact, I can't say anything other than in practice. Was there such a ministry in Kassel at that time?
AA ministry in Kassel, did you say? That doesn't exist since 1866.
Q DR. SEIDL: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Then the defendant can return to his seat.
DR. SEIDL: In that case, with the permission of the Tribunal, I shall call witness Dr. Bilfinger.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Smirnov.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: This document which is USSR 223, which are extracts from defendant Frank's diary, are you offering that in evidence? Apparently, some entries out of Frank's diary have already been offered in evidence; others have not. Are you wishing to offer this in evidence?
COLONEL SMIRNOV: This document is already submitted in evidence under two numbers; the first number is 223-PS, which was submitted by the American Prosecution, and the second is 223, USSR exhibit, and was already submitted by us on the 15th of February, 1946.
THE PRESIDENT: I see. Have these entries which you have in this document been submitted under 223 USSR? You see, the PS number does not necessarily mean that the documents have been offered in evidence. The PS numbers were applied to documents before they were offered in evidence; but the USSR 223 does imply that it has been offered in evidence.
COL. SMIRNOV: This document has already been presented in evidence.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Smirnov, what the Tribunal wants to know is whether you wish to offer this USSR 223 in evidence, because unless it was read before it hasn't been offered in evidence or it hasn't gone into the record.
COL. SMIRNOV: We already read excerpt on the 15th of February, and it is therefore', already read into the record.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
COL. SMIRNOV: May I retire, Mr. President?
THE PRESIDENT; Yes.
RUDOLF BILFINGER, A witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Will you stand up, please, and will you tell us your full name?
Q Will you repeat this oath after me? truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT; You may sit down. BY DR. SEIDL: position? RSHA where I was a Government councillor and Oberregierungsrat, and I was working on security questions and police questions. of the sector of legal administration attached to the commander of Security Police and SD in Cracow?
A Yes. In the autumn of 1940 I was the head of the administrative legal department attached to the commander of Security Police in Cracow.
Q What were your tasks? Please refer to the various periods and tell us what tasks you had to fulfill, very briefly.
tion with the police administration in the Government General and work on them under the Higher SS and Police leader. what was his relationship to the Governor General? Did the Highest SS and Police Leader receive his instructions regarding the Security Police and the SD from the Governor General? Or did he receive then directly from the Reichsfuehrer SS and Chief of the German Police, Heinrich Himmler. in the Government General, and of course of the SD, also received direct orders and instructions from Department IV, the Gestapo, and Department V, the Criminal Police Department, in the RSHA?
A Yes. The commander of the Security Police received many orders directly from the various departments of the RSHA, particularly IV and V. which was created in 1942, bring about a change in the legal position of the Governor General with reference to measures in connection with the Security Police and the SD? legal position of the Governor General, There were merely now spheres of juridiction which were added to the tasks of the Secretary of State for the Security Service. of the German Police Himmler in the year 1939, and what was its contents
A I know a decree probably dated 1939? dealing with the employment of the Higher SS and Police Leader.
In that decree it was ruled that the Higher SS and Police Leader would receive his instructions directly from Himmler. May 1942 and is based on a Fuehrer decree. In the employment of this decree another decree was issued which deals with the transfer of the business to the Secretary of State for the Security Service, dated June 3, 1942. Do you know the contents of that decree? Security Police were concerned, the entire political and criminal police, as it had been the case before, were in turn subordinated to the Secretary of State for the Security Service directly? under the Higher SS and Police Leader and later on the Secretary of State for the Security Service. So these decrees did not introduce innovations. It was merely a confirmation. points which deal with all the sectors dealt with by the Security Police, and their transfer to the Higher SS and the Secretary of State for Security Service? mentioned specifically? matters of the Security Police representation in the Government General during conferences and meetings, particularly in the central department in the Reich, will include the following spheres and sectors?
A I know that such a statement was contained therein. Whether it was Figure 21 or whether this is the exact wording, that I can no longer recollect. of the Administrative Police were removed from the administration of the Governor General and handed over to the Secretary of State for the security system, who was, after all, directly under Himmler?
contrary to the wording of that decree, certain few sectors were not taken away from the administration, about which the fight continued later on. Apart from that, all sectors of the police administration were taken away. anything to do with the direction and administration of concentration camps? When did you yourself hear of concentration camps at Maidanek, Treblinka and Lublin for the first time?
Q May,I, first of all, correct you. I was attached to the Chief of the Security Police, commander of the Security Police. I heard of Maidanek for the first time when Lublin and Maidanek were occupied by the Russians; and I heard it through propaganda for the first time what the name Maidanek meant when at that time the former Governor General. Frank ordered an investigation regarding the events and the responsibility in connection with Maidanek. relationship between the Governor General and the SS Obergruppenfuehrer Krueger, and what were the reasons for that?
A Their relations were bad from the beginning. The reasons were partly a question of the organization and the use of the police, and partly obvious differences of opinion.
Q What do you consider those differences of opinion? Do you mean different opinions regarding the treatment of the Polish population? court martials sentences by Governor General Frank were concerned. Contrary to Krueger's opinion, he either failed to confirm a number of sentences or he ordered much milder ones. It was in.
such connection that I heard of these differences and remember them. the so-called A.B. action?
A I know nothing of an A.B. action.
Q Oh, you came to the Government General later, did you?
DR. SEIDL: I have no further questions to this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the defendants' counsel want to ask questions?
DR. MERKEL: Dr. Merkel for the State Police. May I be permitted to put a few questions to the witness. BY DR. MERKEL: had been a circle of persons in accordance with a mutual intention, and that its membership had been voluntary. Since you had a leading position in the RSHA, may I ask you be tell me briefly what you know on these questions? small extent volunteers. The nucleus of the members were these former officials of the old political departments of the police president's offices. These former political departments under the police president originated the Secret State Police Department, and most of the officials of the former political departments were taken over. So in Berlin, for instance, there was Department I-A of the police president's department. other administrations to the Secret State Police, or were detailed to go there ... In the course of the years officials from other service departments and administrations were forced to transfer to the Secret State Police. So, for instance, the entire customs officials were in 1944, by order of the Fuehrer, transferred to the Secret State Police at about the same time all counter-intelligence personnel were transferred.
not able to do service at the front were detached and attached to the Secret State Police. Apart from that and to a considerable degree, people who had originally had nothing to do with police work were appointed to serve with the Secret State Police in the emergency a Reich authority and that the German civil servants legislation would be applicable, would that be correct?
Q Was it possible for the officials to resign easily? ly difficult, and, in fact, really impossible. A man could only leave under certain special circumstances. the officials of the Secret State Police the following ratio was applicable: Executives, about 20 percent; administrative officials, also 20 percent; and technical personnel, approximately 60 percent. Are these figures about right? certain service departments which I know intimately, in their case these figures would apply, yes. and in the occupied countries? nomic and administrative central department, that is, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl.
ministration of the concentration amps?
A No. It may be that at the beginning concentration camps here and there wer administered by the Secret State Police directly for a short period, but that was probably only the case in individual instances. But it was the principle even at that time, and later on, generally, that concentration camps were administered by the economic and administrative central department. liquidation of concentration camps? on the strenth of which protective custody could be decreed after 1933? President for the protection of the nation, and the state, dated February 1933, in which a number of basic rights of the Weimar Constitution were rescinded. on which dealt with protective custody, I mean at the end of '36 or the beginning of '37?
A Yes. At that time protective custody procedure was ruled on by this decree from the Ministry of the Interior, but the legal basis as such remeined in force. At that time, protective custody was confined to the Secret State Police. Before that, a number of other service departments, whether rightly or wrongly, had the right to decree protective custody. To prevent this, protective custody matters were transferred to the Secret State Police at that time. and in what capacity were you there? the commander of the Security Police in France, or from individual commanders, stating that in the caae of interrogation of prisoners of war, ill treatment and cruelties which actually did occur during interrogations?
ment did occur which either did take place although they were forbidden, or which were carried out by members of other service authorities in France who did not belong to the Security Police. treatment either officially or by hearsay? are concerned, I have never heard of such ill treatment, but I heard of ill treatment carried out by groups consisting of Frenchmen who were acting by order of some German authority
Q Were there so-called Gestapo prisons in France?
A. No. The Security Police in France did not have prisons of their own. Their prisoners were transferred to the detention camps of the Genman armed forces or detention institutions of the German armed forces.
Q. One last question: The Prosecution has listed a large number of crimes against humanity and the law of warfare which have been committed with participation on the part of the Security Police. Can one say that these crimes were perfectly obvious and must have been known to all members of the State Police, or was it the case that these crimes were only known to a small circle of persons who had the task of carrying out the measures concerned? What was the situation in that connection?
A. I didn't quite understand the question from the beginning. Were you referring to France or to the Security Police generally in the Reich?
Q. I was referring to the Security Police generally.
A. Any ill treatment or torturing was not permitted, and according to my knowled e, it was even less known generally or to a larger circle of persons I, for instance, knew nothing of it.
DR. MERKEL: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: We will adjourn now for ten minutes.
(A recess was taken)
THE PRESIDENT: Does the Prosecution wish to cross examine? Is there nothing you wish to ask arising out of Dr. Merkel's cross examination, Dr. Deidl?
DR. SEIDL: I have only one more question to the witness. BY DR. SEIDL:
Q. Witness, in paragraph 4 of the decree of 3 June 1942, the following is ordered, and I quote literally.
"The SS and police leaders in the districts, in the same way as the State Secretary for Security, are subordinate immediately to the governors of the district." only the police leaders.
of the Security Police and the SD were forwarded to the governors or immediately to the officers of the Security Police in the district?
A. These orders were always sent immediately to the commanding officers of the SD and Security Police. They could not be given any directives.
Q. If I understand you correctly, you intend to say that the channel within the Security Police and the SD had absolutely nothing to do with the administrative organization of the Government General.
A. Yes.
DR. SEIDL: I have no more questions to the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire.
DR. SEIDL: With the permission of the Tribunal I call as the next witness the former Governor of Cracow, Dr. Kurt von Burgsdorf.
DR. KURT VON BURGSDORF, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Will you state your full name?
A. Kurt von Burgsdorf.
Q. Will you repeat this oath after me:
"I swear by God, the Almight and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing."
(The witness repeated the oath.) BY DR. SEIDL:
Q. Witness, the government general was divided into five districts, of which you were in charge of one; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. On the 1st of December 1943 until the occupation of your district by Soviet troops you were governor of the district Cracow?
A. Yes. If I may express myself correctly, I was only concerned -
GENERAL RUDENKO: Mr. President, the defense counsel has put the question of the occupation of this region by Soviet troops. I energetically protest against such terminology and consider it as a hostile move.
DR. SEIDL: Mr. President, I have just been told that maybe there was a mistake in the translation. I did not intend to say any more than that in the course of the year 1944 the area in which this witness was governor was occupied by the Soveit troops in the course of military action. I don't know what the Sovietn prosecutor is protesting to; it is far from me to make any hostile statements.
THE PRESIDENT: I think the point was it wasn't an occupation; it was a liberation by the Russian Army.
DR. SEIDL: Of course; I did not want to say any more than that the German troops were chased out of that area by the Soviet troops.
Will you please continue with your answer?
THE WITNESS: I was in charge of the activities of the governor -- that is the correct expression. Until a few months ago I was still an officer of the armed forces; and during my entire activity in Cracow I remained an officer in the armed forces. BY DR. SEIDL:
Q. Witness, according to your observation what was the attitude, the principle attitude, of the governor general toward the Polish and Ukrainian people?
A. I want to exphasize that I can answer for the year 1944. At that time the attitude of the governor general was such that he intended to see through a peaceful life.
Q. Is it correct that already in 1942 the governor general had given the opportunity to the governors to form administrative committees consisting of Poles and Ukrainians?
A. There was a governmental decree to that extent. Whether that was from 1942 or not I do not know.
Q. Did you make use of the possibility of establishing committees in the district?
A. In the district of Cracow I established immediately committees of that kind in every county.
Q. Witness, according to your observation what was the food situation in the general government and particularly in your district?
A. It was not unsatisfactory, but I have to say that the reason for that was that besides the Russians, for the Polish population there was an extensive black market.
Q. According to your observation what was the attitude of the governor general concerning the question of the recruiting of labor?
A. He did not intend to send any workers outside of the government general because he was interested in retaining the necessary manpower within the country.
Q. The church in the government general -- was it persecuted by the governor general, and what was, according to your observation, the attitude of the governor general?
A. Again I can only answer for my district and for the year 1944. There was no persecution of churches at that time; on the contrary, the relations with the churches of all kinds were good in my district, and I have always received the clergymen on my travels and I have never heard any complaint.
Q. Did you have any personal experience with the governor general with regard to these questions?
A. Yes. In the middle of January 1944 I was received by the governor general, who at the same time was the Party leader in the government general, and I received a Party office for the district of Cracow. And in the same manner, as I told the Minister of the Interior,Himmler before, I pointed out to him that I was a convinced Christian. The governor general said that this was in no way disturbing to him, and he knew of no point in the Party program which would exclude that.
Q. What, according to your observation, was the relation between the governor general and the administration of the government general on one side to the Security Police and the SD on the other side?
A. Doubtlessly a bad one internally, and that for the reason that the police always did what they wanted and were not concerned with the administration, the desires of the administration. Therefore all over the country there was friction between the officers of the administration and the police.
Q. Is it correct that when you took officer- rather a short time laterthe governor general issued directives referring to the police? I quote from the diary of the defendant Dr. Frank, the note of the 4th of January 1944. "The governor general issued directives to Dr. von Burgsdorf about his activity. It would be his mission to inform himself as a matter of principle about all conditions in the district. First of all, it should be his job to counteract any perpetrations by the police."
A. That conversation of the 4th of January 1944 I can not remember today, but is may have occurred. However, I remember that after I was put in office November 1943 I had gone to see the governor general once more and told him that I had heard that the relations with the police were quite unfavorable and causing great difficulty for the administration.
He said that he did what he could in order to bring reason into these, relations. On the basis of this statement by the governor general I finally decided to remain in the government general, and as it is well known I had refused the Minister of the Interior of the Reich to go there initially.
Q. In your position as governor did you have any authority over the Security Police and the SD?
A. In no way whatsoever.
Q. Did you yourself ever see a directive of the police?
A. No, never; police channels go definitely directly from the highest to the next lower and then to the lowest.
officials; from the supreme commander of the Security Police to the commanders. administration of concentration camps?
Q Do you know who administered the concentration camps? some central office in Berlin with the Reich Fuehrer SS Himmler. Majdanek?
AAbout two weeks ago; a fortnight ago. Polish territory, that not before your captivity did you find out about it?
A Yes, I am convinced; I am absolutely sure that I only heard about it from you. Treblinka? having decreed a law for courts martials in the year 1943. What at that time was the situation concerning security in the government general?
AAgain I can only judge that for the year 1944. As German troops came back from the East, had to retire from the East, it became worse and worse, so that in my district in an increasing measure a regular administration could no more be carried out. in the agricultural sector and the sector of trade, and can one way that in considerable of war-time conditions the governor general had done everything to improve conditions? trades and in agriculture. There were industries which had been transferred from the Reich to the government general, and as far as agriculture is concerned the administration brought in seed and livestock; also horses were raised in my district to a large extent.
Q The defendant Dr. Frank has been accused with regard to public health and hygienic conditions, -- not to have done everything that was necessary. What can you say about that point? and some new ones installed. But especially in the field of fighting epidemics a great deal had been done. Typhus, dysentery, and typhoid were greatly reduced by vaccination.
Q The defendant Dr. Frank was also accused of neglecting education. Do you know anything about that, about conditions in the government general? left. Thereupon and on the basis of other experiences I suggested immediately to reinstate higher Polish schools. I contacted the president of the then department Hauptabteilung who told me these plans existed already with the government, and in everyone of my monthly reports I pointed the necessity of re-establishing these schools, and because of that during a very short period a lot of specialists, technicians, and doctors attended.
Q Now, one last question. There was a so-called work district of the NSDAP in the government general, and you were the leader of that district for Cracow. What was the relation between the governor general and the leader of the Party Chancellery Bormann? miserable one. As a district leader that office was connected with that of the government. I witnessed the last great struggle of the governor general against Bormann. The governor general--and with full right from his point of view--considered it necessary to keep the Party office separated from the administrative office. He was afraid that otherwise there would be too much interference not only by the police but also by the Party,and that he wanted to prevent. Bormann on the other hand, also in the government general, wanted to re-establish the predominance of the Party over the state, and that caused the most serious conflict.
DR. SEIDL: I have no further questions.