lations of the laws of war, crimes against humanity, repeatedly points to orders, to documents, which bear your name. Many so-called Keitel orders, Keitel decrees, have been submitted. Now we have to examine and prove if and how far you and your activity are connected in a guilty and original sense with the happenings or the results of these orders. What can you say, or what do you wish to say to this general accusation? directives with which my name is connected, and it is also to be admitted that such orders many times presented deviations from the existing international la not rest on military bases and motives but on Weltanschaulich, or ideological points of view, and in this connection I am thinking of the group of directive which before the campain in Russia were issued, and those which were ordered subsequent to that time.
Q What can you say in your exoneration about these orders? which resulted from these orders and which are connected with my name and my signature, I assume that responsibility which is resultant from my position. were subordinate to me, I assume responsibility insofar as it is based on normal and legal principles. sition? forth. self with the text.
In this decree, Paragraph One, you will find "the authority over the whole Wehrmacht, of which from now on I personally take over the supreme command". What did that mean in connection with circumstances or conditions as they had obtained up until that time?
A Up until that time we had a commander in chief of the Wehrmacht. That was Fieldmarshal von Bomberg, and besides that there was the supreme commander and, according to the constitution, that was the head of the state; in this case, Hitler. With the doing away with or the resignation of von Blomberg, then was only one commander in chief, and that was Hitler. to issue orders to all three arms of the Wehrmacht: the army, the air forces and the navy, and he himself personally conducted this power of command.
It also says "from now on directly" and that was to establish unequivocally that any intermediary position, as far as orders were concerned, did not exist from that period of time on but that orders were to issue directly from Hitler, the supreme commander in chief, and that the orders were to go directly from Hitler to the various parts of the Wehrmacht.
It also says here "Direct and Personal Orders". That too had its contents and meaning, for the word "personal" was to show and was meant to express that--I should like to say "Deputizing" of this power was not to be had in any event.
Q I assume therefore that you never, when you signed, said, "In Deputy" or, "As Deputy"; that you never signed your orders that way? "In Vertretung", that is, as deputy. And according to military principle, if the question of a deputy had arisen there could only have been one person, and that would have been the next ranking officer.
Q In paragraph two of this decree it says, "The Wehrmacht office in the Ministry of War, which has existed up to that time, will now come under my direct decrees and orders." What does that mean in relation to the staff which was now formed? in the Wehrmacht Amt, in the Wehrmacht office; that is to say, in the War Ministry, and this Wehrmacht Amt was taken over by Hitler as Supreme Commander, and Hitler took over this body as his military staff. And with the doing of this this staff was to be his personal working staff. At the same time, with the elimination of the post of Supreme Commander of the Wehrmacht the Reich War Minister was also done away with. There was no War Ministry and no Minister of War as they had existed in the previous sense. And with this it was clearly seen, just as Hitler wanted it to be seen, that between him and the various parts of the Wehrmacht, so far as the command channels were concerned as well as ministerial functions were concerned, that there was to be no bearer of office who was to be in a position to issue orders independently. the OKW, and that was a new office which was taken over by you. Will you please clarify whether this term "Chief of the OKW" is correct; that is, whether that which it seemed to say to the outside was actually the case? that this term in its abbreviated form does not really apply to me. For the exact meaning one should have said, "Chief of the Staff of the High Command of the Wehrmacht", and not the abbreviation, "Chief of the OKW", for from documents submitted by the prosecution I gathered that the "Chef" was interpreted as if I was a Commander Befehlshaber, that is, someone who could have issued orders.
And that of course is a conclusion, it is not right; it was neither a position of my being able to issue orders nor as might have been assumed or has been assumed that it was a sort of position of a chief of a general staff. That is not correct either; I was never Chief of the General Staff of the Wehrmacht. It was the very clear wish of the Fuehrer to have all power of orders and command in his own person, to have those powers rest with him. And that is not an ideal which I am establishing subsequently, but these things he mentioned to me and defined clearly on several occasions. Partially and in connection with those things, he told me repeatedly he could never put these ideas through with Blomberg. tion, a declaration put down by Field Marshal von Brauchitsch.
A Perhaps I might add a word or two. I was discussing the fact that it was not a position of Chief of the General Staff which I occupied, for the basic opinion and view of Hitler was such that the commanders in chief of the Wehrmacht branches each would have his own general staff, and that Hitler did not want that the High Command of the Wehrmacht, with the inclusion of the Wehrmacht Operational Staff, to take over the functions of a general staff. Therefore in practice with the Operational Staff of the Wehrmacht branches, where it was carried on in that manner, there in the Obercommand of the Wehrmacht--which was purposely kept small--a working staff established for Hitler in that way for strategic consultation, let us say, and for special missions. which I mentioned a few minutes ago, -- do you consider what he said correct?
It says here, "It Hitler had decided to reach his political aims through military pressure or through the using of military means of power or to support his aims in any way, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army, if he was to participate in this, first of all received his instructions orally as a rule or received an order in accordance with the plans. Thereupon the OKH operation and deployment plans were worked out after they had been submitted to Hitler orally first as a rule, has been approved by him, and then a written order of the OKW went out to the various branches of the Wehrmacht, is that correct?
A Yes. In principle it is correct so far as the final formulation of the mission with which the commanders-in-chief of the army were charged, in that it took place in the form of a Weisung (directive), as we called it; and on the basis of the already submitted and approved plans. This work was done in the Wehrmacht Fuehrung Stab (Wehrmacht Operational Staff), which wasn't an independant unit when giving out orders, and did not treat matters independently. But the Wehrmacht Fuehrung Staf and I took part in the approval of some of these proposals and formulated those ideas, which were then carried out by Hitler as Commander-in-chief. We transmitted these orders, so to speak.
Q Then I have an affidavit by Lt. Col. Halder which deals with the same subject. You know this affidavit number one, and for the purpose of evidence I am submitting affidavit number one by Halder, and I wish to use it at this time. It has been submitted by the prosicetion. The prosecution submitted a further statement on this without assigning a special number to it, and this supplement deals with the basis for the organization of the German Wehrmacht. That is the tittle of this supplementary document.
THE PRESIDENT: Is this the document which you say the prosecution offered in evidence but didn't give a number to:
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, this document was given to us by the prosecution, I believe by the American prosecution. We received it on the 26th of November 1945. I don't know -
THE PRESIDENT: You mean it never was deposited in evidence by the prosecution ?
DR. NELTE: I do not believe I can decide on that. I assume that a document which is submitted to us is submitted at the same time to the High Tribunal if not as evidence then for official notice, anyway.
THE PRESIDENT: That is the document? Is it an affidavit or not?
DR. NELTE: It is not an affidavit; it is really a composition by the American prosecution. And as I assume it is a basis for the prosecution against the organization OKW, and so forth -
THE PRESIDENT: Have you got it in your document book or not?
DR. NELTE: No, it is not in the do document book, for I assumed that was at the disposal of the High Tribunal. It is, Mr. President, just a very small document.
Mr. DODD: If I could see it I might be able to be helpful, I am not familiar with it. It is probably one of the documents which we submitted to the defense but which we did not actually use in evidence, and that happened more than once, I think, in the early days of the trial.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, I am just referring to a single paragraph.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. NELTE: I am referring to just a small paragraph and I would like to quote this brief passage. Perhaps through that we can obviate submitting this material.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you offering in evidence the whole of the affidavit? I don't mean at this moment, but are you proposing to offer it?
(Dr. Nelte nodded).
You are?
DR. NELTE: I assume the Prosecution has already submitted it. I am just referring to it, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The whole affidavit? What is the number of it if it has been submitted?
DR. NELTE: This affidavit does not bear any number,
THE PRESIDENT: It has not been submitted if it hasn't a number on it, then. It is suggested to me that possibly the Halder affidavit was offered and then rejected.
DR. NELTE: No, Your Honor. At that time a series of affidavits were submitted -- affidavits by von Brauchitsch, Halder, Hausinger, and several others, other generals who are interned at Nurnberg, and all of these affidavits had no exhibit numbers. None of these affidavits had any exhibit numbers.
MR. DODD: This affidavit was put in by the United States as an exhibit. I don't have the number handy, but I think it was submitted at the time Colonel Telford Taylor submitted the case on behalf of the Prosecution against the High Command and the OKW. This Halder affidavit, the first document which Doctor Nelte referred to, is not an affidavit. It was a paper submitted to the Tribunal and to the Defense by Colonel Taylor. It set out some of the basic principles of the organization of the High Command and the OKW wholly before he presented his part of the case. It is really just the work of our own staff here in Nurnberg.
THE PRESIDENT: Doctor Nelte, as the document you are referring to, not the Halder affidavit, appears to be a mere compilation, the Tribunal thinks it shouldn't go in as an exhibit, but you can put a question to the witness upon it BY DR. NELTE: the following: after 1938 there were four divisions, that is, OKW, High Command of the Wehrmacht; OKH, High Command of the Army; OKL, High Command of the Air Force; OKM, High Command of the Navy; and each had its own General Staff.What can you tell us about that?
have already given as to the function of the High Command is not in line with that. There were not four departments like that; there were only three: the High Command of the Army, the High Command of the Navy, and the High Command of the Luftwaffe. The OKW, the High Command of the Wehrmacht, was not an independent department, as I have already stated. The commanders-inchief of the various Wehrmacht branches were commanders who had the authority to issue orders and use this power over these troops which were subordinate to them. The OKW did not have the power to issue orders. Neither did it have any troops which were subordinate to it and to which it could have issued orders. Therefore it was not correct, if I recall the speeches of the Prosecution, when the expression was used that "Keitel was commander-in-chief of the Wehrmacht." I am mentioning it only to emphasize this point. I would like to refer to the last page. There is a diagram on the last page. I would like to call your attention to that diagram.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, this diagram shows the Wehrmacht and its parts. It is a diagrammatic expectation of the entire Wehrmacht and its various parts.
THE WITNESS: I believe therefore, and I feel I should refer to this diagram briefly, that just this diagram was the reason for the misleading belief, for here the High Command of the Wehrmacht is designated as a special department or branch. It is shown as such on this diagram, and as I have stated before, that is wrong.
Q What was your task in this military sector as the Chief of the OKW? documents, with a large group of reports which he desired. That is, in connection with the evaluation by the Wehrmacht Fuehrung Stab, I had to supply the necessary material and information to him.
I would like to say that the Wehrmacht Fuehrung Stab in this connection carried out the function which one might term -- that this staff give Hitler immediate and close relations to the General Staffs of the various branches of the Wehrmacht and attended to these tasks. an allied nature which were demanded daily was a second function, all conferences in which the commanders-in-chief of the various Wehrmacht branches participated and the chefs of their staffs and the Chief of the Wehrmacht Fuehrung Stab. As a rule, all of these men were present and had to be present, for on those occasions immediately a series of oral orders was given, and these orders, in line with military principle, were later on confirmed in writing. Only in this way could we prevent mistakes or misunderstandings that would arise, that is, through the confirmation of these orders to those who had already received oral orders. It was put down clearly in writing. This is the aim and meaning of the order. by you? exclusion were signed by me, and indeed they were orders which had already been given and which, in military channels, had already been transmitted and were being acted upon. There was., as can be seen from the tremendous amount of material on hand, the form which I made it a matter of habit to use; that is, after a few preliminary words I always said; "The Fuehrer has therefore ordered." In the large majority of cases this order was no surprise. For the departments receiving this order it was nothing new to them, It was only a confirmation. And in a similar way, although this was not organizational, as far as directives and orders were concerned, I had these matters dealt with under my supervision and transmitted them. In that way, I should like to point out especially, I in no case sent through orders without having shown this order again to my commander-in-chief, in order to make certain that I had not misunderstood him or that I was issuing something which, and I would like to emphasize even in the verbatim, did not have his approval.
A. May I perhaps add a few workds?
Q. Please do.
A. In order to clarify mis-statements the documents which are at issue here, those which Hitler personally signed had a heading "The Fuehrer and the Command-in-Chief of the Wehrmacht." There are some exceptions in which such directives were signed by me, and I would like to explain this matter as to how this came about. corrections entered by Hitler personally now were given to me, and somehow the Fuehrer was prevented from signing himself and I signed, but never as deputy but always "as per instruction." Then matters took their course, as I have already described them, in the form of directives which were signed by me; and I would like to mention also, if a series of documents under the heading "Chief of the OKW" appeared there might have been some change in that, as "A. Jodl." I would like to say that it can be shown almost automatically that I did not happen to be there at the time; otherwise I would have signed; and I would like to say that he was the recognized Chief of Staff who, according to military regulations, had to sign these matters.
Q. The memorandum which you have before you contains the following sentence: "The OKW agreed or contained in itself the activity of a staff and of a ministry. We were concerned with those matters which previously the Reichs War Ministry had treated in its capacity and which had been taken over by OKW."
A. This formulation as set down in this document is not exactly incorrect or untrue, but in its vital points is open to misinterpretation, for it wasn't at all such that the OKW exercised all functions which the War Minister had exercised in prior years, and that these functions all were taken over by the OKW. Many functions which the War Minister in his capacity as minister and responsible for them and as responsible to the various parts of the Wehrmacht and their commanders-in-chief, this minister could decide, and did decide those matters which I never received authority to deal with as Chief of the OKW.
The following things happened at that time: all of that which in this connection had the authority to issue orders and who had authority of which the Fuehrer did not himself wish to take up personally or take over personally -that was, as far as decisions were concerned, given to the commanders-in-chief of the various parts of the Wehrmacht. amples, from memory, vital examples. For example: the personnel records of officers, the decision on complaints, matters of budget and administration, jurisdiction of the courts are some of the functions which the Minister of Jar had had and which went over to the supreme commanders. Questions of officials and concerning the rights of the officials -- these are some of the things I have mentioned. I could mention quite a few others, but I wanted to point out merely that where decisions had to be made, such as if the official was to be dismissed, not the Chief of the OKW could make that decision but the Commander in Chief. These powers were given to them, and certain reservations were made with the Fuehrer, those reservations which the Fuehrer wished to keep for himself. At the same time some of the other spheres of the command posts of the Wehrmacht were limited in subsequent and following years, limited in its tasks through the dissolution of the Wirtschaft and Ruestung, that is, the economic and armament department, and an armament minister was created through the dissolution of the counter intelligence department, so that only the defense troops was kept up. Everything else was deleted. My authority was such in a basic questions with which this ministerial sector was concerned that I was obligated in every case to find out the decision of Hitler. I was only free from doing this in current matters, and if between the people involved, that as far as an administrative question was concerned -- if between the various branches of the Wehrmacht my department, which was concerned with these matte had reached a complete agreement, then in a case like that a decision by Hitler was not necessary; and I must emphasize again, in summary, that the OKW had no jurisdiction of its own, no competence of its own, and that one can only expr it as follows: that Hitler indeed had the functions of the Commander-in-Chief of the Wehrmacht, as well as the functions of War Minister, that he had these functions unified in his own person, so that an intermediary official was to be eliminated at all costs.
That is, there was to be no intermediary between him and the commanders-in-chief of the various Wehrmacht branches.
THE PRESIDENT: We will adjourn now until two o'clock.
Apr-3-A-RT-12-1
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Nelte, although the Tribunal did say that they would hear Dr. Horn at 2 o'clock, they would not wish to interrupt the examination of the defendant Keitel if you wish to go on with that now. It is a matter for you to consider, whichever you like.
DR. NELTE: Dr. Horn agrees also, that I continue the interrogation of Keitel now.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR. DODD: If it please the Tribunal, for the assistance of the Tribunal I have ascertained that the first Halder affidavit, referred to this morning by Dr. Nelte, was introduced as USA Exhibit 531, on January 4, by Colonel Taylor; and the second Halder affidavit referred to by Dr. Nelte was introduced as USA Exhibit 533, on January 5, by Colonel Taylor.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, Dr. Dodd was kind enough to give me a number of copies of the compilation of priciples of organization of the German Armed Forces, He has put these copies at my disposal, so that I am able to submit them to the Court which I now do. BY DR. NELTE:
Q You had last explained that on the 4th of February, 1938. one part of the former competence of the War Ministry was transferred to branches of the Armed Forces, and another part to the OKW, that is, the High Command of the Armed Forces, In the decree which has been mentioned it says, concerning these affairs: "The High Command of the Armed Forces, OKW, is taking care of the affairs of the Reich War Ministry. At the same time, the Chief of the OKW has, upon my orders, the functions which the Reich Minister of War had heretofore."
Apr-3-A-RT-12-2 already been sent to the Translating Division for the purpose of translation. However, I cannot say for sure whether it has already been translated and is in the hands of the Tribunal. OKW were executed by a number of offices. I shall name the most important now, indicating their functions. Forces Leadership Staff, which, as an office of the Armed Forces High Command, was coordinated with the other offices concerning channels of command, and which had a primary position compared to the other offices. As the name implies, the Armed Forces Leadership Staff was an organ of the High Command of the Fuehrer, with which the Furhrer was in personal contact primarily. There we find no functions or competence of a ministry. took care of ministerial and administrative questions.
One could call it a little war ministry. but also in part as an assistance in questions of leadership.
Then, the office for armament and economy. I have to point out that in the year 1940 this was dissolved and only a small wehr wirtschafts amt-economy office--was left over, which was mainly concerned with questions of supply in various fields which the armed forces needed--fuel, coal, gasoline, etc. called the Rekrutierung--a central office--which was more designed to take care of personnel questions within the OKW. it is not necessary to enumerate.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Nelte, I think the Tribunal has followed the distinction whichthe Defendant has made between the General Staff for the High Command and the position of the OKW; but is it necessary for the Tribunal to go into all these details?
DR. NELTE: I had finished, as a matter of fact, with this section.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
DR. NELTE: I want to put just one more -
THE PRESIDENT: Before you pass from this document that you have just put before the Tribunal--this diagram--are you desiring to make an exhibit of that?
DR. NELTE: Yes. I would like to submit it in evidence, and it will still be submitted in translations.
THE PRESIDENT: If so, what number will you give it? You must number all your exhibits.
DR. NELTE: I would like to number it, K-1, Keitel 1.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. NELTE: K-1A, rather.
THE PRESIDENT: Who prepared it?
DR. NELTE: We have prepared it and the presentation department of the Prosecution has reproduced it.
The Prosecution also is in possession of that diagram.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you asked the Defendant to confirm that it is correct? BY DR. NELTE: diagram is correct?
GENERAL RUDENKO: Mr. President, the Prosecution has not received this diagram. Therefore, the Prosecution would like, before making conclusions, to acquaint itself with this diagram.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you got any more copies of it, Dr. Nelte?
DR. NELTE: Yes. I can have them brought up immediately, and I can distribute them right away. Then I would like for the Tribunal to reserve its decision until the diagrams have been distributed in sufficient number.
A (continuing) I recognize this diagram as correct. It does not contain the small minor changes which have occurred since the original creation of the OKW, which I have mentioned--changes in armament necessities and so on-but it shows the way in which it worked during the last years.
THE PRESIDENT: Go on, Dr. Nelte: BY DR. NELTE: the following: Is it correct that according to this all Keitel's orders, which have been designated as such and submitted by the Prosecution, should be considered Fuehrer orders--that is to say, orders which were based upon Hitler's orders? said. In summarizing, I would like to state that these orders, as I have said in the beginning, as far as they are brought in connection with my name, I assume responsibility and have to assume responsibility, because I knew, of course, the content of these orders which I executed. I recognize in the documents which have been submitted to my my signature, and therefore I have to accept the documents as authentic. May I add that as far as I may have objections as a soldier or other objections, of course I have mentioned these objections.
In the case of orders for which I thought objections existed, I attempted to avoid these orders--to prevent these orders--but I have to state at the same time that if the decision finally had been made by Hitler, without examining them any more, I had to issue these orders and to execute them.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, before I enter the next part of my questions I would like to state the following: and has deduced this participation from various facts, facts which as such were not always to be brought in connection with each other and could not always be coordinated. of the state. That is included in the Indictment.
Then the Prosecution said he had been a tool, a powerless tool; and then the Prosecution stated that the relation between himself and Hitler had been a rather intimate one. protest against these things. He has to speak some more about the relations between himself and Hitler.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Nelte, that is what the Defendant has been doing. He has been explaining his relationship to Hitler, and if you want to elucidate it further you must ask him further questions. So far it has only teen a relation of his office. Would you please tell us something about the work between you and Hitler? I ask you to be as brief as possible and tell us only the most necessary facts, but at the same time so that we can get a clear picture. one between a high military commander and his subordinate. In other words, such relations as I have always had in my career as a soldier toward my commanding officer of whose staff I was a member. From this strictly military and soldierly relation can best be explained the relation between Hitler and myself. Of course, it was my duty and my right at the same time to express my opinions, and how difficult that was can only be judged by someone who knows that Hitler, after a few words, used to assume the entire conversation and to speak about the subject from his point of view alone.
It was very difficult then, of course, to start speaking about that subject again. high staff functions to get around the superior commanders, but the conditions such as I have met them here were quite difficult. I was quite unaccustomed to it and they surprised me, and not infrequently they brought me into a state of uncertainty. That can only be understood if one knows that Hitler, in military or soldierly questions--if I may say it very carefully--was a man with extensive plans of reforms and considered me with my thirtyseven years of service as a soldier of the old school.
Apr-3-A-RT-14-1 times before the war?
A During the war these contrasts were moderated by the events; by the fact that the actuality of all events limited mannerisms and therefore these things did not come to the foreground. But, on the other hand, it was doubtless so that Hitler in his discussions, in his briefing discussions, had a compartively large circle of about twenty people around and speaking in terms of a soldier, in military terms, without consideration stated his criticism and his accusations, as a rule against people who were not present. I have taken the part of the absent person as a matter of principle because he himself could not defend himself. As a consequence I received all the accusations or criticisms and my training as a soldier forced me finally to exert a great deal of reticence because as an officer and before younger subordinates one cannot protest to a superior or utter any objections or protests. To protest before a number of personalities, regardless of what rank, was unbearable to the Fuehrer. One could only try to speak to him personally about these things and alone.
Q Were you of the conviction that you had Hitler's confidence?
A I could not say defiately. I have to admit frankly that Hitler's confidence in me was not without reservations and today I know sufficiently well that there were many things concerning which he had never spoken frankly to me and never took me into his confidence. It was definately so that Hitler, as far as old soldiers were concerned at least, had a strong suspicion. They were products to him, of an old and ancient decadent school and in this sense to us old soldiers he was a man who brought revolutionary ideas into the Wehrmacht and into armed training and frequently that led to a most serious crisis. I believe I do not have to elucidate as to that. The worst thing, however, was that this lack of confidence manifested itself in one form, that is he always believed that I was in a sort of conspiracy with the Generals in the army behind his back and that I supported them against him. Perhaps that was a consquence of my habit of defending them in their absence and in various circumstances that led to extra-ordinary difficulty and serious crisis.
Apr-3-A-RT-14-2 can be evaluated, how far you could be considered his collaborator or advisor. Could you tell me whether Hitler, such as is done otherwise in close collaboration, discussed his plans with you?
A To that I have to answer no, in general terms. It did not agree in any way with the whole personality of Hitler to have advisors of that kind, that is if you call an advisor somebody who gives advise. I was an advisor, of course, in the sense of presenting a great number of military elements from long experience as an officer but not in the form of an advisor to help formulate a decision, those far-reaching decisions which are doubtlessly meant here. weeks or months of evaluation. During that period sometimes for days one had to assist by presenting material. But as far as the main point was concerned, the decision itself, there he did not except any influence and therefore it was always so that the final answer was, "This is my decision and nothing can be changed about it." That was the manifestation of his position. decisions, weren't there any discussions together, any conferences?
A No. I cannot remember or recall that any one of the really important decisions after the year 1938 had ever been formulated within the community of a conference, say between the politicians and the soldiers or ministers because it was the peculiarity of Adolp Hitler that each department and each chief of a department was heard alone and Hitler made use of whatever he could get out of those men and to find some element from them that could be used in the elaboration of his plans. But it is not as it may seem if one looks at the documents here of minutes of conference of generals, of meetings and similar things with a list of those present. Never did such a meeting have the character of a deliberation. That is quite out of the question. If the Fuehrer had an idea a certain trend of thought and if for various reasons he thought that there were ideas opposed to his he took that as a reason to explain his thoughts before a larger circle to clarify it. In other words, deliberations within these circles and when these meetings took place never existed. I have to add that the external form in which these things took place was so that, following the military example, the oldest general, the highest ranking general, reported. Then he Apr-3-A-RT-14-3 sat down, the Fuehrer arrived, talked and left.