During a firm guidance of a trial, every May I just say to what my colleague, Dr. Dix, just said, that
THE PRESIDENT: I said on behalf of the Tribunal that we wished
DR. SEIDL (Counself for defendant Frank): I wanted to add some
THE PRESIDENT: It may be possible that everyone of the twenty
DR. SEIDL: I do not know, but I do not think so.
THE PRESIDENT: I said two Counsel, and I meant two Counsel.
DR. SEIDL: Very well.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Justice Jackson, the Tribunal would like to
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I think nothing. I thought I was saving time.
I began to doubt it.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Justice Jackson, I think the Tribunal would like to know exactly how far your suggestion went.
Were you really making anything more than this:
That the defendants' Counsel should to read any document in their document book at this stage?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I thought their document book should be reading.
I would not be particular about if they have passages been excluded.
It would seem to me that they should go in so they to strike or raise it now if they desire.
As far as the United States is concerned, we have no objection to any of it.
I think some of it THE PRESIDENT:
Would you, on behalf of the Chief Prosecutors, Dr. Dix made that we should see how far the defendants' Counsel were further ruling in order to accelerate the trial?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I am quite willing to experiment, but I Honor called Dr. Stahmer's attention at the opening of his case.
I
THE PRESIDENT: I think it is very likely that documents have got into Dr. Stahmer's book by mistake, owing to the fact that he, and I have already drawn attention to it.
There is, I think, in Dr. Stahmer's book--I am not quite sure--a speech of Mr. Paul Boncourt sort of documents to which you are referring, no doubt.
And I have 22nd Mar - M - 10 - O'B - 3
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I am quite ready--and I am sure my
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
You must quite understand, Dr. Stahmer, that I am not making Dr. Dix's suggestion will be adopted or not, because the Tribunal will
DR. STAHMER: Mr. President, may I just add a personal explanation?
The inclusion of the documents which had been burned down in my Book of documents is due to the following facts:
The decision, and that is the explantion.
I was under considerable
THE PRESIDENT: I thought it was probably that, Dr. Stahmer.
The Tribunal will adjourn now until 2:30.
(A recess was taken until 1430 hours.)
THE PRESIDENT: In considering the matters which have been raised this morning, the Tribunal has had in mind the necessity for a fair trail and at the same time far an expeditious trial, and the Tribunal has decided that for the present it will proceed under rules heretofore announced; that is to say: without being read but in introducing them, counsel may summarize them or otherwise call their relevance to the attention of the Court and may read such brief passages as are strictly relevant and are deemed important. that may be offered to it and in this connection, I would refer to the rule which the Tribunal made on the 8th of March 1946, which reads as follows:
"To avoid unnecessary translations, Defense Counsel shall indicate to the prosecution the exact passages in all documents which they propose to use in order that the prosecution may have an opportunity to object to irrelevant passages. In the event of disagreement between the prosecution and the defense as to the relevancy of any particular passage, the Tribunal will decide what passages are sufficiently relevant to be translated. Only the cited passages need be translated, unless the prosecution require translation of the entire document." first of the defendants and who has proclaimed himself to be responsible as the second leader of Nazi Germany, to give his evidence without any interruption whatever and he has covered the whole history of the Nazi regime from its inception to the defeat of Germany. over the same ground in their evidence except insofar as is necessary for their own defense.
as competent evidence, extracts from books or articles expressing the opinions of particular authors on matters of ethics, history, or particular events.
Now, as to tomorrow's business, the Tribunal will sit in open session for the purpose of hearing applications for witnesses and documents, supplementary applications; and after sitting in that open session, the Tribunal will adjourn into a closed session.
Now, Dr. Stahmer.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you going to refer us to a book which is numbered Number 1?
DR. STAHMER: I cannot hear you sir.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you going to refer us to book Number 1? Which is your book? Or are you referring us to your trial brief?
DR. STAHMER: I shall refer to the Trial Brief, Page 5. As far as I am informed, translations will be numbered the same way as the original German text. Page 5, figure 2. Since this book is translated into three other languages, and the document book, as I am informed, is also translated, I can probably refer to them and then only present what I consider important. Tribunal to the fact that Germany had recounced the Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain, and that this was a justified action. Since the reinforcement had taken place, Germany could proceed to rearm and reintroduce general conscription. by Hitler, after he had previously unsuccessfully offered its Army to the powers concerned, from that fact alone the conclusion therefore cannot be drawn that at that time the intention existed to prepare Germany for an aggressive war or plan such a war. In this connection I draw your attention to the fact that in foreign countries too, after 1936, rearmament had taken place to a considerable degree, and so as to prove this fact I have referred to speeches and essays which originated from Churchill's book "Step by Step". The quotations have been mentioned by me . . . . . . I am referring to the following quotations. On page 5 of this book . . . . . .
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Stahmer, you must offer these things in evidence as a matter of formality.
DR.STAHMER: Yes, of course. I have the book here with me. I shall offe it right away and the individual quotations which I included in the document book are here. It is document book 2, page 44 -- that's the first quotation I am referring to. Volume 2, page 44.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you going to number your exhibit in some way? You will call this . . . . . .
DR. STAHMER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: You have numbered it 40 I see, is that right?
DR. STAHMER: Yes. The numbers of this book are . . . . . . They begin right through . . . . . .
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but whatever number you propose to use you must say what the number is when you offer it in evidence so that it will go into the transcript.
DR. STAHMER: Very good, Mr. President. Yes.
"On 18 June the Anglo-German Naval Agreement was signed, which released Germany from the Versailles Naval restrictions. That meant in effect condonation of the breach of military clauses."
On page 35:
"The Air Force is in the process of being almost trebled. This is a colossal expansion which is making the most prodigious demands on our production potentialities. But quite apart from these immediate needs there is the far greater task of so organizing England's home industries that they will be ready to direct the whole of their enormous and elastic capacity into the channels of war production as soon as a serious necessity for that should arise." where is says:
"But it is no longer thus. England has begun to rearm on a large scale. Her wealth and her credit, the solidarity of her organization, her vast resources and connections, all contribute to this revival. The British fleet is still by far the mightiest in Europe. Enormous yearly expenditure on it is under consideration for the future."
Furthermore, evidence is to be provided that particularly Defendant Goering, beginning with the seizure of power, and at various times, consistently emphasized the serious wish to main-t tain peace and to avoid a war.
He has, in fact, repeatedly clearly stated that the measures taken by Germany were not to serve the purposes of aggression. by the defendant Goering, and to begin with I quote from a speech on the 4th of December 1934, which he made at the Krupp works in Essen, and which is contained in the book "Hermann Goering's Speeches and Essays", pages 174 to 176, and is contained in document Book no,1,page18.
THE PRESIDENT (Interposing): I don't think the shorthand writer has yet heard what the exhibit number is.
DR.STAHMER: I beg your pardon. It is Exhibit No. 6 .
THE PRESIDENT: That is the 4th of December 1944?
DR.STAHMER: Yes, December 1934.
THE PRESIDENT: It is 1944.
DR.STAHMER: No, '34. That must be a misprint.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I see.
DR.STAHMER: 1934.
THE PRESIDENT: I see.
DR.STAHMER: I quote -- and it is the last sentence of the first paragraph:
"Today we want to secure this peace, and we want the world to understand that, time and time again, only a Germany with honor guarantees world peace. Only a free German nation will keep this peace and will know how to preserve this peace.
"Therefore, we demand for us the same rights as possessed by the others.
And on the following page, I quote the last paragraph:
"We do not want any war, but we want our honor. We do not discuss this honor with anybody in this world, that is a fact, for it is the foundation for the reconstruction of the entire nation.
Only he who has a sharp sword at his side has rest and peace".
Sir Nevill Henderson emphasizes in his book "Failure of a Mission", at various passages, Goering's love of peace. Quotations are ascertained in Document Book No1, page 63, and I offer it as Exhibit No. 23. I am quoting from page 70 of the book. This is Henderson:
"I was inclined to believe in the sincerity of his personal Goering's personal desire for peace and for a good relationship with England."
On page 83 of the book, it says:
"I should like to give expression here to my belief that the Fieldmarshal, had it been up to him, would not have gambled at the price of war, as Hitler in 1039. As will be mentioned later, he stood decidedly on the side of peace in December 1938." is the following sentence which I quote:
" I saw the Polish Ambassador on August 31.1939 and gave him an objective, moderate report of my conference with Ribbentrop. I mentioned the cession of Danzig and the plebescite in the Corridor as the two main points of the German proposals, observed that on the whole, so far as I could see, they were not too unreasonable, and suggested to him to advise his government immediately to propose a meeting between Lipski and Goering."
quote from the last paragraph:
"Nevertheless, Goering seemed pleased when he returned from the telephone call, and informed us that the latter was on the way to a visit to Ribbentrop, and he was still hoping, apparently, that the war could be avoided, provided that contact could be established." international meeting of war veterans in Berlin, made the following speech, which is contained in the book, "Hermann Goering, the Man and his Works", on page 263, and which is contained in Document Book 2, page 42, which is Exhibit No. 39, and from which I quote the following sentences:
"There are no better defenders of peace than the old war veterans. I am convinced that they, above all ethers, have a right to ask for peace and to shape it. I recognize that those men who, weapon in hand, have gone through four hard years of the hell of the World War, have the primary right to shape the life of the nations, and I know that the war veterans more than anybody else will take care the preserve the blessings of peace for their peoples."
I skip two sentences and then quote:
"But we know that it is a terrible thing, this final argument among nations. It is my fervent and heartfelt wish that this Congress may be able to contribute toward finding the basis for a true peace with honor and equality of rights for all sides. You, my comrades, will have to smooth the way for it " to the questions of the defense. I now read the following passages from this questionnaire, and I offer the original as Exhibit No. 22. It is contained in Document Book No. 1, page 59.
number 3:
"At this conversation did Goering tell you:
"Any German government would consider the following questions:
"a. The Anschluss of Austria and the Sudetenland to Germany;
"b. The return of Danzig to Germany with a reasonable solution of the as an integral part of its policy?
"A Yes.
"Question 4. Did you reply to that, 'But, I trust, without a war'?
"A I said that His Majesty's government desires the peaceful solution of the questions pertaining to Germany and its neighbors. Otherwise I did not discuss those questions.
"Question 5. Has Goering replied to that:
"'That depends very much on Britain. England could contribute much to the peaceful solution of this question. Goering does not want a war on account of that matter, but these questions must be solved under all circumstances.'
"A Yes."
THE PRESIDENT (Interposing): Does that purport to be a verbatim account of what the defendant Goering said? Dod he refer to himself in the third person, "Goering does not want a war", meaning, "I do not want a war"?
DR. STAHMER: He, too, did not want a war. England could contribute much to the solution of this question. He, too, did not wish a war. That means he, Goering. "He" -- Goering -- "does not wish a war, but these questions must be solved under all circumstances."
This is an indirect speech. It means, "I, Goering, do not wish a war but the question must be solved under all circumstances." as far as I can see. It is the question put to Halifax:
"Did you got the impression that Goering's efforts to prevent a war were sincere?"
The answer of Halifax is:
"I have no doubt that Goering would have preferred it, if he could have done it."
At the end of June or July '38, the defendant made a speech at Karinhall to the Gauleiters, which was distinctly a speech for peace. I am referring to a statement from Dr. Ueberreiter of the 27th of February 1946, which I am offering in its original as Exhibit No. 38, and it appears in Document Book No. 2 on page 37.
THE PRESIDENT: You are putting in these originals, are you?
DR. STAHMER: Yes, indeed.
In that statement from Dr. Ueberreiter, dated 27 February 1946, at page 38 in Document Book No. 2, Your Honor, it says:
"On 25 May 1938 -- that is, after the plebiscite concerning the reunion of Austria with Germany which had taken place on 10 April 1938 -- I" -Dr. Ueberreiter -- "was appointed Gauleiter of the Styrian Region, Gau Steiermar* "A few weeks later -- it may have been towards the end of June or the beginning of July 1933 -- the former Field Marshal Hermann Goering called together all Gauleiters of the German Reich at Karinhall.
"He then delivered a fairly long address to the Gauleiters, describing the political situ ation as it presented itself at the time, and discussing in detail the a m and significance of the Four Year Plan.
"Field Marshal Goering first pointed out that foreigners were not very sympathetic toward political developments in Germany, and that because of this there was the danger of Germany being encircled. Directing German foreign policy was therefore a difficult task. For that reason, we had to endeavor to strengthen Germany from the economic and military point of view, thus reducing the danger that Germany might be attacked by a foreign power. At the same time, this would result in Germany again exercising an increasingly important influence in European politics, after she had again become strong.
"After that, Field Marshal Goering discussed the Four Year Flan. In this connection, he remarked:
"By and large, Germany was cut off from the raw material sources of the world.
"She therefore had to open up her own raw material sources in her own territory by dint of increased efficiency. But the only reason for that was to make Germany independent of foreign countries and was not by any means the preliminary preparation to aggressive war.
"He then stressed, with great emphasis, that Germany's foreign policy would have to be conducted in such a way that there could not be a war under any circumstances. The present generation was still feeling the effects of a lost World War; the outbreak of war would stagger the German people. Furthermore, it was his opinion that a new war would spread widely,and even the outcome of a war against France alone would be questionable.
"In conclusion, he summarized his address by saying that we had to do our utmost to make the Four-Year Plan a success, and that all hardships brought on the people by it would have to be borne, and were justified, because success could prevent war.
"May I say that I am remembering all details of this speech so accurately because this was the first time that I had been informed of these conditions, which were so important for Germany, by a leading personality, and because, therefore, up until the beginning of the war I did not believe that war would come about." action of Germany. It was the result of the response to the desires of the greater part of the Austrian population for the Anschluss. The defendant' opinion on this problem can be seen from a telephone conversation held between the then Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop on the 13th of March 1938. The record of this conversation has already been produced on No. 2949-PS. I shall quote from this conversation some passages which have not yet been read into the record and which are contained in Document Book No. 1, pages 55-56. I only propose to quote the following passages:
"I want to say one thing: If it is said"--this is Goering's conversation--"if it is said here that we have overpowered the independence of the Austrian people under pressure, it couldonly be said that one thing infinitely small government.
The Austrian people is only now free. I would simply suggest to Halifax or to a few really important people whom he trusts that he just send then over here so they can look the situation over. They should travel through the country. Then they can see everything."
"Which state in the whole world will be harmed by our union? Are we taking something from any state?"
Then a little later on it says, I think two sentences later on:
"All people are German. All people speak German. Thus there is not a single state involved." only wish to maintain peace abroad; he also applied himself for the preservation of peace at home. I am referring to a speech he made on the 9th of April 1933 at the Berlin Sports Palace. It appears in the book "Hermann Goering: Speeches and Essays," and is document book No. 1, page 35. I am offering it as Exhibit No. 13. I quote the first sentence:
"Volksgenessen (compatriots), on the other hand, however, we also want to be generous. We do not wish to practice petty revenge. After all, we are the victors. Therefore, let us be generous. Let us realise that we, too, thought differently at one time."
And then a little further down:
"...the stronger and freer we feel ourselves as such, the more generously, the more freely are we able to overlook what belongs to the past and really sincerely extend our hand in reconciliation." March 1938, document book No. 1, page 37. This is another quotation from "Hermann Goering: Speeches and Essays." The exhibit number is 14. I quote only one sentence;
"...You were great when you suffered, you were great when you fought, and new you must show that you are also great in kindness, and especially so towards the many who had been misled."
THE PRESIDENT: Doctor Stahmer, can't you give the exhibit number?
DR. STAHMER: Yes, I think it was No. 13. I am going to have a look. It was No. 14. in a number of speeches. For instance, on the 26th of October 1935 he made the following statement. I am quoting from "Hermann Goering: Speeches and Essays," document book 1, page 39, Exhibit No. 15:
I am quoting the sentences as follows:
"It is up to the Church alone whether it wishes to have peace. The Government and the State have never attacked the Church, we have promised the Church protection and we assure them that they have this protection today to the fullest extent. Therefore, it is not a matter about which any kind of reproach could be made." contained in Hermann Goering's "Speeches and Essays", document book one, page 41, Exhibit 16, and I quote the first And second sentences:
"We do not wish to destroy any Church and we do not wish to abolish any belief or religion. All we want is to bring about a clear separation. The Church has its definite, very important and very necessary tasks and the State and the Movement (political movement) have other, just as important and just as decisive tasks." June, 1945, addressed to this Tribunal, which is contained in document book number one, page 44 to 46, and this is Exhibit?
"Hermann Goering himself had an answer given to me through his chief adjutant relative to a petition on behalf of the introduction of an official spiritual service especially for the Luftwaffe; that he could not at the moment do anything because Adolf Hitler had not yet made a final decision concerning the religious question. However, he wished full freedom of religion in the Luftwaffe, including all Christian denominations, and every member of the Luftwaffe could choose for himself whichever chaplain or civilian pastor he desired."
The affidavit from Gauleiter Dr. Veberreiter, dated 27 February, 1946, which I mentioned earlier and which is contained in document book number 1, page 39 -- page 37, under figure 2, refers to the events of the night of the 9th to the 10th of November 1938 and it says:
"A few weeks after the events against the Jews on the night of the 9th to the 10th November, 1938, towards the end of November or the beginning of December, 1938, Field Marshal Goering again called all Gauleiters to Berlin.
He criticized the action in harsh words during this meeting and stated that it had not been in keeping with the dignity of the nation. Further, it had also heavily damaged our prestige abroad. If one interpreted the murder of Consul von Rath an an attack of Jewry against the Reich, then the German Reich had ways of countering such an attack that did not include appealing to the baser instincts. In an orderly state no irregular mob action could be tolerated under any circumstances," And in the last paragraph, unnder number two it says:
"In conclusion, he asks the Gauleiters to use their entire influence to see to it that such incidents which injured Germany would not recur in the future." on that has already been given. becomes apparent from an affidavit of Dr. Lehmann o f the 21st of February, 1946. This is in document bock number one, page 106, Exhibit Number 27. I quote from figure II and it states:
"The opinion I have of him is the following:
"The Reichsmarshal originally took a negative attitude toward lawyers. He was evidently influenced by the Fuehrer. The more he occupied himself with legal matters of the Air Force the more his attitude was changed. Toward the end of the war the Reichsmarshal was one of the high commanders who liked to consult lawyers. He took special interest in the legal matters of the Air Force and attached great importance to them. He assigned to its legal department intricate cases for investigation and he was sceptical of the reports of other offices."
And then in the following:
"In matters where I had contact with the Reichsmarshal he had me thoroughl informed. He took an unusual amount of time in these matters. The conference when there was a difference of opinion, took a quiet and objective course."
Then under Figure III:
"Concerning the administration of justice within the Air Force the Reichsmarshal reserved for himself many cases for his own confirmation of the sentence, including all death-sentences.
"In passing judgment on individual cases, in spite of the harshness of the Fuehrer demanded of all judges, he was still inclined to show occasional leniency. In cases of treason and especially in moral crimes he showed relentless severity. I know from the records that in severe cases of rape he would often quash a sentence because he considered a death sentence as mandatory. It did not matter whether the woman involved was from Germany or from the occupied territories. I believe to remember at least one case in the records where he even changed the manner of execution and ordered that the soldier be hanged in the Russian village in which he had committed the rape.
"When presiding at a trial the Reichsmarshal was very lively but benevolent; also in his recommendations for mercy to the Fuehrer.
"In his own decision the Reichsmarshal, no doubt, often acted intentianally contrary to the thoughts and demands of the Fuehrer, especially in political matters which he judged so much more mildly and in cases of transgression against inhabitants which he judged much more harshly than the Fuehrer.
"I have often discussed the personality of the Reichsmarshal with his legal adviser, a very experienced, quiet and conscientious lawyer as well as the Chief Military Prosecutor (Oberreichskriegsanwalt) who was distinguished by the same qualities and was often with him. We were of one opinion about the Reichsmarshal." so-called "Green Folder", which was submitted under Number 1743-PS. This is not, as the Prosecution maintains, a regulation for the spoliation and destruction of the population. influencing of industry, economy and the regular use of supplies, traffic installations in the territories to be occupied through military operations with special consideration of that fact that Russia had no individual economy but only a state economy, strictly regulated by the state. have to to expected. Nowhere does it contain an order or directive which burdens certain groups of the population with anything beyond the necessities caused by the war.
From that "Green Folder" I have quoted a number of passages which are to prove my statements. I do not want to refer to them in detail but I should like to draw your attention to one very characteristic ruling, where it says, and this is page 94 of this "Green Folder", second paragraph:
