Q. You say you didn't receive the order. What I asked you was : Did you hear of the order ?
A. As the second order came through about the separation, I believe I heard that a previous order had gone out, but it had not been transmitted by many offices of the general command.
Q. This order to kill the Commissars ?
A. We did not receive that order, that is correct, and I was dealing with this order.
Q. No, but when you received the second order, you said you had heard of the other order, and what I wanted to know was if the ether order was the order to kill the Commissars ?
A. I did not quite understand the question.
Q. You said you received a second order to separate the Commissars, and at that time you heard of the first order, What was the first order ?
A. I said that I heard of the first order to kill the Commissars, but only at a period of time when the other order had come through for the segregation.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire now.
DR. PELCKMANN: May I have a word, your Honor ?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly. I thought you were through.
DR. PELCKMANN: In the course of the cross examination of this witness the British and the Russian prosecution, as far as I am able to judge, submitted 20 to 30 completely new documents. Not all of these documents were used in the questioning of this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, the purpose of re-examination is to ask questions and not to argue.
DR. PELCKMANN: Very well, Mr, President, I shall do that. I shall not put any questions dealing with those documents to which I cannot refer in detail. The Prosecution did not put any questions either, and I am of the opinion that these documents could not be used. One document is in the Polish language, and I am sorry I cannot read it and therefore I am not able to put questions about that document.
BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. There is one document, Mr. Witness, which is found in the English language, and which comprises 184 pages, the title of which is "German Crimes in Poland", which I should like to put before you as an example. Will you please read the pester and will you tell me what connection it has with the Waffen SS, and if possible tell the High Tribunal the page on which it is found.
A. This poster is just beyond page 184. It contains an announcement of the SS and Police Leader, and 9t is therefore an organ or an instrument of the Higher SS and Police Leader and, as I have stated repeatedly, has nothing whatever to do with the Waffen SS.
Q. Now I shall have submitted to you another document, 4039-IS, a document about which you were not questioned by the Prosecution. Please tell me what connection this document has with the Waffen SS ?
Q. Here the District Chief of Warsaw, some official who was subordinate to the Governor General, made an announcement which had no connection with the Waffen SS.
Q. Isn't there anything found in this document regarding the Waffen SS ?
A. It says here only that the German Wehrmacht -
Q. I was asking you whether there is anything at all contained in here about the Waffen SS or any other formation of the SS ?
A. I'm sorry I have to give you a decided no for an answer. There is nothing contained herein.
Q. I should further like to submit to you the document 4038-PS. This document was also submitted to you by the Prosecution. Please take your time in reading this document, and then tell me what connection there is between this document and the Waffen SS ?
THE PRESIDENT: What number is that ?
DR. PELCKMANN: It is 4038- PS, Your Lordship.
THE WITNESS: It also is an announcement by the Chief of the Warsaw district who was subordinate to the Governor General of the Government General and has no connection with the Waffen SS.
BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. I should further like to submit Document D-954, as far as I am able to make out; it might be 57. However, this is an interrogation of the 27th of May 1946 of the witness -
THE PRESIDENT (interposing) : I think all these documents speak for themselves, and if they don't refer to the Waffen SS, the Tribunal will take note of that fact.
DR. PELCKMANN: Yes, Mr. President. Then I should like to ask just why these documents were submitted. I am only taking the liberty of referring to the fact that there is no connection. Mr. President, and I might make the same remark about this document as well. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. And can you judge, Witness, whether in this book D-956 which you held in your hands, there is anything dealing with the Waffen SS ?
A. I looked at it but briefly, but I could not see any connection.
Q. You were reminded, witness, of the speech of Himmler at Kharkov. You said on that that this attitude and opinion of Himmler was wrong, that terror had been of use of the troops. Did you express that attitude or opinion to Himmler, and if so, in what way ?
A. On the same day I made known my opinion to Himmler, and as is customary between superior and subordinate, I did this between the two of us.
Q An SS Division "Prinz Eugen" was mentioned. How many divisions of the Waffen SS were there?
A To my knowledge, there, were more than 35 divisions. I believe they numbered higher than that. However, they did not exist at the same time. One of these divisions was the Division "Prinz Eugen", of which I have already said that it contained many racial Germans in its ranks.
Q Is it true also that in this division Serbs and Croats served?
A I can not give you the particulars about that. We had warrior divisions in the Balkans which contained Croats, Slovenians and Moslems.
Q Do you know about the fight in the Balkans? First we are concerned about whether, if this fight was carried on very intensively, atrocities committed by the other side were reported to you. I am not asking this question in order to determine whether and state that the other side committed atrocities; my purpose is only to determine the fact that through single atrocities you cannot draw conclusions as to generalities.
A I had no personal insight into the campaign in the Balkans. But from history I know that even before the First World War, fatalities did occur in the Balkans.
Q Do you know about the Eastern Front; that is, from reports which came to you? I should like to limit myself once more in the same way just so that the intention of my question is quite clear.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, the witness has already told us that he knows nothing about the war in the Balkans, and therefore any questions you put to him will have no significance to us.
DR. PELCKMANN: Yes, Mr. President. I must have misunderstood. That is why I do not wish to inquire any more about the Balkans, but rather turn to the Eastern Front, where the witness had his experiences. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q Mr. Witness, do you understand that I am now turning to the Eastern Front in my question?
A Yes, incidents of that type did take place. And matters like that were collected as they were submitted, I believe, to the Red Cross at Geneva by the commanders of the armies. But I cannot give you particulars.
Q Do you know that reports like that were collected?
that systematically? were systematic.
GENERAL RUDENKO: Mr. President, I would like to make the following brief statement. The defense in the course of the examination has tried more than once, according to data which was published in White Fascist Books, to point out atrocities committed by the opponent; and therefore I consider that the question put by the defense now must be ruled out.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, the Tribunal considers that you have no right to ask this witness for his opinion about these matters. You must confine yourself to asking him questions as to facts, and what he knows do out facts. And you can make any argument about those facts that you like when you come to make your argument. BY DR. PELCKMANN: should like to ask you only the following. If you could see now the deeds which allegedly were committed by the SS, that is, deeds based on these documents and as shown by these documents, would you, despite everything, say that that was not a system but rather that these were single incidents caused by the severity of the battle, and which could have happened partly because of the discipline among foreign elements?
THE PRESIDENT: You should not begin by asking the witness for his opinion. He has already given it to us, you know; he has already said, when he was being cross-examined about those incidents in which the Waffen SS took part, that they were individual instances. He has already said that. BY DR. PELCKMANN: mentioned, according to which a Yugoslav was hanged. If in your troop you had received knowledge of a case like that, would you have taken steps? competent authority, and he is the divisional commander. If I as the commanding general had had reports like that, I should have taken steps, and I should have decreed a judicial procedure. Cases like that did occur several times.
Q You were confronted with the case of Oradur in France. Do you know whether your unit, that is, whether your command, participated in this crime? knowledge about it. In this case, it allegedly deals with an act of a single company leader. That took place at an earlier date, however, and if that had been brought to my knowledge and if the division commander had been subordinate to me, I would have given him the order to start a judicial proceeding.
Q Your unit was deployed in Normandy; is that correct?
AAt the time I led an army; yes.
Q Oradur is not situated in Normandy?
Q Was your unit responsible for this during your time as commander? and cited several quotations to you.
DR. PELCKMANN: I should be very grateful if this document could be put at my disposal so that I could present it to the witness; for just the quotations without seeing the document I do not believe can put the witness in a position to give an intelligent reply.
(A document was handed to Dr. Pelckmann). BY DR. PELCKMANN: This document is only English, and therefore I cannot hand it over to you. But I shall give you several quotations from this document. I shallquote the following:
"The greater German Reich, in its final form, together with its boundaries will not only contain racial units which are well disposed to the Reich, but in our Reich of the future, only police troops will have the necessary authority." tell us to what period of time these statements actually refer.
A I know this order only through oral transmission. It was transmitted to the military offices in order to pacify their misgivings about the expansion of the Waffen SS. This applies only to the future. It speaks of the greater German Reich as the Reich of the future.
But naturally what Hitler meant in particular by this is beyond my knowledge. was to receive police tasks in the future. Was that the basic principle of the Waffen SS during the war?
A No. No. I have to give you "no" for the answer. Perhaps Hitler sought a similar instrument to the one that existed in Austria, where there was a military bounday where the men worked, and in emergencies worked for bounday defense. crimes committed by Waffen SS units was quoted, and on this list one unit is mentioned. The witness was asked whether he knew the commander General Steiner. You said yes to that question, witness?
Q Now I shall read an affidavit. This is one of the affidavits which I shall submit later on. This is Affidavit No. 1, an SS affidavit from which we can see how strictly this Lieutenant General Steiner considered the discipline of his troops. I quote from the middle of this affidavit:
"Our attention had been called to an alleged spy, according to the affidavit of Walter Karlweiss.
"We tried to open the door of the neighboring house, but we were unsuccessful. Thereupon we broke a window, entered the house, and investigated it thoroughly, without, however, finding a Soviet spy. Since we had only to realize that to had made a mistake, we left the house by the way in which we had entered it, and to regretted very much having broken a window pane.
"Two hours later, two Oberscharfuehrer were there when we were arrested. We asked the policemen for the reason of our arrest. They replied that the Ukraine owner of the house which we had searched had complained because of the broken window pane and complained to the divisional staff, and that the commander of the division, General Steiner, had decreed a strict investigation of this case at once before the Divisional Court, and Ernst Kugel and I were interrogated singly by an officer of the rank of Hauptsturmfuehrer.
"The judge said that according to the latest decree of the general, a de cent and clean deportment towards the Ukraine population had been laid down as our duty.
Together with my comrade Kugel I had violated this rule, since without permission and order, we had entered this Ukraine home."
"After this case had been cleared up in this matter, the judicial officer drew up a transcript and charged me with transmitting this record to General Steiner. He commented on my report, and these were his words:
'It is very well that your behavior was clean; otherwise you would have been severely punished. General Steiner charged me with reporting to him personally about the investigation, but I am happy that I did not have to give him any bad reports about his men. And apart from that, tell all your comrades Vicking is fighting chivalrously and cleanly.'" that first of all this was the basic attitude of General Steiner and his troops, and secondly that it was the basic attitude of the Waffen SS, who were stationed at the front, as well as of the Waffen SS who operated behind the lines?
SS. I know his strict opinion which is stated here. Whether it was a window pane and whether a judicial process is necessary in a case like that, that is a point I would not know. But as a basic principle, this opinion was held by the old leaders of the Vorfuegungstruppe and of the Waffen SS, and this view was hold from the beginning.
DR. PELCKMANN: I beg your pardon, Your Lordship. There are so many documents, but there is only one more which I should like to make the topic of my re-examination. deposed by Dr. Stanislaw Piotrowski is among that number, deposed on the 29th of July, 1946, right here in Nurnberg. I should like to suggest that this witnessbe called for cross examination before the High Tribunal. I should like to make this application, for it is quite obvious that this witness is present here and there would be no reason to satisfy ourselves with an affidavit.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the number of the document?
DR. PELCKMANN: No. D-939, Your Lordship.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, hadn't you better finish with the witness first and then make your motion afterwards, if you want to make a motion about cross examination.
DR. PELCKMANN: I have no further questions to put to this witness, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may retire.
DR. PELCKMANN: I beg your pardon, Your Lordship. I have made a mistake. It is not Dr. Piotrowski; it is Israel Eisenberg. That is the name of the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: D-939?
DR. PELCKMANN: Yes.
M. FUSTER: Mr. President, night I ask a question to make something clear?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it is very inconvenient to do it at this late stage. Why didn't you do it before?
M. FUSTER: It is not very important, My Lord. I will withdraw it.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. The Tribunal will adjourn now.
(A recess was taken.)
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Elwyn Jones, the Tribunal understands that the Witness, who is -
MR. ELWYN JONES: Israel Eisenberg.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Is he present in Nurnberg?
MR. ELWYN JONES: He is nowin Stuttgart, My Lord, and is available to be called if the Tribunal thinks it is necessary.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the Tribunal thinks, unless there is some particular objection, in view of thenature of the evidence, that possibly he ought to be called for cross examination.
MR. ELWYN JONES: The prosecution has no objection to make at all provided that we have additional time to got the witness here.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, then, will you have him brought hare as soon as possible?
MR. ELWYN JONES: Yes, Your Lordship.
DR. PELCKMANN: I shall now call the witness Reinecke.
GUENTHER REINECKE, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Will you state your fullname, please?
Q Will you repeat this oath after no? sworn, -- the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the truth and will withhold and add nothing. (The witness repeated the oath) BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q Mr. Witness, what position did you occupy in the SS? Court and Chief Judge of the Supreme SS and Police Court.
Q Did you have legal training?
In 1931 I passed my first State examination and in 1934 I passed the SS examination Which entitled me to occupy the position of a judge. In 1933 I became Doctor of Law at Munich. carried out in special schools? special schools. The SS judges came from positions in the general legal world and before the war they Were high legal personalities, judge advocate generals, lawyers, or during the war they came from the courts of the armed forces and were transferred to the courts of the SS. of the construction and work of the units and groups, the chief of which was Himmler, and which one night describe generally as the SS?
A Yes. For nearly ten years I worked in the legal system of the SS. From that sector I occupied myself with the development of the construction and with the activity of the entire SS, the chief of which was Himmler. I occupied myself with it to a considerable extent. From that point of view I gained a very considerable knowledge and from that point of view I can give my testimony here. entire life of the State. In this connection, the numerous positions and powerful positions are referred to which the so-called Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler had held. Is it the case that whore the Reichsfuehrer SS is acting that the SS, generally speaking, is meant?
A No, Heinrich Himmler united himself in a number of powerful positions in the Party and the State, and finally, the Armed Forces.
He was Reichsfuehrer SS with the chief of the German Police; also, he was Reich Minister of the Interior. German Nationalism; he was chief of the reserves of the Armed Forces; he was chief of the prisoner-of-war system, and finally, he was the Supreme Commander of the two Army Groups. All of these powers and positions had nothing to do with his position of the Reichsfuerer of the SS. His nominations to the positions of power took place because of orders from above and because of his suitability, and for reasons which can be traced back to his personality and not because he was Reichsfuehrer SS. Any connection between the SS and these positions of power held by Himmler does not exist. ing emphasized in the indictment, and it was alleged that here the SS had been active. These were his position as the Reichsfuehrer of the SS, Chief of the German Police, and Reich Commissioner for the Strengthening of German Nationalism, and also Chief of the Prisoner-of-War System. with the activities of the organization of the SS? the SS where Himmler, in his capacity as the Reichsfuehrer SS was acting in connection with the SS. As the Chief of the German Police, he had been given a task which was entirely a part of the State. His commission for the Strengthening of German Nationalism is entirely an affair of the Reich. His position as the chief of the Prisoner-of-War System on the other hand, is entirely an affair of the Armed Force.
laws, it would have to be mentioned in the transfer of all tasks which were assigned to Himmler, the phrase Reichsfuehrer SS.
How did that happen ?
A That is correct. Reichsfuehrer SS was the first position hold by Himmler at the beginning of his career. It is typical usage of language in the National Socialist Reich not to use the name of persons, but to refer to them by title of their position. That usage can be found in numerous laws by the persons as such which, by that, the organization is not meant. As in many economical political laws, in order to give an example, Hermann is called a Reich Marshal, something which happened very often. That was not to say also that the German airforce was acting in an economic political matter.
Q You have just mentioned organizations. Organizations--plural-- of the SS. As you know, your statement, your testimony before the Commission is already in the hands of the Tribunal, in which you said one could recognize 5 different units which had been mentioned by the Prosecution and had been collected as one long unit. The General SS, Waffen SS, SD, Police, and System of concentration camps. what do you want to state in your statement that that these were independent organizations ? will you start with the Allgemeine SS--the General SS ? ical Party. They remained a part of the political Party until 1938. It disappeared at the beginning of the war. At that time, 70% of the members of the General SS changed over to temporary service, some in the armed forces, a smaller percentage of which was serving in the armed forces. But, even the remaining 30% were entirely caught up by the armed forces that the general SS, in wartime, had practically disappeared. The General SS had, at no time, received tasks from the state, nor did it carry out any tasks on behalf of the state. Its members were the remaining civilians who only were uniforms when they were on duty--that took place twice weekly, quite often on Sundays--and it was in order to keep order during party Meetings.
It was sports and it was training. General SS was the backbone of the entire SS, which consisted of General SS, Waffen SS, and concentration camp duties. Is that correct ? to the historical development of the General SS. The General SS was not a reserve from which the other name organizations were drawing their forces and supplanting them. The General SS partly had no connection to the other organizations named. eral SS had not only had a punitive organization, but that it had infiltrated the organization of the apparatus of the States, is that correct ?
A No, that again is not correct. Although it is correct that high persons in the General SS were occupying positions in the State, such as the position of the President of the Police, and it is also correct that such personalities occupied positions in industrial firms. It is, nevertheless, concerned with appointments which are connected with the persons of the nominated individuals but not the organization as such. Might I remind you that particularly, the position of Police President during the first years after 1933 was mostly not at all occupied by members of the SS, but was staffed by members of the SA. In fact, the General SS was infiltrated by such strange persons and organizations. Himmler appointed people to positions in the State and Economy and made them honorary members of the SS without the people being connected with the SS as such. In 1936, for instance, the so-called Kiefhaueser Union of soldiers was taken over into the SS by Himmler, but it had never had anything to do with the SS at any time and it had volunteered under the organization of the SS. You will find the same picture in 1938. There, Himmler is awarding honorary ranks first, to the Order Police, and the Security Police, whom he appointed, to a certain rank and give them uniforms of police organizations, but they were entirely separate from the General SS and had tasks completely foreign to the General SS.
in the General SS called honorary leaders ? I have just been referring. never did duty in the SS ? of their position, were given ranks and the right to wear a uniform. But they themselves had never done a single day's duty in the General SS and they would have had no contact with the members of the actual SS. This, generally speaking, is the concept of the honorary leaders in the SS. ers who had no official contact or duty with the SS as being Hess, Ribbentrop, Von Neurath, Sauckel ? honorary leaders in the SS as I have described them ?
Q Did they have the power to issue orders ? ly received the right to wear the uniform. Any power to issue orders was not given to them. SS. What is the situation there ? ual organization and it remained as such until the end of the war. It began in the so-called Special Disposal Group. They were connected to the General SS because from the General SS recruits were transferred to the Special Disposal Group, and the Special Disposal Groups were joined by German citizens who got into it through other organizations of the Party and other citizens who were not connected with the Party.
****** the contact which was loosened initially.
The Waffen SS became an independ ent organization, which can be expressed by the fact that members of the General SS and members of the Party who are serving in the Waffen SS, find that their memberships in the General SS and the membership in the Party becomes dormant for that period, but it is typical that even the highest leader in the General SS does not by any means join the Waffen SS with the same rank he has in the General SS but that in the Waffen SS he is treated exactly as any other citizen; in other words, he is beginning as a recruit. The difference, as proof for my allegation that we are concerned with an independent organization, also lies in the fact that in thecase of the criminal proceedings of the General SS, the NSDAP would appear whereas in the civil proceedings of the Waffen SS organization, the German Reich would act. on one side and the SD on the other?
A In this case, no connection whatever existed; during the war it had developed into an independent intelligence service even in 1934, it became an independent organization which had nothing whatsoever to do with the] General SS and the Waffen SS. It merely had the joint contact with Himmler.
Q Was the relationship between the Waffen and the General SS complete? case. The Waffen SS had a typically military character and its work was just military; that is to say, during the entire war it was at the front. Any connection to these can therefore not possibly be established but the General SS also had no direct organization with the police. The police was an organization of the State and it had its orders from the state; the appointment of high offices, high-ranking officers in the General SS and in the Higher SS and police leader, again, indicates no organic connection whatever between the two organizations. The Higher SS and Police Leader in that particular position had no power to issue orders to the General SS because he was at the same time the head of another sector of the SS but, on the other hand, he had not got the right to issue orders to the police either. Members of the police have in fact issued by external difference -- not worn an SS uniform at any time.
There is a connection between the General SS and the Waffen SS on one side and the Security Police on the other. As I have already stated, in 1938 the Security Police quite suddenly received the right to wear the SS uniforms and their ranks were coordinated with the SS. That, however, does not indicate that there was any connection with the organization of the General SS. The Security Police had no connection with the State and the General SS on the other hand never had any powers ; he cannot carry cut arrests nor can he carry out confiscations nor can he carry out any other executive function. It is obvious that particularly at the beginning of the war and during the war the Security Police, as far as their external appearances were concerned, became more and more secret and that, too, the wearing of the uniform and we are concerned with the period--
THE PRESIDENT: Is it possible that this evidence could have been given at greater length before the Commission ? Did you hear what I said ?
DR. PELCKMANN Yes, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: You can shorten it.
DR. PELCKMANN: Yes, I shall shorten it. The witness has already come to the end of that particular part of his testimony.
THE PRESIDENT: You have been asked over and over again to shorten the evidence and you seem to me to be making no effort to do it.
DR. PELCKMANN: I have considered it myself, only to clear up the question of the Higher SS and police Leader in particular in great detail because that question is so utterly intricate for anyone who doesn't know Germany and for us Germans. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. What did the Higher SS and Police Leader have to do with the General SS in Occupied Territories ?
A. Nothing at all, nothing whatsoever, because in Occupied Territories there wasn't any General SS at all. The General SS was an institution for Germans citizens and for that reason, it didn't exist in Occupied Territories. The Higher SS and Police Leader in Occupied Territories was carrying out entirely only police functions, without having any connection or ties with General SS and that for the reasons which I have described, couldn't have ha it.
Q. Wasn't there any General SS in the Occupied Territories ?
A. As I have just told you, the General SS was a unit, an organization of a political party, in which unit German citizens were exempt -- in Occupied Territories, and for that reason the General SS could not exist.
Q. Is it correct, therefore, for me to say that perpetrations, in fact, crimes of the Higher SS and Police Leader in the Occupied Territories , coul not concern the General SS and incriminate them at all ?
A. That is certainly and absolutely correct
Q. I should like to make the discussion of a document. During the recess. I have given you, Mr. Witness, a document and perhaps you would be good enough to state the number of the document to the High Tribunal. It is the document which was put to the witness von Eberstein yesterday.
A. It is document 4-24 -PS. It is correspondence between the Higher SS and Police Leader in the Operational Zone, Adriatic post, Globocnik with Heinrich Himmler and with Oswald Pohl.
Q. Has it been possible for you to ascertain from the document, in which capacity the author of these letters was acting; was he acting in his capacity as HigherSS and Police Leader in Trieste or was he acting as Higher SS and Police Leader in Lublin, as far as you can remember ?
A. The document shows quite clearly that Globocnik, in this case, was act. as SS and Police Leader in Lublin and not as Higher SS and Police Leader Adriatic Post. This is contained actually in the document itself. I myself, know from my own activity that at the end of 1943 and at the beginning of 1944, Globocnik was relieved as SS Leader in Lublin and that he was given the post of Higher SS and Police Leader in the early personnel. So far the state of the document appears incorrect. The date of the document is to 5th of January 1943 but that may be an error. It would have to be in 1944 as the letter head shows.
Q. Would Globocnik's activities, described in this document, implicate the General SS; that is to say, did Globocnik as the leader of the General SS carry out the activities which he is describing ?A. It is obvious, as it becomes clear from the document, here, that Globocnik was acting in his position as SS and Police Leader and that we are here concerned with the secret special task which was given him in the socalled action "Reinhart". Here he is acting entirely in the police executive sector.
Any connection between that work with the organization of the General SS or even any one of its members, cannot in any way exist.
Q. Are you drawing the conclusion, namely, that we are here concerned withthe special direct order and task from Himmler on the strength of the face that the report is addressed to Himmler directly and not as it ought to have been -- is addressed via the Higher SS and Police Leader at Krakow, Krueger ?
A. That is quite true but it also becomes apparent from other circumstance contained in the correspondence. The special task issued in the correspondence; furthermore, the correspondence is headed "Secret Reich Matter" and furthermore, it is mentioned on the document that this secret Reich matter only existed in four, copies and the copy sent to Himmler, to Globocnik is No. 1, the original.
Q You are still reading from document 4024?
6 Aug A LJG 20-1 It appears to me that it shows perfectly clearly who was occupied with these Matters, and by whose orders and whose authority Globocnik was acting. "Reinhardt" was subdivided into four territories. Firstly, resettlement, secondly, use of labor, thirdly, use of materials, fourthly, the hidden values and real estate. It also shows that Globocnik was only communicating with Oswald Pohl personally, except with Himmler, in this case. Pohl was Chief of the Administration Department, when Globocnik was Chief of the Adjutant Department.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the point of all this evidence? We have the documents before us.
DR. PELCKMANN: Yesterday this document was shown to the Higher SS and Police Leader in the Reich, von Eberstein, in order to prove with it, through Globocnik's action, who had also the title of Higher So and Police Leader, and to show that abroad, Higher SS and Police Leaders were committing crimes, and also to prove that the General SS was also implicated in these crimes. Because of the view of the prosecution, I am trying to show that Higher SS and Police Leaders were simultaneously acting on behalf of the General SS. This witness. Reinecke as a high Judge, can judge the entire organization of the Higher SS, and he is in a position to state whether this impression of the prosecution is correct.
THE PRESEDENT: Surely he can say so without going all this time on this document. If he wanted to say whether Globocnik was acting on behalf of the SS, or was not, why does he not say so and get done with it? experience, with the organization of the SS , as we have been able to judge it , and you say that Globocnik was acting on be-6 Aug A LJG 20-2 half of the WAffen-SS and by its order, or whether he was acting on behalf of the General SS?