Q Did you not think it was right to ask them?
A Of course. I always asked because as a former member, I was still interested in what was going on. As to having some recollection of an individual speech, I was not interested. of honor and decency, you know. Did you knew, for instance, of the mass murder of the leaders of the Polish nation by the SS?
A That cannot be possible. I read a great deal of the training material of the SS. I did not read any request to commit such mass murders. made to the officers of your own regiment. I refer to 1918 PS, Exhibit US 304. "Very frequently the member of the Waffen-SS thinks about the deportation of this people here. These thoughts came to me today when watching the very difficult work out there performed by the Security Police, supported by your men, who help them a great deal. Exactly the same thing happened in Holland in weather 40 degrees below zero, where we had to haul away thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands; where we had to have the toughness -- you should hear this but also forget it again immediately -- to shoot thousands of leading Poles, where we had to have the toughness, otherwise it would have taken revenge on us later," Are you saying that you did not know that Himmler said that to your regiment?
A In the first place, I did not know it. In the second place, as far as I have heard, no members of the Waffen-SS did that. Himmler said "we." I do not know who this "we" is. As far as I heard, that is not shown by the speech.
Q Himmler was addressing the officers of your regiment. The SS Leibstandarte, Adolf Hitler told them that the murders shall be the work of the Security Police, namely, your men, the men of your regiment. That is perfectly clear, is it not?
A No. That is not clear. which you are apparently being inculcated. At page 10 of the German text of Himmler's speech; page 3 of the English text, you will see how Himmler -- you need not trouble to read it at the moment -- you will see how Himmler was telling your regiment of the SS that out of the slave labor of the victims of his organization, money was to be raised for the benefit of the SS men.
I will read to you what he said.
THE PRESIDENT: We have had this document read before, I think.
MR. ELWYN JONES: Yes, My Lord. I am only going to refer to two sentence of it.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness said he was not here.
MR. ELWYN JONES: That is so, My Lord. What I am suggesting in that this was an address to the officers of his own regiment. At the showing before the Commissioner, It was indicated he joined a month later.
BY MR. ELWYN JONES.
Q When did you rejoin the Leibstandarte, Mr. Witness? In 1941?
Q Did you rejoin it again- in 1941? Leibstandarte. the officers of it?
A I do not know exactly when Himmler's speech was. MR. ELWYN JONES: If it is not desired that I should put the document to the witness, I certainly should not do so against the wish of the Tribunal. THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would, rather you did not. personnel of the Waffen-SS, were used in anti-partisan activity?
A No. I did not know that the Waffen-SS was particularly used against the partisans. On the basis of my position, I know that the Waffen-SS was often subordinate to army units and here, perhaps in exceptional cases, was employed, in anti-partisan activities. On the whole, however, the Waffen-SS with its divisions was at the front. I know nothing of the special partisan units of the Waffen-SS. ruthlessness or political fanaticism, the Waffen-SS was used. Is that not so?
A I do not know that, I know nothing about it. Please give me an example so I can comment on it.
Duce, in the Palazzio Venezzio, on the 23 of October, 1942 I am referring to the document D 729, Exhibit GB 281. He described Germany's method in fighting the Partisans.
Q I'll tell you what Field Marshal Goering said about it to the Duce in the Palazzo Venezzia on the 23rd of October, 1942 I am referring to the Document D/729, Exhibit GB-281, "...The Reichsmarshal described Germany's method in fighting the partisans."
He describes the taking away of livestock and the other details of the technique that was advocated; and then Goering says, "Germany had experienced that, generally speaking, soldiers were no use in carrying out such measures. Members of the party discharged this task much more harshly and efficiently."
If you'll be good enough to listen to me reading it, Witness, it will come over the headphones, "Members of the party discharged this task much more harshly and efficiently. For the same reason armies that were strengthened by a political creed such as the German (or the Russian) fought much more energetically than others. The SS, the guard of the old fighters of the Party who have personal ties with the Fuehrer and who form a special elite, confirm this principle."
That's correct, isn't it, Witness?
A I don't know whether the Reichsmarshal gave any order to combat partisanship. What the Prosecutor has just read is a statement of opinion to another statesman. I see no orders in that to the Waffen SS; and for that reason I maintain my testimony that the Waffen SS as a unit was not used for combatting partisans.
MR. ELWYN JONES: if it please your Lordship, in view of the evidence which is before the Tribunal on the employment of the Waffen SS and on its pay measures, I am not going to proceed with the cross examination as to the general matter with which this witness dealt. The Court has indicated that it doesn't desire me to put matters which should be put in cross examination before the Commissioners and under those circumstances, I have no further questions to ask but I will take my cross examination before the Commissioners for the purposes of the Tribunal.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: I am going to ask a very few short questions with your permission. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV: learned about the killings in the concentration camps? killings in the concentration camps? killings that were carried out. The defense counsel told me. I do not deny it. within the concentration camp who took care of the administration? Was it the Waffen SS? the Nominal Waffen SS were in the Kommandanturs; but there is a clear order of the high command of the Waffen SS which I have already mentioned. It is included in the army circular of December, 40, to the effect that members of the Totenkppf formation do not do any military service in the sense of the SS.
Q I would like to ask you to be more concise. So you contend that the military Kommandanturs in concentration camps were not under the Waffen SS? The Kommandanturs were not under the command of the Waffen SS; but members of the Waffen SS were in the Kommandanturs. There is a distinction.
Q But the Waffen SS were not in charge of the Kommandanturs?
Q Another question. Before I refresh your memory on this question, is it the staff of the Waffen SS who is responsible for the crimes committed in the concentration camps?
for the guards, personnel, and the Kommandanturs of the concentration camps; and this inspector was responsible, as far as I know, for all concentration camps.
Q What was the rank of Gluecks? Do you know that name? the concentration camps.
Q I must ask you, what is his military rank? Was he a general Waffen officer?
A I believe he was a Lt. General of the Waffen SS.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Sir, please allow me in order to refute the words of the witness to present a document which, although it is a private document, has an exceptional evidential value. I am speaking now of an order of the General major of the Waffen SS, Gluecks about the utilization of human hair in the concentration camps. If the Tribunal please, while evidence was presented concerning the Auschwitz concentration camps, when it was mentioned that the hair of hundreds of thousands of women was utilized for commercial aims, we did not know at that time what was the aim of the utilization of this hair; but now we have evidence about the utilization in this document.
Now I am quoting: "Secret. So-General Economical and Administrative Department, Department D., Concentration Camps. Oranienburg, August 6, 1942. Copy Number 13. Re: Utilization of cut hair. To: Concentration Camp Kommandants." And then the thirteen concentration camps are mentioned. I skip it.
"The Chief of the Central Economical and Administrative Department of the SS, SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, on the basis of a report submitted to him, orders that all human hair cut in concentration camps be accordingly utilized. Human hairs are spun into industrial felt and yarn. Out of combed and cut hair of women, hair-yarn stockings for u-boat crews are made, as well as hair-felt stockings for the Reich railways.
"Therefore , I order that the hair of women prisoners after due disinfection be collected. Cut hair of male prisoners must be utilized beginning with 20 millimeters length.
"SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl therefore gave his consent that in the way of experiment the hair of male prisoners should be cut only when they reach a length of 20 millimeters.
"In order to avoid facilitating escape in connection with the increase of length of hair, in all cases here the Kommandant finds it necessary the prisoners should be marked in the following manner; a strip should be clipped by means of a narrow clipper through the hair.
"The hair gathered in all the camps will be utilized by creating a special production unit in one of the concentration camps.
"Here detailed instructions as to the delivery of stores of hair will be given separately.
"Reports on amount of hair gathered each month, male and female recorded separately, must be submitted on the 5th of each month, beginning with the 5th of September, 1942.
"Signed: Gluecks, SS-Brigade-Fuehrer and General major of the Waffen-SS." Waffen SS Kommandantur, Sachsenhausen. Do you still continue to say that the Kommandanturs of the concentration camps were not on the budget of the Waffen SS?
A Yes. I will explain that. The Kommandanturs of the Waffen SS, The Kommandanturs of the concentration camps, were in the nature of the Waffen SS.
Q So they were among the SS troops, weren't they?
A I said they were on the budget of the Waffen SS; but it was necessary for economic reasons when organizations were to be mentioned by the Kommandanturs, which had the possibility of working with Reich funds and with the Reich authorities.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: For clarity, on this question, may I draw your attention to the sentence where it is said, "Kommandantur K.L., Sachenhausen, Waffen SS." My word is confirmed that the Waffen SS was in charge of the Kommandantur. I have no more questions to ask.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you want to re-examine?
DR. PELCKMANN: I will ask the next witness about what I am asking now in one final question. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q Did you ever hear the expression "Nominal Waffen SS"?
A Yes. The expression "Nominal Waffen SS" was used by us for the guards, personnel, and Kommandanturs of the Waffen SS. As far as these Kommandanturs were in the Waffen SS at all, we called them the Nominal Waffen SS. Within the Waffen SS I already explained on the regulation for replacement, we had the Nominal Waffen SS, that is, the troops; and then on the economic budget of the Waffen SS, we had various formations which, at the order of Himmler, were put to be so that they could enjoy the advantages of the Waffen SS in regard to treatment by authorities and so forth. the Nominal Waffen SS? Kommando Amt of the Waffen SS unless they were under the Army; and this inspector of the concentration camps was not under the Kommandant of the Waffen SS and received no orders from them. The inspector of the concentration camps Gluecks office had its own channel of commend. As far as I know, it received its mail independently, and so forth; and as far as I know, it was not even connected with the WVHA., of which it was an Amtsgruppe. Thank you. BY THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle)
Q Witness, you said that the *-*mandanture were within the budget of the Waffen SS, Did you mean on the budget of the Waffen SS?
Q Of the Waffen SS?
Q And was the Inspectorate of concentration camps also on the budget of the Waffen SS?
Q How were the Waffen SS paid in the first place? Were they paid in the same manner as the Wehrmacht?
Q Were they paid the same amounts? separate budget?
Q What do you mean "yes"? Was it in the budget of the Wehrmacht, or was it a separate budget? that is, from the budget of the Wehrmacht. army, is that right?
A Yes, that's right. you were part of the Wehrmacht? He wanted a Waffen SS, a special troop.
Q You had separate uniforms, did you not? You had different uniforms from the Wehrmacht?
A We had the same uniforms, only different insignia. That is, we had the same shoulder insignia, only in addition we had stars and stripes which the Wehrmacht did not have. to Himmler's command?
A We weren't under Himmler's orders at all. Up to 1939 SS Verfuegungstruppe were under Hitler' orders; and then the Waffen SS was also under Hitler's orders as commander-in-chief of the Wehrmacht.
Q. Did Himmler have anything to do with the Waffen SS?
A. Yes. For example, Himmler had the right to inspection; he had the right to make promotions, and as regards administration and care of the troops, and as far as I know in legal matters, Himmler had an influence. That was his office.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire.
DR. PELCKMANN: Your Lordship, we clear up the question which the Tribunal has just asked, I consider it necessary to call the head of WVHA, the witness Puhl.
THE PRESIDENTL Is he one of was witnesses that have been allowed to you?
DR. PELCKMANN: It is not one of these witnesses. I only want to prepare orally for my written application which I shall hand in.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks you had better call your next witness, Dr. Pelckmann.
DR. PELCKMANN: The next witness will testify on the questions that you asked the last witness. I shall give my sugg estion for the cross-examination of the witness Puhl in writing.
PAUL HAUSER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Will you state your full name, please?
A. Paul Hauser.
Q. Will you repeat this oath after me? truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath)
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. When were you born?
A. I was born on the 7th of October, 1830.
Q. You were a professional soldier?
A. Yes
Q. When did you leave the Wehrmacht?
A. On the 1st of February, 1932, I left the Reichswehr as a lieutenant general.
Q. How did you come to the SS?
A. In 1933, as a non-party member, I joined the Stahlhelm.
Q. Please speak more slowly, witness.
A. In 1934 I was transferred to the SA reserve with this organization. After the events in the summer of 1934, I was asked by Himmler whether I would be willing to take over the establishment and direction of an officecandidate school. I accepted this assignment, and in November, 1934, I joined the Verfuegungstruppe.
Q. At what time and in what position did you acquire the knowledge which enabled you to appear here and testify as a witness for the SS?
A. From Easter, 1935, to the summer of 1936, I directed the school. Then I was inspector of the Verfuegungstruppe from 1936 to 1939. During the war, for two years in each capacity, I led an SS division and an SS Panzer Corps, and then from 1944 on, in the army, I was employed as commander-inchief of an army group. times and on the Waffen SS during the war, as far as I knew it personally; and it was under my orders. I did not know the General SS. During the war I was not employed at the Central Office.
Q. What was your last rank in the Waffen SS?
A. I was colonel-general of the Waffen SS.
Q. What was your last position?
A. At the beginning of 1945 I was commander-in-chief of Army Group B
Q. About how many divisions were under you at that time?
A. This Army Group had 20 to 30 divisions, only two of which belonged to the Waffen SS.
Q. How did you as general of the Waffen SS come into a leading position in the Army?
A. That was a result of close cooperation between the Army and the Waffen SS. On the basis of my previous experience with the Army, my employment in that capacity was suggested.
Q. Go back to the beginning. When was the Verfuegungstruppe created? How strong was it, and how did it become?
A. The beginning of the Vorfuegungstruppe went into the year 1933. In this year, the Leibstandarte was created as a sort of body guard for Adolf Hitler. Following that, individual battalions were formed more for representational purposes. Only at the very beginning, in 1933 and 1934, were men of the General SS used. Later the very youngest of the age-groups subject military duty were recruited.
Q. What was the strength in 1976, and as an example, in 1939?
A. In 1936, there were three infantry regiments and three battalions. In 1939 there were four infantry regiments, one artillery regiment, and three technical battalions.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks this would be a convenient time to break off.
(A recess was taken)
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn at half past four this afternoon. BY DR. PELCKMWSN:
Q. Witness, what was the purpose and the task of the so-called Verfuegungstruppe? Was it to serve as a new armed force alongside the Wehrmacht?
A. The aim and the task could be seen from the basic decrees of Hitler of August 1938. According to those decrees the Verfuegungstruppe was to belong neither to the Wehrmacht nor to the Police. It was to form a standing troop at the disposition of Adolf Hitler and it was paid from State monies. The training was supervised by the High Command of the Army and replacements were to be taken from volunteers of the youngest age group.
Q. Through that was the Verfuegungstruppe to be a political nucleus? The Prosecution accuses it of being a special instrument for the oppression and doing away with of political opponents and of having been a weapon for the realization of Nazi trains of thought.
A. That is not true. The Verfuegungstruppe had neither political nor police tasks. It developed eventually into a test troop which had to watch and observe all the old soldierly virtues, to begin them with modern times, the relationship between officers and enlisted men, do away with the different without certain examinations, and for the doing away with any and all exclusiveness.
Q. Were the members of the Verfuegungstruppe expected to give blind obedience?
A. No. They swore obedience and loyalty to Adolf Hitler and to superiors, but an unconditional obedience which would have included crime was not expected and was not sworn to.
Q. The prosecution is accusing the Verfuegungstruppe particularly of having incited racial hatred and the fight against the Jews and that these two tasks were its special ones. Was the troop trained that way?
A. This education could only have been carried through by training. I, personally, as leader of the candidate school as well as an inspector of this training, for I myself was a new man and had to orient myself to the new processes of thought.
I can tell you that race hatred and extermination of Jewry of the eastern peoples was never taught and was never demanded.
Q. According to the prosecution, this troop served the purpose of preparation for an aggressive war. Was their predominance in Germany through terror and the conquering of all Europe, was that taught?
A. These young troops needed time and peace for admission as candidates. Their commanders were veterans of the First World war without exception. They knew war and they knew that it had brought misery and misfortune to us once already. Terror on an unknown scale and conquering of small countries was completely foreign to this young troop.
Q. From the development and the building up of this Verfuegungstruppe, without considering the re-establishment of conscription in 1936, that through this troop a breach of the Treaty of Versailles was being hoped for?
A. Before the re-establishment of conscription, this troop had 45,000 men only and could come into consideration for neither a defensive nor an offensive, war. They had no divisional staff, they had no general staff; they had no replacement of man or officers. There was no preparation for a war of aggression: we were not ready.
THE PRESIDENT: "Witness, could you speak in a slightly lower tone of voice? The sound of your voice interferes with the sound of the interpreter's voice coming through to us.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. BY DR. PELCKMANN:
Q. what task did you personally have as inspector of the Verfuegungstruppe?
A. I was not commander with the power to issue orders and commands but rather I was an inspector responsible for training of the troop. Beyond that, I received executive orders from Himmler on questions of organization.
Q. Did the replacements consist of volunteers and where did they came from? what were the motives for their joining?
A. Until the beginning of the war replacements came from volunteers only.
In the first years, that is in 1933 and 1934, they came from the General SS.
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, may I remind you once more to speak a little lower and a little less loud. Otherwise the voices will cross in the translation. And please speak a little more slowly as well.
A. The volunteers were recruited in the entire country from their applications, which were present in many cases. Questions of ideology were not decisive. Men who wanted to serve in military service in the various units and especially in motorized units.
Q. What relationship existed between the Verfuegungstruppe and the many other various branches of the organization which was under Himmler's uniform command?
Q. What can you tell us about the task of the Death's Head units?
A. The tasks of the Death's Head units were contained in the basic decree of August, 1938 and with varying degrees and at times they furnished guards for the concentration camps. They had no entrance to the inside of the camp. Their replacements were recruited among the German youth or among men who had already served their period of military service. Their training was not supervised by the armed forces but on the whole was rather soldierly.
Q. Did service in the Death Head unit correspond or was it equal to service in the armed forces?
A. No, that was not the same and it did not serve the same purpose.
Q. And these young volunteers who were recruited, did they know that they were to be used to supervise and guard concentration camps?
A. I do not have an insight into the recruiting of the Death Head units. but I do not believe that they were told the aim.
Q. What do you know about the participation of these Verfuegungstruppe in the incidents of the 30th of June, 1934 and the 9th of November, 1938?
A. I can not speak of any participation on the 30th of June, 1934 for at that time I was not in the Verfuegungstruppe, but I do know that men of the Verfuegungstruppe were convinced that the executions which were being carried out there had been caused by acts of the State and force used by the State.
The excesses of the 9th of November, 1938, the Verfuegungstruppe was in no way connected with. The large majority, such as the regiment at Munich, and all the recruits, had gathered at Munich for the annual swearing in program.
Q. What do you mean by the Waffen SS ?
A. After the beginning of the campaign in the autumn of 1939, from the Reichsdeutsche (Reich Germans), the Death Head Units, and from men who had been trained for the police, three divisions were first of all set up, and variousother smaller units which were grouped together were then set up under the name of Waffen SS. Increasing need for more troops for the war gradually led to a marked increase up to more than 35 divisions. In the unplanned growth or increase, it is a fact that the contributing factor, that all German nationals who volunteered from the North, from the East, and from the Southeast of Europe, served in this Waffen SS. The total strength, with all lesses considered, might be said to be about 900,000 men. I might estimate that the figure of the Reichsdeutsche (Reich Germans) would comprise one-third to one-half.
Q. At the end of the war ?
A. Yes, at the end of the war.
Q. The Prosecution asserts that the Waffen SS deliberately particiapted in a war of aggression. Is that assertion correct ?
A. Members of the Waffen SS did not have the impression that they were participating in a war of aggression, and that they were being used for that purpose. They lacked any and all insight as to whether they were being used for a war of aggression. Their orders bound them to these idea. It was not possible for them to refuse to participate in a war.
Q. During the war was there a uniform or unified SS Chief Commandant ? To whom were the divisions suborder he during the war ?
A. A unified SS chief command post did not exist during the war. The main office was in Berlin and that was an administrative institution. All divisions of the Waffen SS were incorporated into the Army and fought under the command and in the final analysis, under the responsibility of the Army. I personally, in the five and one-Half years of the war, received orders only from the armed forces offices and agencies.
Q. Did Heinrich Himmler have any influence on the divisions of the Waffer SS, and if so, what influence did he have ?
A. The division which had been incorporated into the Army was subordinate to Heinrich Himmler only in question of personnel, the appointment of officers, andin judicial questions and questions of organization.
Q. The Prosecution states that the Waffen SS used special means of combat and that they fought deliberately cruelly, that they used terror methods, and carried through methods of extermination.
A. I must give you a straight no. The troop was young, it had no tradition, and it had no name. It had to prove itself first. The commanders had only personal pride in guarding the reports and the name of this troop in the brief time they were fighting in the field. The divisions in the Army fought in a mixed way with the troops and the generals would have treated any means that deviated from plain fighting just as they took steps in tactical matters -- they would have stepped in if this accusation of a terrorist method of fighting would have been a correct one, They would have noticed it gust as I would have noticed it for the commanders are on the read days on end and they see how the troops are fighting and can judge what methods are being used.
Q. Were the officers and men to know about the holding of plebiscites ?
A. Even in peacetime and as part of thier training the officers and men were informed of the Hague Convention and the Hague Rules of Land Warfare. The testing and supervision o f it, of course, took place constantly during the war
Q. Is it correct that Himmler, at one time, said that the successes of the Waffen SS were to be credited to terroristic measures ?
A. Heinrich Him mler used this expression at one time in a speech. I reported to him that it was completely wrong, that we had not gained our successes through terror methods that preceded us, but rather, through the brave work of men and of officers, and in serious cases, up to our last possibility.
Q. What basic principles were applied for the treatment of hostile prisoners-of-war ?
A. The prisoners-of-war were treated according to the rules which applied in the Army. First of all, welfare work, food, treatment, just like in the Army. I personally in some regions where I was stationed noted that friend and foe were treated alike, alike according to the same principles, and the old way of handling prisoners or of dealing with prisoners did not apply.
Q. Was the nomination of Himmler to the rank of Commander in Chief of the replacement Army and their organization, and was his nomination and appointment as chief of the Prisoner-of-War system the cause of any changes in policy ?
A. Regarding the Waffen SS. no. But, the Prisoner-ofWar system was put under his authority since Heinrich Himmler was Supreme Commander of the Replacement Army, and he decreed that the higher SS and Police Leaders at home be charged with the supervision of the security measures of the prisoner of-war camps. I do not know, however, the details. I can only state that thereupon, the Higher SS and Police leaders were made generals in the Waffen SS.
Q. The Prosecution asserts that the Waffen SS, because of their will to destroy committed crimes against humanity and crimes against the laws of war in the occupied countries and arbitrarily destroyed cities and villages. Did the Waffen SS participate in these measures and in the deportation of nationals to Germany ?
A. I had occasion to see these troops during the war. I lived with troops in the east and west. The relationship was always a good one. It rested on mutual aid and assistance. Where we had to call the indigent population to help us, of course, for instance, repair work, they received food for their services# The arbitrary destruction of villages would have made it more difficult for us to get accommodations. I don't remember a single case in which the front troops of my division had ever taken hostages or destroyed villages as a punishment.
Q. Before the Eastern campaign, had you known of a decree of Hitler's which allegedly said that excesses of the troops toward the civil population were not to be punished ?
A. That was not the wording of the order. Rather, it left the decision as to whether the troops, in their excesses towards the civil population, should be prosecuted by court and that was left to the court. The sentences were reported to the Reichsfuehrer and excesses like that were punished very, very severely.
Q. Do you know the Kommissar order or decree ?
A. The Kommissar order or decree was addressed only to the corps for the Waffen SS. In 1941 we did not have any corps at that time. This decree was and is unknown to me, therefore, we could not have been guided by it. I recall only having seen a later decree which asked for the forbidding of Kommissars. The troops, in reality, were not too concerned with this order for the Kommissars, as such, were not recognized by front troops ?
Q. Was the fight against the partisans a special task of the Waffen SS, and was this fighting to be considered a fight of extermination ?
A. The fight against partisans ...
(At this point there was a mechanical breakdown).
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn for today.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 1000 hours, 6 august 1946.)