And that comparatively high number results from the fact that once at the beginning of the war a large number of functionaries had been inducted; secondly, that the scope of the task had been increased, and male and female members had to be sent to various territories, and that generally the task of the Security Service grew during the war, and the personnel had to be brought in by draft induction, and so on.
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President, I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Does the prosecution wish to cross-examine?
MAJOR HURRAY: If the Tribunal please, Major Murray cross-examining for the United-States chief prosecutor.
BY MAJOR MURRAY:
Q Witness, when did you become chief of Office 3-A in the RSHA?
Q Who was the chief of Amt 3 at thay time and for some time prior thereto?
Q At times you substituted for Ohlendorf, did you not?
Q At various times during your career, you took Ohlendorf's place as Chief of Amt 3, did you met?
A No. When I was in that office, Ohlendorf, all during that time, was present. Besides, there was no deputy for him. When he was away, the chiefs of the various groups represented him for their various fields. But during the period while I was in Berlin, that happened very rarely.
Q Do you know Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, who was a member of Amt 6, RSHA?
A Hay I ask for the name again, please?
Q Perhaps I do not pronounce it properly. Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, spelled H-O-E-T-T-L.
A Hoettl? No; I only met him here. met him here?
A No. I have not spoken to Hoettl here, either.
MAJOR MURRAY: With the permission of the Tribunal, I should like to read briefly from the affidavit of Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, Document 2614 PS, dealing with the activities of the SD.
This will be USA 918. Dr. Hoettl executed this affidavit on 5 November, 1945:
"It was the task of the SD to inform its chief Himmler and through him the Nazi regime about all matters within Germany, the occupied countries, and the other foreign countries. This task was carried out in Germany by the Department III - Information Service for Germany proper -- and abroad by Department VI -Foreign Information Service." Skipping a few lines:
"For the tasks in Germany proper the Department III had organized a large not of informers who operated out of the various regional offices of the SD. This organization consisted of many hundred of professional SD members who were assisted by thousands of honorary SD members and informers. These informers and honorary collaborators of the SD were placed in all fields of business, education state and party administration. Frequently they performed their duties secretly in their organizations. This information service reported on the morale of the German people, on all the important events in the state, as well as on individual
BY MAJOR MURRAY:
Q Do you consider this a fair statement of the task of the SD?
THE PRESIDENT: Answer the question, please. Witness, answer the question: Do you consider it a fair statement of the work of the SD? No, you need not go on reading the rest of the document. Answer the question.
A There are truths and untruths mixed. I feel that the manner in which this report judges the Security Service very superficial. It does not give the impression that Hoettl had been in the Security Service for a long time. and 1942, the head of Einsatzgruppe D in southern Russia? You were informed of that, were you not? members of the SD and of the Gestapo and of the Criminal. Police?
Q You knew that they were commanded by SD members, did you not? organizations, members of the State Police, Criminal Police, and Security Police. I myself, for instance, was never used there.
MAYOR MURRAY: I would like to refer, of the Tribunal please, to the affidavit of Ohlendorf. This is document No. 2620-PS, becoming USA 919. This affidavit has not been used in evidence before. This affidavit of Ohlendorf, which is very brief, states: "The Einsatzgruppen and the Einsatzkommando were commanded by personal of the Gestapo, the SD, who are the Criminal Police. Additional men were detailed form the regular police." And dropping down a few lines: "Usually the smaller units were led by members --"
THE WITNESS: May I interrupt you? Excuse me please. It doesn't say here that members of the regular police were loading them. It says only that additional troops were provided by the Order Police. BY MAJOR MURRAY:
Q Yes, I skipped that. Skipping down a few lines: "Usually the smaller units were led by members of the SD, the Gestapo, or the Criminal Police." So that actually members of the SD were leading these Einsatzgruppen in the cast, were they not?
Police, and other Criminal Police as well were in charge of these Commands. the performance of their tasks, didn't they?
A Excuse me. I only understood a few word. Einsatzgruppen leaders were these uniforms? their duties in the east, is that true? had the sign SD. That was one of the main reasons for misunderstandings which happened, because also members of the Security Police were that sign of the SD. They referred to the special organization of the SD which I have mentioned in the beginning today, and because beyond that even those members of the Einsatzgruppe und Einsatzkommandos were that who were not even members and who, in peace time, had never worn any uniform; they were sent into the Einsatzgruppe as so-called Uniformtraeger, wearer of uniforms. and may of those officers were the uniform of the SD while killing these people in the eastern territories; isn't that true?
A I don't understand the sense of the question. There were very few people of the SD who weren't either Einsatzgruppen or Einsatzkommandos and these leaders, during the intire time, were the uniform with the SD on the sleeve.
MAJOR MURRAY: If the Tribunal please, I should like to bring into evidence another brief document, document 2992-PS, USA 494. This is a portion of that affidavit which has not previously been read into evidence. It is the affidavit of Hermann Friedrich Rabe. I am sure the Tribunal will recall that affidavit where this German citizen recounted the SS and SD men shooting large numbers of helpless individuals, the document which was referred to by the Attorney General of Great Britain a few days ago.
In the first part of that affidavit Rabe states: "SS men acting as the executioner on the edge of the pit during the shooting of Jewish men -- "
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. This document is in evidence already, isn't it?
MAJOR MURRAY: It is, My Lord, but not this particular portion of it referring to the SD. I did not intend to repeat the other portions but this portion refers specifically to the SD and it is only that two sentences that I intend to read.
Paragraph 1 says: "The SS men acting as the executioner on the edge of the pit during the shooting of Jewish men, women and children, at the airport mear Dubno, were an SS uniform with a gray armband about three centimeters wide on the lower part of his sleeve, with the letters " SD " in black on it, woven or embroidered." and drooping down to the last portion of the second paragraph, "On the morning of 14 July I recognized three or four SS men in the ghetto whom I know personally and who were all members of the Security Service in Ravno. These persons also were the armband mentioned above." Einsatzkommandos were members of your SD organization? and Einsatzkommandos, few members of the SD, and it is not said here at all that these people to whom reference is made in this document had anything to do with the Inland Information Service; and if one was there who belonged to the Inland information service, which can not be seen from the documeny, because it only says that they were a uniform with the sign SD, then he had been ordered for that particular work such as anybody may be inducted for military service.
That is just the main reason for a large number of mistakes which are made with that concept of the SD, that the members had the same uniform as these who were in the Einsatzgruppe.
Q. In any event, Ohlendorf was a member of the SD, was he not?
A. Ohlendorf was Chief of Amt 3, but that hah no connection with the fact that he was also commander of an Einsatzgruppe. That Einsatzgruppe could just as well have been commanded by the chief of Amt 4, 5, an inspector or anybody else. That had nothing to do with the activity of Ohlendorf as Chief of Amt 3.
Q. Now, Ohlendorf has testified that frequent reports were compiled by the Einsatzgruppen and sent back to the headquarters, did you see any of these reports while you were in the headquarters of R.S.H.A. ?
A. No. That was not possible because during that period when I was in Berlin these Einsetzgruppen from the east had been recalled, most of them at least. At any rate, there were no more reports; and I am of the opinion generally that in Amt 3, that is the Inland Information Service, only very for people ever saw the reports that came from the Einsatzgruppen.
Q. I would like to have shown to you a series of 55 weekly reports of the activities of the Einsatzgruppen, and, incidentally, the Einsatzgruppen are known as the Einsatzgruppen of the Security police and the SD.
A. No, no, no. There were no Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the Security Service, SD, but there were only the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C and D in the east; and there were good reasons for that.
Q. Before submitting that document to you, witness, I'd like to have you examine document No. 3876-PS, which has already been admitted in evidence as USA 808. I call your attention to the title page of that document, signed by Hoydrich, which reads as follows: " I herewith enclose the summary report concerning the activity of the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD in the U.S.S.R. This report will be sent periodically in the future." Signed Heydrich.
Aren't you mistaken, Witness, in saying that these were not known as Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and SD?
A No. The Einsatzgruppen figured as Einsatzgruppen B, C and D. They were commanded by a plenipotentiary of the Chief of the Security Police and the D with the army groups or army. That designation of Einsatzgruppe of the Security Police or SD is unfortunately wrong. documents are wrong?
AApart from that -- no, I don't want to sap that the document is false. I only say that this expression is not correct. Look at the distribution list. It says on the distribution list: "The chiefs of Einsatzgruppe A, B, C and D."Beside, the Einsatzkommandos are not called kommandos but had Arabic numerals; that is one to twelve, as far as I am informed.
Q: This, of course, is a report of your chief, Heydrich, and I won't enlarge on the point. Turn now to page 31 and 32. It is at the bottom of page 32 in Heydrich's...
A. One moment please. There is no page 31 or 32 in my document.
Q. It is a very short passage. I will read it to you. In White Ruthenia the purge of Jews is under way. The number of Jews in the part up to now handed over to the civil administration amounts to 139,000 "
A. Yes, now I have it.
Q. Now, go down to the last sentence. "In the meantime, 33,210 Jews were shot by the Einsatz groups of the security Police and the security Service SD". It doesn't say anything there about groups A, B, C, or D, does it ?
A. No, it says Security Police and SD, Only, I don't understand what that has to do with the inland information service, Security Service.
Q. [Except that Ohlendorf was the head of your service, wasn't he ?
A. He functioned as chief of Amt III at Berlin but during the time when the Einsatz groups were out, he was in the field and that was handled like any other induction of a particular service.
Q. witness, are you informed of the fact that the SD was carry in on espionage activities in the United States prior to Germany's declaration of war against the United stages ?
A. I cannot imagine that the Inland information service would have worked in the United States.
Q. I would like to offer in evidence, if the Tribunal please, document number 5043 -PS which becomes USA-920. This document is a teletype message of the foreign Office, dated 11 July 1941. I will read just one sentence from this one document. "Reference teletype No. 2110 of 5.7 from Washington Herr Reich Foreign Minister "That was Ribbentrop, was it not? "Herr Reich Foreign Minister requests you submit immediately a written report regarding who amongst these in New York arrested on suspicion of espionage worked with the Abwehr und with the SD.
service in New York prior to the declaration of war against the United States ?
A : One of the first questions which my counsel presented to me was the one whether one could designate the Foreign Information Service as SD. I said, " Yes ", and further clarification was that Inland Information Service and Foreign Information Service were different sections. Whether Amt VI had anything to do with this I cannot say. I was in Amt III and I did not know anything about these things that went on in Amt VI.
MAJOR MRRAY: Well, they were all part of the SD. Whether or not you refer to the SD numerically, they were all part of the SD.
THE PRESIDENT : Would you re-examine the witness if you want to ? Did the Soviet Prosecutor want to ask any questions ?
COLONEL SMYRNOW : Mr. President, I did want to put a few questions to the witness, but these questions are in connection with one new document -- quite an interesting document - which we only received today, and for this reason, we have not had the translation into English made up. Therefore, I do not know whether it would be appropriate for me to put this question now when I do not have an English translation to present to the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps we could do it in the morning. It would be translated by then. Perhaps you could do it in the morning ?
COLONEL SMYRNOW : Thank you very much, Mr. President, yes.
THE PRESIDENT : Dr. Gawlik, would you re-examine him now ?
DR. GAWLIK : Mr. President, I do not know whether I should wait for the new document and if I won't have a few questions after the new document is presented. That, of course, I could not do now.
THE PRESIDENT : Well, if there is anything that arises from the new document, you could put the questions later on. You will have a better opportunity if necessary.
DR. GAWLIK : Yes, I see.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. GAWLIK: who had nothing to do with the SD ? who had nothing to do with the SS ? not anything to do with the SD were the SD sign ? A Because all members of the Security Police were that 1 Aug A LJG 22-1* uniform because any man who did any service with the Einsatz commandos or Einsatz groups had to wear a uniform and the only uniform was the gray uniform of the SD.
Q Why did they wear the SD sign?
DR. GAWLIK: I have no more questions. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Have you got this document before you, 3867-PS?
A 3867-PS?
Q Yes. You see what it says there. " I herewith enclose the 9th summary report concerning activities of the Einsatzgruppe of the Security Police and the SD in the USSR." That is the second paragraph, you see that--describing the report?
A In my copy there are several documents. Is it the one of the 27th February, please?
Q 27 February 1942, page 17. Have you got it?
Q First of all you see "regarding report No. 9 concerning the activity of the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD in the USSR". And then the first enclosure. Heydrich encloses the 9th summary report concerning the activity of the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD in the USSR. understand why the SD were there because the Einsatzgruppen had the numerals A, B, C, and D?
Q That's what you meant, wasn't it, that you could not explain why the SD was there? out it is to be distributed to the chiefs of the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C, and D, and also to the commanders of the Security 1 Aug A LJG 22-2a Police and the SD?
report? If Einsatzgroups and Einsatzcommand of Security Police and SD are mentioned, then that expression is not correct, because that expression did not exist. There were only Einsatz Groups A, B, C, and D and Einsatz numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, and so on. be sent to the commanders of the Einsatz Groups in separate distribution to then as well as to the chiefs of the Einsatz Groups unless the SD has something to do with it?
A I believe I may have been misunderstood. It is a report about the activities of the Einsatz Groups which had been summarized by the chiefs of the Security Police and SD and which had been sent to the individual Einsatz Groups so that they could explain what happened in the field of the Einsatz Groups A, B, C, and D.
Q Yes, it isn't only sent to the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C and D;
it is also sent to the commanders of the Secret Police and SD. What I am asking you is: Why is it sent to the commanders of the Security Police and the SD if they had nothing to do with it? Police and SD in Cracow and Higher SS and Police Leaders should be informed about the work of these Einsatz Groups, because it was also sent to the Higher SS and Police Leader in Breslau and one in Dresden, who certainly had nothing to do with the activity of the Einsatz Groups -- to the Reich defense Commissioners in Dresden and Breslau. he described it as the activity of the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD and when they sent out and distributed it to the commanders of the Security Police and SD, it was merely a matter of information; is that it? the distribution of a different report; it is a report on the 23rd of April 1942.
Q And will you lock at page 46 and 47? General Kaltenbrunner, Vienna. Reich Minister Dr. Frank.
A I cannot find Reich Minister Dr. Frick.
A Yes; to attention on the **erregierungsrat Dr. Shepers. February 1942. same people?
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 2 August 1946, at 1000 hours) Official Transcript of the International Military BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
Q. Witness, I request that you explain some of the testimony which you gave yesterday. Please give me very brief answers. First, you told yesterday that SD had no relationships whatever toward working out the plans of aggression and was not even aware of such plans. You further stated that the SD since 1934 and up to 1939, in other words during the period of the organization of the plans, was engaged in activities which were very far from carrying out any police functions and actually had the nature of a scientific and research organization, is that correct?
A. I didn't say that.
Q. No, I said scientific and research character.
A. I explained that the SD participated in tasks, for instance, tasks concerning the work of ascertaining the state of living in Germany and also statistical tasks.
Q. You further stated that the SD had no relations whatsoever towards crimes against peace and crimes against humanity, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. President, I would like the permission of the Tribunal to submit the original of a German document from the Archives of the Central SD, which is a document captured by the Red Army in the Berlin District and refers to the invasion of Czechoslovakia.
Will you kindly follow me, Mr. Witness, while I quote from the document in the Russian translation?
"Communication. June 1938. Berlin. Secret. Subject: Deployment of SD in Czechoslovakia." Text follows:
"The SD should prepare to start its activity in case the German Reich and Czechoslovakia become united. The manifold planning and the preparation of the operational staff for mobilization should be effected on the basis of approval...."
THE PRESIDENT: You read out a date of June, 1938. I can't see that at the head of the document.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: June, 1938, yes.
THE PRESIDENT: It doesn't appear at the head of the document. Does it appear somewhere else?
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Your translation probably does not have it, Mr. President. The original has it.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Mr. Chairman, we submitted copies of two different documents and I am afraid the mistake might have been caused by the fact that your translation is not the translation of the document which I am submitting right now. We submitted copies of two different documents, two different translations.
THE PRESIDENT: It is an entirely different document or else some parts are omitted. The date is not on the document. Go on. Go on. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
Q. "Dividing functions, the SD follows wherever possible directly behind the advancing troops and takes upon themselves duties similar to their duties in the Reich which are the security of the political life, and at the same time, the security of all enterprises for peoples' economy and war economy. In order to achieve this purpose, we suggest the distribution of this country in temporary Oberabschnitt and Unterabschnitt. The latter have to be sub-divided in Aussenstellen in order to assign the SS members immediately to their task". ing out the plans of aggression and was meant to take part in it. I am asking you, Mr. Witness, this excerpt shows that SD was not only aware of the plans of invasion and aggression, but also, that it took an active part in working out the plans?
A. May I first say something defending the document?
Q. I would like you to answer briefly, first. Answer yes or no. Explain later, please.
A. From the document, it is obvious that it is only concerning ....
Q. We will talk about that a little later. You will see, then, what the main point is. Refer to the excerpt which I read. Do you not see evidence there that SD was both informed and took an active part in the plans of aggression?
A. I said yesterday that the interior and foreign information services..
THE PRESIDENT: We do not care what you said yesterday. We want to get your answer today. You were asked a question which can be answered by yes or no. You can explain afterwards.
A. The document has nothing to do with the interior information service.
Q. In that case, I would like you to look on page 3 of the document. You testified yesterday that SD had no connection, whatever, to some of the points I am going to bring to your attention here. I am going to read an excerpt here. It is Item 2. Please pay attention to what I am reading now.
THE PRESIDENT: It is being role too fast. The translators do not have time to translate it.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Thank you Mr. President. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
Q. The excerpt that was just read does not mention that SD made demands and that the plans were made in terms of fulfilling those demands, and that planning and staffing of the general staffs was going to take place in terms of the demands ?
A. Excuse me. It was apparently translated incorrectly. Your question does not make sense to me.
Q. It seems to me the question is quite clear. It must be in terms of demand.
Please look at the text of the document.
A. In my text there is absolutely nothing concerning this.
Q. 202(a), Page 3 ?
THE PRESIDENT: To which words are you referring now?
COLONEL SMIRNOV: I am referring to Section 2, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: You must go slowly. You simply say Page 3. It happens not to be on Page 3, on our Page 3. It is on Page 2. How do you expect us to find it when you refer to it that way?
COLONEL SMIRNOV: It is Section 2, Mr. President. There is Roman Numeral II in front of the section. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
Q. What answer will you give then, Mr. Witness? What answer will you rive me with regard to manning the staffs of the planning agencies of SD?
A. From the paragraph, it can only be that the SD has requested it should be prepared for it, but not that they should plan anything.
Q. In that case, I should like to ask you to turn to Section 3.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Mr. President, please torn to Section 3. It is Page 4 of the Russian text. I refer to Roman III, Item 1. Then refer to the next page of the Russian text which follows right after the list of cities. It is page four of the English Text. "As soon as any district is free from the enemy, that is unoccupied, the allocated groups are immediately sent to the district Administration following the advancing troops. At the same time, the groups which are intended for the next district follow, too, in order to get used to the situation there". the agency?
A. From this document it can only be seen that the head office of these groups has been organized.
Q. If this does not convince you, then I would like you to turn.....
THE PRESIDENT: You must go more slowly. We will not hear what the witness says if you interrupt him during the time it take for the translation to come through. It is impossible for us to understand if you interrupt.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: I beg your pardon, Mr. President, I stated that if this does not concern the witness, that was precisely that the SD helped to staff these operational groups.
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. Then the witness said something about Einsatzgruppe. What did you say about Einsatzgruppes?
THE WITNESS: The question was whether I an now convinced that the Einsatzgruppes were being prepared beforehand, and I answered that -
THE PRESIDENT: No, you were not asked about Einsatzgruppes at all. You were asked about the SD.
THE WITNESS: I was asked whether the SD was preparing the Einsatzgruppe beforehand, and I said that from the document, the SD had prepared a head office of these groups. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
Q Please look at Paragraph V -- Section V -- entitled "Preparatory Measures". Page 5 of the English text.
COLONEL SMIRNOV: Mr. President, I want to quote Section V, "Preparatory Measures".
"Preparatory Measures; Demarcation of Districts of the SD and of the Gestapo: (a) in Germany (b) in occupied territory.
"Suggestion: Measures in Germany are carried out under the guidance of the Gestapo and with the assistance of the SD. Measures in the occupied regions are carried out under the leadership of the senior officer of the SD. Gestapo officials are assigned to certain operations staffs. It is important that so far as possible similar preparations, training and the use of materials should be conducted in the Gestapo as in the SD." BY COLONEL SMIRNOV: took the leading part in preparing these plans, and that its activity consisted of this type of criminal activity?
AAbout criminal activity I read nothing here. As for the questions concerning the SD, I would like to answer the first question that it had nothing to do with the domestic information service.
THE PRESIDENT: The man had not yet finished his answer. We do not know what his answer is. Now repeat your answer.
THE WITNESS: I said that I read nothing about criminal measures in the document, and I said previously that the document had nothing to do with domestic information services. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
Q It says there SD. Can you argue about the term used by the document? Can you deny that?
A The word "SD" means many things. precisely the sense in which the authorities in Germany had used the term. The German officials understood the terms they used, did they not? Number 2, entitled, "Establishment of Files in Section III, 225 of the Central Administration of the SD:
"(a) Collecting and utilization of all available materials of the SD Oberabschnitt is concentrated in Section III, 225.
"(b) In establishing duplicate local files for each region, one copy remains with central departments, and the second is sent to the operations staff appointed to definite regions." Item (c):
"Files must have notations such as these: 'to arrest', 'to liquidate', 'to remove from work', 'to place under observation', 'to confiscate', 'police surveillance', 'deprivation of passport'." like these on the cards of specific persons, such as to liquidate, to arrest, that the SD was participating in crimes against humanity?