A Not directly, but perhaps indirectly. I supported the demands for disarmament of the others, and for the equalization of armament; and I advocated the armament of the German people and Wehrhaftmachung. This could be misunderstood and easily misinterpreted. I should like to explain it. It means the ability to fight in one's own defense. mouth, that the restoration of its military sovereignty would be only for defensive purposes.
Q How and where did you represent those facts? time to time. I was a patriot, but I feel myself t be free from Chauvanism, or exaggerated nationalism. As an historian, I realized at that time already that especially in the narrow confines of Europe the old nationalism was an anachronism, and that it was in contrast to modern weapons. At that time, I believed in Hitler's doctrine. I believe that, in Hitler's doctrine, there were certain elements for a new type of mutual understanding among peoples, particularly the dogman which was repeatedly set up: "Only the nationalism of one people can understand the nationalism of another people." through the development of arms, and so forth, that the time of nationalism is past, if mankind does not went to commit suicide, and that the period of internationalism has come, for good or evil.
At that time, however, nationalism was not considered a crime. Everyone represented it. It can be seen that it is still advocated today, and I also advocated it. campaign was held in Germany, intended to weaken the victim of a planned attack and to prepare the German people psychologically for thenew drive. However, the prosecution states this without reference to you personally. And although the direct charge is not made that you put on these press campaigns, nevertheless the prosecution points out very strongly your connection with this practice.
What have you to say about your role in this publicity battle? described in detail in my affidavit No. 3469 PS, Points 23 to 33. From the Rhineland occupation on, up to the attack on the Soviet Union, these descriptions also contain information about the type and extent of my participation in those drives. In addition, I may emphasize that in this description of my affidavit, there is no reference to the question of right.
There is no political explanation. I should like to emphasize expressly that in each case, in each drive, I believed I was representing a good cause. It would be going too far to explain that here for each case, especially since many of these cases have already been discussed here. I assume, I hope that the prosecution will ask questions on this subject for I assert that no matter how the facts may have been in the individual cases, at every moment from the Anschluss of Austria on to the attack on Russia, information was given to me and through me to the German public which admitted of no doubt in the legality of the urgent necessity of the German procedure and I, as the only surviving informer of the German public, consider it my duty to be ready here for any investigation of the correctness of this statement of mine, which is of especial importance for the German public. considered typical for the various states of tension of the individual cases. What have you to say to that?
A Without exception,these headlines from the "Voelkischer Beobachter" these headlines were submitted to me and, of course, I had to confirm their correctness but I may emphasize that the "Voelkischer Beobachter" was not typical of the result of my press policy. The "Voelkischer Beobachter" general had its own direct connections with the headquarters and with Hitler. Typical products of my press policy were the papers "Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung," the "Munchener Neueste Nachrichten", and the "Hamburger Fremdenblatt", to name only a few. propaganda, you urged war to the extent that you tried to awaken hostile feelings with the German people towards other people of Europe and the world; for example, it is said in Captain Sprecher's speech for the prosecution that agitation against the people of the Soviet Union and an atmosphere of senselessness and hatred were created by you or that you had incited the Germans to blind hatred. Did you dot heat?
A No, I did not do that. Never did I attempt to awaken hatred agains the English, French, Americans, or Russians, and so forth. There is not a single word of this typo in perhaps a thousand speeches which I made before the microphone. I did speak strongly against governments, members of govern ments, governmental systems but I never preached general hatred or I did not attempt to awaken it indirectly as was the case -- and I ask your pardon for my taking an example from the courtroom -- at the moment when a film was presented here and the words were spoken "here you see Germans are laughing at Yugoslavs"; never did I try to awaken hatred in this general form and I may point out that for years many anti-National Socialist statements from certain countries, which were neutral at that time, remained unanswered.
agitation and the awakening of hatred? should be waged against people or hatred should be awakened against people. That was expressly forbidden because we wanted to win people over to our side but again and again I was requested to awaken hatred against individuals and against systems.
Q Who requested you to do this?
A Dr. Goebbels, Dr. Dietrich and often on the direct orders of Adolf Hitler, The reproach was repeatedly made that the German press and the German radio did not awaken any hatred at all against Roosevelt, Churchill or Stalin but there may be three personalities popular as efficient men. For that reason, for years the German press was forbidden to mention those three names at all unless in an individual case permission was obtained with exact instructions. propaganda to agitation and to the awakening of hatred and did not carry it out?
A I should like to outline exactly what I did. When the reproaches of Dr. Goebbels and Dr. Dietrich piled up, I had all caricatures from the first orsecond world war collected -- from England, the United States of America, France and a few from Russia. In addition, I had all anti-German propaganda pictures which I could lay my hands on collectively. Then, in five to six demonstrations of several hours each, I presented these caricatures and these films to German journalists and German radio speakers. I, myself, spoke only two or three minutes in introduction. It is quite possible that I produced hatred through these showings but the condemnation of this means of producing hatred in the midst of war, I should like to submit to the judgment of the Tribunal.
In any case, Dr. Goebbels said later that he was dissatisfied and we were "bunglers." I may add one statement. I would have had a means of carrying out my orders of awakening real hatred, that is, not one means but a whole group of methods; that would have been, to give only one example, a German publication of the last two volumes of the Tarzan series, an adventure series which was very popular in Germany at that time -- the last two volumes were strongly anti-Germany. I need not describe them here. I did not use such products of former anti-German propaganda. I always deliberately ignored such methods. propaganda, what means did you use in your propaganda during the war? concept of necessity and of the fighting with necessity and compulsion. I repeatedly painted the results of defeat very bluntly and systematically I gave quotations from the press and the radio of the enemy countries. The enemy demands for unconditional surrender I quoted repeatedly. I often used the expression "Uberversailles" and I emphasized, I described the results of the loss of the war very pessimistically. I cannot make a comparison with reality today. fight of the Allies was not against the German people but only against its leaders; did you keep that a secret from the German people? that and I called it "incredible." For example, I used the trick of quoting the wording of a medieval declaration of war which had said that only the King of France was being attacked but that one wanted to bring freedom to the French people.
THE PRESIDENT: Would that be a convenient time to break off?
(The Tribunal adjourned until 27 June 1936, at 1000 hours. ) THE MARSHAL : If it please the Tribunal, the report is made that defendant Ribbentrop is absent.
DR. FRITZ : Mr. President, first a very brief explanation. Yesterday I repeatedly mentioned the Indictment and intend to do so in the course of the examination. I also mentioned the presentation of Fritsche's case by Captain Sprecher, of the session of the 23rd of January 1946. BY DR. FRITZ :
Q Mr. Fritsche, yesterday you spoke of your radio speeches concerning the Allied propaganda. My last question. Did you attempt to split the front of the Allies by your propaganda ?
A Of course, I attempted to do that. All idelogical and all practical political contrasts or differences between the individual Allied Nations I worked out. I considered that a permissible method of waging war. At that time, I wanted a split between the Allies just as much as today I wish their unity, since German would be the first victim of any conflict. throughout Germany. Did you agitate against Democracy ?
A I never agitated against Democracy as such. I spoke against the democracy of the thirty-six parties. The democracy which had prevailed in Germany previously, the democracy under which strong groups were powerless, such as the Marxist parties, for example; the foreign democracy I criticized only for two points; first, for the elements which limited the basic thought of democraties. I believe it is superfluous; perhaps it would be misunderstood to enumerate them today. Secondly, I criticized the demands of the foreign democracies to force their form of government on us. At the time, according to my knowledge and information at the time, it seemed unjustified to me.
Q Then, did you consider dictatorship a better form of government ?
A I should like to express that. At that time, under the conditions at that time, when only for a temporary emergency period, yes; today, of course not. After the totalitarian form of government has led to the catastrophy of the murder of five million, I consider this form of government wrong even in times of emergency.
I believe any kind of democratic control, even limited democratic control would have made such a catastrophy impossible.
trine of the master race. The prosecution makes this charge indirectly against you. How about that? race. I even avoided this term. I expressly prohibited this term for the German Press and the German radio at the time when I was in charge of one or the other. I believe that the term "master race" played a greater role in the anti-Nationalist propaganda than in Germany proper. I do not know who invented this term. To my knowledge, it was publicly mentioned only by men like Dr. Ley, for example, and I must explain this frankly and expressly, these men were not taken seriously by anyone in this connection. It is true, however, that this term played a great role, without being expressed openly, in the SS because of its racial exclusiveness, but people of intelligence, tact, of insight and some knowledge of the world avoided the use of this word extremely carefully.
DR. FRITZ: Mr. President, at this opportunity, I should like to offer an affidavit to the Tribunal by Dr. Scharping of the 17th of May, 1946. Dr. Scharping was Government Councillor in the Propaganda Ministry to the end. From this affidavit I shall now quote only one sentence from Page 13. I quote: "In this connection it can be explained that Fritsche always opposed the term "the maste race". He even expressly prohibited the use of this word on the radio." BY DR. FRITZ: radio speeches to prove this assertion. fully. The term "master race" is rejected in this quotation for the Jewish and for the German people. The quotation should not be misunderstood.
DR. FRITZ: Mr. President, that is in Captain Sprecher's speech for the prosecution, in the English text on Page 31 in the record.
BY DR. FRITZ: abroad. What was the difference?
A In my radio speeches there was no difference. Before the outbreak of war I made a slight difference in the speeches for Germany and those for other countries because the audience was different and because I had to presuppose a different level of knowledge. During the war my speeches on the Reich German radio were simply transmitted over the short wave station. What was said for Germany or for other countries could be mutually controlled. In the twelve years during which I spoke on the German radio, I never permitted my speeches to be translated, since that always involved a difference of emphasis. Articles can be translated, perhaps official speeches can be, but not my talks, which were rather light and half improvised.
Q Were your broadcasts abroad criticized internationally?
A Yes, frequently. During the war there was often daily criticism from some country or other. I had those criticisms collected. I asked for them as documents but my application was refused. As far as I know, I am not accused of war agitation in these criticisms. also as an organizer. You are accused of having helped to create an important instrument for the asserted conspiracy. The prosecution says that for thirteen years you aided in the creation of the propaganda machine which the conspiracy was able to put to such good use. Did you create the Press organization of the National Socialist State? any part in its creation. Its creator was Dr. Goebbels, Dr. Dietric and Reichsleiter Amann. When, in the winter of 1938, I became head of the so-called German Press Section, I attempted to loosen the bonds which had been imposed on the German Press. I attempted that in the material and personal field. For example, hundreds of edi tors of other parties who had been dismissed in 1933 and '34 I recalled to the Press.
Today they will be angry at me. I had good intentions at the time. Then, in addition to the official Press conferences, which were very strictly controlled in their records by my superiors, I arranged so-called supplementary conferences in which I met with the representatives of the fifty or sixty more important papers and discussed more freely the possibilities of their work. I coined the slogan which was often used there; You can write any criticism in the German papers if you do not put this criticism in big headlines but put it in the text in an elegant form. Many German journalists made use of this possibility in the past twelve years. I would be glad if this work, which was a hidden work, could be honored in some way today in the interest of these people who have, in part, returned to their profession as journalists out of personal confidence in me. Of course I must add that the possibility of criticizing was not unlimited.
DR. FRITZ: Mr. President, at this opportunity, with the approval of the prosecution, I offer the Tribunal a document as Fritsche Exhibit No. 4. It is an excerpt from a letter of the German Lt. General Dittmar, who frequently commented on the military situation on the German radio during the war and who is an English prisoner. The well known English radio commentator, Mr. Lidell-Hart, sent the British prosecution an excerpt from the letter. This memorandum which was sent to me, I should like to quote briefly. May I quote this passage?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, you may.
DR. FRITZ: Dittmar writes: "The possibility of retaining the critical attitude in his radio commentary is due primarily to the silent approval and the protection of Hans Fritsche, the head of the political radio. He believes that Fritsche was a secret opponent of the regime and was glad of the chance to have found a commentator who discreetly expressed ideas which resembled his own and which insiduously would tend to reduce confidence in the regime.
And following this quotation, there is another quotation 27 June M LJG 3-1 from the affidavit of Dr. Scharping which I have already submitted as Fritsche Exhibit No. 2. It is on page 11 of this affidavit.
I quote;
" The radio people and the journalists knew Fritsche's tolerance quite well. It repeatedly happened that Fritsche at his conferences had, for example, a copy of the Voelkischer Beobachter in his hand and commented ironically on an anti-Jewish article. I recall that one time he expressed his criticism in about the following words,'A Berlin paper' -- then he held the Voelkischer Beobachter up so that everyone could see it -- 'has once more, in an editorial, hit more than two birds with one stone. Perhaps the publisher will succeed in getting the right stone."
"With such ironical remarks, Fritsche always had the approval of his listeners, but there was some danger for him, for Goebbels daily read the records of these press conferences." BY DR. FRITZ:
Q Mr. Fritsche, following the statement of Lt. General Dittmar, one question: Did you feel yourself to be an enemy of the system, or how does General Dittmar come to this statement?
A I was not an enemy of the system. It would be ridiculous and unworthy to try to assert that today. But I was definitely an opponent of all misuse of the system which I could recognize. The one which I noticed the most, because it was in my field of work, was whitewashing of news during the war. The aim of all my news policy was realism, and apparently that is what General Dittmar means in the part of his statement which has been read here. the moment when the Sixth German Army at Stalingrad was surrounded, but when this fact was still being kept secret from the German people. Together with General Dittmar, I publicly announced the fact that the S ixt Army was surrounded at Stalingrad, against the prohibition.
This caused a great sensation at the time.
27 June M LJG 3-2 General Dittmar and his realistic presentation of the military situation against all attacks, especially against the attacks of the P arty, but also the attacks of the Foreign Office which repeatedly pointed out that these objective presentations of Dittmar had a bad effect on Germany's allies. later -- and I ask permission to mention this briefly -- I waged a desperate battle against the irresponsible propaganda of miracle weapons. Only one year after Dr. oebbels had mentioned miracle weapons, I mentioned a new type of weapon for the first time. Speer has mentioned SS Standartenfuehrer Berg, who is said to have carried on secret propaganda for the miracle weapon in connection with the Prop agenda Ministry. He wrote an article in Das Reich which attracted much attention, with the sensational heading. "we, the Bearers of Secrets." I had to fight against such things.
Another especially striking example was this. Another member of the SS, Hernau, wrote, at the moment when the invasion had succeeded, an article in which he presented the situation as if the evacuation of France had been a very secret trick of the German Command, which was only creating the possibility for a very strong counter-blow. I prohibited this article in my field, and I repeatedly had to oppose the irresponsible rumors which were spread in secret about mysterious weapons. I did so publicly, and I spoke on the radio against this propaganda. the war my superiors always made promises to me, first, of a military offensive which was just being prepared, for instance, a thrust from East Prussia toward the south, a thrust from Upper Silesia to the Vistula, a thrust from Alsace toward the north, and so forth. Hand in hand with these promises which were worked out in detail were the political promises which were mentioned briefly yesterday, the descriptions given by Dr. Goebbels that foreign political negotiations were in progress with one or 27 June M LJG 3-3 another enemy.
Q Another question: Who was in charge of press policy?
A Reich Press Chief Dr. Dietrich. He gave quite specialized instructions, mostly in a wording which was strictly said, the so-called slogan of the day of the Reich Press Chief. Generally he gave the commentaries which were to be added to the press conference.
For the most part, Dr. Dietrich was at the Fuehrer's headquarters and received his instructions directly from Hitler. Dr. Dietrich's representatives were Sudndermann and Lorenz. Reichsleiter Amann who was at the head of the organization of publishers. The third factor was Dr. Goebbels as Reich Propaganda Minister. Dietrich and Amann were formally subordinate to him; in fact, both had equal authority with him and I always had to adjust differences or coordinate between these three authorities. news service?
A Yes, I did create this organization. On principle, it originated with me. I may refer to my affidavit, 3469-PS, Point 17. I took care of the journalistic news service from about 1934 to 1938. I was proud of the fact that at the beginning of the war the enemy even recognized the good functioning of this news machine. At that time, I was no longer the head of this news service department. However, as an expert I created this organization in peacetime without thinking of its possibility of use during war. The conclusion of the Prosecution that I determined the contents of the news service is not correct. was the most fabulous lie factory of all times. What do you have to say about this?
the following quite clear. I state under oath, in newly serious 27 June M LJG 3-4 questions of policy and conduct of war, I did not commit a single falsification and did not consciously speak a single lie.
as to the revelations of this trial. The same is true as far as I know of all my fellow-workers but I do not by any means want to deny that I and my fellow-workers selected news and quotations according to a tendency. It is the curse of propaganda during war that one works only with black and white and there are only a few great spirits. I believe that this painting in black and white is a luxury which one cannot afford anymore. only judge of the twelve sections, the one of which I was in charge at any time. But to my knowledge it is a mistake to believe that in the Propaganda Ministry thousands of little lies were thought out. In detail we worked quite cleanly and honestly, technically completely so. If we had lied in a thousand small things the enemy would have been able to deal with us more easily than was the case. But decisive for us for such a news machine is not the detail but the final fundamental basis on which propaganda is built. Decisive is the belief in the purity of the leaders of the state, on which every journalist must rely and this basis was shaken by what has become known today; of mass murders, senseless atrocities and it is shaken by the doubt in the honesty of Hitler's protestations for peace, the details of which I am in no position to judge.
Q. In this trial it has been pointed out that there are no regulations under international law on the use of propaganda in war and peace.
A. I know very well that international law places no boundries on propaganda especially propaganda during war. I also know very well that only in a very few, individual treaties between states are there regulations about the use of propaganda; for example in the German-Polish treaty and in the GermanSoviet Union treaty. But in all my life as a journalist I have emphasized that the lack of international regulations as to propaganda is no pass for lies. I always felt and emphasized the responsibility of the journalist. I did so long before the war in an international discussion with radio Luxembourg but I need not go into that here. wish -- I wanted to account for where in the system was the limit of idealism and sacrifices and where there were lies and the brutality which was not afraid of committing crimes.
Q. Please give us examples of cases wherein you felt you were deceived ?
A. During this trial the news was discussed that at the beginning of the Polish war there was news of the attack on the Gleiwitz radio station. At that time I firmly believed in the correctness of the official German news. I need say nothing about this case. talk with Grand Admiral Raeder I realized that it was actually a German submarine which sank the "Athenia". Up to that time I had firmly believed in the truth of the official German report that there had been no German submarine in the neighborhood. I asked my lawyer to pick out what I had said in my radio speeches about the "Athenia" case, things which would really speak against me but which, on the other hand, show that I worked not alone on the basis of the official German news but that I also collected the news which supported the official German version; for example, the fact which was not at first made public and therefore was suspicious, that the wreck of the "Athenia" one day after the catastrophy, was sunk by being shelled by British destroyers, which is a matter, of course, in the interest of shipping but which at the time seemed to be to me an occasion for suspicion. I also used American news on the same subject. But the most impressive false news of which I was a victim was given out in the last few days of the war. I must describe it in the interest of clearing matters up. Berlin were told that a relief army, the Weng Army, was marching on Berlin; that there was no more fighting on the western front. The news was given out that Ribbentrop had gone to the Western Front and had concluded a treaty three and handbills were printed in Berlin which contained approximately this text; "Soldiers of the Weng Army, we Berliners know that you are as far as Petsdam. Hurry, help us." existed and had already been captured. These handbills were dropped over Berlin ostensibly by mistake and were to give the inhabitants of Berlin new courage. That was done in the days when Hitler, according to Speer's testimony, had already told his entourage that there was no use trying to do anything for the rest of the German people.
DR. FITZ: Mr. President, the two radio speeches which the defendant Fritsche has mentioned, dealing with the "Athenia" case are in the document Fritsche Exhibit Number 1, which I submitted yesterday. I refer only to the contents of these radio speeches. BY DR. FRITZ:
Q. please give examples of untruths which you know and which you did not consider lies ?
A. One example is the so-called "V" drive. A colonel, a British colonel on the British radio proclaimed this "V" drive, Colonel Britton, this "Victory" drive. On the same evening I stood before a German microphone and said, appare tly harmlessly --"We will have a "V" drive, the "V" stands for Victoria."
Then Colonel Britton said that I had stolen the "V" from him. I said that was not the case, I thought of it first.
Q. If you thought you were operating only with the truth, why your sharp language, why the prohibition against listening on the radio to foreign stations ?
A. I have already emphasized in my affidavit that in my opinion the sharpness of my language was less than that of my opponents. The prohibition against listening to foreign radio stations was issued against my will. For me this prohibition was only a hindrance in my discussion with my foreign opponents in the various countries. In this type of prohibition my enemy was, so to speak, in half shadow, I could not speak to him officially. But, an the other hand, I knew that many of my listeners had heard him and they mention here that always advocated a mild judgment of the violators of this prohibition against listening to foreign radio stations. Justice officials often asked me as an expert. I may emphasize that particularly after Stalingrad I established my own monitoring service for the Russian radio in order to learn the names of German soldiers captured at Stalingrad which were mentioned on the Russian radio and report them to the relatives because it seemed cruel to me to deprive the relatives of such a source of information about the date of their people.
prohibition of listening to the radio. That was to confiscate all radios and stop the whole German radio system. The Party often demanded this. The prohibition against listening to foreign stations seemed to me the lesser of the two evils. lar in his methods. I should like to give an example. That was th station Gustav Siegfried, which at the beginning of its work tried to gain listeners in Germany with descriptions that I shall not giv in detail but which occasioned me to prohibit my own monitoring station from receiving this broadcast. ploitation of the occupied territories. Do you acknowledge such a policy?
A No. The aim of all my propaganda work in Europe was, and had to be, to win over the peoples of Europe to the German cause. Anything else would have been illogical. All the radio broadcasts in all European languages which were made under my direction for years had only one aim. That was to win the voluntary cooperation, especially of the occupied territories, for the fight of the Reich. the occupied territories recruited voluntary cooperation? That was Koch in the Ukraine. Otherwise, as far as I could see, all administrations of occupied territories sought this collaboration more or less skillfully. I saw the gigantic efforts which the Allie made to interfere with this German collaboration policy, which was very dangerous to them. I saw these efforts of the Allies, at first by means of propaganda. This alone would not have worked. Then I saw these efforts by other means, and methods of attacks and sabotag These efforts had great success. Attacks always called for reprisal and reprisals always called forth new attacks. cally, if I say the following: I, as a propagandist, considered, fo example, the murder of Heydrich as a small success.
The destruction of Lidici, carried out by the Germans, however, was a tremendous success for the Allies. In other words, I always was and had to be an opponent of reprisals of all kinds.
Q Did you know of the reprisals? How did you deal with them in your propaganda? months, because at that time I was at the Eastern Front. I learned--and this is significant -- of the destruction of the houses of Lidici and the driving out of the inhabitants. I learned only here in the Courtroom of the killing of a part of the inhabitants. I learned that hostages were taken, but not that they were killed. The killing of hostages was made public only in the occupied territories. If shootings occurred anywhere, I was told that they had been of persons condemned to death. The Nacht and Nobel Decree was also unknown to me. been imposed on states or districts. In all propaganda, we always referred to the causes of such reprisals. trations in your propaganda? spite of all difficulties and all resistance, was being done in th various occupied territories, especially -- and far at the head -the work for the intensification of agriculture; then that to increase industrial production. Then I had references made to the supplying of the occupied territories with food, often, as I should like to emphasize, from the scant German supplies. I had reports made of the creation of schools, and I received at times very impressive reports and had them worked on, for example, on the supplying of cities such as Paris, in spite of the attacks of the enemy against railroad lines or other transportation. I had such reports collected in permanent files and had speeches and whole series of speeches made on them. There were many such reports. I must empha size that as far as I know, in not a single German occupied territory was there on infant mortality of 80 per cent, and in none were there fields lying fallow, and it is simply not true, as the prosecution said here once, although in a moment of excitement, that Germany and the Germans were well fed and happy during the war while the occupied territories starved.
That is not true. territories? own administration and their lack of decisive political concessions in the countries which administered themselves. Immediately after the French campaign, I had repeatedly demanded the establishment of a Magna Charta, laying down the basic rights of the European peoples I prepared many memoranda on this subject which were accepted by Dr. Goebbels, taken to Hitler, and when in the fall of 1942 I decide to return to the Propaganda Ministry, one of the promises which Dr. Goebbels gave me was the promise that now finally this Magna Charta would be proclaimed.
DR. FRITZ: Mr. President, on this occasion I should like to quote a passage from the Scharping affidavit, document Fritsche Exhibit No. 2. Page 13 of the affidavit.
"After the occupation of various European countries, Fritsche issued directives for news to the effect that the peoples of Europe were to conclude a league of states on the basis of equality with Germany. He told me to work out a series of speeches to this effect in which this point of view was to play the decisive role and which at the same time would give the agencies hints for the reconstruction in the occupied territories." BY DR. FRITZ: about the activity of the police in the occupied territories?
Q Another question: I have asked the witness Paulus about your conduct after you learned of the Commissar Order. How about that?