That was the measure of the Work Book.
Then we come to Document No. 22 of 23 July, 1943, about limitation of the udration of employment of Eastern workers, of employment contracts, where it is said, as a matter of principle, that the duration should be two years, with certain modifications, and that leaves and premiums should be granted for work accomplished a leave in Germany should be provided and, under certain conditions, a leave at home. For the vacations in Germany, such as can be seen here, special leave center leave camps for Eastern workers had been established. The reason was that, on account of transport conditions and other circumstances, these workers could not make the trip home, especially if they came from districts which, in the meantime, were no more occupied by Germans.
Then there follows Decree No. 13. That is Document No. 23, on page 62 in the English Document Book. That decree deals with the safeguarding of order in industrial plants. It is the decree on the basis of which measures could be taken for the safeguarding of order and discipline. I have submitted them in order to show that they were valid as well for German as for foreign workers and there were no rules of exception which would be directed against Eastern workers.
I refer to Document No. 26 then. That is page 66 in the English Document Book. That is a decree of 24 July, 1944, according to which the position of domestic workers from the East should be put on an equal footing with that of the German workers as a matter principle. The hours are regulated, time off; that is every week the female domestic worker has to have a certain amount of free time. The question of vacations is regulated in Paragraph 7, that they will be granted a leave after twelve months.
THE PRESIDENT: Are those figures right in Document 26, Page 67 in the English Document Book? Working hours to fall between 6:00 o'clock in the morning and 9:00 o'clock at night?
DR. SERVATIUS: It says there: "The regular working hours, including intervals in preparation for work, are to fall between 0600 and 2100 hours, if special conditions do not call for other arrangements." That doesn't mean that the work should be done from 6:00 o'clock in the morning until 9:00 o'clock at night, June-1-M-EF-11-2. Price.
but between these two extremes these people have to work. It means to say -
The President: Are the figures correct?
DR. SERVATIUS: The figures are correct. plants, their position in industrial plants. It is a decree by the German labor Front. There are come principal statements made there. "The pleasure in work and willingness of German workers was not under any circumstances to be endangered by a material improvement in the position of foreign workers. Concerning the treatment of foreign workers, it must be taken into consideration that they came coluntarily to Germany and are making their labor available for the carrying out of tasks of military importance. In order to retain their pleasure in work, regard for their contract conditions, absolutely just treatment and general care and attention are presupposed." Document 28 is the agreement between Ley and Sauckel on page 74 of the English document book, concerning the central inspectorate. It has already been submitted by the prosecution. Reich Inspectorate has the following tasks: "The supervision of the execution of my regulations and decrees; on the basis of practical knowledge gained, the Reich Inspectorate shall make suggestions, propose improvements ant faster mutual exchange of experiences." offices. In the English document book, that is on page 79 and is entitled "French agencies for the care of the French workers utilized in the Reich." I believe I have already read the document here. With that, I have finished document book one.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, we will adjourn.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 3 June, 1946 at 1000 hours.)
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius.
DR. SERVATIUS: Mr. President, I present the information that the witness Jaeger is expected to appear in about half an hour. I shall present and read some other documents from my document book, if it please the Tribunal. ments, with exception of Document 16, which I have left out by mistake. It is the "Memorandum for Eastern Workers." I need not read it, but shall only refer to it.
I have submitted as Exhibit No. 1 the manual for the "Commitment of Manpower," and in this exhibit we find the following documents which I have in part quoted, or shall quote right now: Documents 12, 13, 15, 22, 28, 58A, 67A, 82, 83, 85, 83 and 88.
Then I have submitted Exhibit No. 2, "Special Proclamation Condition of Eastern Workers and Soviet Russian Prisoners of War," which contained the following documents: Nos. 6, 32, 36, 39, 47 and 52.
Then as Exhibit No. 3 I have submitted the manifesto for "Commitment of manpower" document No. 84.
Then as Exhibit No. 4, Labor Laws and collection of text of German Labor Laws, which contains documents Nos. 16, 31 and 49.
As Exhibit No. 5 I submitted a book, "The Fighting Speeches of Fritz Sauckel"; that is document No. 95.
Then as Exhibit No. 6, this has been submitted, The National Socialist Government activity in Thuringia.
As Exhibit No. 7, "The National Socialist Government Activity in Thuringia" for the years of 1933 and 1934. That contains document No. 97.
I have also submitted as Exhibit No. 8 the booklet entitled, "Europe work on Germany," which has already been submitted as RS No. 5.
Sauckel, which is very short. It refers to an incident of Fritz Sauckel, allegedly an evacuation of the camp of Buchenwald. I quote briefly from only an eight line affidavit.
"Between the 4th and 7th of April 1915, approximately; I was present when my father, Gauleiter Fritz Saucker, has a conference in his office. At this occasion the question of the Buchenwald camp was discussed and the following was decided:" That is in document book No. 94, page 247. Continuing the quotation: "A certain number of guards should remain at the camp until the arrival of the foe, in view of transmitting the camp prisoners to him. I present the preceding affidavit in order that, it be submitted to the International Military Tribunal in Nurnberg. I am ready to swear to the truth of my declaration. Dieter Sauckel." I submit this as Exhibit No. 8.
In Exhibit No. 205, which has been submitted the following documents are contained which I shall quote later: Nos. 7, 10, 14, 18, 19, 27, and 41. collection of laws. I have had an individual research in the library, and I do not know whether necessary to submit it individually, or whether sufficient if I quote here and point out in what volume they can be found, that is the Reichsgesetzblatt.
THE PRESIDENT: Are they in your document book?
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes. They are short excerpts from the Reichsgesetzblatt, official publications of law.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, I think it would be convenient if you gave their exhibit numbers, if they are in your book, but I do not quite understand how you are arranging these. You told us that number one contained a great number of other numbers. Now is number one the exhibit number?
DR. SERVATIUS: No.1 is the Exhibit number and within this Exhibit there are the documents with the individual numbers which -
THE PRESIDENT: In the books ?
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: So that you are only submitting -- up to the present you have only gotten so far as none exhibits.
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: And then you are going to give these various laws which you have in your books additional exhibit numbers. They will be 10 to -
DR. SERVATIUS: I did not know whether it was necessary to submit these laws as exhibits, as I know they have already been submitted -- these Reich laws. They are an official collection of laws, the Reichsgesetzblatt of 1942, 1940. Of course, Ican take out individual sheets and submit them here.
THE PRESIDENT: Wouldn't it be best if you submitted them as, say, Exhibit 10, and then told us the numbers in your books which are contained in No.10?
DR. SERVATIUS: Then it would be necessary to submit that exhibit, the original text. That is the collection of laws. I would have to submit it, and I wanted to avoid that; because they are known.
THE PRESIDENT: We can take judicial notice of them.
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes, I ask the Tribunal to take official notice of them I will only point out, then, the last publication in which these documents can be found, and ask that judicial notice be taken of them.
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. Which was the first Reichgesetzblatt, the one which contained 8, 11 and 17?
DR. SERVATIUS: 1942.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yes.
DR. SERVATIUS: The second was Reichsgesetzblatt 1940, with Document 45 The fourth is Reichgesetzblatt -- rather, Reichsarbeitsblatt (Labor Publication), Document 33.
THE PRESIDENT: What year, though?
THE SERVATIUS: 1940. No.9, 35, 40, 45, 50, 51, 64 A. 48, 54, 55, 57, 60, 60A, 61, 62, 64 and 68. 58, 59, 65, 67 and 89.
I will briefly go through the Document Book now. I begin with Document Book No.2. prisoners of war. That is the agreement of the 27th July 1939. There is an excerpt on the labor of prisoners of war, and in Article 31 the prohibited labor is mentioned. of Labor about the use of prisoners of war in places of employment, and there it is pointed out in detail for what types of work these prisoners of war can be used. And among these types of work there is not the manufacture of arms, only work in agriculture, forestry, important road-building, canals, large factories, and similar details. took place, that is, the collaboration of the camp with the management of the industry, that a contract was worked out which took care of the regulations in detai , and it can be seen from there that the agency of Sauckel had nothing to do with that. prisoners of war and the attitude towards prisoners of war, a memorandum which was drawn up jointly by the OKW and the Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda:
"Prisoners of war must be treated in such a way that their full productive capacity will be for the benefit of industry and food economy; a presupposition for this is sufficient nourishment." worker status of prisoners of war for work in Germany and shows that they get a certain compensation, that is a financial compensation, for trying to main-tain a separate household -- all of which shows these workers were really treated like civilian workers.
Belgian, Dutch prisoners of war by their relatives in the Reich. It says:
"Visits to French, Belgian and Dutch prisoners of war, likewise Italian Military internees, are permitted only to wives, parents, children and sister's who work in Germany or have their homes in Alsace or Lorraine, and then only on Sundays and holidays." for the use of prisoners of war, and it deals with the time, the working hours:
"The daily working time, including the time of marching to and from work, should not be more and not less, than that of the German worker."
And then it says:
"The right of the prisoners of war to a continuous rest period of twenty-four hours, to be granted when possible on Sundays."
Under Paragraph 7 of that same document it is stated that:
"Neither the employer nor his relatives, nor his employees, are entitled to carry out any punitive measures against the prisoners of war." accommodations, food. It is Directive 9 from Sauckel concerning the inspection of accommodations, food, heating and upkeep of the camps by camp artisan. It is dated the 14th of July, 1942:
"By August 10, 1942, an inspection of all industrial establishments in their respective regions which employ foreign labor must be carried out by all labor offices with a view to establishing that they duly abide by all regulations and decrees governing accommodation, feeding and treatment of all foreign male and female workers and prisoners of war. It is my desire that the administrative offices of NSDAP and DAF participate in this check-up in an appropriate measure."
Furthermore, under 2 Q in the same document it is stated: their respective Food Control Offices (Department A) to insure the allocation of the supplies needed for foreign labor working in their camps during the coming winter."
The decree closes with a directive that artisans should be employed in the camp and are to be paid by the camps, and are to be charged with its upkeep and repair.
Paragraph 3 of this document reads:
"All establishments are directed to order minimum of fuel and provide storage facilities in due time, so as to permit heating of camps and billets on the setting in of cold weather. They should immediately advise their Economic Board of their needs at once." Eastern workers, which contains camp rules. It says:
"The General Plenipotentiary for Labor Commitment has issued notice sheets for the plant supervisors and Eastern workers, now that the commitment of Eastern workers has been intensified."
The camp rules then go on to say:
"Eastern workers, you are finding in Germany wages and bread, and you are safeguarding by your work the maintenance of your family"-
THE COURT: Couldn't you summarize these documents more shortly?
the task of the German Labor Front, DAF, which is explained in detail.
Document 42 deals with the same subject. That stresses the inspectorates and says that for the care of foreign workers all necessary measures have to be taken, the supevision offices and other offices have to regulate that together with the Labor Front. It is ministered by Reichs Labor Minister Seldte, not by Sauckel; and from document 43 one can see that Sauckel has not become the Labor minister. to which I will refer in detail later. But as to the document 43 I should like to stress again the position of the inspectorates, the "Gewerbeaufsichtsamt." And here is the question of responsibility for hygiene, and it says in the end the authority in the sense of the new regulation is the "Gewerbeaufsichtsamt" and inspectorate. It is important for the medical supervision which, after all, has been taken car of by the inspectorate; which the witness will show later on. sleeping quarters, and about medical care; signed again by the Reich Labor Minister Franz Seldte.
The next group of documents deals with food. Document 45 is the meat inspection law which treats the question how far meat is in condition fit for consumption and can be used.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, about the inspection of meat, we do not require any further information about it.
DR. SERVATIUS: Then 46 shows that the foreign workers if they were not in the camp received their food rationing cards. was responsible for determinging the nutrition quotas. The document also gives the rations. I mention only a few for foreign workers. 2600 gram of bread per week. That increases, and we can reach that later in case these questions should become important.
THE PRESIDENT: Page 126 shows that prisoners of war are employed in the armament industry, doesit not? Page 128.
DR. SERVATIUS: It says there the food rations of Soviet prisoners of war working in the armament industry as far as they are in camps; and then there is a list of rations. I cannot see -
THE PRESIDENT: 128 in English, page 128, lines 4 to 12, treatment of the sick; All prisoners of war and eastern workers, male and female, who are employed in the armament industry.
DR. SERVATIUS: It says there: All prisoners of war or eastern workers who are employed in the armament industry. Armament industry is not weapons manufacture -- armament manufacture. out a short sentence but I can do without that. It refers to the taking along of food in case of trips to the home country. That has to do with supplies one the trip home. on diet in the hospitals; and that was also taken care of.
The next group are questions of wages delat with. The first is document 50.
THE PRESIDENT: It seems to me sufficient if you give us a group and then tell us what it deals with, when we can look at it.
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes. That is from 50 to 59. There is one left out, document 56. The questions of wages. And charts are included here, and one has to deal with these things when they become acute. Therefore, I shall not make any specified statements about that now. 58 about medical care. I believe here also I do not have to go through the documents because they will become only necessary in connection with the subject -
THE PRESIDENT: Give us a group and tell us what it is about and then we can look at it.
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes. It deals with the medical care and, as I said, it becomes only interesting in dealing with details when a particular case becomes acute. It is not necessary to present them now. power are contained in the manual. I would like to refer to one in particular that is of the 6th January '43, a speech made on the 6th January '43 which was after the conference between Sauckel and Rosenberg.
It says there the Plenipotentiary for manpower on the 5th January -- it is 204 in my book and in the English text it should also be 204.
THE PRESIDENT: Probably that 8000 should be 800.
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes. Yes, it should be 800. I have also mentioned that document already and read the central parts from it. essential parts. same lines, the essential that in 1943 they had the same tendency as they had before. They show the same tendency as before.
Document 86 is a speech of the 24th August '43 to the presidents of the labor offices. Here again Sauckel stresses in his speech responsibility of the labor presidents, his basic principles which he has mentioned here frequently. He adheres to that on the 17th January '44. That is document 88. Again in his speech before his presidents, by stressing that point of view, and by saying: The foreign workers have to be treated better and better, and in the end: "The more I do for the foreign laborers working in Germanh, the better I treat they , the more I influence them spiritually, to that much larger extent will I have their productive capacities at my disposal." And that was shortly -- two months before he succeeded in the equalization between foreign and domestic workers.
THE PRESIDENT: We have heard the defendant Sauckel explain.
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: That the work was carried on. And will you tell us where the group of speeches -- how far does the group go?
DR. SERVATIUS: It does up to and including document 89.
Document 94 I have read already. Document 95, 96, 97 I have already read as far as necessary. And that brings me to the end of the presentation of documents. Now, I would have to mention affidavit which is attached to document book by the Witness Karl Goetz.
I submit, then, as Exhibit No. 10 an affidavit by Karl Goetz. That is an interrogatory Which has been submitted very early, and therefore was kept in a general way, because details at that time were not very apparent. Therefore, the witness could not say anything specific to a number of questions. he has given, and also in answering the questions raised by the prosecution, he refers to that introduction. Therefore, I believe that I have also to read these passages from the introduction.
The affidavit is of the 20th of March, 1946. From the introduction, I should like to emphasize on the second page where it mentions a conference in Paris that witness Goetz was a banking expert in Weimar in southern Thuringia, who assisted Sauckel and his staff. He was a statistician and took part in the negotiations with Laval. He said that negotiations led to a long conference, and according to his observations, "in correct and polite manner. Laval took notice of Sauckel's proposal and agreed to accede to his demand. But he made counterporposals for political reasons." less significance.
Then he said again on the third pa*e, "During a later conference in Paris the proceedings were similar. Laval had assumed a stiffer attitude, and he pointed out that great difficulties had to be overcome before additional workers could be procured. He emphasized that the French labor employment should not be stripped of its best forces."
I believe I can turn on to Page 4. The witness says, "My last mission for Sauckel was to determine whether it was possible by means of pooling all banking connections to purchase an additional amount of grain from Rumania and Hungary (about 50-100,000 tone of grain). This grain was to be used for additional luncheon br*ad to be distributed to foreign laborers."
Then he says that that could never be worked out, in fact. Then he gives a general impression of Sauckel, and says briefly that Sauckel approached that task with his particular energy, and pointed out frequently that it was the major duty of the various offices to see to the correct treatment of workers at their place of employment.
Then he described the details. First of all, he demanded that foreign workers should not have the feeling of being imprisoned, and he continues by saying that he believes that Sauckel said that the workers had to be returned at their native countries as German propaganda agents. of atrocities. I should like to read on Page 6 in order to show what kind of person this Goetz is.
THE PRESIDENT: What page is your excerpt from?
DR. SERVATIUS: Page 6, or Page 266 of the document book, at the top of the page.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Go on.
DR. SERVATIUS: It says: "I feel that I should mention that following my arrest by the Gestapo after the affair of 20 July 1944, Sauckel spoke in my behalf with Security Headquarters (Kaltenbrunner?). I cannot say whether my discharge from the concentration camp Ravensbrueck was thereby affected.
" I wish to state that I have not received from Sauckel any material remuneration nor have I received honorary titles or decorations.
" I found it expedient to conceal from him my own political convictions and also my connections with Goerdeler and Popitz. In his blind obedience to Hitler, and in spite of our old friendship, he would no doubt have handed me over to the Gestapo, from which he endeavored to free me in November, 1944." who was then active in the staff of Sauckel, takes position on a question which is interesting to all of us. He says:
"I am thinking how the above conditions compare with the official publication of gruesome conditions as they were found to exist in concentration camps. In spite of my concentration, I have not been able to come to any definite conclusion on this subject. I perceive on one side the foreign workers -
THE PRESIDENT: What page is this? Page 265?
DR. SERVATIUS: Page 265. It is near the top of the page. Where it is in the English text, I cannot say; but it should be Page 265.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. SERVATIUS: "I perceive on one side the foreign workers, men and women, who circulate freely and in great numbers, and associate with the German people. I had a personal interest to speak with Frenchmen and Belgians. They were happy to hear and to converse in their native tongue. They were speaking freely, hoping the war would soon end. They were critical of their employment, but they never spoke very bitterly. On the other side appears the unbearable picture of the new revealed mass atrocities. It was known that foreign workers were tried and sentenced. But it was not known that mass sentences were handed down. They probably became the victims of the same punitive measures and miscarriage of justice as was applied to the Germans. But that had really nothing to do with the employment of labor. I find it impossible to reconcile what I heard and what I saw in those days with the present revelations. It is possible that the above is a development which took place in the last year and a half. I was not able to observe the situation during that time because of my arrest, and the time I spent in seclusion in the country. It is also possible that there existed a vast concentration camp pool besides the regular pool of foreign workers. It is also possible that Sauckel was not able to supervise the whole system clearly, and was not informed of certain phases, or that he deceived himself with his written and oral orders. I an unable to understand the latter course." witness has stood on the side of the men of the 20th of July and certainly observed Sauckel carefully; and his judgement has to be taken very seriously. relevant; also, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. All of those are answers which are of minor importance when compared to Question 10, which is on Page 276. The question was "Who was responsible for billeting, maintenance, and messing of foreign workers after they had arrived at the place of work?"
And the answer was: "I heard only that, from, the moment work was started, the responsibility rested on the work manager (and in most cases on subordinated employees)."
Question 11 is: "What order did Sauckel issue for the treatment of these workers in the plants?"
introduction which I have read.
The next questions, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 are irrelevant. Question 18 is: "Did Sauckel receive reports about irregular conditions? What measures did he take? Do you know of any individual cases?"
Answer: "I remember only one case. Sauckel was informed that the workers of a certain plant were still housed in a barbed wire enclosed camp. I cannot recollect the none of the place or the plant concerned. I heard that he ordered the immediate removal of the enclosure."
Then we come to the questions which are put by the prosecution. I believe that Question 1 is not relevant, because it deals with the personal relations to Sauckel, and how he met him. He met him as a prisoner of war.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, Mr. Riddle thinks that the prosecution ought to be asked to read, anything they wish to out of those interrogatories.
M. HERZOG: The prosecution, Mr. President, does not wish to read any excerpts from this cross examination,
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, you know that the witness Jaeger is present, do you not?
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes, he is present.
THE PRESIDENT: You know he is present.
DR. SERVATIUS: Then with the permission of the Tribunal, I will call the witness Jaeger.
DR. WILHELM JAEGER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Will you state your full name. please?
A Dr. Wilhelm Jaeger.
Q Will you repest this oath after me: and will withold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down. BY, DR. SERVATIUS: of caring for the camps of foreign workers as a doctor?
Q Is that true?
Q Who put you in charge there?
A I was apponted by the firm of Krupp. which employed me, since the change war brought about by the fact that the organization of doctors had to take over the care of foreign workers.
Q Were you not also put in charge by the German Labor Front?
A No. The Labor Front aid have the contract which was made between the firm of Krupp and myself. It went through the German Labor Front.
Q If I unerstand you correctly. you did not conclude the contract immediately with the labor Front, but you were under obligations to the German Labor Front, were you not? respect. about the conditions in the camps?
A That happened only in a few cases as near as I can remember. Mostly, I sent these reports to the hospitalization agency and to the firm of Krupp.
Q Didn't you also report to the official work inspectorate?
A Not always. I reported to the health office of the City of Essen, but only in urgent cases in which it appeared, important to me to have the health office informed.
Q Do you know of the office of health and national protection?
Q With what office was that connected?
Q Not as far as the locality is concerned, but with what office was it? Wasn't it with the German Labor Front?
A I could not say that precisely. I only know that there was a department of that with the hospitalization agency in Essen. Labor Front?
Q Always as far as their health was concerned?
Q Do you know of the institution of the Gau camp doctors? not succeed. At the time when we had just come through a typhus epidemic I approached the Gau Health Leader -- that was a Dr. Heinz Buehler -- and I suggested to him instituting such an office; then, also, in a meeting I spoke about a air, but I did not hear anything about that any more from the Gau Health Leader
Q How many camps,did you supervise?
A That varied. First there may have been five or six; then later maybe seven teen or eighteen; then again they were reduced to a lower figure. But I am not able at this moment to give you these figures exactly.
Q What was your task?
Q Did you have anything to do with the treatment of sick workers? sonally tried to care for individual cases in the camps whenever I inspected the self in the camps?
A Yes. When I was in any camp I was asked by the camp doctors and I advised them.
Q What was the job of the camp doctors? sick ones in general.
Q So your activity was a supervisory one? court room. is that true?
Q You have been in Nurnberg before, in this building here? That was when the proceedings statrted?
Q Did you sign an affidavit about the conditions in the Krupp camps?
Q I will put this affidavit to you. This is an affidavit of 15 October, '45 Did you give that affidavit as a witness for the prosecution? made at that time?
Q I shall read the statements to you: "My name is Dr. Wilhelm Jaeger. I am a Physician in Essen --"
The PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, we can't have the whole document read to him. You can put to him anything you want to challenge him upon.
DR. SERVATIUS: Very well. BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q You say, at about the middle of the third page: "I began my work with an overall inspection of the camps. At that time, in October of '42, I found the following conditions: --" and you go on to say: "The eastern workers were house in the following camps: Seumannstrasse, Grieperstrasse, Spendlestrasse, Haegstras Germaniastrasse --"
THE PRESIDENT: Are you challenging that?
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Where were these camps?
DR. SERVATIUS: Yes, that is what I want to ask him.
BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q Did these camps exist at the time?
A So far as I can remember. One has to take into consideration that until I started my work I did not know at all what camps existed. In a meeting which had been called of Physicians of various nationalities, I asked first of all what kind of camps there were; one didn't know it. Thereupon, first a list was brought which mentioned these camps. that these camps existed at that time, in October, '42? ginning of my activities. Also, I had to go to each one of these camps personally and I had to depend entirely upon myself. will look at the second page of the document, you said the following; "The food for the Eastern workers was quite unsatisfactory. They received one thousand callories per day less than the minimum for Germans, --"
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, below the names of the camps, he says: "All surrounded by barbed wire and were closely guarded." I understand you are challenging that? BY DR, SERVATIUS:
Q But you don't know whether that was the same in the case of all camps, do you?
A The camps which I visited where they didn't know me yet, for instance, Kraemerolatz and Dechenschule, they were closely guarded and I had to show my credentials in order to get in.
Q I repeat the question concerning the food. You said the Eastern workers received one thousand callories per day less than the minimum for Germans; whereas German workers who did hard work received five thousand callories per day, the eastern workers who performed the same kind of work received only two thousand callories per day. Is that true?
A That was true at the beginning of my activities. The Food for Eastern workers, as I could see from the list, was established, and there was a difference in the supply for Eastern workers.
The five thousand callories which I mentioned here were given to specific categories of German workers who did the hardest type of work. That was not generally established.
DR. SERVATIUS: I submit to the Tribunal a copy of this chart. That is a table of callories to which the individual categories of workers were entitled. It begins with the 9th of February, '42, and it shows the individual quotas for types of workers, and on the last page there is a summary of the average quotas of callories which were appropriated. BY DR. SERVATIUS: Q It is shown there in the summary, Group I, Eastern workers and Soviet prisoners of War, average workers 2651 callories; heavy workers 2615; heaviest workers 2909; agricultural workers 2444. Are you familiar with these figures?
Q Will you compare what the German workers received; the normal consumer 2846 callories; heavy workers 3159; heaviest type of work 3839; agricultural workers 2046. Is that inaccord with your statement, according to which you said that German heaviest workers received five thousand callories whereas the Eastern workers received only two thousand?
THE PRESIDENT: It is very hard to follow these figures unless you give us the exact page. Are you on the last page?
DR. SERVATIUS: On the last page there is a summary -
THE PRESIDENT: Well, which page are you on?
DR. SERVATIUS: On the last page, the last sheet on the right side. First are the nutritional groups 1, 2, 3 on various pages, and then 011 the last page on the right side, next to Group 3, there is a summary of callories for Eastern workers, for Germans and for Poles; and if you compare here the columns, the amount of callories, then that should be according to what the witness has stated here. He picked out the heaviest workers and says that the Germans received five thousand. The table shows that they only received 3839. And he says the eastern workers received two thousand whereas, according to the table, they received 2800. That is, instead of a proportion of five thousand to two thousand, it is from 2800 to 3800, and that is a thousand callories and not, as the witness has said here, three thousand callories. Is that correct? Do you stand on your -