Then Yugoslav groups in compliance with my invitation came to Germany. But that Yugoslav youth entered the German Army, I know nothing about that, and I do not believe it is so. But I can say that in the period of time when Prince Regent Paul was reigning in Yugoslavia there was a very close collaboration with the Yugoslavian youth. During the war, with Serbian and Croatian youth we maintained fine relations as well. German youth were there, and Serbian and Croatian youth were in the Germany. They were in German Youth Camps; they were in German leader schools and looked at our installations. That is perhaps everything I can tell you about this. But that was not only a relationship between us and Yugoslavia but a relationship which existed with many other countries as well.
Q. You did not understand me correctly. I was not speaking of the Yugoslavian youth. I was speaking of the German National minority youth of which this report speaks and who with the participation of the Hitler Youth prepared cadres of Fifth Column activity for diversional operations and the presentation of the SS units. That is what I was speaking about. Are you acquainted with these facts?
A. I know that ther were Volksdeutsche -- that is, German nationals -in Yugoslavia as well as Rumania and other countries. I know that this German youth felt themselves to be Hitler Youth. When the German troops marched in, these people greeted the German troops. That I know also, but just how far they worked together, that is, between the troops and the youth -- that I cannot tell you about; but a working together, a collaboration, would be natural; of course, it would not be a military working together, but rather a collaboration which would work itself out with an occupational force when the youth belonged to the same nationality, something which would result in every case. But there was no espionage or any other activities like that involved.
Q. But the SS Division, Prinz Eugen, which was formed on Yugoslavian territory was completed in major part by Hitler Youth members of the National German minority in Yugoslavia and this occurred as a result of the corresponding preparation by the Hitler Jugend.
Isn't that so? Do you admit that? many -- how they were recruited. It is possible that some German nationals were recruited in the locality involved, but I can't give you definite information. I have none.
Q I will quote from excerpts from two German documents. They have not yet been submitted to the Tribunal. The first excerpt is from a book by Dr. Jan ko Sepp, who was the Youth Leader in Yugoslavia, entitled "Speeches and Article She wrote:
"All our national work before the kst of September, 1939, depended on the help of the Reich. When on the 1st of September 1939, war began and when it first appeared impossible to receive further aid, there was a danger that all our work would have to be suspended. Further, the fact that I put at the disposal of the Fuehrer the entire German national group in the former Yugoslavian territory and that it gave him so many volunteer soldiers, is a subject of grea pride for me."
The next excerpt is from an article, "We", something written in 1943 by Otto Kohler, who was lender of German youth in that territory. Dr. Kohler wrote in that article :
"Ninety per cent of our youth are also members of the organizations of the German Youth." vity and Fifth Column activity and the formation in some ranks of the German youth of Facist organizations was carried out on Yugoslav territory with the aid of the Hitler Youth. Please answer yes or no.
A No. But I should like to comment on these documents .
This Dr. Janko Sepp, the leader of the Volksdeutsche - the German nationals -- in Yugoslavia is not known to me, either by name or personally. I visited Yugoslavia several times in the past and neither in the time I believe when I was there for the first time in 1937 or later on in 1939 when I visited Prince Regent Paul did I concern myselg with the leaders of youth. On these visits I dealt only with national Yugoslavian leaders. And that is my comment on the first document.
This document does not seem to apply to youth at all. self the Hitler Youth Leader in Group 7 -- as to that I can only say it seems to be taken from a book about German Youth in Hungary in 1933 where in the Batschka we had a large settlement of Germans, people who had been living there 150 to 200 years, and this Youth leader organized German youth there, but with the approof Education and in collaboration with other Hungarian offices and agencies. It was an entirely legal measure and because of this there was no controversy between the two countries involved. The young people were not members of the German Hitler Youth but they belonged to groups which were minority groups in Hungary. similar organizations abroad?
A Of course, we visited those youths. If, for instance I was a guest in Budapest the Hungarians themselves offered to have me visit German youth and German villages. The administrator had no objections, nor did any office of the Government. And there was no reason why I should try to have espionage work in Hungarian Youth leaders with whom I was on very good terms.
Q. But there was a special foreign section in the Reich Leadership of the Hitler Yout. Was not its task the leadership of the German Youth Organizations abroad?
A. That is not correct. It is not correct. The Auslandamt of the Reich Youth Leadership, was, if I may say so, the foreign office of the younger generation. The task of the Auslandamt was maintaining contacts with other national youth organizations. That is, the leaders of youth abroad were to be invited to Germany and return visits by germans would be organized abroad and along the lines of the foreign offices. This office turned to the Foreign Office, and the Foreign Office would turn to the Ambassador of the country involved. referring was the subordinate organization of the H.O., and chief of this unit, Gauleiter Bohle, has already been heard in this proceeding.
In foreign countries youth consisted of German national youth; that is, youth who were German nationals abroad, who formed units of the Hitler Youth. In, let us say, Budapest, the children of the German colony, starting with the children of the German Ambassador.
THE PRESIDENT: Surely, defendant, it is not necessary to make such a long speech about it. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV:
Q. You are giving too many details. department was created in the first Hauptamt. What do you know about this office and what was its relationship to the Reich Leadership of youth? Please answer briefly.
A. From my knowledge, I can say that at the forming of the Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories, Reichsleiter Rosenberg at that time expressed the wish that he wanted a collaborator for the Division Youth and to have this collaborator in the Ministry. This collaborator was appointed. He was taken into the Ministry, and there he was the head of the Department Youth. He was, of course, under the responsibility of the Ministry for the East. More I can not tell you about that.
The reports from this sector did not come to me.
Q. You mean that this representative was transferred to the Ministry for Eastern Occupied Territories and that this gentleman did not send in any report to the Reich Youth Leadership; is that right?
A. General, I wanted to say that the head of this department, this official, whatever he was, in the Eastern Ministry who came from the Hitler Youth, did not report to me. He naturally reported to his immediate superior in the Reich Youth Leadership, and this group was in Berlin, and I assume that the collaborators of the staff of the Reich Youth Leadership were in constant touch with him.
Q. As I understand it, the measures that were carried out by the Youth Office in the Reich Ministry of Eastern Occupied Territories were carried out with the knowledge of theReich Youth Leadership; is that right?
A. Measures which were carried through there were carried through, of course, according to principles laid down by the Reich Minister, who was the immediate superior of these officials. As far as we were dealing with youth measures, the treatment of youth, anything like that specially, I am sure that the Youth Leader or the official involved told the Reich Ministry and was informed, but as far as responsibility was concerned, the Minister is always responsible, not the place from which the Youth Leader comes from.
Q. To the question put to you by your Defense Counsel regarding the participation of the Youth in the was excesses, you answered that the data supplied by the Polish State Commission were not true.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Gentlemen of the Tribunal, the Soviet Prosecution have had occasion to go into this matter deeper and I now submit to the Tribunal excerpts from the testimony of the witness Vasso, dated 16 May 1946, and I would like to submit it as USSR Exhibit 455. I shall now read the excerpts into the record:
"Not only adult Germans and old Nazis, but German youths in the person of representatives of the organized Facist Hitler Jugend Organization in Lwov took part in atrocities committed on Jewish, Polish and Soviet population of the town of Lwov. Dressed in uniforms and armed with hunting knives and often pistols, they broke into Jewish apartments in the towns and carried out depredations there, killing everybody, aged persons and children.
They often stopped children whom they considered suspect and whom they met on the street and, with the cry of "You are a Jew" or "You are a Jewish girl", killed them on the spot.
"This Hitler Youth occupied itself with special reconnaisance work for ascertaining the location of Jewish apartments and hunted for Jews in hiding, organized raids and attacked passersby, killing some of them on the spot, or drawing them into the Gestapo headquarters.
"Their victims were both Jews and Poles, Russians, Ukrainains and citizens of other countries.
"This terror on the part of adult and young Germans was carried out until the last days of their stay in Lwov. This was especially apparent during the carrying out of so-called actions in the Ghetto when the children of various ages who were sheltered in specially created nursing homes were systematically exterminated according to plan." the carrying out of these atrocities. Do you admit this?
A. I do not believe a word of what is contained in this document.
Q. Well, that is your affair.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Mr. President, I am submitting to the Tribunal another document USSR 454, excerpts from the testimony of the German prisoner of war, Gerd Bruno Knittel.
Gerd Bruno Knittel was born in 1924 in Saxony. After 1938 he was a member of the Hitler Youth. His sister was also a member of the National Socialist League of German girls. In 1942 -- that is to say, when he was 18 years old -he was called up into the German army. Thus, he is a typical member, representative of the Hitler Youth, and therefore his testimony is of interest. This is what he relates about his service in the German army. I read:
"Not less then twice a week, we were called upon to comb out the forests."
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, against the use of this document -- we have received a copy of it -- I should like to protest from what I have in front of me. It does not follow at all, it is not seen at all whether this document was actually signed and, further, we cannot see whether this document was sworn to and, further, we cannot see who took down this document which seems to be a record and, in my opinion, these questions have to be clarified and until this clarification has taken place, I must object. Perhaps, Mr. President, in this connection, I might like to comment on the other document as well, a document which was read previously, dealing with the testimony of Eda Vasso -I am not absolutely sure of the name: it seems to be illegible, but I assume that this female witness is identical with the same French National Ida Vasseaux, that they are the same person about whom you gentlemen have granted a questionnaire and to whom I have submitted my questions. We are waiting for the return of our questionnaire and her answers. Today, we received a record which supposedly refers to the same female witness, dated the 16th of May 1946: and now, here -
THE PRESIDENT: I am not following quite what you are saying. Are you saying that you have issued a questionnaire to the person who is alleged to have made this document?
DR. SAUTER: I assume for sure that it is the same person, your Honor. In the record of the 16th of May, the name is spelled differently but it would have to be remarkable.
THE PRESIDENT: I am not hearing what you are saying. Are you saying that you issued a questionnaire to the person who made this document?
DR. SAUTER: Yes. The High Tribunal has granted a questionnaire to a French woman, Ida Vasseaux. I will spell the name -- V-A-S-S-E-A-U-X. That is the French woman Eda Vasso who is in an institution in Lemberg, who was working there, and who is mentioned in the Lemberg Commission Report. You perhaps remember, Mr. President, in one of these reports it says that children were taken from the ghetto and given to the"HJ", the Hitler Youth and that the Hitler Youth used these children as live targets, and that is the witness Eda Vasso, and I believe with certainty that it is the same Ida Vasseaux who is mentioned in the record of the 16th of May 1946. The remarkable thing is that in the report of the 16th of May 1946, she does not mention these points according to which she is being interrogated in the questionnaire.
Instead, she makes further assertions here which she did not make in the Lemberg Commission Report. This seems to be a very mysterious matter and I believe that I would do an injustice to the defendant von Schirach if I did not call your attention to these contradictions.
THE PRESIDENT: We would like to hear you in detail, General, in answer to what Dr. Sauter has said.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Ida Vasseaux, whose excerpts I have read, is certainly the same person of whom Dr. Sauter is speaking. I do not know to whom the interrogatory was addressed or sent. This was not done through our office. Ida Vasseaux was interrogated according to our own initiative and we only could do so on the 16th of May. A special interrogatory was not received by us. We did not send it and we could not do so because the evidence was given only -
THE PRESIDENT: I have only got this document here in German and it doesn't appear to be a document signed or made by a person called "Vasseaux" at all. I don't know whether it is dealing with something that Ida Vasseaux is alleged to have said.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: This document is signed.
THE PRESIDENT: I said it wasn't signed by Vasseaux.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: This document is signed Ida Vasseaux and the signatures of those who carried out the interrogatory -- the head of the department of the Lwow (?) district, Sirinowsky, and the prosecutor Nekonetov. An interrogatory was carried out on the 16th of May 1946.
THE PRESIDENT: Look at this document and see if it is the right document.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, these are excerpts from the interrogation of Eda Vasso.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that the document?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, yes, that is the same document which we are now submitting to the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that the original you have got before you?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: No, this is an excerpt from the record, certified by the Chief of Documentation of the Soviet Delegation, Colonel Karev. This is not the original protocal record of the interrogation. These are excerpts from this record.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you saying that it is a document which is admissible under Article 21 or what are you saying about it?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: We are submitting it. If the Tribunal considers that it is necessary to bring out the original of the protocol, we will be able to do so in a short time. We do not have yet the original copy of the protocol but, of course, if the Tribunal is not satisfied with these excerpts, we will very well be able to submit the entire protocol.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you tell us what the document is? Is it an affidavit, is it sworn to, is it made before an official of the Soviet Union?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: There is a note here. According to Article 89 of the Penal Code of the Ukraine -- USSR, this document is certified. This corresponds to the official demands of the Penal Code of the Soviet Union and, therefore, these conditions were carried out during the interrogation of Eda Vasso; and this is mentioned in this document.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you saying that it is a document which falls within Article 21 of the Charter?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, but If the Tribunal consider it necessary, we will be able later to submit the original copy of the record; only, I would like you to accept now these excerpts which have been certified by the documentary division.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, what is the date on which your interrogatory was allowed by the Tribunal and what was the date on which it was sent out to this person?
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, my interrogatory bears the date of the 11th of April.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: The interrogatory could not be sent in because we did not know where the witness Vasseaux was. We only found out about that recently.
THE PRESIDENT: You mean that the interrogatory has not been administered to the person who made this statement?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: This interrogation could not have reached its destination because, I repeat, we didn't know until quite recently where the witness Vasseaux was.
THE PRESIDENT: When you did find out whore the witness was, the interrogatory could have been administered.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, yes, and it can be done now if you consider it necessary.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, I should like to point out the following: This women Ida Vasseaux at the time of this affidavit, which is mentioned in the Commission Report, she was present at Lemberg then and this fact may be seen from the report. I believe it is USSR 6 but I do not recall the exact number of the document; and, now, on the 16th of May of this year, this woman Vasseaux was at Lemberg as well; therefore, the woman is not of an unknown whereabouts. She was interrogated on the 16th of May. Regarding the interrogatory which was submitted to Vasseaux, I spoke with the prosecution about the drawing up of the questionnaire. There was some question as to the questions and I was told that something was not in good order. The questions which I submitted to the High Tribunal were drawn up according to the wishes of the prosecution; therefore, this Ida Vasseaux, if the Soviet Delegation is agreeable to this, this woman can be interrogated at any time, and to appear here in the courtroom.
It is remarkable that in this later statement, this woman testifies to something entirely different from what she set forth in her previous statement and something entirely different from which she is to testify according to the interrogatory and I am of the opinion --
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute, what previous statement do you mean?
DR. SAUTER: Of the statement in the Commission Report, the statement given by the Commission in the City of Lemberg. This Commission Report was read and it says that the Hitler Youth carried out these activities with the children and my questionnaire, which you allowed me, deals with this point.
THE PRESIDENT: General, were the interrogatories submitted by Dr. Sauter shown to the witness Vasseaux?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: No, it was not even sent here. This interrogatory was not sent to the witness. May I come back to the history of this interrogation? The Soviet Prosecution submitted a review of a document, a report of the Extraordinary state Commission, Lwow (?) of the German atrocities of the Lwow district. In this document there was a statement of witness Vasseaux -- she was not interrogated then -- in which she stated that she witnessed how the Hitler Youth used as targets small children and the statement ended there. This document was accepted after that on our own initiative. Dr. Sauter's interrogatory did not come to us and we did not send it out. Ida Vasseaux was identified. We found out where she was and in addition to that which she said to the State Commission, she was interrogated in Lwow and the excerpts from her interrogation on the 16th of May are now being submitted to the Tribunal. She dwelt on certain details.
THE PRESIDENT: We all understand that, General, but the question is: Why, if interrogatories had been allowed by the Tribunal and had been seen by the prosecution and were dated sometime in April, why was the witness interrogated in May without having seen these interrogatories? This document is dated the 16th.
of May 1946, isn't it, Dr. Sauter?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter tells us that interrogatories allowed by the Tribunal were dated in April.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: I do not know to whom Dr. Sauter addressed his interrogatory. I repeat that we did not receive this interrogatory and could not send it on, for we did not have any data on Ida Vasseaux's residence. When we did find out where she lived, we carried out an interrogation and that happened on the 16th of May.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn now.
(A recess was taken until 1400 hours.)
(Hearing reconvened at 1400 hours, 27 May 1946)
THE PRESIDENT: General Alexandrov, the Tribunal will not admit --. Can you hear?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will not admit this document at the present time, but it would wish that you should present the original document and at the same time the answers to the interrogatories which the Tribunal has ordered; and the Tribunal will call upon the General Secretary for a report upon the whole matter.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Mr. President -
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: I had a chance to talk this over with Dr. Sauter, and he said that we can --.
THE PRESIDENT: I am afraid it is not coming through to the interpreter. Will you say what you said again?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Very well. I repeat that during the recess I had a chance to talk to Dr. Sauter, who gave me the interrogatory and stated that measures will be taken to get the concrete replies from the witness; also the request of the Tribunal to get the original of the document will be complied with as soon as possible.
May I continue pew with my interrogation?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV:
Q I stopped at the testimony of Gert Brunno Knittel. Here is what he relates about his service in the German Army:
"Not less than twice a week we were sent to comb the forest to catch guerillas and to look for discontent against the German regime, so that these people could be arrested and shot immediately. Our third regime had caught and shot five peasants, in the woods. Most possibly these persons were not even partisans or guerillas, but merely citizens who went into the woods for personal pleasure. But we had an order to whomever we met in the woods, and this is precisely what we did.
"One day in June, 1943, in the village of Lischaysk we surrounded the whole village and the woods around that village so that no one could leave or enter the village.
Outside each house in the village -
THE PRESIDENT: (Interposing) You are cross examining the defendant von Schirach who was in Vienna. What has this document got to do with him?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: This is the testiomny of one of the members of the Hitler Jugend regarding his participation while in service in the German Army in the occupied territory. This is the document accepted by the German defense. I do not have to read it here, but I would like Witness von Schirach to look at the document and to become acquainted with it. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV:
Q Have you got that document, witness? I am asking this of you now, Mr. Witness, Have you read that Document?
A Yes, I have read the document. This man Keitel who is testifying here was not a member of the Hitler Youth, but either of the Labor Service or a member of a unit of the armed forces. At a prior period of time in his life, just like all the other young Germans, he had been a member of the Hitler Youth. He states that here. He acted as a member of one of the armed forces, not as a member of the Hitler Youth. The entire testimony seems to be of little credibility. Among other things he mentions -
Q (Interposing) Have you read all of the testimony that is given there ? Do you admit thatmembers of the Hitler Jugend had taken part in such crimes, and that the reason for it is that the Hitler Jugend prepared them for such action and trained them to behave accordingly?
Q I have two more questions, and that will be all. Up to what time did you hold the post of being in charge of the Hitler Youth?
A. I was the head of this office since 1931 and I was Reich Governor of the City of Vienna since 1940.
Q. Up to what precise date of moment?
A. I held both of these offices until the collapse.
Q. You were telling here in detail about your quarrel with Hitler in 1943. You stated that from that time on you started being a political leader. Your quarrel or your parting of the ways with Hitler was not really a concrete quarrel, it wasn't a concrete parting of the ways; it was merely theoretical and it didn't have any serious consequences on your career?
A. That is wrong. The consequences which it had for me were set forth by me either Thursday or Friday, and I also mentioned at that time that up until the vary last moment I kept my oath which I had given to Hitler as an official and as an officer, the oath on becoming the youth leader.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: I have no more questions, Mr. President.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, in order to get along with the proceedings, I should like to put two brief questions to Defendant von Schirach. BY DR. SAUTER:
Q. The first question, Witness, in the course of the cross examination you were asked whether you had given an order to keep Vienna until the very last moment and defend the city up to the last man. As far as I remember, you answered that question in the negative, no. I am interested in knowing now what orders did you give so your subordinates during the last days of Vienna, decrees and orders which went to the deputy Gauleiter Scharizer and Blaschke. What were some of the orders they received from you?
A. The order regarding the defense of Vienna originated from Hitler. The defense of Vienna was a matter for the military; that is the Commandant of the City of Vienna was concerned here with the head of the army group who was commanding the SC Panzer Division, Sepp-Dietrich, and the leader of the Army group south.
Q. Did they give orders?
A. In carrying out the decree which Hitler had given them regarding the defense of Vienna, they defended Vienna.
Q. What orders did you, Witness, give your subordinates in this connection?
A. For the defense of Vienna I gave only such orders as related to the Volkssturm; that is dealing with the food supply to the city and similar matters with which I was charged. I personally had no concern in the defense of the City, and the works of destruction which were necessary in the course of the military defense of the City, these works of destruction are to be traced back to orders which originated with the Fuehrer's headquarters and had been transmitted to the leader of the Army group and to the City Commandant.
Q. My second question, Witness, in your cross examination you were questioned about Document 3763-PS. This is a document which concerns itself with the songs of youth and out of which songs the prosecution seems to derive a different attitude from that explained by you. Do you wish to supplement your testimony on this point?
A. Yes, I should like to add a few things.
Q. Please go ahead.
A. The prosecution accuses me with a certain song, a song which begins "We are the black swarms of Geyer, hey, ho! and want to fight tyrants, hey, ho. Spear in front at them, out the red cock on to the cloister roof", and in one of the verses: "We will lament ot Him on high, Kyrieleis, that we want to kill the priest, Kyrieleis", and this song is a Christian song.
Q. How so?
A. This can be seen in the fourth paragraph. This song is of Protestant origin under Florian Geier and the fourth paragraph reads: "Now castle, abbot and monastry are of importance, hey, ho! Nothing but the Holy Scriptures are of importance to us, hey, ho! Protestantism as well was a revolutionary creed and the peasants who revolted sang this song, and it made me an example in point to quote this song, from the 16th Century just like some of the songs originated in the French revolution. This song may be used as an example to show how revolutions are radical rather than tolerant.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, with this point I should like to conclude my direct examination of the Defendant von Schirach. Thank you very much. I have no further questions.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Who were your principal assistants in your office at Vienna?
A. First of all, the chief of my central office, Hoepken; secondly, the Regierungs President, Dr. Dellbruegge; thirdly, the Mayor, Blaschke; and fourthly, the Deputy Gauleiter Scharizer. Thses were the vitally essential collaborators.
Q. That makes four, does it?
A. Yes.
Q. And did they occupy the whole of their time working for you in your office?
A. Not all of them. The Deputy Cauleiter had already been in this function under my official predecessor, Buercker. The Mayor, Mr. Blaschke, as far as I recall, became Mayor in 1943. His predecessor was a Mr. Jung, his predecessor as Mayor. The Regierungs President Dr. Dellbruegge assumed his office in 1940; that is, after my arrival in Vienna. He was sent to me from the Reich.
Q. Well then, at the time that you took over the office in Vienna these four men were working for you, is that right?
A. Yes. I should like to mention also that the head of the central office, Hoepken, was first of all active under me as adjutant and assumed his position as Chief only when the former chief of this office, Obergebletsfuehrer Mueller, lost his life in an air attack.
Q. Which of the four was it who initialed those weekly reports which were received in your office?
A. That was the Regierungs President, Dr. Dellbruegge.
Q. And at the time that he received them he was working in your office as one of your principal assistants?
A. He was; the department in the State Administration.
Q. That was your office?
A. That was one of my offices or departments.
Q. One department in your office?
A. Yes. May I add, by way of explanation, there were various pillars, so to speak: The State administration, the Municipal Administration, The Party and the Reich Defense Commissariat. The Reich Defense Commissariat and the State Administration were connected so far as personnel were concerned, as far as their representation was concerned. Everything was brought together and centralized in the central office.
documents? Which department was he head of?
Q Civil administration?
Q was he the Deputy Reich Defense Commissioner? ber 17, were you not?
Q And he was your deputy in that military district?
Q He received and initialed those reports in that office, did he not?
THE PRESIDENT: The defendant may return to the dock.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, with your permission I should like to call to the witness box the witness Lauterbacher.
HARTMANN LAUTERBACHER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Will you state your full name?
Q Is that your full name?
Q Will you repeat this oath after me: and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down. BY DR. SAUTER:
Q Mr. Lauterbacher.
A Yes?
Q I have already discussed this matter with you in the prison; is that right? that the interpreters may keep up.
Q When were you born?
A 1909?
Q Are you married?
Q You have three children?
Q What is your profession?
Q You are in an American prison?
A I didn't quite understand. Oh--English.
Q Since when?
Q Have you been interrogated by the prosecution on this matter?
Q When did you become a paid employee of the Hitler Youth? of the lower Rhine.
Q And when was that?