Q What expression would they have used?
Q With the command of the Security Police Eastland?
A No, that doesn't even exist. A commander for Estonia or Lithuania did not exist any longer at that time.
Q At that time who was Einsatzkommando Chief II?
A I cannot say that. I believe -- what was his name again? I can't say for certain what my comrade's name was. He was assigned immediately even before my arrival.
Q And where was Einsatzkommando II?
A That was in Loknia or somewhere there. Unfortunately I do not have a map to show that.
Q Whereabouts is this? under civilian administration? of the Security Police and SD in Latvia?
A I didn't quite get that. what tasks you had as Commander of the Security Police in Latvia. and the SD to organize a new police force because no police existed there, and Stahlecker told me, "First of all, organize a police force for me." Please consider that this is not a security police. A criminal police did not exist there, I said, and it had to be organized with Latvian forces first. Any other police did not exit either. We call it State Police -- that did not exist, and all this had to be organized, and the administration and the administration police had to be organized, and the administration and the administrational police had to be organized, and then, of course, the same as in all other areas the order had been given that the Jews living there were to be liquidated.
Q When did you hear about this order for the first time?
Q Were you in Pretsch?
A No, I was not in Pretsch. I couldn't have been according to the first description of how I got there. I first heard about it from the Commander of the Security Police and SD in Lithuania whom I knew very well, and suddenly I saw him again and he had changed tremendously. I told him, "Tell me, for God's Sake, what do you look like?" and he said in reply that he was confused because of all the things he had to do out there. So I asked him, "What is the matter? What is it?" So he said, "Well, you know about the Fuehrer Order which exists, and we had to carry this out until now." Of course, it impresses one deeply and impressed me deeply, and I stayed with him during the night. Early in the morning I left for Riga and I hoped that my comrade, Rasch --not Rasch -- Batz, the one whose successor I was going to become. Batz is the name.
Q Was it Batz? or I wanted to go to Lange, who had been in Riga for some time. I knew them both very well, and, first of all, I wanted to get some information about what was going on. Now about noon Stahlecker arrived, so I reported there, and he said to me, " Well, what is the matter? What is to be done?" No, that is not true. That is wrong. It was like this: I met neither Batz nor Lange. Batz was somewhere far away in order to say "Goodbye" to his men, and I did not meet either of them, so I went to the main sector, and after a short time I met Stahlecker there. So I asked him what my tasks would be. He told me in reply what I have just described here, that I would have to organize a political and criminal police force, and that I had to deal with inner administration, that I had to take part in work concerning inner administration, and then he said to me, "Yes, we have to deal with the elimination of Jews as well."
So I said quite spontaneously, "That is crazy. Only yesterday I saw "---what is his name? "He looks terrible!" So he said, "Yes, we know that one would have to do something about it. It can't be done that way. He had to be taken away." to be carried out, and first of all I was to go to my old comrades. They would tell me about their experiences, and then about evening -- in the meantime they had heard by phone that I was there, and he said in reply -they both said they had come immediately, and they both came about the same time, and I asked them both, "Tell me, what is going on here. I saw Krueger" -- no -- "Jaeger. He looks terrible. Then I went to Badecker Salzecker and had been given the same mission by him that I would have to carry out Jewish operations, and I could not imagine what terrible tasks I had to do." So I said, "This is awful." So he said to me, "Keep calm. During the last time we have not had to carry out any anti-Jewish operations recently because Heydecker during the last time had said that the anti-Jewish action should not be carried out in Riga during that time."
Q You mean Heydrich? happened, and I talked with Batz and -- what is his name -- Lange. I talked to Lange and also Brigadefuehrer -- the Brigadefuehrer here who had received an order to cease to carry this out. Nobody knew why. Weall believed that Heydrich had had some reasons because of other countries, that the other nations might not like this, and that is why he revoked the order. actually do?
police, most of all with Latvian forces who existed there who then volunteered and said, "Here we are and we are at your disposal"; and schools already existed and I extended them.
A Oh, yes. Up there it says so in red. It says -- I think this applies to all others as well.
Q You mean the organization? office 1 and 2 were combined. They dealt with the traffic administration, food, etc. Such matters were handled by 1 and 2. And then there was Office 3. That was the intelligence office which organized to a strong degree because it is obvious that in a conquered foreign territory one has to take great interest in such matters. The political organization of the country has to be considered because if one comes into a country as victor, then --what shall I says? One has to know all about everything or else onecan't govern the other country, so I worked very hard on office 3, and then there was no criminal police in existence, so we had to organize a criminal police, and we had to deal with it because the criminal police had not been well organized and was not extensive, and so every man came to us and wanted us to give him all sorts of answers to his inquiries.
He inquired about various matters and Department IV was very busy and Department Iv was changed to office--just a minute, please, I got such a fright -- office V also worked hard on the organization of the political police and they were very busy. And the political police did not exist and, therefore, still had to be organized. Those were the main points. And owing to thelack of an order by Heydrich, we avoided having to carry our anti-Jewish actions. Last time I told the President about the Jeckeln action. Weshall talk about that later. the work of the Einsatzkommando?
Q You meant Einsatzkommando?
A No, nothing at all. They passed through occasionally at the most and they just passed and were billeted, that is all.
Q Herr Strauch, please try and concentrate again. Be calm. When you need a rest, just say so, and I shall ask the Tribunal to make a short recess and your can have it at any time.
A Yes. I don't need that at this time. work in your office and the office of the SD and the Security Police, and those of the Einsatzkommando 2, for example.
A Well, I cannot say that. I am completely unable to do so. commando? territory and the Einsatzkommando in the operational territory? tasks?
A Yes. They had to do with administrative tasks to a great extent. Braune told me that one oneoccasion they had to deal with administrative tasks a great deal. He also told me, I just can't think of it, that he was busy working on administrative tasks and that he was popular just because of his work in the administrative sphere.
Q Who are you talking about now?
Q Your Honor, may I ask for a short recess. I think my client is a little tired.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recess for 10 minutes.
(A recess was taken)
********** (The hearing reconvened at 1430 hours.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. GICK: May I continue, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDENT: Please.
EDUARD STRAUCH (Resumed) DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
BY DR. GICK:
Q Herr Strauch, how long were you actually commander in Riga?
Q Two weeks?
Q And why did you not continue in that job? it had frozen quite hard, and I got out of my car and broke my arm again up here right into the old breakage, so I went to the military hospital and they made me stay in the hospital. And now it was strange, while I was still in the hospital, I was visited by the Brigadefuehrer Stahlecker who said, "Oh, how bad this is", "Let us try to get you cured the best we can; but apart from that, I must tell you, you have been transferred to Minsk; Your successor will be Lange". He replied to me, "But in view of your accident here, we will inquire again from Berlin whether they couldn't wait quite a while, and whether you could not remain in Riga", and we received a telegram from Berlin that this was impossible, I would have to get cured finally, I could not remain in Riga, I would have to go back to the Reich in order to get cured properly, and then I would have to take over some other office. He talked to the field general after that and asked whether he could not delay the matter, but he said, "No, I can only treat him temporarily stationary, and everything will be all right". So Stahlecker said, "Yes, it is all right, we will do that". Until the 30th of March 1933 I remained in Riga, and then I received the final information that Strauch would have to go to Minsk at last.
Q Do you mean 13 March 1942, don't you, you said '33?
A No, no, '42; '32 I was already chief of the guerrilla unit. arm for the second time?
A Brigadefuehrer Stahlecker had the following intentions. He, himself was to become Higher SS Leader, either in France or one Nordic country - so northern country. He was prepared for this already, and he only lived for that idea to go there. And his deputy, Tschersky, himself, of course, attached importance to this. He was supported by Brigadefuehrer Stehlecker, and he wanted to have him transferred as Brigadefuehrer and as commander. the second time after that, a deputy was appointed as commander for you, Dr. Lange?
Q So obviously you weren't in charge of the commando any more?
A No. I was not in charge of the commando any more. I am just trying to tell you why not. And the - what is his name - said my arm was broken, yes, my arm was broken, and he insisted that I would not have to carry out this operation, but that I would assign men for this, but I only had 20 men in Riga under me, and I had been prohibited to do this by Heydrich. I had been prohibited to do this and if Heydrich says that this is prohibited this is so important that I cannot act to the contrary.
Q Herr Strauch, You are now talking about another situation. We will talk about that shortly. I am now asking you, what did you actually do? Stahlecker said, "Well, do me one favor, take over the - do not take over the commando post in Riga, but let Lange take it over, because you can't take it over anyhow, you will have to go to Minsk one day anyhow, since this has been rejected so strictly - so severely". So he insisted that for a few weeks I should carry out the work of his Department III.
Q You mean his Department III in his office as commander?
A Yes, as commander. I only had to do with the position as commander, nothing else concerned me.
Q were you put in charge of this then?
A Yes, yes. I took over this department - well, "department" is saying too much, there were only three men and two girls. I held this position - well, when I handed over the office, I was at the hospital. I was treated stationary - got stationary treatment, and I just hung around quite a while, and then I took over my position in office III. Only a few weeks could have passed.
Q Did you hold that position until you went to Minsk? do with execution of Jews?
A I was supposed to deal with them. I reported about this repeatedly last time as well. I received - how was this again - well, shortly before I left -before I, or rather when I went to Minsk, when I arrived in Minsk, Kube told me - the Gauleiter, Kube, told me he was forced. Ruthenia. I am asking you whether you had anything to do with execution of Jews in Latvia? order to carry out such executions of Jews just when I had arrived, namely, I think it was in May, he already had carried out operations and had them carried out, and when I arrived he talked to me and said that this could not be carried out in his territory, in his sphere because he needed the Jewish forces and Jewish people under all circumstances.
Q I must interrupt you. Kube was not in Latvia.
there for a very brief period of time.
THE PRESIDENT: Witness Strauch, please, what Dr. Gick asked you was whether you carried out the execution of any Jews in Latvia. You are telling us now what happened when you got to Minsk, which, of course, is important, but Dr. Gick will come to that later. He asks you now whether you carried out any executions in Latvia.
A. I keep on saying I know about operations in Latvia on orders by General Jeckeln. Yes, on orders by Jeckeln.
Q. Please describe this.
A. I shall describe this now. On 27, I believe -- I still had my plaster cast on and I said - rather two SS officers came to me and said that all available forces of the Security Police and SD in the Eastern territory - he wanted to carry out and that I had detailed some men and put them at his disposal. I explained in reply that I still was sick, and that I was unable to work because of this and that I was not even present because my arm was still in plaster cast and he swore terribly - the two young men, or rather the two young officers - left and secondly called up and somebody swore terribly on the telephone and then in time he explained that he was Jeckeln and that he was Himmler's deputy and he demanded that I carry out his orders. So I said I was unable to do this because it was my duty first of all to hand all my orders to my superior through teletype messages and that I would, therefore, write to Heydrich, Mueller - Gruppenfuehrer Mueller and to my superior Stahlecker and I would get a definite order from him. so I waited, I think until the 27 or 28, and I thoutht, "Well, if you don't like it, I still had received no information - if you still aren't ready to do this I won't do it either." So, I got in my car and drove home to my wife, and as my wife will say, will testify, in some book or other --
THE PRESIDENT: Where was your wife, witness?
Where was your wife? You say you drove home to her, where was she?
A. I think - I know there was a definite reason. By Dr. GICK:
Q. The President is asking you where your wife was.
A. I was just saying my wife had some particular reason which she will give, but I don't know what it is. I have to look at some book or other.
Q. Please answer the question where you found your wife at the time.
A. She was in - as far as I know - Berlin. No, in Essen. In Essen with my mother.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, witness, you were telling us in a very intelligent manner just what happened when Jeckeln instructed you to carry out this execution. You said that you objected and that you would communicate with Heydrich. Did you write to Heydrich?
A. I didn't get the translation- didn't understand it, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: You told us that you refused to carry out Jeckeln's orders and that you would write to Heydrich, Mueller, and Stahlecker in order to be informed more precisely on your duties, Did you write to any of these men? Heydrich, Mueller, or Stahlecker.
A. Your Honor, this must have been some political affair. I just said that I did not know why this order was given but I was quite certain I fully understood that Heydrich issued such an order. He had his political reason for this. You can ask any of my comrades whether they would have acted in the same manner in a position like mine, namely that they would have obeyed Heydrich rather than that of Jackeln.
THE PRESIDENT: Well did you communicate with Heydrich to find our whether you were required to obey Jeckln's order?
A. Just a moment, I am not keeping up.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you communicate with Heydrich to find out-
A. I am not getting the German. Your Honor, I keep getting the English,
THE PRESIDENT: Well I hope we don't have that trouble in addition to all our other troubles.
Will you check? Is he getting the German? icated with Heydrich to find out whether you were required to comply with Jeckeln's order?
A. I don't quite get that.
THE PRESIDENT: You told us - yes - you said that Jeckeln gave you an order and you believe that you were not required to comply with that order and so you communicated with Heydrich. Did Heydrich reply to your complaint?
A. Not at all, Your Honor. Neither Heydrich replied not did Brigadefuehrer Stahlecker answer, not did Gruppenfuehrer Mueller. I thought I understood it that way. In any case I left because of this. I was asked - I was allowed to do this. And then I said I will just go home then as well. If someone had to be responsible Obergruppenfuehrer Heydrich or at least Gruppenfuehrer Stahlecker will be responsible but if they just keep quiet and I have no reason to pass the responsibility.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, did you comply with Jeckel's order?
A. No, I left and I said if neither Heydrich nor Mueller nor Stahlecker want to carry out the order, obviously at least they would have replied to me. If they don't want to carry out the order and it is obviously an order to avoid the whole matter from a political point of view and I would try to get away with it. One could know, Your Honor, I would like to say that now, one did not know how Heydrich would react to this matter so they just kept quiet. one was hunting, and the other was somewhere else. I don't know where and I did not think that I alone would have to carry out this and I did not carry it out because I knew that if the matter was wrong with Heydrich that it will be bad for me.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, all right. How you tell us that you did not obey this order or Jeckel. What did you do after that?
A. Well, until the 10th I believe -
THE PRESIDENT: 10th of what?
A. The 10th -- what was it again? The 10th of February 10th of February. That is, after my arrival I remained in Konigsberg with my wife.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, after the Jeckel action did you leave? Dr. Gick you carry on, please. Why don't you, Dr. Gick, take up each document in which he is referred to and endeavour to have him give an explanation of the particular charge in that document?
DR. GICK: Your Honor, I intent to discuss the individual documents with my client. I am just about to talk about the Jeckel document. First of all, Herr Strauch, your wife was not in Essen as you said but in Konigsberg.
A. Yes, I beg your pardon, Your Honor. I really don't know any more whether she was in Essenor Konigsberg. She wrote one day --- I beg your pardon.
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed.
A. She wrote to me the other day that at the time she was in Berlin - I don't know whether it was during that period but I really can not say when my wife, when she was where.
Q. But you traveled to Konigsberg?
A. Yes.
BY DR. GICK:
Q was Dr. Lange, your representative and was he not present at Riga at the time?
AAt what time?
Q At the time the Jeckeln matter came up? because else they would not have turned to me. With my bad arm I was chief of office 3 - in fact I was sich with my arm my arm was in a plaster cast and then 2 SS officers -
Q Yes, we have heard that, Herr Strauch. Were you alone when the Higher SS leaders were present at the time? and I said, I an not allowed to do this, please explain the following secution, German page 61, Exhibit 42, document 3405. I new submit the following to you. I have just heard, it is on page 57 in the English. It is explained here that on the 30 November 1941, that is the day of the Jeckeln operation -- about 600 Jews were shot at Riga; that this operation was carried out under the direction of Higher SS and Police leader, that is Jeckeln, and that Einsatzkommando II took part in this with a ratio of 1 to 20 men.
A It says there "I took part in it with 20 men?" I don't know how this was ever put in. It must have been reported but because it does contain 6 to 8 figure which are contained in the Indictment, it doesn't improve matters. Something must be wrong somewhere. the Kommando, let us say? because we could not ever detail 20 men, not even for guard duties. I am of the opinion that in Latvia there was a figure for Einsatzkommando II School -- by Einsatzkommando II school where people were trained, not for me, not for the Kommando but for the Einsatzkommando and they were trained and they were in barracks.
Well, they were trained eventually and I can only imagine that People from this Einsatzkommando school were utilized for this job, but in my absence, the chief of the Eisantzkommando who had returned in the meantime on one of the visits of the SD might have given this order. My people or the chief of the Security Police and SD could hardly have participated in this and I did not either, because as I have said -- "If you don't want to do this I don't want to either." say that if 1 to 20 is mentioned from Einsatzkommando II, this could only concern the school which was the remainder of the Einsatzkommando found in the front in Riga. best people came from Riga, replacements all the time. On one or three occasions they carried out anti-partisan actions.
Q Did you have anything to do with this school?
Q Was it under your charge?
A No. Later on, it was under the charge of Einsatzkommando II Which wasin the front territory, and later on it was under the charge of Einsatzgruppe B. I believe Einsatzgruppe B or something like that and they carried on the training.
Q Let us now talk about your work in white Ruthenia. How long were you chief of Office 3 in Riga?
Q Until when?
THE PRESIDENT: The 30th of what?
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, do you hear me or rather the translation?
A I can't hear very well. Although what you know I told you only yesterday..... BY DR. GICK:
Q When did you come to Minsk?
A In 1900, no, just a moment please. 1941, 1943 on the 30th of the 30th, I came to Minsk. 30th, but the 30th of which month, please.
Q Was it January?
Q February?
Q What year please?
A 1943. Just a moment. I will think about it. Please ask the President and tell him that it is very difficult for me to think of these dates. It is always very difficult for me. May I have the question again please.
Q I am asking you when you started in your office in Minsk?
A Oh, we found that out no. That was the 30th of the 30th of 1900.
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, will you please look in my direction?
Do you understand what you are charge with in this trial?
THE PRESIDENT: Do you realize that this is the one day that you will have in your life to make an explanation as to those charges?
A I believe so. I believe you. I told the Prosecutor yesterday that I would try my best and he told me I could do it and I have the impression that I could do it. Only I have difficulties in thinking of dates.
BY DR. GICK:
Q Was it in March, Herr Strauch? We just wanted to know the year. Now please think carefully whether you can't remember the year.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, witness. Now we will help you. You went to Minsk in February 1942, to White Ruthenia, is that correct?
THE PRESIDENT: We are telling you in 1942 - is that correct?
A No, it is not correct, I am.....in 1900........
THE PRESIDENT: Well tell us then what is correct?
A Please your Honor, I haven't thought about it whether -- yes, I must have come there in 1942, because in 1943 I already went to the chief of partisan warfare.
THE PRESIDENT:Yes, well, then you were in Riga up until February 1942 and then you went to White Ruthenia. Now, is that right -if so, just say yes.
THE PRESIDENT: No, please don't. All we want to know now is whether you left Riga and went to White Ruthenia in February 1942.
THE PRESIDENT: Now we are talking about February 1942. Now listen, witness. You don't need to ramble the way you are. You understand the questions. Now why are you giving us this performance? You went to Riga first and then you went to White Ruthenia, that's correct, isn't it?
THE PRESIDENT: All right. Now what we are going to do is to give you a little rest. We will recess court now. During this recess I want you to think over these events a little and then when you are brought back into the court we would like you very much to give us your story. You are charged with very serious crimes and this your one chance.
We can go on without your saying a word. It is up to you. We would prefer that you tell us your story but if you don't want to tell us and if you want to tell us about China and other places, then there is nothing we can do and we will just dispose of the case as if you said nothing. You understand that?
A No, I don't know the legal expression.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you see every defendant has the right to come into court and deny the terrible things said about him, and this is the day that you have to tell your story. Is that clear?
THE PRESIDENT: All right, now we will give you a little rest, a little recess, and then we will take it up again. The Tribunal will be in recess 15 minutes.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed, Dr. Gick.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. GICK: once more. Please tell us when you arrived in Minisk. visited my brother who was in the hospital in Latvia as a physician. I visited him and he said, "Well, how about trying to call up father and congratulate him?" In normal times this was absolutely possible, but we didn't succeed, and on the 22nd I left and on the 23rd I arrived in Riga. a birthday on the 21st of March? him but we couldn't do it.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, just a moment. Now Dr. Gick, when he gets on the subject of his father's birthday, don't encourage him, because we are not interested in his father's birthday. He is on his way to Minsk. Now, find out what he did in Minsk and stick to it if you can.
DR. GICK: Your Honor, I only mentioned this as a means of refreshing his memory when he got to Minsk, otherwise the birthday, of course, does not interest us.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. Then we know now his father's birthday was on March 21st.