THE PRESIDENT: Well, if there is anything in the affidavit which needs to be met or to be refuted, you will have a chance to do that, Dr. Haensel.
DR. HAENSEL: Then, with regard to the question of the probative value of the publication which has been submitted now, I would like to call an expert witness, and I suggest that Fritsche could be examined here for about half an hour. It would take only a very little time.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you propose to have him testify to?
DR. HAENSEL: He is to testify that the publication, "The Sub-Human Being", which has been introduced here was a work which was not distributed at all. The agency which issued it intended it to be used as propaganda literature, but it did not have any effect whatsoever.
THE PRESIDENT: You say it didn't have any effect. You mean it was not distributed?
DR. HAENSEL: The attempt was made to distribute it, but these things met such a general resistance that this was not possible.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if we have time, Dr. Haensel, you may offer that proof.
DR. PRIBILLA: Your Honor, I have understood that the Prosecution intends to submit five or six document books during the coming week. I hope that no special surprises will be contained anymore in these document books, but I would suggest that the defense should also be given an opportunity to refute these affidavits briefly in some form or other.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, how do you know that you want to refute them? You don't know what they say?
MR. ROBBINS: May it please the Tribunal, I think Dr. Pribilla probably does, because they were distributed yesterday morning.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, all right.
MR. ROBBINS: I don't think there are any surprises.
THE PRESIDENT: These two points I want to make: First, there must be no delay, no time lost when we have nothing to do. This program from now on must be continuous. Second, we are fixing a terminus for it, not to the exact minute, but we want all proof concluded, preferably by Thursday of next week, certainly not later than Friday, and if things begin to drag, be prepared to spend some evenings in the courthouse. The next week will be the last week of the evidence, be it night or day.
The next three minutes will be the last three minutes that we'll llse. We'll take the next three minutes, however, and adjourn until Tuesday morning at 9:30.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess until 0930 hours, September 2.
(Whereupon, at 1630 hours, 29 August 1947, the Tribunal recessed until 0930 hours, 2 September 1947.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal II in the Matter of the United. States of America against Oswald Pohl, et al, defendants sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 2 September 1947, 0930-1630 hours, Justice Roms presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II.
Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
MR. ROBBINS: May it please the Tribunal, I should like to offer some rebuttal documents at this time, if it is convenient with the Tribunal and Defense Counsel.
Will the Secretary General give me the next exhibit number?
THE SECRETARY GENERAL: 640.
MR. ROBBINS: I should like to offer the documents in Book 27 at this time. It concerns the construction of the WVHA and contains a number of blueprints.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: That is the only one we have now, that you have given us?
MR. ROBBINS: That is correct, Your Honor, I am about to give you some more. These have already been distributed.
I believe that Document Book 26 has been distributed in German to the Defense Counsel, and it contains a number of exhibits which were marked for identification. At this time I should like to give Book 26 in English to the Tribunal. At this time I should like to offer in evidence the documents in Book 26, which contains exhibits 620 through 634.
I think that there was a question about the fourth document in the book, which was Himmler's address on the day of Metz. At the recess I will bring the original document here and show it to Defense Counsel. It is a book of Himmler's speeches and contains a good many of the notations and writings of Himmler in his own handwriting, which, I believe, will authenticate that document.
In Document Book 27, which concerns itself with construction matters and contains a number of blueprints, I should first like to offer the first document in that book, NO 4343 as Prosecution Exhibit 640. It is dated 1937, in October, and is signed by the defendant Pohl and is offered to show that Pohl's organization at that early date dealt with construction matters in the concentration camps. It deals with the construction of a tailor workshop at the concentration camp Buchenwald. He is arranging for the grafting of funds for building the workshop at Buchenwald.
DR. VON STEIN (Counsel for Defendant Eirenschmalz): Your Honor, I want to object to the admission of this document for the following reason: This document was described only as an unofficial copy. This is only a draft, and whether this draft was ever sent out cannot become evident from this document. I therefore do not consider this document to have any probitive value.
THE PRESIDENT: Which document are you talking about, Dr. Von Stein?
DR. VON STEIN: This is the first document in Document Book No. 27, Document 4343. I request, Your Honor, that the original copy of this document should be produced so that we can see that there is actually an original of this document in existence which was sent out. Above all, we want to know who dealt with this matter, with this draft.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you want to see the original?
DR. VON STEIN: Your Honor, it cannot be seen from this draft whether the letter itself developed from this particular draft. It is only signed here by Pohl, with his initials. There is another initial here, but it cannot be seen whose it is. In the form that this document is presented now, I do not consider it to have any probitive value, because it is just a draft.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it is more than a draft because it contains an initial and a note in handwriting. The only question is whether it is Pohl's initial and his handwriting.
MR. ROBBINS: I think the important point here, if the Tribunal please, is not whether this draft was ever sent out, although it appears that it was approved by Pohl, but, rather, that the document shows that at that early date Pohl was concerned with construction matters in the concentration camps.
THE PRESIDENT: It isn't valuable as a communication to somebody else, but merely as a statement by the defendant Pohl himself as to the scope of his authority?
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you dispute the initial, Dr. von Stein the letter "P" at the bottom of the letter?
DR. VON STEIN: Your Honor, after all, I have only one interest in this document. I want to see whether my client, Eirenschmalz, has anything to do with it, and I assume from this draft that the other file note apparently stands for an "S" and not for my client. I am not interested in any other way in the presentation of this document.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you don't claim that this is binding on Eirenschmalz, Mr. Robbins, do you?
MR. ROBBINS: I don't claim that the initial is that of Eirenschmalz A subsequent document in this book states, over Pohl's signature, that Eirenschmalz was in charge of construction at this time. However, I do not claim that he ever saw this particular document.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, with that statement the document will he admitted.
DR. VON STEIN: Very well, Your Honor.
MR. ROBBINS: I next offer the second document in the book, No. 4444 which according to the legend on the document, is a building plan for the concentration camp Buchenwald. The writing down at the lower right hand corner reads, "Regarding KL Buchenwald", and below that, "double crematoria oven." The diagram in the upper left hand corner is a cross section, and in the second of the diagrams is a longitudinal section, and in the upper right hand corner a diagram of a coal burner.
The diagram in the lower left hand corner is the view of the crematoria from above-from below.
THE PRESIDENT: From above, it is the view from above--a bird's eye view, not a worm's eve view.
MR. ROBBINS: This will be Prosecution Exhibit 641.
The next document, 4445, I offer as Prosecution Exhibit 642. This is a blueprint of the crematorium at concentration camp Buchenwald and it is Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, and is drawn up by the VerwaltungsamtSS. We have not been able to make out the signature. It is an SS Sturmfuehrer. It is under the legend, "Verwaltungsamt-SS, Construction Office."
THE PRESIDENT: This is before the WVHA, of course?
MR. ROBBINS: That is correct, Your Honor. The defendant Pohl was the Chief of the Verwaltungsamt-SS at this time, and, as a later document will show, the defendant Eirenschmalz was in charge of V-5, the Construction Office, at this time.
I, next offer No. 4446 as Prosecution Exhibit 643. This is also a plan of the crematoria at the concentration camp Buchenwald.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there anything to indicate where this plan was drawn up or found, to connect it with the SS Building Office?
MR. ROBBIN'S: The subsequent documents letters, I believe do that, Your Honor.
I next offer the letter which is No 4353 as Prosecution Exhibit 644. This is a letter from Riedel of the Verwaltungsamt-SS, Construction Office, addressed to Eicke, at that time Inspectorate. The subject is approval for material to build the crematorium for Buchenwald concentration camp, and he is requesting approval for construction funds. He states that plans and estimates are included in the letter.
Still a part of that document is a letter from Eicke to the Chief of the Verwaltungsamt-SS, who is Pohl, dated 21 June 1938, and Eicke says, "I request approval for construction of a crematorium for the Buchenwald concentration camp.
With the increased strength, there are death cases almost daily, which must he taken care of by the city crematorium in Weimar at state expense. In order to save the Reich money and also for political reasons, I request you to approve this requisition."
THE PRESIDENT: What are you reading from? I don't follow you.
MR. ROBBINS: That is at the bottom of the Document 4353, letter from Eicke to Pohl.
I next offer 4364 as Prosecution Exhibit 645. This is still dealing with construction matters at Buchenwald, and Riedel writes to the Chief of the Verwaltungsamt-SS, who is Pohl, requesting authorization for building material for the erection of five temporary prisoner barracks at Buchenwald concentration camp. He says that; "Four thousand prisoners will arrive within the next few days."
THE PRESIDENT: Tell me again who Riedel was.
MR. ROBBINS: As it shows above his signature, he was an officer in the Verwaltungsamt-SS, in the Construction Office.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, he was attached to Buchenwald, wasn't he? He wasn't in the Main Office?
MR. ROBBINS: The witness Karl testified that he was in charge of the construction at Buchenwald, and he was attached or subordinated to the Main Office.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, he was one of the construction men that were assigned to the various camps, as shown by a document?
MR. ROBBINS: That is correct.
THE PRESIDENT: But he was still an officer of the Central Building Office?
MR. ROBBINS: That is correct, as his signature shows.
It is interesting--although this is no evidence--that the only large scale program that occurred between the date of this letter and some subsequent time was the Jewish pogrom on 11 November 1938, and again this is no evidence, but Mr. Ponger, who was then an inmate at Buchenwald at this time, says that these buildings, barracks, were used for the inmates, Jews, who were herded into the concentration camp in the Jewish pogrom of November 1938.
DR. SEIDL: (Counsel for Defendant Pohl): Your Honor, if the Prosecution intends to prove anything about this, they through Panzer should call Panzer into the witness stand. I object, however, to the document being used in the way it has been so far by the Prosecution--to the way they try to make use of them.
MR. ROBBINS: The purpose for which it was used, I think, has no bearing, and I will withdraw the remark.
The next document shows that it was to be used as an inmate barrack in Buchenwald.
The subsequent document, 4365, I shall offer as Prosecution Exhibit 646. It is signed by Riedel and contains an estimate for the erection of the five inmate barracks at Buchenwald.
THE PRESIDENT: Document 4366--is that the one you are talking about?
MR. ROBBINS: 4365, Your Honor, Prosecution Exhibit 46.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you didn't comment on 4366, the teletype letter.
MR. ROBBINS: I haven't come to that, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, very well.
MR. ROBBINS: The next document, 4366, deals with the same matter. I offer as Prosecution Exhibit 647. This is a teletype from the defendant Frank to the Construction Division of Buchenwald, and he says that the amount of RM 12,000 for the erection of emergency barracks has been authorized. Also a part of that document is -- I believe that the last part of this document is just a repetition of the first part.
The next document is also signed by the defendant Frank and deals with the same subject matter. That is NO 4780, which I offer as Prosecution Exhibit 648. It is file memorandum, stating that Buchenwald will receive an additional number of about 6,000 prisoners and that the sum of RM 12,000 has been made available.
The next document --
DR. FRITSCH-(For defendant Baier): Your Honor, in the document which has just been read, the name of Baier is mentioned. May I ask Mr. Robbins whether he identifies the defendant Baier with this?
MR. ROBBINS: I am sure this is not the defendant Baier. Where is that name? There was a Baier at Buchenwald. Baier also signed this document. It does not appear on the English copy. Only Frank's signature appears on the English copy, but it is not the defendant Baier.
The next document, NO 4400 I offer as Prosecution Exhibit 649. This also deals with Buchenwald concentration camp and is from Grimm, who was in the Construction Management Office at Buchenwald under the Main Office, Budget and Building. This deals with the immediate precursor of the WVHA. The preceding documents have dealt with the Verwaltungsamt-SS, and this document deals with the Main Office, Budget and Building, which immediately preceded the WVHA.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: That was '40 and '41, was it not?
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, your honor, until some time in 1939, until the WVHA was established in 1942. This letter deals with an emergency crematorium and is addressed to the Main Office, Budget and Building, attention of SS-Haupsturmfuehrer Riedel.
The next document, 4401, I offer as Prosecution Exhibit 650. This is also signed by Grimm and is a building description of the crematorium at Buchenwald, referred to in the previous document. He states that "As a result of the high mortality rate in Buchenwald, it has become necessary to erect emergency crematorium." The last sentence in the document reads, "The construction is in response to the order of the Chief of the Main Office, Budget and Building, of 9 and 11 December, 1939." The Chief of that office is, of course, the defendant Pohl.
the defendant Pohl.
The next document, 4344, deals with another concentration camp, Gross Rosen. I offer it as Prosecution Exhibit 651. It is from the year 1941. It is signed by Heffer, who, as the document shows, was subordinate to the Main Office, Budget and Building, and is addressed to the Main Office, Budget and Building. It is dealing with the erection of a delousing plant at the concentration camp Gross Rosen.
The following document expands on that building program at Gross Rosen. It is 4345, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 652. There is a mistake in the translation of this document in the first paragraph. It refers to the construction of two delcusing chanbers and not to two extermination chanbers, as the translation reads. The translation should be "two extermination chanbers. " These documents are offered to show that the Main Office, Budget and Building,was concerned with buildings matters in the concentration camps at this time.
It is not contended that this particular chamber, which was only ten cubic meters each was in fact an extermination camber.
The next document deals with the same subject matter. It is 4346, and will be prosecution exhibit 653. It is from Heffner of the Main Office, Budget and Building, to the private firm of Feschen-Stebener, which was charged with building the delousing installation.
The last document dealing with Gross-Rosen is 4347 and will be prosecution Exhibit 654, also dealing with the construction of the delousing installation.
THE PRESIDENT: Who wrote this letter, do you know? Chief of Office II?
MR. ROBBINS: I will have to consult with someone who is more familiar with this signature.
THE PRESIDENT: Can you say offhand who was Chief of Office II?
MR. ROBBINS: I am afraid I can't . . .
THE PRESIDENT: Well, all right.
MR. ROBBINS: .... at this date. I left that basic chart in my office.
THE PRESIDENT: All right, don't bother.
MR. ROBBINS: The next document 4464 will be prosecution Exhibit 655, and is a letter signed by the defendant Pohl, dealing with the Budget for construction for the Concentration Camp Auschwitz. On the second page, under item number 10, he refers to a crematorium in the prisoner of war camp, and the first paragraph says,"I herewith approve the building program for Concentration Camp Auschwitz as follows."
The next document also deals with Auschwitz. It is 4472 which will be prosecution Exhibit 656. It is signed by Bischof who was in charge of construction at Auschwitz and is addressed to Amtsgruppe C, and to the Chief of Office III in Amtsgruppe C; and it refers to the prisoner of war camp in Auschwitz and the erection of a three-muffle crematorium furnace.
JUDGE PHILIPS: This is after the WVHA?
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, this deals with the WVHA period.
THE PRESIDENT: Who was chief of C-III.
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, Wirtz (spelling) W-i-r-t-z.
The next document also deals with Auschwitz. That is 4461 and will be prosecution Exhibit 657. There is a mistake in the typing in this document. It is signed by Bischof again, and the initials are "B.I.", not "K.I.", and the subject is Concentration Camp Auschwitz crematorium.
The same matter is dealt with in the following document 4462 which will be Exhibit 658. Again the initials are "B.I." for Bischof. And this letter very significantly is addressed to the DAW which is one of the SS industries and shows that the DAW was designing and constructing certain parts of the crematorium. It states: "The office ..." that is the Chief of the Central Construction Office ..."approves the design and construction on the condition that the door frame measurements of which are not marked on the plan be made of wood," and so forth. It refers to parts for the crematorium 1 at Auschwitz.
The next document is also addressed to the DAW. It is 4466 and will be prosecution Exhibit 659. It is also designed by Bischof and refers to several construction matters that are being carried out at Auschwitz. Under No. 4 a laundry building with reception delousing and bath for prisoners.
Under No. 8 crematoria 1 and 2 for the prisoner of war camp. Under No. 9 crematoria 3 and 4 for the prisoner of war camp. It says, "In the first place, delivery without delay is requested for the doors for crematorium 1 in the prisoner of war camp which is urgently needed for the execution of special measures."
THE PRESIDENT: This is signed by Bischof?
MR. ROBBINS: This is signed by Bischof. The next letter is also from Bischof to the DAW. It is 4465 and will be prosecution Exhibit 660. It refers to the construction of three gas-light chambers or towers, and in the second paragraph it states, "We would remind you of a further order of 6 March '43 concerning the supply of a gas door for the corpse cellar 1." I have had the translation checked, and this is an accurate translation, "Corpse cellar 1 of crematorium 3." And it refers to a peep hole in the crematorium of couble 8 mm glass and so forth. This is also signed by Bischof, the initials "B.I." The last document -
THE PRESIDENT: (Interrupting) Mr. Robbins.
MR. ROBBINS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Can it be shown that Bischof was a subordinate in the WVHA?
MR. ROBBINS: I believe that the document shows that, Your Honor, that he was subordinate to Amtsgruppe C. I will find that specific reference and include it in the brief.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, there is a document where the building construction personnel was split up and allocated to the concentration camps.
MR. ROBBINS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you know whether he was one of those who went by reason of that allocation, that assignment?
MR. ROBBINS: I can't say that at the moment, Your Honor. I will determine that.
THE PRESIDENT: That might be significant.
MR. ROBBINS: The next document is from Bischof to the Chief of Amtsgruppe C, Kammler. This is a very significant document, I believe. It is 4473 and will be prosecution Exhibit 661. This is one of the few documents in which the term "gas chamber" is referred to in so many words. That is almost at the end of the first paragraph, they are talking about the construction of a gas chamber. It is also significant that this document is not classified in anyway. It is nor marked "Secret".
The next document also deals with the Concentration Camp Auschwitz. It is a blue print of a sick-bay or sick building for the Concentration Camp Auschwitz, and it is signed by the defendant Kiefer. The Tribunal will recall that Kiefer testified that he never made any diagrams whatever in connection with concentration camps. The legend on the lower lefthand corner is Construction Office -- isn't it -Main Office C-II (dash) 3. This is No. 4470 and will be prosecution Exhibit 662. Oh, this as the legend states is a sick building for Haeftlinge, for inmates.
The second -- or the next document is also signed by the defendant Kiefer.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, just a minute.
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, sir.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you recognize the signature of the Untersturmfuehrer in the left-hand corner?
MR. ROBBINS: No, I am afraid that I don't.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
MR. ROBBINS: The following document, NO-4471, will be prosecution Exhibit 663. This is also a blue print of a building at Concentration Camp Buchenwald, signed by Kiefer. This is a -
THE PRESIDENT: Auschwitz?
MR. ROBBINS: I am sorry, Auschwitz. This is a sick-bay for the troops. The next document 3985 will be prosecution Exhibit 664. This is a recommendation for promotions signed by the defendant Pohl. It is to the SS-Hauptamt, Personnel Office, and it states that; "Eirenschmalz, at present chief of the Main Division within the Staff of the SS Main Office, Verwaltungsamt-SS, V-5, Construction Department." And on the second page, it says that "Eirenschmalz enlarged the Main Department, V-5, Construction Department, from the very first into a very notable and efficient department." The 1st sentence, it says that he is the owner of the "Blood Medal" which was awarded for those SS-men who took part in the Munich Putsch.
The Tribunal will recall that the defendant Eirenschmalz testified that he couldn't even remember that there was a department V-5.
I think I shall not offer the subsequent document, 3984, an order signed by Hitler bestowing a badge on Eirenschmalz. I don't believe it has any particular significance. I think the reference, however, in the previous document to the "Blood Badge" does have some significance, particularly in light of Eirenschmalz's testimony that he at no time participated in any political activity.
The next set of documents concerns the construction of Barrack X at Dachau. Those are all blue prints of Barrack X, and I think I shall just offer these all as one Exhibit. They have separate NO numbers. That is NO-3884 through 3890, and I will offer these blue prints as Exhibit 665.
THE PRESIDENT: What are those document numbers again?
MR. ROBBINS:NO-3884 through 3890 inclusive. The Tribunal will see that the first blue print 3884 is signed by the Chief of Amt C-1. I don't believe this is the signature of Sesemann there was predecessor of Sesemann in 1942.
The documents somewhere show what his name was. At any rate, this he has signed as the Chief of C-I. As a matter of fact, I see that it is signed "i.V." which would mean that the deputy of the Chief of C-I signed the blue print.
The second document contains the stamp of Office C-III (slash) 3. It is almost cut off of my copy.
THE PRESIDENT: That notation is put on there by the contractor, isn't it?
MR. ROBBINS: The stamp, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, the C-III stamp.
MR. ROBBINS: The translation reads: "Approved and looked over by Amtsgruppe C-III.
THE PRESIDENT: Thiele, is that it?
MR. ROBBINS: T-h-i-e-d-e? T-h-i-e-l-e. Thiele.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, all right.
MR. ROBBINS: The next document also contains the stamp of C-I, and the subsequent correspondence refers to the construction of Barrack X. The first letter 3859 will be Exhibit 666. This is a letter from Lenzer who was Chief of Office C-V. This is the Central Construction Office at Dachau. 3859 will be Exhibit 666, a letter from Lenzer C-V, dated the 9th of May 1942, and he says, "I give the order for the construction of an X-Hut in the Dachau Concentration Camp."
The subsequent letter is also signed by Lenzer under the legent the Chief of Office C-V. It is 3860 and will be prosecution Exhibit 667, also dealing with the construction of the X-Hut. The last sentence in the letter states, "The necessary prisoners will be assigned through Office C-V by the Chief of Office D-II, Oranienburg."
The next letter, 3863 will be Exhibit 668. I can't make out the signature on this. It is on the letterhead of the Central Construction Office of the Waffen-SS, Munich, Dachau, and it also deals with the construction of Building X.The following letter is another draft.
The first letter was a draft of the 17th of March 1942. The next one is a draft of the 23rd of May 1942, dealing with the same matter.
THE PRESIDENT: The 23rd of April, isn't it?
MR. ROBBINS: My copy says the 23rd of May. That is 3862, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. ROBBINS: Oh, I see. There are two dates there. One says, "Drafted the 23rd of April 1942," and over on the other side of the page it says, "Checked Berlin, 23 May 1942." This is 3862 and will be Exhibit 669.
The last document in this book contains the preliminary cost estimate of the Building X at Dachau. This will be 3864 and is Exhibit 370. The last item in the cost estimate is reduction of expenses through employment of inmate labor.
I should next like to offer the documents in Book XXVIII. The first document is NO-4535, which will be Exhibit 671. It is a page from the Trade Register of OSTI and shows that the defendant Volk was a member of the Board of Directors, the proposition which he denied on the stand.
DR. GAWLIK (Attorney for the defendants Volk and Bobermin): Your Honor, I would like to take a look at the original of this document.
MR. ROBBINS: I have just handed the defense counsel the entire Trade Registry for the OSTI.
I should like to point out that the defendant Volk testified on page 5100 of the record that no member of the Staff W was on the Board of Directors and at page 5198 he testified that he did not hold a managerial position in any company that used inmate labor, and at page 5199 he was asked, "In what companies were you on the Board of Directors?" and he said, "I was not a member of any of the Boards of Directors."
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, I object to these statements. They belong to the pleadings and I request that they be stricken from the record.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you mean? Do you mean they belong in the argument, in the closing argument?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, there is no objection to calling our attention to a portion of the record which is connected with this document. That is not argument. It is just so we will be able to relate this document to the testimony in reviewing it.