Q You knew from your position that Klein was Chief of W-VIII, did you not?
A Yes.
Q Did Klein hold any position in any other industry in the SS, either as manager, prokurist, or any position?
A Yes. However, that was at an earlier time. He was Prokurist in some enterprises, but I don't know which ones. At my time he had already been released, or he was replaced a little later. It is possible that for instance the Sudetenquell may be part of the enterprises. However, Mr. Klein will be able to tell you that in more detail.
Q Can you tell us what influence Georg Loerner exercised on the industries in Amtsgruppe W as Deputy Chief of the Office and as the manager of the DWB? First, will you tell us what his legal position was, what influence he could exercise?
A The legal position of Loerner was that he was the second business manager of the DWB. By virtue of his status, according to commercial law, he could have occupied himself to a very extent, and he could have applied his influence to the affiliated companies of the DWB. As a result of the fact that he was the subordinate of Pohl, he was unable to do that because Pohl had reserved the right to himself exclusively to deal with this branch. I can not recall any incident wherein Loerner would ever have personally exercised his influence on any affiliated company. It is possible that he accompanied Pohl on some trip or other. However, I don't know that. In the holding company DWB he was consulted in several cases, when, for example, a now foundation was discussed, or something of that nature.
Q You don't mean to say that Pohl took care of every detail of the operation of these hundreds of plants?
A No, to the contrary. The state of affairs was the following: The actual managers of the works were really themselves the firm group leaders. Pohl could interfere on the basis of some official order which he had issued before the DWB was established. The firm group leaders -
the Firmengruppenleiters -- reported to him whenever, for example, purchases were made exceeding RM 50,000. Furthermore, Pohl went into the plants, and he just issued orders there. For example, he told them that this was to be done in such and such a way, that such and such a machine had to be purchased, that such and such a machine was unnecessary, and so on. That is to say, he interfered to a very great extent, and Pohl did all this himself in the affiliated companies. However, in any other way they administered themselves.
Q You said yesterday that as far as you knew, Volk was never an office or chief of Staff W. Is that correct?
A I have seen a letter here where Volk calls himself an office chief. However, I don't think that we can take this letter too seriously. After all, Volk was never appointed. He certainly was not given any document to that effect, and I am convinced that if any appointment was made, it cannot have been cancelled again.
Q Prior to 1944, you never saw Volk referred to as chief of office or as chief of Staff W in any papers in your office?
A Could you repeat this question please?
Q Prior to 1944, you never saw on any of the papers in your office that Volk was referred to as chief of an office or chief of Staff W?
A Mr. Robbins, I did not have any opportunity to see that because I was not there. However, I consider it impossible.
Q Prior to 1944.
A I didn't see it. Mr. Robbins, I left and, I believe two months later, Baier became chief of W, and in the meantime they had a vacancy and I was not there. Nobody occupied that position. I was not there, and consequently I do not have any information about it.
THE PRESIDENT: I don't think the witness understands the word "prior". Any time before 1944.
Q Let us say any time before July 1944. You left in June -- '43, rather. Any time before 30 June 1943.
A Neither before 30 June 1943 nor afterwards. Afterwards I was unable to see it anyway, but I did not have any knowledge of it before either.
Q And you say that Baier later became chief of Staff W?
A Yes, I have seen that here in the documents. I know that as a result of several visits which I paid later on to Dr. Wenner or to my former secretary, who later on was taken over by Pohl.
Q And it is your contention, is it, that prior to his appointment as chief of Staff W, there was no chief of Staff W?
A That is my claim. That is my allegation.
Q I would like to ask you another question with regard to Volk. You told us just a little about the acquisition of property near Stutthof and the site of the concentration camp Stutthof. Do you know what part Volk played in this acquisition?
A No, Mr. Robbins, I can not give you any information about it. I know only that Volk took a trip on one occasion on this matter, together with other people. This matter was never discussed with anybody. It was never discussed with Ansorge or Wenner, or with one of my auditors. I heard from the details only here from the documents.
Q You never heard during you time with Amtsgruppe W, prior to 30 June 1943, anything about the acquisition of property in or about Stutthof?
A Yes, I did. I knew that the subject was being discussed. However, I was not internally concerned with this matter. After all, if Volk went to Stutthof, then somebody was bound to say, "What's going on there?", and that an acquisition of property was concerned here we knew, but for what purpose this property was to be purchased was not discussed.
Q You didn't know that it was for the site of a concentration camp?
A I doubt that very much. However, I don't know it.
Q Do you know who handled the negotiations in Amtsgruppe W?
A I personally am of the opinion that the title "Amtsgruppe W" is a false concept. If it is that it included all the enterprises, then it was always Pohl.
Q Didn't you see during your time the letter that Mauer wrote, which is Document NO 2133 in Book XIV, page 35 of the German, page 41 of the English, Exhibit 387, which says that, "Negotiations are being conducted by Volk?" Didn't this letter come to your attention?
A I have Document Book 14 before me. Could you please tell me the number of the page once more?
Q Page 35 in the German text, it is addressed to Staff W, and in the second paragraph Mauer says that, "Negotiations are being conducted by Dr. Volk and me," and in the third paragraph he says, "Negotiations about the sale are conducted by Dr. Volk".
A Well, we had a mutual discussion about the mail that had arrived, and the following took place on that occasion: All auditing matters and all taxation matters were mutually discussed, because I practically was concerned with all taxation matters. This was very difficult at the beginning for Dr. Volk and Dr. Wenner. Whenever such letters arrived, then Ansorge, who looked through the mail, either passed them on directly to Volk or whenever such a letter was discussed in the discussion of the mail which was addressed directly to Volk, it was immediately passed on. However, we would never discuss such things. I can not recall this letter either. It is possible that I may have looked into it by accident. However, I certainly did not acknowledge this letter, and I don't recall it at all.
Q Will you turn to Document Book 15, to page 48 of the German, page 37 of the English text. It is Document NO 515, Exhibit 413. This is the document which we mentioned yesterday. Will you look at this document and tell us if there were any other industries associated with Amtsgruppe W which employed concentration camp inmates that are not listed in this document?
A. I know that temporarily when cementing a well for the Mattoni A.G. inmates were used for that purpose. However, that was not for that plant but this was done by order of Office Group C for the construction of the wall. I believe that we can say that Office Group C was the employer in this case. I cannot recall any other company which employed inmates outside of the one which I have just mentioned and the ones which are contained in this list.
Q. Can you tell us what kind of labor was employed in the other SS industries within the German Reich? Were those laborers so-called "free laborers from the East?"
A. As far as I am informed they were exclusively free German workers, or they were free Chech workers, with the execution of one plant which I have already mentioned. That was the Apollinaris Plant GMBH, where female Eastern workers with small children were employed there to do very light work.
Q. And with this exception it is your opinion that none of the SS industries used Eastern workers, except for the concentration camp inmates?
A. I am just looking over the list. It is possible that in the course of one of the last firms which were founded however, it was not during my time but at the end of 1944 -- inmates were used in the Oil Slate GMBH. However, I am not informed about that. Baier may know something about the matter.
Q. Before we leave this subject lot me ask you ... Was it permitted for an auditor under commercial law to be a member of the Vorstand or Aufsichtsrat of the corporation?
A. Yes, he was permitted to hold that position. However, he then immediately lost his qualifications as an auditor.
That was very unpleasant because the examination is so difficult.
Q. I should like to turn to another subject. You have told us that you were opposed to National Socialism. Can you tell us briefly upon what your opposition was based?
A. This was on the basis of my personal attitude that is, as far as my ethical principles were concerned.
Q. Excuse me. Will you tell us what principles or practices or activities of the NSDAP you disagreed with, rather than explaining your own personal ideology. What was it in the Party you disagreed with?
A. I did not agree with the ideology of the Party and I did not agree with the economic principles of the Party. With regard to the economic principles the situation was such the National Socialist administration during the entire time of its activity only used up the substances of properties. Everybody can do that. If I use up my bank account I can live very easily for a few years - that is to say, as far as my account is sufficient. Whenever my account has become exhausted then, of course, I am confronted by catastrophy. The economic development of the Reich under National Socialism was inevitable. This trend of thought was clear from the beginning already at the HighSchool at which I studied at Cologne.
Q. Let me for a moment direct your attention to the National Social ideology of the Party. You say you opposed that. What principles of the Party did you oppose in that regard?
A. I didn't agree with the racial principles. I didn't believe in a dictatorship and a world philosophy at that time. After all, Germany for hundreds of years was the land of liberty.
After all, in Germany the spiritual liberty was brought about by the Reformation. Now, for the first time, we had a movement which demanded of every person that he should think exclusively only in one direction. This was also shown in the field of the ideas of history; but not here alone - but also in other fields, for example in physics, in geography. If somebody published a book which some leader of the Party did not approve of, then this man was impossible for the National Socialism, and this spirit - this lack of liberty which was a principle of National Socialism does not agree with German ideology at all. After all, German culture is based on independent and free thinking.
Q. You also told us that you opposed the principles of the SS. Will you tell us briefly what principles of the SS you disagreed with and opposed?
A. I am thinking of the principles of the SS as the executor of the trend of thought which I have just expressed. In the case of the SS it was a principle that whoever thought differently than was prescribed by the Leadership, then this person was actually guilty of disloyalty. I would like to be able to give you the following example. In the Experimental station for food I once complained as an auditor that the business manager had carried out a transfer of foreign exchange to Russia, which had not been approved by the agency in charge of foreign exchange. However, as it was explained to me later on, this had been ordered by Himmler personally. This was a transfer of horses and machinery. When I opposed this because it was contrary to the German laws this business manager saw to it - his name was Vogel and many sides expressed the opinion that I was daring to maintain a derogatory attitude towards the orders of the Reichsfuehrer.
This is how you have to consider the ideology of the SS. If the Reichsfuehrer issued a directive or policy, and somebody deviated from that policy, then he had to be declared disloyal and was to be exterminated. That was the most un-German principle which ever existed.
Q. Did you at any time obtain knowledge, or see any violence, of the SS with which you disagreed -- any violent activities?
A. I never saw anything at all. I heard of them on several occasions and for this reason I felt the obligation within me to ascertain these facts for myself. I asked several SS officers about these things. Most of them were silent because they were obliged to secrecy in these matters. Some others, however, talked. And they informed me precisely about several things, and that is how I got my information. This was not my own assumption; I received my information from sources that were authentic. Therefore, I was not able to be mistaken in this matter.
Q. What kind of violence did you hear about in this way?
A. In this way I heard about shootings which were carried out, and gassing of people.
Q. Then it wasn't completely impossible for someone in Germany to find out about these things if he really wanted to.... Is that correct?
A. I don't know that. I cannot tell you that. I noticed the following: I asked a friend of mine, who had closer contact with some SS officer, and in that connection a complete picture --- I asked him to come to my apartment and he informed me quite precisely.
Q. And what did you hear in particular about the gassings and shootings.
A. I only heard the fact that constantly gassing was being carried out, and before that I heard when these socalled Sonder Kommandos with special detachments were working in the East, I also heard that people were being shot en masse.
Q. In what concentration camp did you hear that gassings were carried out?
A. I only heard about Auschwitz.
Q. Did you hear of any other kind of violence or mistreatment of concentration camp inmates in your contact with the resistance groups, or in any other way?
A. I heard about the fact that guards in the camps were treating the inmates very roughly. I never saw anything of the kind.
Q. Did you hear that foreigners were incarcerated in the concentration camps?
A. Well, most people in the concentration camps were foreigners. After all, French Jews were sent there; Belgian Jews were sent there.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
Q Isn't it true that it wasn't very difficult to find out that foreigners were in concentration camps?
A It depended on how close you were, you would get to these people. After all one was able to hear the language they talked, but it was a question of the distance. If I was directly before these people, of course, I could know that they were talking a foreign language.
Q You could see them, couldn't you, working in railway stations and around on the highways in Germany and in public places?
A I never saw them there actually. I only saw, for example, that after the WVHA was destroyed by bombs these inmates were used to clear up the rubble, and inmates were frequently used for such work. Otherwise I only saw them when I inspected plants, or, for example, in Auschwitz I saw them march in the street.
Q Would you say that it was common knowledge in Germany that non-Germans were in concentration camps?
A I believe, Mr. Robbins, that I am unable to give you the required information about that. Your question goes too far. The knowledge which I could obtain, it was quite probable that not everyone could obtain the same knowledge. Just to what extent these things were known actually, I don't know. However, it is certain that there are a number of people who today deny any knowledge of these things. Here I am above all thinking of high party leaders or government agencies.
Q Would you say that persons in high positions in the party and the government had, generally speaking, an opportunity to find out about conditions in concentration camps?
DR. HEIM: Dr. Heim for the Defendant Hohberg.
Your Honor, I object to this question. The defendant cannot state from his own knowledge whether these agencies actually had knowledge of these things. He has just stated that his knowledge is only based on assumptions.
MR. ROBBINS: Your Honor, I didn't ask if they had knowledge. I asked if upon the basis of his experience he could say that they had an opportunity to learn about these things.
Court No. II, Case No, 4.
THE PRESIDENT: This, of course, under rules of evidence as we know them, is objectionable as calling for a conclusion, not based upon the knowledge of the witness. I think this is the first instance where German counsel have made an objection which is recognizable in English and American law. It is very well stated and very well taken, and we will sustain it.
Q (By Mr. Robbins) Did you know during the war that people were placed in concentration camps upon protective custody orders without receiving a trial?
A No, I did not know anything about the method on which these people were turned into the concentration camps. I only saw the results.
Q Did you think that everyone who was in a concentration camp had been given a trial?
AAt the time if I had been asked I really could not have told anyone just what the procedure was.
Q I am just asking you if you thought at that time that everyone had received a trial, had been given a trial before a court of law who was in a camp?
A Mr. Robbins, to carry out an interrogation is very simple. One orders a man to report to some place; one charges him with something and first of all in the course of an investigation he is sent to a concentration camp. It is always easy to fix a charge, no matter if it is based on true facts or not. The same thing happened to Dr. May when he was sent to jail. First he was put into jail and then charges were raised against him.
Q Did you hear at any time that inmates in concentration camps had died from overwork or malnutrition?
A I cannot give you any authentic information. I never received any authentic information about that according to numbers. To what extent something like that was possible in the plants I can only judge on the basis of the plants which I visited. In this connection I can actually say with a good conscience that it was not possible that Court No. II, Case No. 4.these people were worked to death, unless they were maltreated by their guards at a time when this was impossible for an outsider to observe.
However, they were not killed from their work. In the stone processing plants themselves, I never have been nor in the granite quarries, and so on, and I would like to leave the judgment about that to someone who actually saw these plants in operation.
Q You cannot say then that inmates were worked to death in stone quarries, in carrying stones and processing stones?
A No. I only know from my memory, through one of my auditors who, however, did not see it himself, but somebody told it to him, that the following incident had occurred. He was told that the camp guards, just as a pasttime, had these people run back and forth with a big stone tied to their backs. As far as I know, however, this was in the spare time when the inmates were not working in the plant.
Q When did you hear about that; when was it supposed to have happened?
A That must have happened in 1940 or it must have been at the beginning of 1941, because several of my auditors were in Mauthausen or in Flossenbuerg.
Q Did you hear of any violence that the SS took, any violent measures that the SS took outside of the concentration camps against Jews?
A I only know what I saw myself at Berlin.
Q What did you see?
A I saw how these people were kicked out of their apartments, how they were put into trucks, and how they were deported.
Q Would you say that these facts were common knowledge in Berlin?
A The transport of the Jews everyone was able to see. After all, people would stand around the streets and watch these things every time it happened.
Q And when did this take place?
A I can't state it with one hundred percent certainty, but I Court No. II, Case No. 4.think it was early in 1943.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take a recess, Mr. Robbins.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will be in recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q You told us that you kept a list of the members of the circle of Himmler's friends, in connection with your activity with the Passmann circle. Is this the same circle as the Keppler circle, that is, the circle of Himmler's friends?
A I believe that there is a misunderstanding here. I did not keep a list. But I got a copy of the list of the circle of friends of the Reichsfuehrer Himmler. I got it from Pohl's anteroom. I copies it at home, and passed it on.
Q Is this Himmler circle the same as the so-called Keppler circle. Did you hear it referred to by that name?
A Yes, it is.
Q And these were the contributing members of the SS, the industrialists who contributed financial support to the SS, is that right?
A What they did? I don't know. They were Himmler's representatives in the economic life. The so-called contributing members of the SS is something quite different. You know the term, I believe.
Q Can't you tell from the names on the list that these were industrialists in Germany in the so-called Keppler or Himmler circle?
A They were bankers and industrialists mainly.
Q Do you recall the names of any of the leaders today?
A Do you wish me to give you the names now?
Q Yes, give me a few names?
A Goering's brother, Ritter, von Halt, Professor Meyer, Keppler, Pohl. I think there were about thirty, as I recall it.
Q Do you remember any other businessmen?
A Not at the moment.
Q Do you remember today anyone from the Dresdner Bank?
A Professor Meyer, I mentioned already.
Q Do you remember any one from I.G. Farben?
A I believe somebody was there but I don't know the name.
Q Do you remember any one from the Friedrich Flick Koncern?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A I had heard that Otto Steinbrinck was a member. I did not know it at the time. I knew his name at the time, but I did not know he was a member of the circle. I learned that here.
Q And would you say that the financial support that these men contributed was substantial?
A The way the financial support was carried on, I don't know. Neither do I know what they discussed, but I know the fact that these people subordinated themselves to Himmler's aims by acting as his representatives, as it were, in the economic life.
Q Do you know what Pohl had to do with this, other than being a member of the circle? Did the WVHA handle any of the funds of the Keppler Circle?
A No. I know that Pohl frequently absented himself from the monthly meetings. I don't think that Pohl's connections were very close with that circle. A financial contact with the DWB concern did not exist, unless Professor Meyer in former time granted a considerable credit on association which was administered under the W-VIII.
Q Do you know whether or not Amtsgruppe-A handled any of these funds, either from the contributing members, or from the Keppler Circle?
A Office Group-A administered as a sideline funds of AllgemeineSS fund. As a result of this formerly when the moneys by the contributing members were still being paid, these moneys had to be paid in there, and were administered there, but so far as I know the contributions of those members ceased at the beginning of the war, so that when Office Group-A existed as an organization, no further contributions were probably received.
Q Do you know for certain that these contributions ceased at the beginning of the war?
A No, I only know these things from Frank, and perhaps it would be more advisable to ask Frank about these. knowledge is secondhand.
Q Do you remember any one from the Krupp Concern on this list that you obtained?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
DR. HEIM: Dr. Heim for the Defendant Dr. Hohberg. May it please the Court, I object to this question on the grounds that neither the Krupp Concern nor the I.G. Farben is connected in the slightest degree with this trial, and it is completely immaterial whether a member of the Krupp Concern belonged to the Himmler Circle of friends.
MR. ROBBINS: May it please your Honors, it is relevant as to what this witness can remember that he saw on the list. That is whether or not he actually received the list.
THE PRESIDENT: What difference does it make whether he ever received the list or not in this case?
MR. BOBBINS: He has given this as an indication that he belonged to a resistance movement, and whether or not he received the list supports or detracts from that contention.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you are using this testimony to impeach his statement that he was opposed to National Socialism?
MR. BOBBINS: Yes, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: And you are testing his statement that he did receive the list by asking him what it contained?
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, your Honor. I might say this is the last question I have on that list, anyway.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Heim, will you withdraw your objection for one question?
DR. HEIM: No, if the Tribunal please, the witness has stated that he found a list with about thirty names on it. He also replied to the Prosecution's question, and gave the names which he could still remember; those are all the names which he could still remember, thereby, this testimony is complete so far as that goes, and other questions by the Prosecution are superfluous, because they cannot lead to any result.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the Court will listen to the next question, and determine whether or not it is proper.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q Do you recall, witness, having seen the name of any one connected with the Krupp organization on the list that you received?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
THE PRESIDENT: You may answer that, yes or no?
THE WITNESS: No.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q Turning to another subject, witness. Did you ever hear of a SS man bragging or boasting about the mistreatment of Jews or of concentration camp inmates?
A I am sorry. I did not quite understand the question.
Q Did you ever hear of a SS man bragging or boasting of the mistreatment of Jews or concentration camp inmates?
A Yes.
Q Will you tell us about that, please?
A I don't recall details. I only know that on some occasions I would hear that the guards in the camps treated the inmates inhumanely.
Q And my question is, did you hear that SS men boasted or bragged about the mistreatment which the inmates and Jews received?
Did you get the translation of "bragged" and "boasted"?
THE PRESIDENT: I am afraid the translation did not go through.
THE INTERPRETER: The translation came through. She translated the term all right, but channel three is dead.
Q. Let me repeat my question, witness. Did you hear of SS men bragging or boasting of the mistreatment of inmates in concentration camps?
A. No, I did not hear that anybody boasted or bragged about it, but I heard the facts.
Q. Let me refresh your recollection. Do you know the SS man Mowinkel, who was in charge of a DAW plant in Platjowa?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall having seen him mistreat inmates?
A. What he did was to take a piece of wood from a fence and hit a Jewish inmate on the head. That wasn't really mistreating him.
Q. What would you call it?
A. I told him that I believed this man was crazy.
Q. And did not Mowinkel say to you, "I am proud to be unjust"?
A. Yes, verbatim. We asked him, "What do you think you are doing hitting that fellow on the head?"
Q. What did he say?
A. And he said, "I am proud to be unjust." We were of the opinion that he was an adolescent. He walked through the yard of the factory and just hit people on the head, but lightly, not very heavily. It was not a mistreatment, but it was strange.
Q. Did you hear any other SS man make statements like that, "I am proud to be unjust"?, or "I am proud of the treatment we give the inmates"?
A. No. I never heard anything else. It was my impression that Mowinkel was unbalanced and not normal because a normal man would not do a thing like that, but I would like to emphasize that he did not hit people severely; he just walked past them and hit them, out of pure fun.
Q. And you think that his treatment of inmates was not typical of the SS?
A. No, I don't think you could call that typical. It was entirely connected with the somewhat strange character of this SS man.
Q. And this particular case where you say you saw him take a fence post -- Is that what you said? -- and hit an inmate on the head with the board or with the post, you say you would not call that mistreatment?
A. He took this piece of fence, and he had that always in his hand when he walked around, when he walked across the yard. It was not mistreatment because the Jews laughed about that.
Q. You did not see him hit any one very hard?
A. No, he never hit hard, but I, of course, remembered the remark because it shows that this man was not normal.
Q. He thought that by just going a round tapping the inmates he was being unjust? And he said he was proud of it?
A. I don't know what he meant by that, but both Dr. May and I just shook our heads.
Q. Well, you told us that you had heard from authentic sources that guards in concentration camps did mistreat inmates. What kind of treatment did you hear that the inmates received from the camp guards?
A. I heard mainly that they were being hit by the guards.
Q. Just lightly or severely?
A. I only heard about this.
Q. Did you hear that they were wounded, that they were hit severely?
A. No.
Q. You did not hear any details?
A. I certainly heard many other details, which I no longer recall. I was most interested in those things, and I always investigated them, but the details I no longer recall today, unfortunately, but I would like, in order to defend the works managers, to say that I had the opportunity in Berlin now and then to talk to a works manager and that they were opposed to this just as much as I was, but I only met very few works managers.
Q. Did you hear at any time that prisoners of war were incarcerated in the concentration camps?
A. Yes. That became clear from the fact alone that when I saw this long column of women outside of the Auschwitz concentration camp, they were wearing Russian uniforms. I asked a man, who was standing around there what those uniforms were and he told me they were Russian uniforms, from which I concluded that Russian prisoners of war must have been around in this neighborhood at least. In how far Russian prisoners of war were actually in concentration camps, I don't know.
Q. Now, one last question on this: Have you told us about all of the instances that you saw or heard of mistreatment of concentration camp inmates or mistreatment of Jews, Jews either inside or outside of the camps?
A. You are asking whether I have told you everything?
Q. Yes.
A. No, I have seen a great many more things, but it's no use --
Q. Would you tell us about that , please?
A. During that long period of time of three years one would hear now and then that mistreatment occurred in concentration camps and was done by the guards, including those which had fatal results. I know the latter for certain from the time when I was staying in Lemberg.
Q. What did you learn at Lemberg?
A. I know that they had Ukrainian guards there who, as I was told, had killed inmates by beating them to death.
Q. And have you told us all that you learned about the mistreatment of Jews outside of concentration camps? That is, mistreatment by the SS. Let us confine ourselves to mistreatments by the SS.
A. I don't recall at this moment any small incidents or details.
Q. Do you remember any instances of mistreatment by the SS of of Poles or any other non-German nationals?