He ordered me to go to Burger in order to discuss the matter with him. Burger told me on that occasion that the administrative officer of all camps -- and this was also the administrative officer of the camp of Hinzert --was exactly informed about the channel for turning in gold. He was surprised that this channel had not been used. He himself told me that this amount was too small so that he himself could not accept it. After, from the camps, he did not only receive dental gold, but he received the dental gold, together with other valuables. For this reason, he refused to accept the 64 grammes of gold. He also requested me on his own initiative to give the gold back to the courier so that the administrative officer would submit this gold, together with some other shipments, to him. I personally, as well as the Office D-III, were not able to accept such gold. We did not have any authority to deal with it at all. This was not done either. Neither Lolling nor I accepted the gold.
Q Can you tell me, Witness, what happened to the 20 grammes of gold referred to in the first part of the telegram. In other words, 64 grammes were returned and it would appear that 20 grammes were retained. Can you tell me about that?
A. Unfortunately, I can't tell you anything about it, because I was not with that agency at that time. I have already stated in the course of my interrogation that apparently, according to what I can get from this document, these 20 grammes of gold must have been accepted by my predecessor. However, I don't know anything about that. I cannot see why he should have accepted this, because he was not authorized to accept it either. Actually, he was not authorized to accept that gold. My testimony at that time that he accepted it was only based on my knowledge of this document. I myself only was sent to Office D-III on the 3d of September and I began my duties in the middle of September.
Therefore, I cannot possibly know anything about what happened on the 1st of September.
Q. Witness, I want to ask another question or two before completing this cross-examination, and it's a matter which involves the dental stations in concentration camps, as well as the dental stations in the outside labor camps and I am referring to the so-called "Tooth Action." However, before questioning you on this matter, I would like to read two brief excerpts on the subject, which are contained in the Document Books, and which have therefore already been introduced. In order to refresh your recollection on this and to indicate just what I am talking about, I would like to read you briefly from these documents. The first document from which I wish to read is Document NO-2637, and it's Exhibit 293, contained in Book 10 at page 135 of the English Document Book and page 60 of the German Document Book, and it's an extract of the testimony of Walter Neff, given in the case of the United States versus Karl Brandt, et al, " And then there was " -- and I quote --- "And then there was another action. That was the so-called 'Tooth Action' All prisoners had to go to the hospital for examination and treatment of their teeth. In reality it was determined whether the prisoner had gold in his mouth or not. If he had gold in his mouth, he was registered carefully and after he died he had to pay the gold from his mouth for the last tribute for the fight against National Socialism."
I should like also to read on this same matter an excerpt from Document NO-2332, which is Exhibit 519, in Book 21, at page 28 of the English Document Book and page 13 of the German Document Book, and I quote, "I remember a written order of the Amt. D-III, which, in my opinion, must have been issued in 1943, saying that anyone suffering from a disease was to receive a mark on the upper arms after examination and after removal -- the eventual removal --- of any gold teeth , which read as follows: 'Examined by the Dental Surgeon.'" Now, Witness, I would like to know when you first heard of this action which has been referred to as the "Tooth Action."
It was carried out in the dental stations. The order was issued in 1943 by Lolling. When did you first hear of it?
A In connection with what you have told me, I have heard this word "tooth action" for the first time right now.
Q Had you heard of any action which corresponds with this which might have been called with some other name?
A No. I heard that it was a proscribed procedure in some camps. Apparently, this was a camp order by the camp physician, that a deceased inmate from whom the gold had been removed was stamped on his upper arm "received or examined by the dentist". However, I don't know when this order was issued or who issued it. I must assume, since this was not done in all camps, that the camp physicians in charge in some camps ordered that on his own initiative. I never heard anything about such a tooth action as just described by you.
Q Why do you say that you assume it wasn't the case in any camp? It was issued by Lolling and would seem that all camps would receive the order; that is, all dentists located in the concentration camps would receive the order. I see no reason why it should be distributed to one or two camps and not all of the camps.
A I don't know anything about that. I can only say that if the order had been issued by Lolling then it would have been addressed to all the camps but then he would have addressed it to all camp physicians and not to the dentists. Furthermore, at this time the extraction of gold was a task of the camp physicians and it was not the task of the dentist. The dentist did not have anything to do with the extraction of gold at all. They only had to supervise that from 1942 on. If this order was issued by Looing then it must have been addressed to the camp medical officers and that must have happened at the time when I was not yet assigned to office D-III and I could not have had any knowledge at that time, nor did I gain any knowledge later on.
Q You state that the order issued in 1942 -- that is that order which directed dentists to supervise the extraction of tooth, gold teeth, from deceased inmates, and it is very reasonable to state that the tooth action was also carried out by the dentist by that time in conjunction with the necessary supervision of the extractions; and, that being the case, you would have known of it, would you not, form your various reports and from your inspections of the dental stations in the concentration camps?
A May I state once more quite clearly that the basic order for the removal of dental gold was issued by Himmler on 23rd of September 1940. It was not issued in 1943. All other orders which deal with the removal of dental gold, and the orders prescribing the procedure to be followed were either issued by Lolling or by office D-I. However, they were never issued by any dental agency. All this was done at the time when there was no leading dentists or Head Dentists in the office D-III. From 1942 on the dentists were used to supervise this extraction of dental gold and that was done by order of Lolling. That is all I can say about the subject.
Q Witness, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that simply because an order directing a certain course of conduct is issued prior to your arriving on the scene, that therefore you wouldn't have knowledge of it. If an order is issued in 1940 to a specific station you don't have to be there in 1940 in order to have knowledge of the order. If you arrive in 1942 and are performing work which is in connection with the subject matter of the order, you will necessarily have knowledge of it; but let us go on to something else. I think we are wasting time on this matter.
A May I say something else on that matter? I am of the opinion that, even if in the year 1940 I had already been in that agency, even then I would not have obtained any knowledge from this order of Himmler because this order was addressed to the dentists since this action was not concerned with the dental service.
But this order was passed through Gluecks and it was passed on to the camp commanders and it was passed on from Lolling to the camp medical officers. However, the dentists never dealt with this matter and, therefore, I would not have gained any knowledge of that order.
Q Isn't it a fact, witness, that it was quite a dangerous matter for one enterned in a concentration camp to have a great deal of gold in in his mouth?
A I don't think so. I am certain that there were many inmates who had a lot of gold in their mouth. I am quite sure that nobody took any stops against these people just because they had a lot of gold in their mouth. The order, which I do not know personally, must have read to the effect that the gold was to be extracted from deceased persons, not from living persons.
Q You did not know of any instance in which the fact that a person had a great deal of gold in his mouth -- you do not know of any reason -excuse me -- or any instances in which that hastened the time of his death? You do not know that?
A I never heard anything about that. I consider something like that completely out of question.
DR. HIGGINS: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Any questions by defense counsel?
DR. RATZ: Your Honor, I only want to ask two questions.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. RATZ:
Q Witness, yesterday Document 1998 was shown to you. It concerns your career. In this document, under paragraph 12, is the statement: "Medical Squadron SD Main Office." Now, the suspicion has been mentioned that you were connected with the SD, the Security Service of the RSHA. Please explain this point to us quite briefly because I believe that this matter has not been completely clarified.
A I can say very little about that because I do not know the organzation of the RSHA, the SD and the Gestapo. I have never been in my connection with the RSHA or with the SD, the Security Service. The RSHA was established much later. However, as far as I can recall, there never was an SD Main Office. I never heard of that firm at all. In my opinion, it can only be that the SD stands for Sanitaetsdienst -- that means medical service -- and this does not belong to that particular branch at all. It belongs to a different branch. I can't explain this whole thing. Before the soldiers and the non-commissioned personnel in the medical service were usually called Sanitaetsdienstgrade -- ranks in the medical service and, of course, the abbreviation is "SD."
"Sanitaetsdienst" stands for medical service. This has nothing to do with the SD, the Security Service. There must have been some confusion here.
Q There is a second question I want to ask you. In your direct examination you stated that from the reports about the dental gold which was removed from deceased persons you could not gain that these inmates had been exterminated and killed. In the cross examination it was stated that these reports only contained the quantities of gold and that, therefore, you could not see whether the gold came from inmates who had died a normal death or inmates who had been killed. Could you now tell us why you couldn't get the idea that the gold might have originated from inmates who had been killed?
A I know today that or termination measures were carried out in a large scale. It must be assumed that here much more gold was extracted than was done in the case of inmates who had died of a natural death and that was that the reports contained. It is also shown by Document NO 1000which has just been presented that in the camp Hinzert also, within the time limit of more than one year, 84 grams of gold had accumulated. That is only a very small amount if you figure it out by the month, and matters were similarly done in all the other camps. Therefore, from these reports, I could not assume that any such extermination measures and actions were carried out.
Q My last question now is this: this document 1000 which has just been shown to you and this document has also been mentioned in the affidavit by Burger which I presented -- on page 26 of that affidavit of my document book I would like to shown you this particular quotation and I would like to ask you if you want to make any statement about that. Burger states here:
"I cannot say why, from the Camp Hinzert, a pachage of dental gold was one one occasion sent direct to me to me to office D-III. As mentioned above, the dental gold had to be handed over, together with the valuables, to the concentration camp administration which delivered them to office IV."
Is that statement correct or what do you have to say with regard to this statement by Burger?
AAs I know today, this is correct. It should have been turned in through office D-IV and passed on to Berlin. At that time, in 1944, I could only assume that this was the channel through which the gold was passed on. However, at that time I did not have any precise knowledge about it.
DR. RATZ: Your Honors, I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: No questions by other Defense Counsel? Do you have your next witness ready in behalf of this defendant?
DR. RATZ: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshall will return this witness to the dock and bring in the witness Dr. Paul Reutter.
(Witness excused)
DR. PAUL REUTTER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, raise your right hand, please, and repeat after me: I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath).
THE PRESIDENT: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY DR. RATZ:
Q. Witness, your name is Dr. Paul Reutter? When and where were you born?
A. I was born on 14 October 1911 at Bad Homburg, vor der Hoche.
Q. Since when are you a member of the NSDAP and the SS?
A. I joined the NSDAP in 1933, and I joined the SS in the same year.
Q. Were you the camp dentist at Dachau?
A. Yes. In 1938 I worked at the hospital at Dachau as a civilian employee, and then in 1939 when the war broke out I was conscripted. I received my military basic training, and afterwards I was transferred to the concentration camp Dachau as a dentist. At that time there was no difference as yet between the headquarters dental station and the inmates' dental station. The inmates as well as the SS men were treated in the same dental station.
Q. Before you tell us about your activity as the camp dentist, please tell us your career in detail.
A. In January 1941 I was transferred from the concentration camp, and then I became leading dentist for the Division Viking, which was established at that time. I treated patients at that time at a dental station, and at the same time I had the supervision over 22 dentists who were assigned to that particular division.
Q. Where did you go from there?
A. In October 1942, by order of the Medical Office, I was transferred to the wvha. At the time the position of leading dentist was established in the WVHA, and I was assigned to that position.
I was succeeded by Dr. Pook.
Q. Witness, please tell us some more details about your activity at Dachau. Where was your dental station located?
A. The dental station at Dachau was located withing the camp and was amongst the hospital buildings there. The dental station was very well equipped, and it occupied a lot of space, compared with the dental station before. It was better equipped than any station, or its equipment was at least as good. We had two dental offices there, equipped with the most modern equipment. Then we had x-ray apparatus there, and we had a technical laboratory which was newly established.
Q. Who worked in this dental station?
A. In addition to myself as the dentist, I had a clerk, an assistant. This person was an inmate. In the technical laboratory there were two inmates working. One of then was a dentist who had passed his state examination, and one of then was a dental technician.
Q. Whom did your patients consist of?
A. As I have already stated, we treated SS men and also inmates. We treated approximately 30 patients perday. In the morning our office hours lasted for three and a half hours, and in the afternoon they lasted for three hours. Between 11 and 12 o'clock we would treat SS men, and during the other time we treated the inmates. In the afternoon mainly technical work was carried out, or in the afternoon we would deal with the cases that required some more time.
Q. What work did you carry out?
A. Our equipment and material were such that we could carry out all dental work which might come up. We could threat patients and we could treat badly infected teeth. We could carry out extractions of teeth. We could give treatment to the roots, and we could take x-ray pictures. We could treat wounds of the teeth, and we could replace teeth. We could replace rows of teeth, and we could fit these people out with teeth which could be removed, and also crowns.
Q. Witness, did you make any distinction in this work between your inmate patients and members of the SS?
A. I was a dentist because I liked my profession, and therefore it was natural for me not to make any distinction between SS men and inmates. I considered all of them as patients, and I gave my treatment only according to my professional point of view. I did not make any distinction between an SS man and an inmate.
Q. Were the drugs and the material used for your patients the same.
A. Yes, the material and the medicines which were used were the same. The same material was used for both SS men and inmates When we used anesthesia in the case of extractions, we used exactly the same drugs.
Q. Witness, during your activity as a dentist at Dachau did you also have to treat broken jaws or things of that kind?
A. When I was in the concentration camp at Dachau I did not have to treat any injuries or broken jaws. That is to say, I did not have to give treatment to persons who had their teeth knocked out or something of that sort.
Q. Whenever a patient had to have some teeth replaced, no matter if it was in inmate or a member of the SS, just what procedure was followed?
A. Whenever teeth have to be replaced, then we must make a difference between two things. Teeth for inmates could be replaced at the expense of the Reich, and inmates could have their teeth replaced at their own expense. When it was at the expense of the inmates they could immediately have their teeth replaced; at the expense of the Reich the following procedure was followed. First of all the inmates had to make a request to the camp leader and had to tell exactly what was to be replaced. This was ascertained by the dentist. Then this request was passed on to the Camp Medical Officer through official channels, and then this was passed on to Berlin for approval. Whenever the teeth were fixed at the expense of the inmate customary fees were charged. These are the minimum rates for patients who belonged to insurance agencies and then, of course, these funds were cashed in by the agency which administered the funds of the inmates.
Q. Witness, I now want to refer to the question of the removal of teeth or part of teeth of inmates which consisted of valuable metals. What can you say about that as a dentist?
A. I myself did not carry out such extractions, but inmates had been assigned for that purpose by the Camp Medical Officer. At that time I talked about the extraction of gold with the dentists, and I was told then that this was also done in cases of civilians who had died, and in these cases the gold had also been removed from their mouths.
The gold was removed by inmates who had been assigned to that work by the camp medical officer, and once the gold had been removed it was cleaned, and then it was put into a bag, together with the data of the person to whom it had belonged, and then every month this gold was collected, and then it was sent out by the camp medical officer. A monthly report was submitted to the Medical Office about the gold which had been removed.
THE PRESIDENT: A good place for a recess.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. GAWLIK: (Counsel for defendants Bolk and Bobermin) May it please the Court, I would like the two defendants, Volk and Bobermin, to be excused from tomorrow's session in order to prepare their defense.
THE PRESIDENT: Defendants Volk and Bobermin may be excused rom tomorrow's session of court with the consent of the Court and at the request of their counsel.
BY DR. RATZ (Counsel for defendant Pook):
Q. Witness, you just told us about the removal of tooth gold from deceased inmates in the Dachau concentration camp. Did you as a camp dentist take any part in this, or did you supervise the removal?
A. I neither removed the gold myself nor did I supervise the removal. I was not present when It was done. The camp doctor had assigned inmates for the removal.
Q. You sent reports?
A. Yes; they were monthly reports. They were always concerned with small quantities: a few grams, or a few bridges.
Q. In other words, whenever somebody died, and after the gold was removed, the removal was reported to you?
A. What happened was when somebody died the Office would decide what inmates had to remove the gold and he saw to it whether there were any artificial teeth present. If there were, he would remove them.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. How do you mean by "he ?" You said, "The office...." Whom do you refer to?
A. The inmate who was assigned to this.
Q. Who assigned the inmate?
A. The camp doctor.
Q. That is the medical officer -- not the dental officer?
A. No, the doctor of the camp.
BY DR. RATZ:
Q. To what agency did your report go?
A. The reports went to the medical office, Department 1-C, of the medical office.
Q. The office which was called, later on, fourteen?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have to report to a superior agency about your dental work?
A. Each month a monthly report was sent off by request, and this gave the work done, and gave also a strength report of the personnel employed, hours of work which were observed; the work done was broken down according to the various kinds of treatment. For instance, so-and-so many fillings, so-and-so many fillings without previous treatment; extractions, and so forth. These reports went, as all correspondence from the dentist, to the camp doctor.
Before the war, when I was working in Dachau hospital, from where I could write direct to the medical office, I wrote direct to the medical office in my ignorance and I was reproached for doing this. All correspondence had to be sent through the camp medical officer-which not only went for me but concerned all dentists. They were always under the medical officers. There was a rule, an official directive, that the dental service of the Waffen-SS in war was subordinated unequivocally in professional matters to the next highest dentist, which, at that time when there were no leading dentists, was Department 1-C. And, as far as medical matters were concerned; the medical officer; and in military respects: the camp commandant concerned.
Q. If you required drugs and material for your treatments, what did you do?
A. Orders for drugs and material went the same way. They had to be sent in five copies through the camp medical officer, and the medical officer was the one who passed them back again.
Q. What did you do after you had done your work?
A. Before a treatment was completed the patient appeared in the station; we took down his personal data. He was treated, and the details of the treatment were written down on the file card. That file card also showed whether he had to come back or whether treatment had been completed.
Q. You told us before that when you gave medical dental treatment you made no difference between SS members and inmates. I would like to ask you in addition whether there was a directive according to which certain categories of inmates, such as Jews, had to be given different dental treatment, worse treatment.
A. No, no such directive existed. There was only one rule, that dentists had to treat inmates. From the equipment of the various dental stations it becomes clear quite definitely that as far as the medical office was concerned, the office which had created the dental station, it took an important view of the fact that good and careful treatment was given to the inmates. The drugs no longer available -- or at least in short supply -- in the usual practices were very largely available to those stations.
Q. Witness, do you know the name Anton Feissel?
A. Yes.
DR. RATZ: I would like to say here that a former inmate of the Dachau concentration camp has written to me. I hope that letter can be converted into an affidavit, but I have not yet completed that affidavit. I would, all the same, be most grateful if I would be allowed to show this letter to the witness because this witness is mentioned by name in the letter. Anton Feissel, from Bad Homburg, says as follows:
"As a former inmate of the Dachau concentration camp I came into contact with the members of the dental station.
They treated me because they produced a set of false teeth for me. Dr. Reutter, who is know to me, he is also born in Homburg, treated me, and he, as well as the other personnel in the station, treated me, as well as other inmates in no way which involved immorality or bodily harm. They showed a decent, conscientious, and kind and helpful attitude. I am prepared to give this statement in the form of witness testimony if the dental personnel should be charged with any maltreatment."
BY DR. RATZ:
Q. Would you please tell us something about the statement by this man?
A. One day when I left the dental station and I wanted to go home I saw in the camp an inmate who seemed known to me. I walked up to him and I knew him so well that no mistake was possible, and I asked him what his name was and where he came from. He told me that he was a fellow Bad Homburgian of mine. I knew him because he lived just around the corner from me. I asked him why he was in the camp. He told me that he had made a remark which he should not have made, but I could not get any more precise details from him.
I told him, "Well, well, well, why should you be sent to a concentration camp for a thing like that?" And I told him that he should come and see me in the dental station. He turned up one day and I treated him and gave him a set of false teeth -- which I would have given to anybody else as well, of course. I did not volunteer to do this service in the concentration camp. I was sent there, and I regarded it as my duty as a dentist to help as much as possible.
Q. Witness, therefore, you did not treat Feissel because he was also a native of Bad Homburg?
A Not at all. I gave the same treatment to all the other inmates.
Q I would like to ask you about the statements made by the witness about the attitude taken by dentists, that it was a fair, decent, conscientious and kind --even helpful one. Does that describe your principles as dentists towards your patients correctly?
A I believe so, certainly. I think that the Dental Service most certainly was expected to follow that attitude. I also talked to the inmates who worked in the dental stations and asked what I could do to make their lives as inmates easier for them I did.
Q Witness, you left Dachau at one point and as a head dentist you vrent to the WVHA as the predecessor of Dr. Pook. Under whom were you at that time?
A The dentists, as such as I said before, were all under three types of superior agencies, three superior officers, that is, as far as their professional activities were concerned, to Office D-III. They were under the then Main Department I-C in the Medical Office in the Office XIV, as it was called later, of Office Group D of the Main Operational Office. As far as the medical side was concerned, I was under the Chief of Office D-III, Lolling, and in military and disciplinary matters I was also under Lolling. Lolling's position was such that he was a commanding officer. Therefore he was my military superior.
Q Witness, what was you task as a head dentist? Were you a chief dentist?
A No. There was no such thing as a chief dentist in the SS. My task was professional supervision of the dental stations under the WVHA, the dental stations, in the commandt's office and also the dental stations of the inmates. It was an agency, so to say, which reached Office XIV. It was an intermediary between Office XIV and the dental stations in Office Group D. I was later on again a head dentist with the corps, the 4th Armored Corps. There again that position was merely meant as a concentration point for incoming reports to be passed on to the Medical Office and as a distribution center for orders which came from the Medical Office for the various dental stations.
This merely meant that work should be facilitated.
Q What was your special activity as a leading dentist in Office D-III?
A My task in that job was to concentrate and pass on the monthly reports, professional checks, on the stations, and to pass on the correspondence between the dental to the medical office and vice versa, from the medical office to the individual stations.
Q You made applications for dentures?
A Yes, I made such applications. They reached us. Those concerning inmates I worked on myself, whereas the applications for dentures for SS non went to the medical office.
Q Now, in Office D-III, that is to say, you as leading dentist, were there any reports which reached you form the dental stations about the removal of gold teeth?
A Yes, such reports reached us. They came in, some of them, from individual stations about extraction of dental gold, but many camps sent us a "failure" report to the effect that no dental gold had been extracted. The gold itself was not sent to D-III, but on the administrative channel it was sent to Berlin, but I don't know where. All I know is that when in October, 1942, I joined D-III, I asked questions in the medical office about these gold reports, because at the time I thought that the gold went to the medical office, but I was told that the gold would go through the administrative channel, from the dentists to the administrative offices. Only the reports about the gold would continue to be sent to Office XIV.
Q Were the quantities reported big or small?
A The reports were so small -- and in so many cases they were negative reports -- which, of course, I read -- that I was not struck by anything peculiar. The assumption did not seem obvious that mass extermination or mass executions had been carried out.
Q Would the leading dentists, that is, you, give orders about extraction of dental gold to camp dentists or, at least, about the supervision of this process?
A The leading dentists had no right to issue orders and therefore did not give any orders.
The dentists, that was the same probably in all agencies, were regarded by the medical doctors as the fifth wheel to a car. Any doctor would be highly indignant if a dentist would give him orders. Therefore, we were not in a position to give orders or instructions. That was the business of the professional agency, namely, Office XIV. They were in a position to do so but the leading dentist was not.
Q What about orders for material, drugs, and instruments?
A Reports about material, reports about instruments and drugs were again sent along on the official channel from the dentists through the camp doctors to Lolling in D-III and he had to sign the reports. After that they went from Lolling's agency on to Office XIV. There they were processed and passed on for delivery to Main Medical Depot of the Waffen SS.
Q As a leading dentist you also dealt with the applications for dentures for inmates. What were the principles you observed there?
A Permission to issue dentures for inmates was granted on the same principle as for the Waffen SS or for the civilian sectors. Every dentist, not only in the Waffen SS, but in free practice, there existed an order which was published in the professional journals that dentures could be manufactured only in certain cases and only to a certain extent. If those conditions were observed, the application was granted.
Q What type of dentures did you grant?
A Firm and removable dentures were manufactured in the shape of paladon, palapont, and silka. Palapont is artificial material, a highly modern type of material, which is also being used in the United States, and, also rubber, and in certain cases, steel was used, whenever it was possible. It was not always possible, of course, and it could only be granted in cases where it was possible.
Q As a leading dentist, you gave professional advice to the Office Chief of D-III. In what respect and how did you do it, in detail?
A What I did, generally, was that Lolling would not stand for being given too much advice. If he didn't understand something and he needed an expert, he would come and ask for advice, which happened, for instance, when equipment had to be repaired.