A: I don't quite see how the whole connection is. Would you give me some time to think it over? I have no idea whatsoever about it. Let's see: This probably does not stand for SD, Security Service. It probably stands for Medical Service -- the same initials. It could not be SD Main Office.
Q: What could SD in the Medical Service indicate? That seems rather novel. SD, Medical Service -- what would that be?
A: It could be the Medical Main Office. I can't understand it either.
Q: You do see, however, that under 12 you are listed as belonging to the SD or being associated with it? Isn't it indicated there under current number 12?
A: Yes, indeed. May I make a statement about this, please?
Q: Go right ahead.
THE PRESIDENT: To answer the question, of course.
A: During that time -- that is, in 1939 -- I was a member of the Sanitaetsoberstaffel I Spree as a dentist. That was my last position which I had within the Reiter-SS. It is a Medical Special Group I/Spree. I would like to explain the whole thing. All those dentists who were members of the mounted units at that time were all compiled into one single medical squadron. I was a member of the Medical Special Squadron I/Spree. That particular squadron dealt with the dental supply for the Reiter-SS.
Q: Excuse me, witness. Was that on 15 August 1939 that you state you held that position?
A: It could be. I couldn't tell you for sure, however but that was my last official position within the Reiter-SS.
Q: Then you state that this excerpt from the service record is incorrect; that you were actually never associated with the SD?
A: Yes; yes, indeed. I can tell you that to the best of my knowledge I never had anything to do with the SD.
Q: Could you tell me your SS service number?
A: Well, I don't recall the number very well. I believe it is 155,000, and I see here 155,870. That is correct.
Q: What was your highest rank in the Allgemeine-SS?
A: Untersturmfuehrer.
Q: When did you become a member of the Waffen SS?
A: On 1 October 1940.
Q: And the highest rank you held in that organization was Obersturmbannfuehrer?
A: Yes, Obersturmbannfuehrer.
Q: You were promoted to that rank in March 1942; that is correct, is it not?
A: In April 1942.
Q: And in August 1943 you were transferred to Amt D-III of the WVHA; that is correct, is it not?
A: End of August 1943, yes, that is correct.
Q: It is true, is it not, that after your call-up to the Waffen-SS you discontinued your private practice in Berlin?
A: I did continue my private practice as long as I was active in Berlin, and I worked in the evenings and also on Sundays. I even continued that activity when I was working in Oranienburg. That was when I was a member of the WVHA, and I continued that activity to as large an extent as I could. It was only when I belonged to some field unit and was not in Berlin or in Germany and during the first few weeks of my basic training in Hamburg that I could not continue my practice.
Naturally, I did not continue my practice to the same extent that I did before. I could treat only a very few patients.
Q: Your practice was very much curtailed? After your assignment to Amt D-III of the WVHA, you not only worked in Oranienburg, but you lived there also, did you not; you slept there; you stayed in Oranienburg?
A. Yes, I had a room within the dental station at Oranienburg. I spent quite a few nights out there, but I often returned to Berlin, particularly on Sundays. That is, I continued my practice as much as I could, of course, if only to a very small extent.
Q. To whom did your transfer orders directing you to the WVHA issue? In other words, who were you directed to report to in Amt D-III of the WVHA?
A. Mr. Prosecutor, I don't quite know how to understand the question. You mean report on dental matters?
Q. Who was the reporting authority contained in the orders which transferred you for duty to Amt D-III of the WVHA?
A. That was Office XIV, dental service within Amtsgruppe D of the Operational Main Office.
Q. At that time you were directed to report to Lolling, were you not?
A. Yes, Dr. Lolling was my medical superintendent, and I had to report to him, yes.
Q. And you were to assume duties as the dentist in charge as of September, 1943, that is correct, is it not?
A. My title was the leading dentist with the chief of Office DIII. I was the technical superior of all the concentration-camp dentists, and I had to advise Lolling on dental matters, and as an expert I had to deal with all the dental cases which came up, as an expert.
Q. Witness, I didn't ask you what were your duties in Amtsgruppe D. I simply asked you whether or not you were directed to report then, and as a matter of fact you did report in September of 1943 as dentist in charge, that is correct, is it not?
A. I already reported to him towards the end of August, because I had already been transferred toward the end of August. But then I took leave again, because I came back from a field unit, and I actually started my official position towards the middle of September.
Q. How long did you remain in the capacity as dentist in charge in Amt D-III? It is true, is it not, that you enjoyed that position until the capitulation, until the end of the war?
A. It was the 15th of April, that is between the 15th and the 16th of April, I was evacuated from Oranienburg, together with others, and we were the first ones from Amtsgruppe D who left Oranienburg.
Q. During your duties in Amt D-III, you had quite a few occasions to hear of Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, did you not?
A. I have heard the name several times.
Q. In what connection did you hear the name of Pohl mentioned?
A. I only heard about him in conversations once in a while, and sometimes I saw Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl walk into the house, or when he drove up with his car, but I didn't know him.
Q. Did you have any personal contacts with him?
A. No, I didn't. I only met him here. I only met him here personally in this jail. I only knew him from sight.
Q. Then upon entering the WVHA you did not meet Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl?
A. No, because he was in Berlin, and Amtsgruppe D was in Oranienburg.
Q. Witness, I would like you to tell me something about your immediate superior, Standartenfuehrer Lolling. You were a collaborator of his. As you have just stated here this afternoon, you were his personal adviser. What can you tell me about the character of this man?
A. I was his personal consultant in dental matters. I have already testified here in this trial during the direct examination about his character, that Lolling didn't have, I would like to say, a good character. He was a morphinist; and he drank quite a lot. That in itself went to show that he didn't have a firm character. He was not very much esteemed within Amtsgruppe D. Nobody actually respected him, and he suffered very much under those conditions. As I heard, I don't quite recall when it was, he was to be transferred from his position. However, as I was told, Gluecks kept him back.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Why ask him so much about Lolling, these details?
MR. HIGGINS: Your Honor, I think it is quite important to know something of the character of this man, rather to inquire fully into the character of this man, because he was the chief of Amtsgruppe D-III. He was the person responsible for the hundreds of thousands of inmates who were interned in these concentration camps. He was a medical man, and if things were in order you would think that a man enjoying that position would be a person that was capable and respected, and who was known for his desires to benefit humanity so to speak.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Proceed.
BY MR. HIGGINS:
Q. Is that all you can tell me about this man Lolling?
A. I am of the opinion that from the medical standpoint he wouldn't have been very efficient, because he didn't practice at all. He had a deputy for that type of work. I don't know, Mr. Prosecutor, what else you want to know.
Q. Well, there is no question in your mind is there, Witness, that this man, Lolling, was responsible for the medical care of the inmates in concentration camps? That was his job, to see that the inmates were well cared for?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you say that he was a sadist?
A. Yes, that was his task.
Q. What do you know of his private tattoo collection? You have heard undoubtedly, and I am asking you now when you first learned about it.
A. I never heard anything about tattooings. I only heard about it here for the first time in this trial, and I never saw anything of the kind in his office.
Q. How close was his office to yours? You were both in the same building in Oranienburg, were you not?
A. As I stated before, during the day I was in the garrison dental station, which was at a distance of approximately one kilometer from the house of Amtsgruppe D within the enclosure of the barracks, and once in a while I was there in my own office within Office D-III. Lolling had an office of his own, but for most of the time he was in the office next door where his first clerk was. I only went to that office once in a while in order to see if here was any mail for me.
Q. Concerning the amount of time you spent in the office in Oranienburg, I intend to devote a little time to that later. I just want to establish the fact that you were on occasions in Lolling's office, were you not? You came to see Lolling. He sent for you when he needed your advice in certain dental matters, and you came there and you spoke to him?
A. Yes, yes, indeed.
Q. How did you feel serving under such a man as Lolling? Didn't you realize some feeling of repugnance considering yourself a subordinate to such an individual?
A. Mr. Prosecutor, I stated before that due to all these bad conditions on one hand and due to the little work which I had here, on the other hand, I tried to resign from Office D-III, very soon after my transfer, because I wanted to practice as a dentist. All of those things, and particularly my personal relationship to Lollong, contributed to the fact that I tried to find a different assignment as soon as I could.
Q. You say you wished to be relieved of your position because you wished to practice dentistry. Haven't you been telling us all along that the greatest amount of your time was spent doing that very thing, haven't you stated that?
A. Yes, indeed, and that was the only possibility for me to work at all, just through that activity in the garrison dentistry.
Q. Why do you say that your prime reason for wishing to be transferred was because you wished to practice dentistry?
A. Mr. Prosecutor, I have stated before that I had a dental station of my own in Berlin, and I was in charge of that clinic. That clinic consisted of twenty-six rooms. Four additional dentists were working with me, five technicians, and about eight auxiliary female helpers. They were all working with me. The garrison dentistry in Oranienburg, compared with that was rather small because it only had two working places.
Q. Witness, excuse me one moment. Upon asking a question, I wish you would just answer the question I ask instead of going off into different fields. It takes a great deal of time, and if you will just answer the question I ask instead of going off into different fields. It takes a great deal of time, and if you will just answer the question that I ask then I am sure we will get along much better.
You stated you did attempt to resign from your position as dental advisor to Lolling and as dental supervisor of concentration camps?
A. Yes, indeed.
Q. How great an effort did you make to resign? We have heard statements, rather statements are before this Court for individuals associated in the medical and dentists profession who attempted to resign and suc ceeded. Your predecessor in office Reuter, was one of those individuals. He became dissatisfied with Lolling, and he secured his resignation from there. Greunuss resigned working under Lolling, and he too secured a transfer. How was it these individuals were able to effect a transfer from their respective offices and you were not?
A. My predecessor Reuter remained in that particular position as long as I did. He did not succeed either to leave earlier, and I actually succeeded in doing so in the autumn of 1944, by carrying through my transfer without Lolling knowing about it. Then when the permission for transfer came from the medical office, Lolling was quite angry about it. That was the reason, of course, my not telling him anything about my transfer, that due to his despotic attitude, he tried everything he could in order to cancel this transfer. At any rate I tried to leave and my transfer was canceled. I could not do anything against it.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
He was aggravated because I went over his head. I tried to get away with it, but the whole thing was annulled. I couldn't do a thing about it.
Q In other words, you did not succeed in transferring from D-3? Yes or no.
A No, not at that moment.
Q What did you know of the Euthanasia program that was carried out under Lolling's direction?
A Mr. Prosecutor, I have already stated that at that time when the Euthanasia program was going on in full swing I was not a member of the WVHA or of Office D-3. I know nothing at all about it, and I saw it from the documents here about all those things that were going on.
Q You did not know of his implication in sterilization and castration either then? Is that right?
A No, I never knew anything about it. I didn't even know the persons nor their names who carried out these experiments. I only found out about those names here in the Medical Trial.
Q It is true, is it not, witness, that you inspected concentration camps on orders issued by Lolling?
A Yes, indeed.
Q He issued the order to you to inspect these camps, and you inspected them and made reports on them, did you not?
A I have to state here that I didn't visit the camps themselves. I only had permission to visit the dental stations within those camps. I have stated that fact also before, that Lolling was actually against my traveling all the time. I have repeated that here several times; namely, that I succeeded in actually getting my travel orders. It was part of my task, you see, to visit those dental stations.
Q Witness, I am very much interested in knowing how you were able to inspect dental stations located in concentration camps without Court No. II, Case No. 4.visiting the camps.
How were you able to do that?
A No; I did not say so. Of course I did have to enter the protective custody camp; however, there were certain regulations concerning that visit. I was not to enter the camp all by myself, and I could only visit the dental station.
Q I did not ask you whether or not you were able to visit the concentration camps all by yourself; I just asked you how you were able to inspect dental stations located in concentration camps without visiting the concentration camps. You have stated previously that you inspected concentration camps and dental stations--but you did not visit concentration camps. Now, I was very much interested in knowing how that is to be done. I believe it is an impossibility.
You have stated that the dental stations were located in the protective custody camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Let him answer your questions, Mr. Higgins. You have got him on the point of the question--then you drop him.
MR. HIGGINS: I did not realize that I dropped him, Your Honor.
A The dental stations, generally speaking, were in those barracks where the dispensary was for the inmates. Those barracks were not in the middle of the camp, but they were usually at the edge of the camp, or often right near the entrance. I can only tell you about those things which I saw myself. I only saw very few of them. Now, for instance, I can tell you something about the camp of Sachsenhausen; the way it was there was the following. When you entered through the gate you had that large parade ground. Right behind the parade ground, you had the barracks, the dispensary, and also the dental station, therefore, was the very first barracks to your left. When I entered this dental station, I didn't see anything at all about the living barracks in the camp; I only saw them from a distance of about 100 hundred meters--but not close-up. And the same as in this particular case here applied to all the other camps. That is the only way it can be explained, that if one entered the dispensary for the dental station Court No. II, Case No. 4.one didn't have to see about the activities in the camp or the barracks themselves.
I can tell you from my time when I was interned in Neuengamme that the dental station which existed there and where I worked during my internment time, was also actually on the edge of the camp, right near the entrance; while the living barracks were also at quite some distance on the left-hand side of the parade grounds. One didn't have to actually see them; one couldn't see them.
Q Then, you state that, like Sachsenhausen, all other concentration camps that you visited had the dental stations nearly located on the left side of the gate as you entered, is that right?
A No; I don't say that all of them are like that. I gave you Sachsenhausen as an example.
Q And no concentration camps at all had the dental stations located right in the middle of the concentration camp?
A I only saw a very few of them, and I can't recall how the location was in all cases, at least not as far as those small camps, those outside camps are concerned.
Q Excuse me, we will give you an opportunity to tell us about the location of the dental stations in all those concentration camps you visited, in time. I would like to ask you now whether or not you had a pass which entitled you to enter concentration camps on dental inspections--that is, a general pass which permitted this. Your predecessor in Office, Reiter, had one. Can you tell me whether or not you had one too?
A Yes, I did have such a pass signed by Gluecks that I was entitled to enter the concentration camps for inspection of the dental stations, but that was not a general permission; it was more of a pass, an identification actually which had been written out just "in case." If I didn't have my travel orders and my visit had not been announced in advance, I couldn't just enter the camp.
I can recall having gone to the concentration camp of Sachsenhausen on two occasions when I was not allowed to enter the Komnandantur Court No, II, Case No. 4.area with that pass of Gluecks.
That is, that area where the SS administration was located. And, of course, not to mention the protective custody camp. In order to go to the barber shop, I was assigned an orderly; a soldier had to escort me.
Q But, as you stated in the preliminary, you did have a pass which entitled you to enter concentration camps for the purpose of inspections of dental stations located there. That is right, is it not?
A Only dental stations--yes.
Q In carrying out these inspections of dental stations you traveled frequently in the company of Burger, did you not?
A No; I didn't go on one single official trip with Burger. I always went alone, and I went with Lolling on one or two occasions.
Q What does Rammler mean when he states that you visited the concentration camps and went on official trips with Burger? You remember his stating that, don't you? Rammler was the First Sergeant in the headquarters' company in Amtsgruppe D. He stated that he issued passes to you and Burger.
A No, Mr. Prosecutor, Rammler could not issue the passes for the trips--only when the trip was over-
Q Excuse me-
A In order to enter all those things into the record he received those passes back.
Q What I meant was he facilitated your trip. You cleared with him prior to making trips?
A No, I didn't. No; Rammler didn't even know when I left. As far as the travel orders and the tickets were concerned for the train--they were written out by Lolling, and Rammler had nothing to do with that.
Q He had nothing whatsoever to do with it?
A With writing out the passes--no. Nothing at all.
Q And he had nothing whatsoever to do with matters where officers from your office were traveling? He had nothing to do with Court No. II, Case No. 4.travel orders or clearances?
Wasn't he the clerk? Wasn't that just his job?
A Well, if he had anything to do with that, if, for instance, one of our clerks wanted to go on an official trips from Office D-3, I really can't tell you. But, as far as the officers were concerned, that is Lolling or myself for instance, Rammler had nothing to do with it.
Q You visited the Mauthausen concentration camp, did you not?
A Yes, indeed. Immediately after my transfer to Office D-3, Lolling had something to do in Mauthausen and the first trip which I took was together with him to Mauthausen.
Q How about subsequent trips--you visited it subsequently, did you not?
A I never did visit Mauthausen again; it was the only time.
Q Didn't you visit this camp in January of 1944?
A Yes; Mauthausen...let's see--January, 1944. I can't tell you the exact date.
Q And will you tell me again with whom this trip was made?
A Together with Lolling.
Q And while there you spoke with the dentists in that camp, did you not?
A Yes, indeed.
Q What was the name of that dentist? Was it Grick?
A No; he had two names. That dentist had two names, and I just can't remember it. Let's see-
Q It is not that important.
A I just can't think of it at the moment.
Q How were conditions in Mauthausen when you visited it in January, 1944?
A.- I can't recall the conditions there very well. All I know is that we arrived towards the evening, that is to say, late in the afternoon and that shortly after our arrival I met the dentists there and then we stayed in the dentists' station within the area of the Kommandantur.
Q.- You say you spent the evening there?
A.- We spent the evening in the officers' mess and ate there and sat there together for a little while.
Q.- What did you talk about during your evening stay at Mauthausen?
A.- I really couldn't give you any details today. All I can recall is that Lolling together with the commandant of the camp, together with other people, went into a corner of the room and started playing cards. That's all I can remember.
Q.- You didn't talk about conditions of inmates or dental gold or experiments of any sort?
A.- Nothing was discussed about that in my presence. At the dental station where we spent a few hours together in the evening I spoke with the dental officers about all sorts of dental matters, supplies, installations, etc. We spoke about those things but only in the dental station.
Q.- What did your dentists have to say about the extraction of gold from the teeth of deceased inmates?
A.- I can't recall that we ever talked about anything like that at the time. I really can't tell you.
Q.- You visited the Buchenwald Concentration Camp also, didn't you, on one of your tours of inspection?
A.- Yes, I was in Buchenwald too on one occasion.
Q.- When was this trip taken?
A.- I can't tell you that for sure. I was there probably twice because I remember that during my first trip I had the opportunity to go to the camp Nordhausen/Dora the same evening and the second time when I was in Buchenwald it was March 1945, I had the opportunity to go to Ohrdruf.
Q.- That was in the spring of 1945, wasn't it, that second trip?
A.- Yes, it must have been in the spring because I recall that we had driven from Buchenwald to Nordhaussen in our car and that the roads up in the higher places still had ice on them.
Q.- Who was the commandant of that camp at that time, at the time of your second trip?
A.- What camp do you mean?
Q.- Buchenwald Concentration Camp.
A.- Buchenwald, as far as I can recall it was Pister.
Q.- And on the inspection of your dental stations you visited the Protective Custody Camp, did you not?
A.- No, I didn't visit the Protective Custody Camp, Together with Dr. Abraham I went to the Dental Stations by the shortest route, and went through the dental stations there.
Q.- In Buchenwald ?
A.- Yes, in Buchenwald.
Q.- At that time you knew that people were dying there by the thousands, frightful numbers?
A.- No, I didn't know that at the time.
Q.- You didn't know that people were being atrociously treated, subject to malnutrition and extermination programs?
A.- I told you before, Mr. Prosecutor, that I didn't notice any such thing during my visits, because my visits happened during the day and during the day time all the inmates had left the camp for work so the camp was actually empty and on those short visits which actually didn't last over 15 to 20 minutes in the Dental Stations I certainly couldn't notice any such thing.
Q.- I would not call these visits to the concentration camps short, when you had stated previously that you had spent the evenings in the concentration camps after you completed the inspection of the Dental Stations.
I could not believe you would be so poorly informed when you tell us that you conferred with the concentration camp commandants, that you conferred with the dentists in the concentration camps, and that row spoke to various inmates in concentration camps. Added to this fact that you made visits of inspection seeking information I find it difficult to believe that you were unable to tell the conditions in the camp. Isn't it a fact, witness, that conditions of the inmates in the concentration camp are indicated by the condition of the teeth? A person in poor health for a extended time has poor teethy, does he not. You know that as a dentist. If nothing more than that you should have known that?
A.- Mr. Prosecutor, I never did work at a camp myself. I didn't take a look at the teeth of the inmates. I didn't beat inmates. That's why I couldn't say that and I really never did have any long conferences with the concentration camp commandant not did I stay with them a long time. And as you just stated - when I was in the concentration camp for a long time I was not in the Protective Custody Camp but in the Kommandantur. That's in the administrative area. I never had any conversations with the commandants, they had no time for that.
Q.- You told us, witness, on direct examination today that you were very well informed on the treatment of inmates in the Dental Stations. You stated categorically that you knew that inmates were very well treated in your stations, and you made visits as you say here. Certainly you must have known of conditions of the people that were treated in your dental stations, isn't that so?
A.- No, that isn't so. During my visits I could see that they had special files for every inmate and it stated what had been done, fillings, extractions, etc. However, it didn't state in that record if ho was undernourished, if suffering from any other disease. I couldn't see that from those records and as I stated before I didn't take care of the inmates personally because I never worked in the camp.
Q.- It is nevertheless incredible to believe that as a result of your visit in the spring of 1945 to Buchenwald that you did not know of the conditions there really, although you entered into the camp. The Prosecution has presented a document........
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, don't argue the whole case to the witness, save something for the Tribunal. I suggest that you resort to questions rather than trying to persuade the witness that you are right.
MR. HIGGINS: Very well, your Honor.
Q.- Would you tell me then, witness, how many times you visited the Ohrdruf Labor Camp III?
A.- I was in Ohrdurg on one occasion between 12-15 March 1945. I can't tell you the exact date.
Q.- The Prosecution has introduced the affidavit of Greunuss who was the camp physician at Ohrdrug. He stated that upon your orders the inmates of concentration camps were inhumanely treated, that is that the only treatment authorized was extraction without anesthesia. That statement is correct, is it not? Did you not issue that order?
A.- No, I didn't, Mr. Prosecutor. I already stated during my direct examination about all those charges made by Dr. Greumuss and I can't tell you anything more than in direct examination.
Q.- Can you tell me this, then, why do you believe he would delibarately make such a statement if it were not true?
A.- I just can't understand it. I told you before that I tried to find an explanation. I don't know Greunuss at all except for that short period of time I was there. The only explanation I find about this is that I was a Witness of heated conversations between his direct superior that is, the camp physician of Buchenwald and himself. I was not the only witness of those heated conversations. Dr. Abrahams was also present and Scholz too, I believe. That's the only way I can understand that he said such a thing. These statements do not correspond to the truth. I really can tell you that to be the best of my conscience.
Q.- And Dr. Scholz and Dr. Abraham stated that Greunus is wrong, that you did not make that statement?
A.- I didn't have any authority to issue such orders.
Q.- I just asked you whether or not that was stated by Scholz and Abraham They stated that you did not make that statement to Greunuss, did they not?
A.- Yes. Scholz and Abraham can confirm the fact that I never made such a statement nor did I ever issue such an order because they were around me all the time. Apart from that if I had issued such an order the dentist at Ohrdruf would have known about it, at the same time his direct superior Dr. Abraham of Buchenwald. It really can't be seen why such an order was issued for Ohrdruf only and then I just can't see why such an order would have been issued as late as between 12-15 of March 1945, when two weeks later the American Troops took over the camp.
Q.- Dr. Abraham made the statement that the dental staff at Buchenwald was inadequate to care for the 20 to 30,000 inmates who were stationed there. Do you agree with this statement by Dr. Abraham?
A.- Dr. Abraham said that these three places for treatment in the station for inmates at Buchenwald were sufficiently large enough to take care of all the inmates who were there during the time when the camp was occupied normally. Only in 1945 when all the other camps were evacuated due to the approach of the Allied Troops and when everything was concentrated in central Germany,in Thuringia, and mostly in Buchenwald. At that time Buchenwald had the double number of inmates it had at the beginning. Only at that particular moment the dental care with the three dental stations and the three dentists was no longer insufficent. As I said that was in 1945, I believe in February, when all agencies were all upside down - and nobody did know what was going to happen.
Q.- Then you state that the only time that such a condition existed that inmate were not properly cared for as a result of inadequate faci lities, was during the evacuation of concentration camps or the approach of the Allies, otherwise they were well staffed and well equipped.
Yes or no, that question I believe, can be answered with yes or no.
A.- Mr. Prosecutor, you can't just answer that with yes or no, I already stated during my direct examination that towards the end of 1944 certain difficulties arose due to the fact that a large number of outside camps were established with various enterprises. The dental care of all inmates of those branch camps was still pretty good though difficult. The trouble started when the camps evacuated and others overcrowded during the year of 1945.
THE PRESIDENT: We will recess, Mr. Higgins.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
HERMANN POOK---Resumed CROSS EXAMINATION----Continued.
BY MR. HIGGINS:
Q. At the recess, witness, we were involved in a short tour of the concentration camps which you visited on tours of inspection. Now, my next question is this: Would you please tell me about your visits to the Ravensbruck concentration camp?
A. I have not quite understood your question, Mr. Prosecutor. I don't know what to say.
I visited Ravensbruck on one occasion. That must have been in the fall of 1943, and I visited this camp together with my predecessor. At the time we went from Oranienburg to Ravensbruck by car. The distance was not very great. Later,on, in the course of the year 1944 I visited Ravensbruck once more. If I recall correctly however, I did not enter the protective custody camp on my second visit, but I visited only the SS dental station within the headquarters area there. I can not give you the reasons any more for my visit at that time.
Q. You do not remember that your visit was for the purpose of conducting inspections of the dental clinics located there?
A. The first time in the fall of 1943, yes, when I visited the camp with my predecessor. At the time the dental station was to be transferred to another barracks so that the inmates of the men's camp, could be treated there, and on that occasion we inspected the new area and the new barracks where the new dental station was to be located.
Q. Who was the camp dentist there at that time? Do you remember the name of the dentist who was there?
A. Yes. As far as I know, the dentist Hellinger was already there at the time.