A.- When I entered the Office D II the later SS Standartenfuehrer Maurer was the chief of that office. On 15 January 1945, Maurer went to a combat unit. He was then succeeded until the Office D II was dissolved by SS Standartenfuehrer Moser.
Q.- Who were the experts in the Office D II?
A.- Only in the course of the summer 1942, were these special fields of the office D II occupied with special experts. I myself dealt with the question of the labor allocation of inmates. That was D II/1. D II/2 was handled by Oberfuehrer Stumpff. Until the spring of 1943, he was in charge of it. Later on he was transferred to another unit. Then this entire field was dissolved. The field D II/3, which was statistics and accounting, was directed by Obersturmfuehrer Gast, who later on was replaced by Oberscharfuehrer Staufeneck.
Q.- Now that you have described the field of tasks of the office D II, I should like you to tell the Tribunal very briefly what you yourself had to do in the office D II.
EXAMINATION BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q.- Before you leave the Exhibit 87, which is Gluecks' order to the concentration camp commanders, I want to inquire about it. Do you have it there?
A.- Well, that is Exhibit 87, your Honor?
Q.- Document 2167, the letter from Gluecks.
A.- Yes.
Q.- Dated the 20th of February.
A.- Yes, your Honor.
Q.- Is it your contention or your opinion that following this letter the entire matter of allocation of inmate labor was transferred to the concentration camp commanders?
A.- Your Honor, the Protective Custody Camp Officer E, who until then had been subordinated to the Inspector of Main Department I/5, left, and the camp commander was charged with the responsibility for the allocation of labor.
The direction of the allocation of labor in basic matters continued to remain with Gluecks. Later on it was transferred to the Office D II. It was in instrument of Pohl for the allocation of labor.
Q.- Gluecks and Office D II retained control over basic policy; that wasn't given up to the concentration camp commanders, was it?
A-. Your Honor, when Gluecks issued this order the Office D II was not yet in existence. The Office D II was established about three months later. However, the basic direction was done by Office D II, Pohl. Amt D II took care of that work for Pohl.
Q.- But the basic control was retained by Gluecks and later by Office D II?
A.- The basic approval for the furnishing of a detachment of inmates was transferred to Gluecks and later on to Pohl. However, in certain cases Pohl gave D II the possibility of issuing that approval.
Q.- That explains it.
BY DR. BELZER:
Q.- Witness, I now want to repeat my request and ask you to describe to the Tribunal briefly your own field of tasks within the office D II.
A.- I have already stated that I was charged with the field D II/1 which is the allocation of inmates. The field of allocation of inmates represents a part of the tasks of the Office D II. I myself had to get accustomed slowly to the work because I had to deal with completely new matters here which I had not dealt with when I was working with the DEST. In the first time of my activity in the Office D II Maurer frequently took me to negotiations with Berlin agency so that I would be able to get an insight into the subject-matter. The way the procedure was followed, of course, varied. However, from my field of work I can substantially state the following:
The mail arrived from the mail receiving center. It was sent to my desk opened, and I put the stamp of the top secret matters. These came in a sealed envelope, and I had to pass them on, leaving them closed. Where a letter arrived to which we had already had a reference then I had to look it up in the registry. Then I would submit to Maurer all the mail that had arrived and also submit the file if such a file existed. Or, I had to give him a short report on the subject-matter in case we had a big file on it.
Maurer then would make his decisions and put them down on that particular piece of paper. Or, he would give me some short dictation. Mail which dealt with basic matters he would take into his file so that he could submit it to Pohl also when he had his conference with him. Afterwards I dictated the necessary letters and submitted them to Maurer for his signature. All the mail which was addressed to the concentration camp was sent to the commanders or the Headquarters Labor Allocation if minor matters were concerned. That was the over-all work. In detail I had to take care of all the files with regard to the labor allocation of inmates, with the exception of the file top secret matters or two or three other files which Maurer kept in his wall safe. In addition to that I had to take care of long distance telephone calls. Before Maurer took a trip I had to report his arrival and if there was some delay in his trip I would have to inform the people of his new time of arrival. I also had to receive visitors who came to see Maurer and I had to listen to their requests asked for the procurement of inmates. That is a form which the prosecution Exhibit 362. Every applicant had to make this application; and I had to see to it that every applicant really submitted this application. On the second page of this application form the commander for a detail which was to be newly established -
THE PRESIDENT: What Exhibit number?
A.- It is Exhibit Number 362, your Honor, located in Document Book XIII, on page 94 in Document Book XIII. On the second page of this application form the camp commander had to certify that these inmates would be procured or that they could not be furnished.
Thus, when the camp commander raised any objections, then the Office D II had to see to it that a new examination was made of the availability of the inmates, or it had to agree with the commander and refuse to furnish the inmates. Therefore, the commander had to explain what the accommodations for the inmates were to be like; how the food was to be furnished; and so on.
I have dealt with this document a little more in detail in view of the testimony of the former camp commandant at Buchenwald. He has stated in this affidavit that he as a camp commandant did not have any influence on the labor allocation of inmates. After a firm had filled in this form and sent it to the camp commandant and he had endorsed it, this form was sent to Office D-2, and after Bohl had given the basic approval of the furnishing of inmates, the order was then issued by Maurer. I had to work on this request from an administrative point of view. The commandant of the camp at first had to give us a detailed report, daily and later on every two weeks on the labor assignment of the inmates in this particular concentration camp. The Prosecution has also submitted this document as Exhibit NO. 364 in Document Book No. 13, as Document NO 1961. According to the necessities of the labor assignments I had to evaluate this report. The Office D-2 received this report of all tasks of the Reich territory, and from the concentration camp at Herzogenbusch which was located in Holland. From the camps in the General Government, and in the Baltic countries, the Office D-2 did not receive these reports, but it only received a statement from the SS Economist, and then it included the total in the report, which was then submitted to Pohl. The labor Allocation Officer had to certify the correctness of this report, and as an expert, and the camp commander, he also had to sign it. This synopsis shows the entire movement of the inmates which took place on the particular day in a camp. The synopsis which the Prosecution presented did not go to Office D-2, for it is not signed, and furthermore is dated 12 June 1944, when no synopsis was to be submitted to D-2 since they were only submitted on the first or the fifteenth of each month. That is to say, in two week intervals. The inward side of this synopsis showed the total number of inmates in a concentration camp. That is to say, all inmates which were located in a concentration camp itself, and in all the labor assignments which were attached to the concentration camp.
In addition to that the number of persons incapable of working was to be listed on the back and thus the number of inmates who were able to work could be clearly seen in those synopses. The number of inmates who were working in the operation of the camp was also given. This number first amounted to ten percent of the total strength, and later it was limited to only six percent. Then the individual working detachments were listed in a certain prescribed order. At the end the number of skilled workers, and the number of inmates were not used were also listed. The most important skilled professions, and the number of unskilled workers and guards, and other workers were also included. Therefore, this synopsis theoretically showed quite clearly who was using inmates, and how many were being used. I had to constantly supervise these synopses. First of all I had to see where the inmate detachments had been furnished for which no prior approval had been obtained, and, secondly, whether the number of inmates who had been approved for a separate kind of work was not exceeded; thirdly, I had to see to it that the detachments were not furnished any longer than had been specified on the previous order; fourthly, I had to see whether any metal workers were used in the food industry and so on. If any firm needed skilled workers who were idle in the camp, and were not otherwise used, then I had to report this matter to Maurer, who then requested with Glucks the transfer of these inmates to another camp, if their services were needed there, at the camp where the inmates were located, provided that these inmates can not be needed in that particular camp. Later on the so-called classification experts were sent by D-2 in the camp, they were civilian employees, with requirement of the firms who would need the inmates, and they gave tests to the inmates to see whether they were fit for the work for which they applied, so inmates would not be furnished who had stated they were skilled but who in reality had never worked in that particular profession before on the last page of this synopsis the camps had to describe in detail how ever number of inmates who were incapable to work were distributed; how many invalids were there, and how many were in special confinement, and how many inmates were in the camp there who were not occupied.
Then the number of inmates had to be given who were used for work in this camp, and was for the operation of the camp. At the end the camp had to report just what the capacity of the camp was, and that is, including all the branch camps, and what the maximum capacity of these camps was. This synopsis stated exclusively the figures. This synopsis did not show the names or the nationality, or the background of the prisoners, and the reason why they or he was in confinement. This synopsis for me enabled me to submit a report which on the first and fifteenth of every month had to be submitted to pohl and Himmler, and it showed the total number of all inmates of all the concentration camps within the territory of the Reich, and, also in the occupied Eastern territories. From the report, which was submitted to Pohl, it, therefore, could be seen how many inmates were located in all of the concentration camps on the first and on the fifteenth; how many of them were sick, and where and how many of them had been distributed for work in the individual economic industries. Under these groups we must count the construction agencies, the SS Economy Industries, the Armament Industry, the private industries, the was industries, and agriculture. I believe that these were the different industries. After I had compiled these reports, I passed the report on to the Office D-II-3, where a further evaluation took place, but my evaluation had to be carried out very quickly, because the time limits which Himmler and Pohl gave us were very short. There was a very short deadline, as the mail was delayed often because of air raids, and received these synopses at a very late time. However, then we would receive a report of various economy groups by teletype. Later on we received that by courier, as it becomes evident from document NO 1923, which has been presented by the Prosecution, Exhibit No. 552, in Document Book 22, there they reported to Office D-2 which was listed, and that was the only report which was received outside of the regular detachment for procurement of inmate labor.
In Document Book No. 3, as Exhibit No. 64 the Prosecution has presented Document NO 1548, and I would like to make a statement with regard to this document. In the index to this document the following is stated: "Hoess to all concentration camps demands reports to Office D-2 and 3, about the number of executions, deportation, and number of inmates where received special treatment at Auschwitz and so on." However, the document does not show that. The document states the final numbers which the director in charge of the political department had to be submitted and must agree with the report to Offices D-2 and 3 the very same day. The document continues to say that the report from the Protective Custody Camp must be provided with an appendix where amongst other things the special treatment cases in concentration camps Auschwitz are also to be listed. I would like to say briefly just what in my opinion brought about this order of the chief of Office D-1, of which the Office D-2 did not receive any copy. I had already stated that the basis for the report which I had to submit was the synopsis which was submitted by all of the camps. This report had to be submitted on the morning of each day; whereas, apparently, the director of the political department, who also had to submit the report on the very same day, only submitted and compiled his report in the evening. Of course, he also gave consideration to the movement of the prisoners of that day. That is to say, transports which had arrived on that day, could not appear in the report of the labor assignment officer. However, it would appear in the report of the director of the political department, to that both the figures, which were contained in these reports, and which was received by D-2 and D-1, of course, varied.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
As far as I can remember, attention was drawn to that fact in Himmler's agency, and that is what brought about this order.
On the 25th day of each month, the Office D-II had to submit an additional report to Pohl about the labor situation. This report was a written statement on the number of inmates in the various firms and, in part, what work was being done there, and what the production rate of the previous month had been.
Up to approximately the middle of 1943, that is only after the Office D-IV had been dissolved in August of 1942, I furthermore had to keep the lists of the additional rations which the camp commanders had granted to the inmates. An order had been issued, according to which 90 per cent of all inmates were to be issued such rations. The number of normal workers' rations and the number of rations for heavy workers which had been issued had to be reported to Office D-II every month. I kept a list on that, and commanders where the number of heavy workers had not reached 90 per cent, would receive a reprimand.
From the middle of 1944 on I also had courier service between the Speer Ministry and Office D-II. I shall, however, refer to this courier service a little later on.
For a period of time I also had a special assignment to which I shall also refer a little later.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Witness, will you look at Exhibit 64, Document NO 1548. It is in Document Book III, and you referred to it. Who wrote this letter? Liebehenschel?
A It is signed by Liebehenschel, Your Honor. The dictation mark is D I/1. That is the central office. "OT" -- that was Otto. He was a collaborator of Liebehenschel.
Q Our copy does not indicate who wrote the letter, but Liebehenschel was chief of Office D-I, was he not?
A Yes, Your Honor. I beg your pardon. I have just seen that this letter was only written on 13 January 1944. At that time Court No. II, Case No. 4.Hoess was chief of Office D-I. Liebehenschel was no longer there.
Q That is H-O-E-S-S?
A Yes, Your Honor.
Q Under No. 6 at the last of Page 1, the term "special treatment" is used. I think I know, but will you tell me what that means?
A I assume that the word is "Sonderbehandlung"--"special treatment".
Q What does "special treatment" mean? What kind of treatment is "special treatment"?
A Your Honor, I have the impression that in the concentration camps several things were called "special treatment", which always resulted in the death of a person. May I request that I be allowed to refer to this matter again in the course of my testimony?
Q You won't forget it?
A No, Your Honor, I certainly shall not forget it.
BY DR. BELZER:
Q Witness, you have stated that after the mail conference with Maurer you dictated the letters. Did you dictate these letters according to instructions by Maurer, or did you work and deal with them freely?
A The decisions for the individual letters were issued by Maurer. In several cases he would dictate the exact text to me. Almost all of these letters were signed by Maurer. I signed them only when a purely administrative matter was dealt with, as, for example, how a file was to be kept, or something of that sort.
Q You referred to an order according to which 90 per cent of the inmates were to receive the heavy workers' ration. Who had issued that order?
AAs far as I can remember, this order was signed by Pohl. It must have been issued after the Office D-IV was dissolved in July or August 1942. At the time I asked Maurer why only 90 per cent of all inmates were to receive this heavy workers' ration. He told me at the Court No. II, Case No. 4.time that it was feared that the Economic Offices, which had to make the rations for this allocation, would make difficulties and that, therefore, only 90 per cent could be reported to the Economic Offices.
After all, certain prerequisites existed by law for the issuance of such heavy workers' rations, and the inmates who were working did not always fulfill these prerequisites.
Q The Prosecution has presented Document NI 1065 in Document Book 11, Page 59 of the German text. It is contained in Document Book 11 on Page 46 of the English text. It is an affidavit by you, and in this affidavit you call yourself the chief of a main department. How was that?
A In April 1944 I was promoted from Obersturmfuehrer of the Waffen SS--that is to say, first lieutenant in the army, to Haupsturmfuehrer, that is Captain. After this promotion, Maurer told me that I could call myself director of a main department. This would not change my field of work and it would not cause any change in the authority which I had.
Q Will you please describe to the Tribunal briefly the official procedure when a firm requested a certain number of inmates?
A Originally, that is, up to May or June 1944 the procedure which was followed was about the following: If any firm needed any inmates, it would write to the commander of a concentration camp or it would write to Office D-II in the WVHA. There it would request that these inmates should be furnished. If the commander of a concentration camp received such a request, then, without having worked on it and without any notification to the firm, he had to pass it on to Office D-II. Whenever inmates were available, then the chief of Office D-II, Maurer, personally went to see the firm. He would call the competent camp commander for a conference, and then he would discuss with that firm the intended assignment of inmates. He told the firm under what prerequisites inmates would be furnished for labor assignment. If the firm was able and ready to meet the necessary prerequisites-
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
that is to say, to prepare security measures, accommodations, and so on--then Maurer would return to Berlin. He made a report then to Pohl. If Pohl agreed to this assignment of inmates, then the camp commander would receive the appropriate order. The firm was notified, and then it had to make the necessary preparations. As soon as the preparations had been completed, the inmates were furnished for labor.
In the meantime the firm had to make the formal application which I mentioned through the camp commander, and had to submit it to Office D-11. In the case of the economic enterprises, the procedure was in general that the plant manager would channel the request of the firms only to the camp commander, who, at the same time, was the director of the enterprises, and then the matter would be submitted to D-II. From May or June, 1944, all requests of the firms were exclusively, or almost exclusively channeled through the agency of labor assignment in the Speer Ministry. The Speer Ministry made the requests for inmates deal with the plenipotentiary for labor assignment, and would examine the priority of the matter, and then would pass on these requests to Office D-II. D-II then notified the competent camp commander, and he in turn would establish contact with the firm, and then the matter was handled in exactly the same way as I have already described. In this connection I would like to refer briefly to Document NO-1975, which is in Document Book 13 and was presented as Exhibit 363. It is on Page 76 of the English document book. In the index of this document it is stated that this is a letter from the Office D-II in the WVHA to the firm ATG in Leipzig. That is not correct. The letter is from the headquarters of the concentration camp Buchenwald, and it is addressed to the firm ATG. Buchenwald states in that letter that the WVHA had informed Buchenwald of the fact that the firm ATG intended to employ inmates, and that Buchenwald was to submit an appropriate report to D-II. That is part of the procedure which I have previously mentioned.
Q. Witness, of what did your own activity consist in this entire procedure?
A. I had to deal administratively with all matters which were connected with the labor assignment of inmates. That is to say, when such a report arrived from a camp commander, then I had to include the applicant in the list which was submitted to Pohl. After Pohl had made his decision, I had to dictate letters to the camps and to the firms concerned.
I had then to submit them to Maurer for his signature. I have already stated that later on I had to handle the courrier service between our agency and the Speer Ministry. Then I constantly had a plan of the trips of Mauser whenever he was away on a trip. When I received a request from a firm, and Maurer was in the vicinity of that firm, then I would send a teletype to him to visit that particular firm. Then I had to see that the formal requests arrived. That is to say, I had to deal with all work in the office which was connected with the labor assignment of inmates. I did not have any authority, and I could not make my own decisions in these matters.
Q. Witness, in your affidavit of the 22nd of January, 1947, Exhibit 13, document Book I, you state, "I was a member of Office D-II of the WVHA, and in a certain way I had the task of an office chief. Standartenfuehrer Maurer was the Office Chief of D-II. In the end I was Maurer's collaborator, and at the end of 1943 I became his deputy." I want to ask you the following question now. Does your own statement allow to consider you the Deputy Chief of Office D-II?
A. Not in my opinion, no. In my pre-trial interrogation I have stated in detail what brought about my appointment as deputy of Maurer. The situation was as follows : At the end of 1942 or early in 1943 Maurer told me one day that on the occasion of a conference in the WVHA there had been a lot of arguments and a big dispute because a civilian employee of an economic enterprise who, in the absence of his office chief, had participated in that conference, could not give any information about a certain matter. Pohl had been so enreaged about this matter that he saw to it that this man was immediately conscripted as a soldier and transferred. Therefore, he considered it appropriate to appoint a deputy. As his deputy in his absence I constantly had to be present in the office so that whenever Pohl called somebody would be there who could provide him with the necessary information about the labor assignment of inmates. That is what brought about my appointment as the deputy of Maurer. However, I have never been his deputy chief of office, and I have never had any authority to make my own decisions in any matter which was concerned with the labor assignment of inmates.
Q. Could you please make a statement on certain details which show that you cannot be considered the deputy chief of the office with regard to Maurer?
A. My field of work extended solely to the field of D-II/1. Neither the man in charge of D-II/2 nor the man in charge of D-II/3 ever reported to me, nor did they ever ask me for my decisions on matters which were submitted to Office D-II in the absence of Maurer. I could not make any decisions on them, but when these matters were submitted by visitors, the visitors were asked to wait until Maurer had returned, and after Maurer had returned he was informed by me of the matter, and then the visitors were called up by telephone and informed of Maurer's decision.
As his deputy I had to see that the office worked in order. That is to say, I had to see that the agency was occupied in accordance with regulations. Whenever I had to take some official trips, then I received a firmly outlined mission which I had to accomplish. I would receive that from Maurer or Gluecks, and I only had to carry out that particular mission. During my activity in the Office D-II I took approximately ten to fifteen official trips. Of these I took three with a motor vehicle when I had to accompany other persons.
Q. If Maurer had not returned from his trips on Saturday didn't it happen that you would have to bring the mail on Sunday morning to Maurer's apartment?
A. Yes, that is correct, Whenever Maurer was away on an official trip and he was unable to return to Berlin, over the week-end, then I had to bring him all mail which had arrived, on Sunday morning in his apartment. At the same time I had to bring along a stenographer who would then take down the letters, the replies to the other letters. In this connection I can recall that in the fall of 1943 Maurer took about two weeks' leave at the Berghaus Sudelfeld which is located near Bayrischzell.
On a Sunday, in that two-week interval, I had to go to the Sudelfeld with the entire mail which had arrived, and I had to submit all this mail to Maurer for his decision.
Q. Did you participate in any conferences of the commandants?
A. I did not participate in a single one of the commandants' meetings, and I have never reported to Pohl as the deputy of Maurer. The only two occasions when I went to see Pohl during a discussion, that was in March and April of 1945. On these occasions labor allocation of inmates was not discussed at all, but we discussed only evacuation measures which had to be carried out for the agency of the WVHA.
DR. BELZER: Your Honor, do you consider the time appropriate now to call a recess?
THE PRESIDENT: The time is always appropriate to call a recess.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess until 13:45 o'clock.
(A recess was taken until 1345. hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION The hearing reconvened at 1345 hours, 30 June 1947.)
KARL SOMMER - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION - Continued
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
BY DR. BELZER: (Counsel for the defendant Karl Sommer)
Q Witness, were you employed as a civilian in Office D-2, or were you employed there as a member of the Waffen-SS?
A During the first conference which I had with Maurer in Oranienburg, he told me that he intended to use me as a civilian employee in Office D-2. I served as a civilian in office D-2 at first. No salary arrangement was actually made at the beginning, and I received my salary from the DEST. When I finally received my regular pay from D-2, I paid it all back to the DEST. Towards the middle of June, 1942, Maurer told me to my surprise that it was impossible to use me as a civilian employee, and that he had taken the necessary steps to call me up to the Waffen-SS, and to actually take me over in the Waffen-SS according to my rank in the army, an Obersturmfuehrer in the Waffen-SS, a Reserve unit. From the Kommando under which I was subordinated, I was examined by a medical officer there, and then by an SS commission. And then towards the end of June 1942 -- retroactive as of the fifth of May, 1942 -- I was transferred to the Waffen-SS.
Q What was the rank which you had in the Waffen-SS?
A I became Obersturmfuehrer in the Reserve, similar to my rank in the Wehrmacht. That corresponded to the rank of a first lieutenant in the army. That was on the 20th of April, 1944, when I was promoted to Hauptsturmfuehrer, which is a rank of captain in the army.
Q When was it that you were promoted to Sturmbannfuehrer?
A I was never promoted to the rank of Sturmbannfuehrer in the Waffen-SS. My highest rank was Hauptsturmfuehrer -- or captain.
Q What was the uniform which you wore as an SS leader?
A Due to my old wounds it was no longer possible for me to wear the regular uniform; boots, and trousers tucked in the boots. That was the reason why I wore civilian shoes and long trousers at all times. I had the special permission of Gluecks to do so. On special occasions I wore ski trousers, ski boots and a skiing hat, I wore that suit only on very few occasions. I couldn't wear that suit too often because the ski shoes were too heavy; they kept pressing against the scar which was left after the wound healed, and after a little while I could hardly walk.
Q What were your working hours in Office D-2?
A I lived in Berlin Wilmersdorf, and the distance from Berlin to Oranienburg was approximately 40 kilometers. That is, I had to go by train both in the morning and in the evening, which took an hour and a half one way. My official working hours were from eight in the morning to eight in the evening. Actually, I was in the office until seven o'clock p.m. In the morning I had to leave the house at twenty minutes past six and I wouldn't return home before nine o'clock in the evening.
Those were the working hours up to the 23rd of August, 1943. Then I lost my house in Berlin in an air raid, and I moved to Oranienburg. There I worked until about seven o'clock although my work usually lasted until eight or nine o'clock in the evening.
Q What was the result of your economic position as an expert in Office D-2? And that compared with your position in the DEST, the German Earth and Stone Works.
A Maurer promised me that my wages would not be inferior to those I received before. During my first conference which I had with Maurer, it became known to me that the so-called Main Department chiefs would receive approximately 200 marks. I was of the opinion that I also was to receive those 200 marks some day. In effect, I never received them. Those 200 marks were really for expenses.
Up to April 1944 I received the pay of an Obersturmfuehrer -- which corresponded approximately to my pay in the DEST; and after I had been promoted to Hauptsturmfuehrer -- or captain -- I received from 90 to 100 marks in addition to what I received before, per month. During the first few years I was not better off, financially. However, I did have to do more work, and that is with reference to working hours.
Q Did you at any time try to resign from Office D-2, or from Amtsgruppe D? If so, what were the results of your efforts?
A.- It was in the summer of 1943, when it became quite clear to me that I would be nothing but a clerk in Office D-II, nothing but a man with a desk, who had no position of his own. That was the reason why I tried to resign from Office D-II. I spoke to a Dr. Hoffmann, and he told me at the time that if I could possibly be released from Office D-II, he would give me a more or less good position with some German Drug Factory. At the time I asked Maured to please release me. However, I received nothing but a refusal, which was justified by his saying that there was a war on and that everybody had to do his duty, regardless of where he was.
Q.- The reasons why you wanted to withdraw from Office D-II were more of an economic nature, so to say, because you couldn't possibly get an individual position?
A.- Yes, that is correct. I wanted to have an individual position and at the same time I wanted to have a higher salary.
THE PRESIDENT: At the time Maurer took you into the SS in July, 1942, were you a civilian?
WITNESS: Yes, indeed, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Outside of your membership in the Allgemeine SS, you had no connection with the Waffen SS until July, 1942?
WITNESS: No, Your Honor. I was a Reserve Officer of the Army on leave and I was under the supervision of the Army.
THE PRESIDENT: And when you were working in DEST you were a civilian?
WITNESS: Yes, I was a civilian employee.
Q.- From your answer, Witness, I understand that your attempt to withdraw from Office D-II and to be transferred to another office was not caused by the knowledge that your activity in Office D-II was of an immoral nature, an act against the law, perhaps even a criminal action?
A.- No, that was not the reason.
Q.- Did you actually think of something like that?
A.- No.
Q.- The concentration camps, as such, did you think they were criminal installations ?