THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Witness, what were you accused of at the hearing where you were convicted and sent to a concentration camp?
A I am afraid I can hardly hear. I can't hear at all.
Q Can you hear me now? Now you can hear.
A It is better.
Q What were you accused of at the time you were sent to the concentration camp, at the time of the hearing?
A I was accused of having made defeatist remarks against the State. I said that we had lost the war. There was a very long list; I don't know whether I should give you all the details.
Q That is enough. It was for speaking against the Nazi State?
A Yes. I spoke very strongly against it, against its leaders. I thought they were all megalomaniacs; that I disliked the policy of the Third Reich; that I thought it was irresponsible to have described America's war potential as completely wrong. I also said that I regretted that there was no action taken by the Germans in Germany such as had been done in Italy against Mussolini. I said the German generals had let us down; they had been sufficiently powerful to do something against the government.
Q Did you do hard, manual work in the Heinkel factory at Bad?
A Yes; when I went to Bad first I had to do extremely hard work for twelve or fourteen hours a day, standing, which was extremely tiring. After some time I found contact with the engineers of the Heinkel firm to whom I described my situation. They helped me very much in the later course of my incarceration and they make it possible for me to make construction-drawings, which was less exhausting.
Q You said that you were beaten only once....
A Yes.
Q What Aid you do that called for the beating?
A I had done nothing at all. On a very cold winter evening we had to stand outside for hours outside the factory because a few guards had counted wrongly and thought that one of us had escaped - which was later found to be a mistake. But, until we had been counted time and again, hours went by and we were completely frozen stiff. We should have gone home, and couldn't walk as fast as one of the guards - the really evil one among them, the only evil one, the SS-Unterscharfuehrer, hit a few Czech women in front of me. I look at him, and thereupon he abused me and screamed at me: What did I mean by looking at him in that tone of voice? And he beat me.
Q What did he strike you with?
A With his fist, and he kicked me. This Underscharfuehrer is no longer living; the inmates immediately killed him when the Russians approached.
Q You had men guards at Ravensbrueck?
A In Ravensbrueck most of the guards were female SS guards. There were only very few male SS personnel. They, as far as I could find out, did not have anything to do with the inmates. They were really more in charge of administrative offices.
Q What effect did your confinement of a little over a year a year and four months - what effect did it have on your health?
A When I left the camp I was rather exhausted due to the conditions under which our liberation had taken place. It took a long time until I got back to normal. For five weeks I was in the University Clinic of Rostock before I could even think of going back home.
Q You were liberated immediately by the Russians when they overran the camp?
A The Russians did not actually take over the camp. The camp was evacuated when the Russians were fairly close by the camp. We were told to march away and the idea was for us to be taken to Holstein. A large column of inmates walked along the highways. Very slowly this column disintegrated.
Information reached us that at the top of the column Russian tanks had come in, and we used the opportunity to disperse ourselves in the large forests outside Rostock. I then had tremendous difficulties escaping across the Russian lines unscathed until I finally reached Rostock.
Q Now other questions -- You spoke about the death of your husband. Was that before you were sent to Ravensbrueck?
A No, I had already reached Ravensbrueck and the accusation against my husband had been deferred because of airraids; the files were lost, it seemed. He was accused only in March of 1944 when he was interrogated again and proceedings were opened against him. The news about the death of my husband I received only after I had left the concentration camp, which was through the personnel officer of the unit with which he had served, by one of his comrades to whom he had opened his heart and to whom he had disclosed his plan to shoot himself, as no other possibility for him existed, and as in no case did he want to be killed by a death sentence.
Q And that happened while you were in Ravensbrueck, but you didn't find out about it until after you were released?
A Yes, I heard about the death of my husband and my father only after I had left the concentration camp.
CROSS -EXAMINATION BY MR. Higgins:
Q Witness, when did you first come to know that the SS was not to use your words - "an idealistic and blameless organization serving the Reich"?
A When I saw in the concentration camp of Ravensbrueck what they did.
Q You had no idea of it prior to that time?
A When I heard about a few cases, I assumed that these had been actions disapproved by the highest leadership.
Q You mentioned in your direct testimony the action against the Jews which was carried out in November of 1938. Could you tell me a little something more about it than just that?
A that I can tell you is what I have seen in Duesseldorf, that many shop windows had been smashed, that in the streets there was a turmoil: furniture was being thrown out of windows of apartments. A crowd of young men - Hitler Youth - BDM, ran around the streets, calling out slogans. My husband tried to find out - because he wanted to know - what was going on, and he heard what I told you before.
Q Then that action was not executed by the SS?
A No.
A No.
Q The SS had nothing whatsoever to do about it?
A I didn't see any SS in Duesseldorf indulging in these activities; certainly not a uniformed SS man. I couldn't identify any of them, and it was quite generally held that it had been done by the political organizations and the excesses arranged by them. I heard that in some places police acted against an action.
Q Prior to your internment in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp, subsequent actions were carried out against the Jews, were they not?
A While I was interned in Ravensbrueck? Did I understand you correctly?
Q Prior to your internment in Ravensbrueck and subsequent to 1938 is the period I am referring to.
A Yes, I knew that, because I knew the case of Kohn, who had been deported.
Q Did you know of any other grand scale programs against the Jews, that is programs which extended throughout the Reich?
A I am afraid I didn't quite follow. Would you please repeat?
(The interpreter repeated the question.)
A (Continued) I heard in Ravensbrueck that the wives of Jews were being interned. I talked to a number of wives of Jewish people who had been interned for that reason, not because they were charged with anything else. They had been taken to Ravensbrueck for that reason. How far the descriptions were correct, I do not know.
Q In the beginning of your testimony on the direct examination you spoke of your brother's interest in motorcycling and you stated also that it was decided to form a Panzer unit. Could you tell me whether or not that unit was actually formed?
A I was not talking about a Panzer unit. I never mentioned it. It wasn't called a Panzer, a tank unit.
Q How about a motor cycle unit? Was a motor cycle unit formed at that time?
AA motor cycle Sturm, yes. That is to say, young men who had motor bikes gathered together and went on little trips and had races, and so forth.
Q Then that wasn't connected with the SS. That wasn't a military organization then?
A I regarded that as a sports group. It was an organization similar to the Reiter-Sturm.
Q Was your brother at that time a member of the Allgemeine SS?
A I don't know; if you are in a motorcycle unit, you are a member of the SS; as far as I know, at least, I assume so. I don't think you are in a mounted unit or in a motor bike unit, if you are not a member of the SS.
Q And then this motor cycle unit was affiliated with the Allgemeine SS, is that right?
A I think so, yes.
Q And then we can conclude that your brother at that time was a member of the Allgemeine SS?
A Yes, I think so, certainly.
Q In connection with this matter, you stated that your brother was involved in a motor cycle accident which was suffered in the course of an official trip. Now, in reference to that trip, was that an SS trip?
A This was a trip to go and report to service. He was on duty near Wiedersloh, which was a small town 10 kilometers from Wiedenbrueck, where we were living and my brother as well. From Wiedenbrueck he went to Wiedersloh and en route there were some stones in the street and he drove through the stones and he fell off his motor bike and suffered these extremely grevous skull-injuries.
Q You stated that accident was suffered in 1934. Could you tell me in what part of that year he was injured?
A It must have been in the summer, because I remember it was very hot, but I can't give you a precise date as to the month.
Q That is perfectly sufficient. Now, coming back to Ravensbrueck concentration camp, you mentioned an incident to which we might refer as the "potato incident", and I would like to know whether you can say as of your own knowledge that the civilian population in that vicinity was not better fed than your fellow inmates at Ravensbrueck concentration camp.
A I couldn't say that. All I know is as far as the food of the civilian workers of Heinkel are concerned, I don't know whether the civilian population was better of. The civilian workers of the Heinkel firm ate in a works canteen and I know they said frequently that they got less potatoes than we did. Of course, I did not eat with the civilian workers at any time, but the civilian workers would pass by frequently and saw what potatoes we held in our hands and they told us they were more than they got.
Q But beyond potatoes you can't say that they were not as well fed as you? In other words, the incident refers - Excuse me
A I couldn't touch upon that nor would we always get as many potatoes, It depended on whether a new transport had reached us and then we got more. In other cases we got less. Towards the end we got very little at any time.
Q You mentioned that on one instance you were beaten at Ravensbrueck. Could you tell us whether beatings were -
AAt Bad.
Q Yes, - excuse me - but at Ravensbrueck could you tell me whether or not the beating were a general routine? Were people beaten there?
A No, you couldn't say that. The inmates in the concentration camp consisted of a variety of people. There were the political prisoners, who were together with asocial elements, a number of prostitutes had been locked up. We were together with the professional criminals some of whom would do awful things.
They stole, they beat each other and would do any harm they could to each other. The treatment by the female guards was adjusted in some cases to the lowest level among the inmates. Officially, the female guards were not allowed to beat an inmate. When they were on duty and when they were being hired, they had to sign a form that they took cognizance of the fact that they must not beat the inmates. They were to be at all times a distance of six steps from an inmate, but that, of course, was not observed, and, if a female guard could not get what she wanted, she would beat the inmates. According to my experiences, it also depended on the conduct of the inmate. The official punishment, the flogging, which was allowed in Ravensbrueck as an official punishment, had to be carried out - that was confirmed to me by a number of inmates who knew the regulations by the political administration - the flogging was only allowed to be carried out in the presence of the commandant and the doctor and it had to be approved by the local Gestapo agency responsible for the inmate. I don't know, of course, whether this regulation was observed.
Q In your direct testimony you referred to a Czech inmate. Could you tell me whether nationals of other countries were also interned at Ravensbrueck in addition to Czechs?
A Yes, there was hardly a nation which was not represented. There were very many female Poles, Czechs, Austrians, French women.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Madam, these inmates from the other countries that you have just now mentioned, did they indicate to you how they got to the concentration camp? Had they been accused of any crime or were they merely herded together and put aboard transports and sent on to this concentration camp?
THE WITNESS: I am afraid I didn't receive the translation this time. It didn't come through.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: You spoke of various nationalities represented at Ravensbrueck -
THE WITNESS: Yes.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Previously you indicated to us the background of many of the inmates. Some were criminals, asocials, and so on. How did these inmates from the other countries get to Ravensbrueck. Had they been accused of crimes, or were they merely transported there as a matter of policy?
THE WITNESS: As far as I know and inasmuch as the female foreigners told me, all of them had faced a trial before. Of the mass transports, I know only as far as Russians were concerned, but I did not know too much about these things. I only heard rumors. I know of female Gypsies who were transported there without any special individual accusations or trials.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Wouldn't that same be true also with regard to the female Poles?
THE WITNESS: I am afraid I can't tell you. The female Poles whom I knew had trials.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: What was the population of Ravensbrueck.
THE WITNESS: Inmates were given numbers. When I arrived I was given the number 29,193. New arrivals whom we received in Bad in the Spring of 1945 had the number of 130,000.
BY MR. HIGGINS:
Q. Witness, did you have any idea whatsoever of the mortality rate at Ravensbrueck?
A. The mortality rate at Ravensbrueck was described to me only by rumors. It was extremely difficult even for an inmate in the camp to hear about these things. I wasn't there a sufficiently long period of time in order to reach an opinion. I can only speak about Bad. In Bad not many inmates died. I believe at the most one or two per month. No more. We never had any epidemics at Bad. The camp was relatively small. There were about 1600 or 1800 inmates.
Q. During your internment in the concentration camp did you ever have occasion to hear the names of any of the defendants now in the dock, with the exception of your brother?
A. No.
Q. Would you please tell me where you lived during the greatest part of the time, between the year 1933 and your internment in Ravensbrueck?
A. In 1933 I lived in Duesseldorf, and towards the beginning of the war I joined my parents in Wiedenbrueck. I went to Duesseldorf only very rarely because of the intensified air raids. Until the time of my arrest I lived with my parents. I was arrested in the house of my father.
Q. Did your brother maintain a separate residence?
A. My brother lived in Berlin until he was bombed out in Berlin. Then he lived at Kranichfeld.
MR. HIGGINS: I have no further questions, your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. BERGOLD:
Q. Witness, one more questions. While you were in Ravensbrueck and Bad, were you in a position to observe whether releases were effected from concentration camps?
A. Yes, in Ravensbrueck there were, generally speaking, 20 or 30 releases every day; in some cases there were more, in some others there were less. Many inmates knew when they were going to be released from their protective custody order.
DR. BERGOLD: Thank you. I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal may escort the witness from the witness stand.
(The witness was excused.)
DR. BERGOLD: If the Tribunal please, before calling the witness Klein to the witness stand, I would like to submit my documents with my document book. I shall need some of them in my examination. I submit as Exhibit No. 1, Document No. 1. This is a graphic chart of the competencies of the SS Corps at Wewelsburg. I shall interrogate the defendant about that.
Then, as Exhibit No. 2 I offer Document Klein No. 2, from the Document Book which is an extract from the Registry of the clubs of the Local Court at Munich concerning the Association for the Promotion and Preservation of German Cultural Monuments. I should like to draw the court's attention to the fact that on page 3 of the Document Book, the Directors of the club are named as Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuehrer, and as business manager Oswald Pohl, Gruppenfuehrer in the SS. In Germany all members of the Board who were responsible on the outside had to be entered on the Register. The defendant Klein, consequently, was not on the Board of this club.
As Exhibit No. 3 I offer -
THE PRESIDENT: What was this, Dr. Bergold?
DR. BERGOLD: This was the Association for the Promotion and Preservation of German Cultural Monuments. That is an association which financed the construction at the Wewelsburg. You may recall that in connection with the construction project at the Wewelsburg we have the main charges raised at the defendant by the Prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT: The suspicion is that the funds of this society were used for the construction program at Wewelsburg?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, quite.
As I said, as Document 3 I shall offer Exhibit 3, which is an extract from the Register of the Local Court in Berlin concerning the Convalescent Homes for Natural Cures and Natural Living. I should like to point out here that, unlike the first association on page 5 of the document book, which is also page 5 of the English book, as members of the Board there are named Oswald Pohl as chairman, and the defendant Horst Klein as the manager. Here he appeared an a responsible member of the Board. I shall refer to this Association later on.
Klein Exhibit No. 4 will be Document No. 4, and it is a certified copy of the general power of attorney from the Association for the Promotion and Preservation of the German Cultural Monuments, to the defendant Horst Klein. I shall read only very briefly on page 6, where it says:
"General Power of Attorney for the conclusion of purchases and transfers of property rights of landed properties and for the execution of all legal transactions connected with the purchase and transfer of property rights of landed properties." Signed Pohl, SS-Gruppenfuehrer.
That power of attorney describes the extent and scope of defendant Klein's authority to deputize.
Then as Exhibit No. 5, we have Document No. 5. This is an affidavit by the witness Karl Wolff, who has testified here once before.
THE PRESIDENT: Twice before. Twice. This is Karl Wolff from Milch's office, his adjutant.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, once in the Milch case, and once here.
I have added this affidavit later on because I only heard later on that he was in a position to testify about this. I want to read very briefly from this because it seem important. It says, here in the fourth paragraph on page eight:
"From about 1938 there was a special department Wewelsburg in the Main Office, Personal Staff of the Reichsfuehrer SS. This department had its official seat at the Wewelsburg. I know with certainty that this department Wewelsburg existed until at least 18 February 1943, at which date my term of office as Main Department Chief in the Personal Staff of the Reich Fuehrer-SS expired. But I am convinced that the Department Wewelsburg existed until the end of the war.
"SS-Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the Waffen-SS Tauberg was the office chief of the Department Wewelsburg."
I shall leave the balance of the document to the Court.
As exhibit Klein 6, I am offering Document No. 6. This is an affidavit by Johannes Steuer. It is dated 20 May 1942. This is a somewhat long affidavit, but I would like to draw the Court's attention to one or two points. First of all, I would like to correct the English translation on page 10. It contains a mistake under paragraph 1-a. Towards the end of that paragraph small "a". It says there, that the term "with" has been used together with the above mentioned societies. That term "with" is wrong here. It should say, "just like the above mentioned associations". But from paragraph "b" on page 10 I shall read this --
THE PRESIDENT: Just a second. We didn't get the connection, nor the correction, in paragraph "a".
DR. BERGOLD: In German the sentence reads as follows: "I can state with certainty that Klein had nothing to do with the DWB nor did the above-mentioned societies". And the English transition states: "nor with any of the above societies" - which is wrong. The "with" is wrong. The above mentioned societies had nothing to do with the DWB.
DR. BERGOLD: I should like to read from Paragraph b: "Klein had no connection in the real sense of the word with the SS castle Wewelsburg and the construction work to be carried out there. The building up of the castle there was a particular hobby of Himmler. The basic agreements with the Dresdner Bank concerning the credits for the execution of the construction work were made by Himmler's adjutant Wolff and by Pohl. Pohl as business manager concluded the credit contracts. Klein had to arrange for the transfers and other particular transactions.
"The constructions were executed by SS Standartenfuehrer Bartels, architect, and member of the board of building inspectors, of the personal staff of the Reichsfuehrer SS. Bartels was completely independent of Klein and received his instructions directly from Himmler or via the Personal Staff of the Reichsfuehrer SS, to which he belonged. Klein merely had to assign the sums of money which Bartels requested of him. He did not have the slightest possibility of influencing these requests. In the beginning Bartels was supposed to keep an account of the expenditures by posting the figures mechanically and by adequate vouchers, without Klein's having any influence on the particular use of this money. Bartels himself, however, rejected such rendering of accounts and control, because he did not consider Klein to be either competent or his superior. During the following time Bartels only reported on the expenditures in a general way for purposes of information. Klein often had great doubts because of this arrangement and also remonstrated with Pohl about the matter. He feared that he might some time be held responsible for Bartels' uncontrolled expenditures of these sums, in particular because Bartels, according to Klein's opinion, disposed of the funds very generously, to put it mildly."
I skip a few sentences and then continue: "For his protection Klein obtained an agreement to this effect between Pohl and Bartels, which contained this regulation."
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, will you explain what the Wewelsburg project was exactly? We are not quite sure that we understand what was being done at Wewelsburg.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes. Himmler or the SS had bought an old castle at Wewelsburg. That castle was to be extended for an SS school for the highest leaders of the SS. Only persons above the rank of Gruppenfuehrer could go there; General Officers, in other words. It was a highly confused and somewhat idealistic idea on the part of Himmler, who wanted to build a hall; and downstairs in the tower when somebody died, his shield was to be burned solemnly, and ideas of that type.
THE PRESIDENT: Valhalla.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, yes, quite so. I shall then read from Paragraph c on Page 12. "Klein had nothing whatsoever to do with the prison camp at Wewelsburg. It was in no way placed under his authority. It is known to me that the prison camp in Wewels burg was established on direct orders from Himmler to the Inspectorate of the concentration camps and this probably was done through a personal request of Bartels to Himmler in order to provide Bartels with a sufficient number of workers for his construction project. I also know that Bartels in several reports to Himmler had requested the allocation of an increasing number of inmates."
I shall then read the next but one paragraph on Page 13:
"The camp was under the command of Hauptsturmfuehrer Haas who was completely independent of Klein. I know that Klein tried to supply the administration of the camp with additional food from the estate Boeddecken which he administered, because from his work for the convalescent homes he was aware of the general difficulties concerning the food provisions."
Then from Paragraph d: "The castle as such was under the command of the Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the Waffen SS Taubert," which I have read from Wolff's affidavit.
He was office chief or Amt Chef of the Wewelsburg office. "It was prohibited to enter the castle. When Klein wanted to enter the castle, he had to have a special permit by Taubert."
From "e": "Klein's real task in Wewelsburg consisted in conducting the legal negotiations concerning the acquisition of real estate. The orders which properties were to be bought always came from Bartels. After these orders Klein had to make the deal with the owners."
From Paragraph 2, as far as Pohl's order of May 1942 is concerned, Document Number R-129; Exhibit Number 40, the Court will recall that this is the order that the inmates were to do exhaustive work. "I have never read this order myself. I can remember that Klein was in Italy in May 1942. As the division W-VIII had in my opinion only cultural and charity tasks, I myself rarely submitted such general circulars but threw them away or discarded them somehow. We also never received these general circulars currently because we were not considered on an equal standing with the other offices in the WVHA. I can confirm that Klein spoke to me frequently about this lack of consideration for our division.
"I never heard any remarks by Klein from which I could have gathered that he was informed of the regulations of prison labor or of the general tasks of the WVHA on the whole or that he was interested in it. He only cared for his charitable work."
I shall skip a few things now and leave it to the Court to read. During the examination I may come back to one or two points. I should merely like the Tribunal to look at Page 17 because there again we have a translation mistake. There in the second sentence it says: "I had a member of the W/V Amt inform me of Ravensbrueck because the nurseries were under the control of W/V." "Nurseries" -- that means "kindergarten" in German. Should it not read "horticulture"? It refers to gardens.
THE PRESIDENT: In English the word "nursery" means two things. It's a place where you raise horticulture, flowers, or babies, the same word. This, I take it, refers to gardens, not babies.
DR. BERGOLD: It doesn't refer to babies, no. May I read that sentence because it is important about the extent of the defendant's knowledge? I begin on Page 16, Paragraph 6, the last paragraph on the bottom: "Prior to the date when Klein's sister was taken to the concentration camp Ravensbrueck, Klein had instructed me to obtain information about the conditions prevailing there. From his remarks at that time I could draw the positive conclusion that Klein himself did not have any idea of the general conditions in the concentration camp. I myself was not informed either and put Klein at his ease by saying that the solution attained, namely, that his sister was put into a concentration camp, was to be preferred to a trial by the Volksgerichtshof, the People's Court. I had a member of W/V office inform me of Ravensbrueck because the nurseries were under the control of W/V. The latter informed me that the women in Ravensbrueck were housed very well, were given normal employment with normal working hours, and the food was very good. I told Klein this; and he was very pleased about it indeed."
I shall then come back to the other paragraphs later on. I shall now offer as Exhibit Number V II Document Number 7, an affidavit by Kurt Kraemer. Here again I must correct the mistake on Page 20. There in the third paragraph it says, "The contractor for the Wewelsburg building enterprise ...." There a semi-colon has been placed wrongly. The semi-colon is in front of the term "Berlin" for the second time should be after, where Berlin is named for the first time. It should come after "Head Office Berlin." I shall read from this affidavit the last paragraph on Page 20:
"Herr Assessor Klein had as little authority with regard to the Wewels burg concentration camp as anybody from the construction management.
Wewelsburg concentration camp was administrated as a completely separate office, both with regard to military and economic matters, by Oranienburg and later by Buchenwald. Whoever was local camp commandant received his instructions from his superior office. The camp even had its own construction management. Herr Klein exercised no influence upon the construction measures in Wewelsburg. For example ---"I shan't give you the example. "As a legal man he was not competent for this, but the architects of the Wewelsburg construction management which was not subordinate to him."
Then I have to rectify another mistake on the same page. This is on Page 21a. It should be added there in the last paragraph: "... was protected by Klein from imprisonment when Herr Klein happened to be present in Wewelsburg," because otherwise it doesn't explain who protected him.
Then I shall offer as Exhibit Klein VIII Document Number 8, which is an affidavit by Pastor Franz Josef Tusch, who was a pastor at Wewelsburg.
THE PRESIDENT: You may start with that in the morning, Dr. Bergold.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will be in recess until 0930 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 13 August 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Oswald Pohl, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 13 August 1947, 0945-1630, Justice Robert M. Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Take your seats, please.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal No. 2.
Military Tribunal No. 2 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the court.
THE PRESIDENT: The record will indicate that the defendant Sommer is still ill, and will be excused from this session of court.
DR. BERGOLD (Counsel for defendant Klein): May it please the Tribunal, will you please look at the Horst Klein Document Book? First of all, I have to draw your attention to three mistakes in the translation from the affidavit by Herr Steier already introduced, on page 17 of the document book, under VI-A in the first sentence. There is the word "Volk" which was a reference to the defendant Volk. That has been translated as "people". We did not mean "people" -- "Volk" -- in that sense; we meant the defendant Volk.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: What page is that, Dr. Bergold.
DR. BERGOLD: Page 17, in the last paragraph, VI-A; and it is the last sentence. It is the third line from VI-A. "He had me informed by Voile"--not "informed by the people".
In the came paragraph there is the WVHA is translated as the Main Office for the Security of the Reich. I think we need hardly say in this trial that we do not know the difference between the two institutions.
Then the next mistake occurs on page 20 of the document book, in the third paragraph, which begins "The contractor for the Wewelsburg," but it should not be the "contractor" but either the bearer or the man who financed it.
I suggest that it should, read, "The man who financed the Wewelsburg enterprise was a society for the furtherance and care of German cultural monuments.....
I shall continue with introducing documents. The last thing I started yesterday was Exhibit Klein 8, which is Document No. 8, an affidavit by the Reverend Franz Josef Tusch. That document I offer because in Wewelsburg there is a church which had been purchased by the company, in order to prove that this was not persecuting the church. In this document it is confirmed that he negotiated with the parish in a friendly manner. The results I shall read from page 26: "The Archbishop Dr. Caspar Klein regarded the negotiations as good. Execution of the plan would not have meant any harm to the parish of Wewelsburg from the economic point of view, even if for other reasons -
I am so sorry, I have read the wrong sentence. I apologize. I am reading from the wrong document now, by mistake I read from Document No. 9. I shall read from Document No. 8. It is on page 23, the second paragraph, the last sentence.
"The Archbishop of Paderborn, Dr. Caspar Klein, at that time decided that the grounds of the church should be sold, as he thought the SS would be obliging on some other occasion."
"When the bill of sale was signed on 4 July 1939, as well as during the negotiations which were--" It is on page 23. "necessary after the signing of the sale, Herr Assessor Klein proved not only to be free of any hostile sentiment towards the church, but he showed through his loyal conduct on every occasion that he did not share the wrong and chauvinistic ideas of the NSDAP and that he rejected the fighting aims of the SS."
"In my opinion, Herr Assessor Klein should neither be charged with the presumptiousness of the Party, nor with the unrestrained actions of the SS."
I shall then offer, as Exhibit Klein 9, Document No. 9. This is a certificate from the Vicar-General of the Archbishop in Paderborn.