Q. Well then you mean with your staff in Berlin?
A. No, I was never in Berlin. My working staff was near the Fuehrers Headquarters in East Prussia.
Q. Do you remember what was the date of this service regulation?
A. No.
Q. You have just mentioned that during your interrogation of your interrogations you were shown this service regulation. Did that also happen during your interrogation yesterday?
A. No, I wasn't asked about these things yesterday, at the end, only about Ruma and then about something else which doesn't concern this trial.
Q. That was in one of your other interrogations that you were asked about this?
A. Yes. Last week.
Q. Last week I see. And which part of this service regulation was read to you at that time, or were you able to read the service regulation yourself?
A. No, I was not allowed to read it myself, but I kept on getting questions, I think one calls it leading questions, or whatever they are called, in order to find out whatever I knew about the regulations.
Q. Well, then, you didn't know whether the document which you were shown was the same as the original. You couldn't check that. Could you?
A. Well, he either shook his head or nodded his head, but I had the impression that I knew more or less what it was.
Q. Well, that is your only reason for the assumption that your testimony corresponded with the document.
A. Well, Doctor during an interrogation I can tell you whether the interrogator is.....
Q. Is satisfied or not?
A. Whether he was of the same opinion or not.
Q. You mean satisfied? Well now another question. At that time did you visit the commander of Army Group E in Salonika?
A. No, no.
Q. Witness, can you still tell me today, since you knew it last week, since you saw them last week, what was contained in the service regulations for the Higher SS and Police Leader in Greece about the band warfare?
A. Well, the, of course Doctor you must put questions the same as the interrogator did so that I can say yes or no or it was like this. I don't know it by heart.
Q. You have just said that your knowledge about the tasks regarding the band warfare of the Higher SS and Police Leader -
A. Yes, yes, but it takes a little bit of time. I must think about the regulations a bit, first of all.
Q. Pray do!
A. It was very clearly expressed in these regulations, first of all, that the Higher SS and Police Leader -
Q. Witness, please limit yourself to the question which I have put to you. My question only concerns the tasks of the Higher SS and Police Leader in Greece regarding band warfare.
A. Well, I thought the whole regulation -
Q No, only band warfare.
A But the regulations aren't only about band warfare.
Q But my question is.
A I misunderstood you, I am sorry. With regard to the combatting of the bands according to the regulations Schimana should, according to the regulations as was usual in other territories, Schimana was to receive his own territory and this territory should be delegated to him by the territorial commander and the same things happened to all the Higher SS and Police Leaders and this in area of his he should be responsible to the territorial commander and in all the authorization for the Higher SS and Police headers it states that this regulation was issued with the agreement of the OKW, discussions between Himmler and the OKW, and that the needs of the Wehrmacht should have priority, but that the Higher SS and Police Leader should belong to the staff -
Q Witness, I only asked you about band warfare.
A Well, that is all.
Q Witness, who in Greece was in charge, as far as orders were concerned, of band warfare?
A Well, I can't say that from my own knowledge who was in charge of it. It was probably the same as everywhere. Various formations took part in the band warfare. If you ask me who had the responsibility, then of course it is different, I did not understand you, I don't know what you mean by in charge!
Q What is contained in the service regulation for the Higher SS and Police Leader about the responsibility with regard to the carrying out of the band warfare by the Higher SS and Police Leader?
A Of course like every divisional commander who carried out an operation of which he is in charge is responsible to his Wehrmacht commander, so was the responsible, of course - responsible there can't be any doubt about it - exactly the same as in Warsaw I was responsible to the Army. I was responsible personally, and I am still responsible today.
Q Is that contained in the service regulation? That the Higher SS and Police Leader is responsible to the military commander of Greece?
A Well, I don't know the text, but it must contain something on those lines.
Q Witness, do you know any details about the tactical chains of command in the Balkans?
AAs far as the high agencies were concerned, yes, I can.
Q Did you ever find out about the channels of command, the tactical chains of command, with Group E in the Balkan Area?
A Not with the Army Group itself in Salonika, but in the area.
Q Did you find out yourself from the Army Group?
A No.
Q And now, Witness, my last question. The Chief of the general staff of Army Group E has stated here under oath that General Speidel had nothing to do with band warfare and that the Higher SS and Police Leader in Greece received his commissions as regards band warfare from Army Group E, are you of the opinion -
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor please, if counsel is going to make a statement like that I think he should submit the actual affidavit ti the witness so that the witness can see in what context the statement was made.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: We will hear the question first and rule after the question is complete.
BY DR. WEISSGERBER:
Q Witness, do you think that the Chief of Army Group E knew less about the chains of command in Greece that you did?
A No, of course not. I don't think that at all. Of course he knew more about it.
DR. WEISSGERBER: Thank you. I have no further questions.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: Any further cross examination of this witness
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Dr. Mueller-Torgow for General Felmy.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q Witness, what was the name of the corps to which you belonged in 1944, after you had been chief of the antipartisan warfare units?
A The corps was called the 14th SS Corps and later on the 10th.
Q Was there any other corps of which you were in charge?
A Yes, at the end the Oder Corps.
Q Did you not talk about a corps called Bach?
A No, that is the Warsaw Corps.
Q What was the official name of this Corps?
A Officially it is called Corps von dem Bach. The official name in the organization of the Wehrmacht. it was submitted to me during the Warsaw trial and this official schedule of organization therein was designated with the corps flag as Corps Bach.
Q Well, and that doesn't mean Corps von dem Bach-Zelewski?
A No.
Q Witness is it correct that during the War you refused to be called Bach-Zelewski?
A No, that was a long time before the War.
Q You refused?
A Not refused, well I will talk about that. You will remember that Field Marshal von Hindenburg, the Reich President, also had two names von Benchendorf and von Hindenburg and he only called himself von Hindenburg and not von Benchendorf. And in my family I also had two names. And for a time I did not called myself Bach-Zelewski but for a time I only called myself von Zelewski. I can do that with the same right because formerly the heraldy office decided about that and formerly it could sign my name both von Zelewski and also von Bach. But as far as citizenship is concerned, I was called BachZelewski. and for some time, perhaps about five weeks, I only signed myself von Bach. And I wouldn't have put down Bach-Zelewski except that in the american questionnaire it stated, "Please all your names."
And I wanted to avoid that one could say, why didn't you give all your names.
Q That means you often changed your names?
A No, I was always called von dem Bach-Zelewski.
Q Well, at various periods you called yourself differently.
A No. Since the Fifteenth Century, we have been von dem BachZelewski; and it is not my fault if people called me different things at different times, if they shortened my name.
Q You always used the name von dem Bach-Zelewski?
A Well, I do not know what you are trying to get at, but I must tell you the following. The brother of my father was the first commander of the German Protection Troop under Dr. Karl Peters. After the last war, the monument of von Zelewski which after the first world war was destroyed, was built up again by the English in memory of this man the monument is called von Zelewski monument.
Q I didn't ask you that.
AAnd one of Schill's officers was also called von Zelewski and some are called Bach, but it is not the same name.
Q But you insany case called yourself Bach-Zelewski and also always signed yourself Bach-Zelewski, or did you not?
A No, mostly my orders were signed only von dem Bach.
Q And how do you sign yourself now?
A Mostly I sign myself von dem Bach and sometimes von dem Bach-Zelewski. In documents, in official documents, Doctor, I must sign my full name, but orders I can sign von Bach as I want to.
Q Witness, you do not know anything about an extradiction order of Poland?
A No.
Q Even in view of the fact that it was announced in the press and on the radio a short time ago?
A Well, we have no radio.
Q I mean, you also didn't hear anything about it?
A No.
Q Witness, as far as I can remember, from about January 1943 until January 1944, you were chief of the antipartisan warfare units, is that correct?
A Please, would you repeat the time again?
Q From January 1943 until about January 1944.
A Yes, about one year.
Q One year?
A Well, the commission was never rescinded formally. I could also be made responsible for everything while I was at the front.
Q And in this capacity you were subordinate directly to Himmler?
A Yes.
Q And Himmler was immediately responsible to Hitler?
A Yes.
Q Well, then, am I wrong in assuming that if I say you enjoyed Hitler's particular confidence during this time?
A Hitler's yes; but Himmler's no. Because in 1935 I was already arrested by Himmler and sent to Berlin in a special aircraft and in the main trial this was already talked about in the case against Schacht, if I may point that out.
Q That is, you enjoyed the confidence of Hitler?
A Yes, Hitler, not Himmler.
Q Well, I do not mean as a general but as chief of the AntiPartisan warfare.
A I was never with during that period.
Q I mean with Himmler.
A Yes, with Himmler.
Q How often?
A Well, whenever I came back. It changed. When nothing was going on.
Perhaps once a week. It was very difficult to get to Himmler, but quite often, twice following, and then perhaps for a whole month not at all. Anyway in 1943 I was with him.
Q In spite of what you just said about contradictions.
A Well, it was quite usual. There were contradictions and oppositions all over the place.
Q Well, then you do know why exactly you were chosen to be chief of the antipartisan warfare units?
A Well, I can tell you that. I am very glad you asked me about it. General von Schenkendorf sent me personally in the second half of 1942 to Wagner, chief of the security. General Quartermaster Wagner belonged to the OKW as well as the OKH and had very many responsibilities as regards band warfare and Schenkendorf in his reports asked that a central agency of the army should be set up, which should finally standardize the whole thing and I of course signed this agreement with Wagner and it went as follows.
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
I was chief of the antipartisan warfare under the chief of the general staff at that time was Zeitzler, and I should get, as chief of staff, a colonel or a brigadier general of the Army, and this agreement which was already completed and in writing was not approved by Himmler because Himmler saw in this a restriction of his powers, if I was to be made subordinate to the Chief of the General Staff of the Army. That is how I became the chief. In my service regulation, which must be in the files somewhere, it states expressly that as chief of the antipartisan warfare units I could only command operations on very definite occasions, that is at the adjacent points.
Q Witness, may I show you one passage from the Posen speech which has already been quoted. Please read the last paragraph.
MR. RAPP: Your Honor, is it being put in for the purpose of refreshing his memory or is it being put in to get it into the record by Defense Counsel at a time when they were not to offer any more material of that kind?
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: What is the purpose of reading this exhibit, Dr. Mueller-Torgow?
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: I want to prove, Your Honor, that the Reichsfuehrer SS was competent for the band warfare. That can be seen from the speech. In addition, this is to shake the credibility of the witness.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: I think the objection is good. It will be sustained.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q Witness, you said in your direct examination that according to your view the reprisal measures had the effect that the partisan movement increased; is that correct?
A Excuse me, Doctor. I am still thinking about the document I just read. I would like very much to say something about that document.
Q I am afraid it isn't possible. Did you understand my question?
A No. Please would you repeat it? I have to change my mind Court No. V, Case No. VII.
completely.
Q As far as I remember, you said that according to your opinion reprisal measures had the effect that the partisan movement increased; is that correct?
A Yes, and that is also my opinion today.
Q Did you, therefore, for that reason, personally think that reprisal measures were wrong?
A Yes, reprisal measures were wrong, of course.
Q Well, you thought they were wrong, did you also state that to higher quarters?
A Yes.
Q To whom?
A To Himmler.
Q Himmler! I see and what was Himmler's answer?
A Well, I have already stated that here in the IMT trial when I said that the higher government leadership of course were not accessible to sensible and human representations and the mass representation of all the generals was missing. The pressure of a spontaneous conteraction of all of the generals would then certainly have forced Hitler to bend to these representations.
Q Therefore, then, you want to say that some kind of a resistance of an individual commander would have had no sense at all and had no sense where it was done?
A Well, Doctor, on the contrary, if every single individual had done it then of course it would be a spontaneous mass action.
Q Well, for that it would necessarily have to be jointly. Witness -
A Well, what do you mean by "jointly" -- at the moment when it starts. It started with the polish campaign, these terror orders.
Q You are avoiding my question. If a commander protests against an order which he has received from higher up as in the case when you protested regards reprisal measures to Himmler, then you say that that would have had no sense at all because these people were not accessible Court No. V, Case No. VII.
to protests of this kind. Is that correct?
A Yes, they were very inaccessible to human considerations.
Q Witness, you said that you were in Athens once.
A Yes.
Q In October 1943?
A Yes, in 1943 but I want to stress that I did not express myself clearly.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: Just a moment please, just until we are having a change of interpreters here. All right, you may proceed.
QUESTIONS BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q How long were you in Athens?
A Only one day.
Q In October 1943. At that time, were you familiar with the band conditions in southern Greece?
A Well, yes, from reports. From these reports which I received from the OKW.
Q Do you know General Felmy?
A Only by name.
Q Did you know at that time that General Felmy was in Athens with Moshaft as Commander of the 68th Corps?
A I do not know today whether I knew it at that time.
Q Can you tell me why you did not go to him?
A I do not know. With one general I unfortunately had to call on him, I did not want to.
Q You say "unfortunately"?
A Well, because -- I mean, I had to jump channels -- I wanted to be alone and Schimana said I had to make a visit as a matter of courtesy. That is why I said unfortunately. After all, I came there as a private person.
Q Well, but you did not avail yourself of the opportunity to discuss the band situation in Southern Greece.
A No, no. not the overall situation.
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
Q Not the overall situation?
A No, I was not entitled to do that.
Q But you were the chief of antipartisan warfare units, were you not?
A What do you mean by units, there were no such units.
Q But you had to deal with the tasks of combatting of bands?
A Only centrally, only keeping the records and records were kept.
Q You received the reports from down there?
A No, they were directed, addressed to me by the Wehrmacht.
Q Well, that's what I mean.
JUDGE BURKE: Hasn't this situation been fairly well covered by the cross examination of other counsel?
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: If it please the Tribunal, I do not think that this very point has been discussed; but I am almost finished.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q Witness, I would like to put the last question and discuss once more the resistance which you mentioned previously, your resistance to Himmler. What kind of attitude did your SS leaders display? Did these SS leaders exert any pressure on Hitler or Himmler not to carry into effect certain orders and did you jointly exert that pressure against the supreme leadership?
A Certainly not, sir.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Thank you. I have no further questions.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: Any further cross examination? Is there any redirect?
MR. RAPP: Only one or two questions, Your Honor.
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
MR. RAPP: Only one or two questions your Honor.
Q Witness, in the course of cross examination a number of terms have been put to you which I want to have elucidated. The term "Wehrmacht", armed forces was used. What part did the Wehrmacht consist of?
A The Wehrmacht consisted of the army, the air force, the navy and the Waffen SS.
Q You were a member of the Waffen SS, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q You were thus a member of the German Wehrmacht?
A Yes.
Q Witness, do you know having been asked whether you knew that the field marshal von Mannstein, dropped his surname von Levinsky during the war.
A Yes, his proper name is von Lewinsky, called Mannstein, but his name Mannstein is an adopted name.
Q Witness, you then went on to talk briefly about certain courtmartial decisions in connection with disciplinary measures and if I recall correctly you said that for you the judicial authority and disciplinary authority was the Reichsfuehrer of the SS Heinrich Himmler. Is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q Now how did things happen, for instance when you as has been mentioned so many times, for instance in the case of Warsaw within a given army unit, for instance the Ninth Army if they were guilty of action which contravened the orders of the army commander - please explain to us the jurisdiction the courts-martial institutions all in connected sequence so everybody can follow you and please talk slowly!
A Before Warsaw in the case of Warsaw I had army troops as well as troops of the Waffen SS and police troops under my command, I myself being commanding general was not the judicial authority neither did I have a judge advocate among my staff. When I did receive a report that Court No. V, Case No. VII.
in the lower echelons of the troops some delinquency had occurred I had to inform the division commander under my command or rather to report the facts so he himself could initiate the courts-martial procedure. The higher court rested with the army. I myself being threatened with the possibility that my procedure was disturbed by delay -- I had to go through rather tortuous channels and I didn't want to always use it. I have a very striking case that was when SS Brigadefuehrer Kaminsky -- let his troops loot and murder on purpose. I went to the spot myself, arrested Kaminsky and the whole of his staff, a courts-martial procedure was instituted by me personally on my command post and as he was caught red handed I had the sentence executed within 24 hours. Before, I reported to the judicial authority of his Brigadefuehrer, that was Himmler, informed him of the execution.
Q Certain things initiated in this trial, that is things which you allegedly committed in connection with the capture of Warsaw, things you ordered or which you carried out or ordered? What measures could your army commander order, take against you as being a member of the Waffen SS unit in order to punish you on the spot?
A Well, first if he knew I committed any criminal offenses or gave criminal orders, he could have immediately apprehended me, arrested me and could have ordered another to take my place and then had to apply to Himmler for courts-martial procedures to be instituted against me and as things were very precarious on the front line, he could have immediately put me before a courts-martial and shoot me.
Q What is a courts-martial?
A I myself recall I ordered one myself, it is learned by every professional officer. There is not much to be learned. It is a summary court consisting of three officers, that is the way I learned it, in which the facts are investigated, witnesses have to be called, confessions may be made. It is sufficient if the presiding judge has seen the facts himself and the man is either sentenced to death or acquitted or else it has to be submitted to another general court and then the Court No. V, Case No. VII.
term "summary court" is applied in a different sense. I think the troops did not comprehend the term as clearly. The troops in their reports also used the term "shot after summary courts-martial" or shot when caught red-handed-for the term summary court.
Q That is a little confused. Witness, are these terms synonymous or are they not?
A No, it is not the same thing. The term is not the same - it is "standrechtlich" may also mean "standgerichtlich", but the troops also used these words in connection with persons shot after having been caught red-handed or shot after an interrogation by summary court. Then it appears in the report: Shot after summary courts martial.
Q I have no further questions.
RECROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITSCH:
Q Witness, I have only one question. Kaminsky - who was he?
A He was a so-called national Russian - an ethnic Russian, he may have been a Pole, I think he was born in Posen.
Q He was subordinated to you?
A I don't want to answer that.
Q Was he an SS man, SS leader, or what was he?
AAt that moment he was a Wehrmacht general, who had been deferred to the SS -- up to that time he had been a Wehrmacht general.
Q In that moment, when you turned against him, what was he then?
A Well, then he was SS Brigadefuehrer since a few days.
Q If it happened a few days earlier then he would still be a Wehrmacht general, would you have adopted the same procedure?
A Certainly, the same procedure as I was his superior general. The presiding judge of a summary court does not have to be a judicial authority.
Q You would have acted in the same way?
A I certainly would.
Q Would that have been in accordance with the rules?
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
A Certainly, it is prescribed by my duties, I had to. I caught him murdering.
Q Would it have complied with the procedures laid down by Brauchitsch and Hitler? You know them, don't you?
A What agreements?
Q Jurisdiction of the SS and Wehrmacht?
A These crimes do not interest me - when it is a question of crime. This is not a military court but a summary courts-martial.
Q You would have taken the right into your own hands, shot even a Wehrmacht general?
A In this case, certainly without any question.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: Any further questions?
MR. RAPP: No further questions.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: Any questions by the Tribunal? The Tribunal will stand in recess until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
MR. RAPP: Is the witness excused?
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The witness is excused.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The Tribunal will adjourn until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(At 1710 hours 14). January 1948, the court adjourned until 0930 hours, 15 January 1948.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Wilhelm List, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on the 15th day of January, 1948, 0930, Judge Wennerstrum presiding.
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal V. Military Tribunal V is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the court.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain whether or not all defendants are present in the court room?
THE MARSHAL: May it please Your Honors, all defendants are present in the court room.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, do you have some matter you wish to present now?
DR. SAUTER: Yes, if Your Honor please. Dr. Sauter for the defendant Von Geitner. Your Honor, yesterday we were shown lists of the documents which were presented at the cross examination of the individual defendants. In this list Brigadier-General von Geitner is charged with two documents which were not used in the cross-examination of Geitner, but in the cross examination of General Foertsch. This is first of all Document NOKW 2004 -- I am sorry, I must correct that: it is 2009, Exhibit 594, and then document No. 498-PS, with Exhibit No. 598. These two documents were submitted in the crossexamination of General Foertsch. The first document was submitted on the 20th of October 1947, and the second document on the 21st of October 1947, but these two documents were not submitted in the cross examination of Brigadier-General von Geitner. Therefore, it is only from the list which has been submitted that we learn that the prosecution is of the opinion that these two documents were supposed to have been submitted against the defendant von Geitner. Now the situation is this: that up until now we did not know that Brigadier-General von Geitner was also supposed to have been charged with these documents.
If Your Honor please, these two documents concern first of all the well known Commando order of Hitler dated the 18th of October 1942, and the supplements which the Wehrmacht Commander in South East, General Loehr, issued. These two documents, that is, the commando order and the supplement of General Loehr, were submitted by the Prosecution. With regard to this commando order of Hitler, however, the Commander of Serbia, that is, General Bader, also issued supplements, and this was on the 4th of November 1942. These supplements I have taken from the war diary of the commanding general and commander in Serbia, that is, General Bader, and these supplements have not been submitted, neither by the prosecution nor by me, because up until now I had no reason to do this. This supplements are, however, of very great importance for the defense of BrigadierGeneral von Geitner, because from this document which I have taken from the war diary it can be clearly seen that Brigadier General von Geitner had nothing at all to do with the working and passing on of the commando order. I would like to recall here that Brigadier-general von Geitner, during his examination, stated that he saw the commando order, but he had had nothing at all to do with it. Brigadier-General von Geitner also recalled that at that time he intentionally avoided any kind of connection at all with this commando order, because he himself rejected the commando order. In this new supplementary order of General Bader, it is now obvious that Brigadier-General von Geitner actually had nothing at all to do with the Commando order and we know from numerous other documents that Brigadier General von Geitner initialled all these orders which he had seen; either he initialled them before the order was passed on, or subsequently when the files were submitted to him to deal with. From this new document which I would like at a later date to submit to the Tribunal it can be seen that Brigadier-General von Geitner has not initialled this document. I say, therefore, that from this new document which we have taken from the war diary it can be seen that Brigadier-General von Geitner has not initialled this document, but on the document one finds the initials of First Lieutenant Bode.
First Lieutenant Bode, perhaps the Tribunal will recall, is the administrative jurist who has often been mentioned here and who was with the Commander in Serbia dealing with matters regarding reprisals. And now in the name of Brigadier-General von Geitner, I would like to request the Tribunal to allow me subsequently to submit this further document dated the 4th of November, 1942, which contains the supplements of General Bader to the commando order dated the 13th of October 1942. I have a photostat copy of this document and if the tribunal fulfills my request, I can obtain further photostatic copies and submit them later on to the Tribunal. This was not possible before, because we have only just found out that not only General Foertsch, but also Brigadier General von Geitner is charged with the documents. That is the request which I have to make to the Tribunal.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If Your Honors please, I submit this is entirely out of order. We charged in Count 3 of our indictment the commando order against all of the defendants except List.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, that is Exhibit 25, is it not?
DR. SAUTER: The commando order.
THE PRESIDENT: The original commando order?
DR. SAUTER: Exhibit 594 -- Exhibit 598, and the supplements of General Loehr are Exhibit 594, and with these two exhibit numbers you will find the supplement of General Bader which was not submitted by the Prosecution at the time.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, the references I made was to the original exhibit which I understand is Exhibit No. 25. Prosecution Exhibit No. 25. Which is the original or it relates to the original commando order, and is the one upon which we have been giving the main consideration. Now that was the nature of my inquiry to Mr. Fenstermacher.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors please, I don't know the exact exhibit number, but I think the document to which Your Honor refers were certain instructions of Hitler with respect to the commando order. They outline, in effect, the entire substance of the commando order. The commando order itself was introduced during the cross examination of General Foertsch, as well as a supplement to the commando order which General Foertsch, as Chief of Staff of Army Group E, then distributed to the units under the command of Army Group E. One of the units under Army Group E at that time was the Commandant of Serbia, of which General Geitner was chief of staff. Now, in view of the fact that we charged in Count 3 of the indictment the commando order against all the defendants except List, and in view of the fact that we put in the instructions of Hitler, I believe as Exhibit 25, as part of our direct case, and the commando order was well known and was introduced in the international trial, I submit that defendant Geitner had full notice of all the allegations of the indictment with respect to this order. If he wanted to introduce anything about a supplement given him by Bader, he had plenty of time to do it during his direct case. The supplement which was sent out by General Foertsch was introduced during Foertsch's cross examination. Geitner took the stand several weeks after Foertsch left the stand. He had plenty of time to answer that subject. I submit that Dr. Sauter's application is very late indeed.
DR. SAUTER: Your Honor, might I correct one thing. You just stated Exhibit 25 - that is another order; that is the "terror" order. In the prosecution's list of the cross examination documents for Foertsch, the figure before the 19th is "598, 21 October 1947, 498 PS, commando order signed by Hitler on the 18th of October, 1942." That is the order about which I am talking at this time, and this order was charged against General Foertsch during the cross examination; but not against General von Geitner and it was only from the list which was submitted yesterday or the day before yesterday concerning the cross examination documents that we saw, to our surprise, that this document is now to be charged against General von Geitner, I am of the opinion that if the Hitler Commando Order and the execution regulations by General Loehr are submitted then a thorough method of presentation is achieved, if the execution regulations of von Bader are submitted also because von Geitner was not chief of staff with General Doehr, but with General Bader, and the execution regulations of this General were not submitted, and these are the ones I would like to submit in order to show you that actually General von Geitner had nothing at all to do with this order.