A. Yes.
Q. Then, the order further provides, "And he is to make decisions in terms of the overall responsibility which falls to the Wehrmacht in the Southeast area."
A. Yes.
Q. Then, it provides that the "leadership will be simplified in the branches of the Wehrmacht, and the high Command of the Wehrmacht m;ill be relieved of many individual questions and differences of opinion which are the inevitable result of having all Wehrmacht branches working side by side in the same area."
A. Yes.
Q. And then it lists in some detail the duties which are you responsible for. First, the safeguarding of a unificed defense, Do you recall that?
A. Yes indeed.
Q. And the sentence listed "directions for the ocean-transport movement in the near future".
A. Yes.
Q. And "the control of supply on land and on sea for all Wehrmacht branches in the Balkans."
A Yes.
Q. "Supervision over the military administration to be exercised by the command occupied by the German troops."
A. Yes, that's right.
Q. And then do you recall the supplement to that order which went along with it, which stated that the Wehrmacht Commander South case has to support the Reich Plenipotentiary in every respect and to confer with him in the measures he prepares for Greece?
A. Yes.
Q. And then it provided that "the Plenipotentiary in Greece was to keep you informed on political questions?
A. Yes.
Q. And that "control of propaganda in Greece is the duty of the foreign office which is to cooperate with the High Command of the Wehrmacht in this matter?"
A. Yes.
Q. And then do you recall that on 15 June a regulation or the execution of the Hitler Order no. 31, signed by Keitel, was sent down?
A. Yes.
Q. And that provides in part that the Wehrmacht Commander Southeast is the sole command authority of the Wehrmacht in the Balkans concerning all those duties for which he is responsible pursuant to Directive 31?
A. Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Denney, pardon me. Did you refer to this last regulation as an exhibit?
MR. DENNEY: I beg your pardon, Your Honor. This is Exhibit 16. The one to which I was referring previously was Exhibit 15, Exhibit 15, at the bottom of Page 55 of Document Book I. And Exhibit 16 begins at Page 60 of Document Book I.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
BY MR. DENNEY:
Q. And still referring to Exhibit 16, the regulation for the execution of Directive 31, administrative offices had been put at the disposal of the Wehrmacht Commander Southeast by OKW--OKH; I beg your pardon.
A. Yes.
Q. And then over on page 1, the second page of the communication in Document Book I, still Exhibit 16, "The Wehrmacht Commander will be informed by the respective offices of the OKW concerning current military political and economic directives and events."
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall that it also provided that Wehrmacht units would regulate the delivergy of gazettes?
A. I can't recall that. I can't recall the contents at the moment.
Q. Well, do you recall that at the end of the order it said that daily reports would be submitted to OKW and OKH?
A. Yes.
Q. And monthly reports to OKH concerning the problems or military administration?
A. I cannot recall that at the moment, but it is correct. I have read this Directive 31, but not so throughly that I know it by heart, although I have heard it here several times. I only can recall the general contents.
Q. I don't want to take advantage of you at all. I'm very sorry. I thought perhaps you'd read it. If you wish I'd be glad to give you a copy of it so you can read it. If Your honors please, He is being submitted a German copy of the document which I've just been reacting.
Have you had an opportunity to look at the order?
A. Yes indeed; thank you.
Q. You're welcome. And you find in there air those provisions which I read?
A. Yes indeed.
Q. Do you recall Dr. Laternser's asking you about an Exhibit No. 88 which was an order of General Boehme? This document, if Your Honors please, is on Page 34 of the English Document Book III, and Page 27 of the German Document Book III, that being an order of General Boehme of 10 October 1941. And if I remember correctly, you stated that the first time you knew about this order was here in Nurnberg?
A. Yes, that's right.
Q. And you had nothing to indicate to you at that time that this order was going to come out?
A. I don't understand the question.
Q. Well, perhaps I can rephrase it for you. You did not know on 10 October or at any time that General Boehme was going to issue such an order?
A. No.
Q. And as far as you know, there was no way of your knowing about that?
A. No.
Q. And you told Dr. Laternser that you believed that OKW had issued this order to him directly?
A. No; I have never maintained that.
Q. I'd like to have the witness handed Exhibit 88 in the German. That's on Page 34; Your Honors; of Document Book III.
Do you note at the top of that Exhibit; that is; General Boehme's order; is the note "an information copy"?
A. Yes.
Q. Excuse me. "An information copy was directed to the office of the Wehrmacht Commander Southeast; but you never saw it?
A. I have said that the order had been issued on the 10th of October by General Boehme; and merely an information copy was sent to the Armed Forces Commander Southeast. Since I cannot remember ever to have seen or known that order; since the order came as an information copy; it's quite possible that it took a longer time because it did not actually affect the Armed Forces Command Southeast; and since on the morning of the 13th of October I was not an service any longer. I can be sure that I did not receive the order. Those were my statements to Dr. Laternser; and I added that if I had received the order it would have had to be initialed by me.
Q. And you were taken sick on the 15th of October and operated on in a hospital in Athens on the 17th, and you never received this order and you had no way of knowing that the order was going to be given out?
A. No.
Q. And until you got here to Nurnberg you never did know that the order was given out?
A. No.
MR. DENNEY: Will you please hand the witness Exhibit 53, Document Book 2, which appears at page 67 of that book?
If Your Honors please, it is Exhibit 53, Document Book II, page 67 in the English, and I am sorry I don't have the German page. Perhaps Dr. Laternser can help me.
DR. LATERNSER: Page 52 of the German, page 67 of the English.
MR. DENNEY: Page 67 of the Document Book II, Your Honor, Exhibit 53, and wage 34 of Document Book 3, Exhibit 88.
Q. Do you recall testifying with reference to Exhibit 53, the Neitel order of 16 September 1941, that you received the order from Keitel, that you wore opposed to it, but that you passed it on?
A. Yes.
Q. I now direct your attention to the order number of the order of 16 September 1941, Exhibit 53; you will note that the OKW file number of the order is 002060/41; that is the order which you -(interrupted)
A. Just a moment, please.
Q. You will find it on page 32 of the Document Book which you have.
A. Yes, it is right.
Q. That is the OKW order number, is it not, 002060/41?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is the order that you passed on?
A. This order arrived with copies for the offices to which it was to be passed on by us, that is the order arrived already complete with copies which we had to pass on,-- that cannot be seen from that particular copy here, but from the photostat.
Q. Yes, and now I direct your attention to the Boehme Order of 10 October, about which you have told us you know nothing, under subject -- please note the reference, the reference is to "Chief of OKW, 002060/41, Top Secret, 16 September 1941." That is Exhibit 88.
A. May I see the document again?
Q. You will find that at page 27 in the German Document Book III; it is Exhibit 88, Boehme Order 10 October 1941.
A. Yes.
Q. So the Boehme Order of 10 October 1941 was based on the Keitel Order of 16 September 1941, which you passed down, was it not?
A. Yes.
Q. And it wasin this Boehme Order of 10 October 1941 that he ordered that for each killed or murdered German soldier or Volksdautschen, men women or children, 100 prisoners or hostages were to be shot and that for each wounded German soldier or Volksdeutschen 50 prisoners or hostages were to be shot?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall now that perhaps the Boehme Order was based on the Keitel Order which you had passed down?
A. That it was based on the Keitel Order was always clear to me.
If I may say so, I think there is an error here. In my statement to Dr. Laternser I have never said that for the issuance of this order of 10 October Boehme had received an immediate order by the OKW. I had never made a remark to that effect, instead when I was going to say "I could assume"....the prosecutor intervened and said I was not entitled to make an argument.
I could not assume anything what Boehme might have thought. I was going to say something quite different. If I am now being reproached with having said that the Boehme Order could be traced to an immediate order by OKW, and that it was not based on this order of 16 September, but instead of that on a second order, that is erroneous. All I wanted to do was to give my grounds for this assumption, and in that I was interrupted by the Prosecution. I think Dr. Laternser will be able to affirm that.
Q. I am very sorry if I interrupted you. Turning now to the question of task forces Rosenberg -- excuse me, I don't think you need those books any more. Do you remember Dr. Laternser questioning you about the letter from Rosenberg to Borman, which was Exhibit 4, which appears at page 11 of the English text, and page 11 of the German text in Book I -- I beg your pardon, it is page 8 of the English text and page 6 of the German text, Your Honor., in which Rosenberg mentions to Borman that you are cooperating with him with reference to certain cultural researches that were being carried on in the southeast?
A. Rosenberg maintains that.
Q. And you said that that wasn't so, what he said?
A. Rosenberg has written a private letter and I cannot prevent him writing private letters. He wrote that I had contact with him, and that is not correct, because I have never had contact with Rosenberg. I have stated that I only met Rosenberg once on the occasion of a party, and I did not talk with him, and later on I did not have any contact with him. The letter of Rosenberg contains a private opinion of Rosenberg's, and this is erroneous because he states what I had biven him permission to look at archieves in Belgrade. No further writes that I would possible allow the same for Salonika. I have later stated that I recall that Lt. von Ingram had visited me, and I received him first of all because he had got the Knights Cross in the Eastern Campaign, and for that reason I received him and he told me that he had permission to look at archives, and on this occasion he mentioned material which night be directed against the Reich, and I told him that I expected everything to go in order, and that no special events would occur.
And that was the extent of our cooperation, if you can call it cooperation, in the cultural sphere. Rosenberg further states that I had told him, or rather his representatives, that the confiscation of this material would be carried out by the SD, the Security Service. I can only say that the SD was an unknown quantity to me at that time.
Q. For whom did Lt. von Ingram work?
A. For Rosenberg.
Q. And as such you had he power or authority to give him any orders?
A. No.
Q. And referring you now to Exhibit 10, which is page 38 of the English Document Book I, and on page 27 of the German Document Book I, Dr. Laternser, I believe, directed your attention to that yesterday, wherein the commandant of the Army rear area stated that in compliance with orders of the 12th Army of April 19, 1941, Department I-c, Order Humber Secret, areas in operation in the area of the 12th Army, Special Detachment, Reichsleader Rosenberg, which has the task of examining states libraries, archives, Offices of High Church Authorities, Free Mason lodges, and Jewish organizations for political incidents directed against the Reich and of having the material in question confiscated; you don't recall any such order given by the 12th Army on 19th April 1941?
A No. I may add that the prosecutor asked me an hour ago about the activities of the Staff; this here is a case where without doubt the department I-c issued an order without previously informing the commander in chief, because they were obviously of the opinion that a department of the Reich was concerned. Material was to be sorted and evaluated and obviously Lt. von Ingram approached this Department I-c, and consequently Department I-c issued this order, in the opinion and correct assumption that it was not necessary to inform the commander in chief. It must be considered that the period during which this happened was a period of very tense operational auctions. If I remember correctly this Rosenberg letter was written during the April days of that year, around about the 20th.
Q Yes, I believe it was written on the 23rd. Just a moment, yes, it was written on April 23. By the 23rd of April you were already undergoing the second capitulation in Greece, weren't you, and had not the Thracian Army surrendered on the 9th and had not the Epirus Army surrendered on the 21st?
A The Epirus Army surrendered on the 21st, and one can assume that it took a certain amount of time until Rosenberg received an answer from the person whom he sent to Greece, therefore this discussion could have only been at a previous time. Besides the order of the Department I-c, I think you just read it, is dated 19 April -- that is then it was right in the middle of the severest actions, just before the Army capitulated; at that time the Commander in Chief had different things to do than to be concerned with a lieutenant sent by Rosenberg who wants to look at a few archives.
Q In view of that no one bothered to tell you that this task force Rosenberg was carrying on its activities in this area?
A I learned about that through the report by Lt. von Ingram, otherwise I might not even have heard about it, and most likely I wouldn't have heard about it.
Q When did Lt. von Ingram come to see you, do you recall?
A I cannot say that for certain. It must have been, as far as I recollect, in Saloniki, and according to this letter of Rosenberg it must have been before 23 April, unless this letter of Rosenberg's is based on a discussion with the Department I-c. In any case it was before 26 April, because on the 27th of April I went to Athens. In this connection may I point out something else -- in the rear area of the Army it says in an order, which was also only made known to me here, that confiscation of material is to be carried out by the secret field police. This shows clearly that it was not to be done by the SD, but by the secret field police, because no SD was subordinate to the commander of the rear area of the Army.
Q They were SD people, weren't they, these Rosenberg people?
A I don't know.
Q In any event you couldn't give them any orders?
A No.
Q Will you please hand the witness Document Book II; referring now to Exhibit 68, which appears at page 137 of Document Book 2, in English - I am sorry I don't have the German page, Your Honor - it is just a one page exhibit.
Q What kind of a document is it, please? It doesn't give the exhibit number here, what is the document number? 105? All right, I have got it.
Q You will note that is dated 2 October 1941, and comes from your I-c, and is addressed to the Detachment Rosenberg, and says, "Effective 1 October 1941, Detachment Rosenberg is assigned for rations, quarters and for discipline to Commander South Greece. Lt. Ritter von Ingram, the leader of the Detachment, is to make contact immediately with the Staff of the Commander Southern Greece." "For Wehrmacht Commander Southeast, The Chief of the General Staff, Colonel General Staff Corps."
A Yes, that is right.
Q Did they ever tell you about this, that they were in charge of this SD unit for matters in addition to rations and quarters, including discipline, and that they were ordering them to report to the commander Southern Greece?
A I have no knowledge of this subordination, because the Chief did not think it necessary to report to me because a small staff which was only looking at archives was there. There is something I would like to point out, you said that these people were members of the SD, the command Rosenberg had nothing to do with the SD, they weren't SD people. The command Rosenberg was a command which consisted of some personalities of the Staff Rosenberg which had the task to investigate certain ideological documents or documents directed against the Reich which were contained in these archives. I take it thus from the exhibit which you just showed me before, but Rosenberg had nothing to do with the SD, on the contrary Rosenberg had had a fight with Bormann because Bormann didn't want Rosenberg to intervene in these matters. All I can say is that Rosenberg was possibly under the control of the SD to a certain extent. In this sense I have to understand Rosenberg's letter, Rosenberg had had differences of opinion with Bormann, because Bormann didn't want Rosenberg to deal with these matters in the Southeast. Obviously Bormann meant to give these orders on his own initiative. The SD had nothing to do with Rosenberg as far as I can recollect, and as far as I am informed. Rosenberg only wanted the SD to help him.
Q Who was the Chief of Staff at the time that the order -
A That was the then Col. Foertsch.
Q If I may finish my question. - At the time that Exhibit 68 was issued your Chief of Staff was the Defendant Foertsch?
A The order of the 2nd of October?
Q Yes.
A Yes, that is right.
Q. Thank you. Now, at that time who was the commander of Southern Greece?
AAs far as I know it was Felmy.
Q Now, you recall that, perhaps you could take us over some of these dates when you were in and out; maybe we can start from the end and work back. It was on the 17 October 1941 that you were operated on in the hospital at Athens, Greece, for appendicitis, is that right?
A Yes.
Q And just for a moment to go beyond that, you stayed in the hospital until sometime early in December of that year?
A Yes.
Q Could you help me with the date in December?
A I beg your pardon.
Q Could you help me with the date in December when you left the hospital.
A I beg your pardon, I did not understand the question. On the 6th of December, it might have been the 8th of December - December 8.
Q And when you left your command, in October to go to the hospital it was on the 15th, was it not?
A Yes, on the 15th of October; I beg your pardon, it might have been on the 16th of October. At least on the 15th I had to stay in bed.
Q You either left on the 15th or you were in bed on the 15th; in any event you were operated on on the 17th.
A Yes, on the 15th I was obliged to go to bed. On the 17th I was operated on. I don't know for sure whether it was the 15th or 16th that I was brought from my quarters to the hospital.
Q Now shortly before that you had been in Crete. Can you help me with those dates.
A I was on Crete during the time of the 8th up to the 11th of October.
Q Do you remember when you came back on the 11th?
A During the course of the afternoon.
Q And then prior to the 8th of October were you in Athens all the time after you got back from leave sometime late in August?
A That was on the 24th of August; then I was in Athens.
Q And you were there all the time until the 8th when you went to Crete?
A Yes.
Q When did you go on leave?
A On the 23rd of July I left Belgrade.
Q And you went to Vienna and then you went down to the suburb of Garnisch and stayed there?
A Yes.
Q You were in Serbia and Yugoslavia for several days prior to the 23rd of July 1941, were you not?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall how long you were there?
Couvt V, Case 7
A From the 21st until the 23rd I was there, that is July.
Q Now during your absence on leave who was acting on your behalf as Armed Forces Commander Southeast and Commanding General of the 12th Army?
A I believe that was General Felmy.
Q And when you were in Servia did you hear anything about General Lontschar. Did you know General Lontschar?
A No.
Q Never heard of him?
A I have now heard about him from these documents.
Q The first time that you ever heard that in Serbia on the 18th of July, three days before you were there, that a General in an Army's car had been shot at, and someone else in the car had been wounded, was here in the Courthouse?
A I do not recollect in any case at that time I have learned of this in Nish or Belgrade.
Q When you were in Belgrade prior to your departure on leave you said that you may have given some oral orders. Do you recall that?
A I did at that time talk to General Bader and I talked to a number of Divisional Commanders and it can be assumed that we discussed what they could do against this Parting of an uprising but I cannot remember details. For that purpose there did not seem to be any cause at that time.
Q Was not there among the Divisional Commanders some general talk about the uprising in Serbia? You don't have any recollection of what took place at that time?
A There had been uprisings in Serbia, sabotage acts. I myself could not go from Nish to Belgrade on the 21st which I intended to do, but all of a sudden I had to go by plane because there were interruptions of the railway line between Nish and Belgrade and in Belgrade itself there was reason for great caution against surprise attacks.
We passed through town very quickly and I was quite heavily guarded because surprise attacks and surprise murders occurred everywhere. Of course I was told about it, but the suppression of this had already been started and was in the process of being carried out.
Q The situation at that time then was critical in Serbia?
A Yes, it was critical; that's right.
Q And you were very concerned about it?
A Yes, I was concerned. Any uprising in an occupied country..... if, for instance, here in Germany there would be about twenty surprise attacks every day, the bridges of the Autobahn would be dynamited, if soldiers of the American Army were ambushed, then the American authorities would be concerned too. If I may say so, I would not have gone on leave if it hand't been very necessary because I had a stomach ailment which I had acquired in Crete.
Q Now, during your leave did you get any reports in Partenkirchen as to what was happening in the Southeastern area?
A I can't say that today anymore to what extent I was informed. I did see a couple of reports but my knowledge at the moment does not tell me to what extent I was informed. Of course I was not kept posted, about everything that went on.
Q How were you posted of whatever knowledge you did acquire about the operations in your command in your absence?
A I have just said I can't recollect any more to what extent I was informed, and what exact knowledge I had.
Q Did anyone speak to you by phone?
A I got mail by courier. There was no telephonic communication.
Q Did you get any mail from your acting deputy, General Felmy?
A No.
Q Did you get any nail from your Chief of Staff, Colonel Foertsch?
A Yes, certainly; I think I did.
Q But you don't recall what he advised you about?
A No.
MR. DENNEY: Would this be a convenient place to interrupt, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: You wish to recess at this time?
MR. DENNEY: If we could. I am about to go into a new subject and I would appreciate it if Your Honor would take a recess.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take a recess at this time.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please find find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
BY MR. DENNEY:
Q May it please your Honors, do you recall being asked by withdrawn. Will you please hand the witness Document Book 1 in German? I am referring now to Document 22 which is at page 76 of the English and page 55 of the German Book 1. This is a report from the Chief of the Security Police of the SD, 22 July 1941. It says that in reprisal for the attempted attack on the life of the German general, 52 Communist Jews and families of band members in the villages of Vzice, Valjevo and Cacac were shot to death on the 20th. Did you ever hear of that incident?
A I don't t know any longer whehter I heard about it or not. I cannot recollect it. It didn't remain in my memory.
Q Then if you will turn over to the next exhibit which is Exhibit 23, this is extracts from the activity report of the 704th Division which was under the 65th Coros at this time, that is July 1941, and the 65th Corps was under the 12th Army. Is that correct?
A Yes, it is correct.
Q And you will note in that under the date of 20 July 1941, Valjevo, it is on about the third page or perhaps the second, the second page of the original, the same incident is recited. Did you ever have any knowledge of it through this source? Through the 65th Corps by reports which might have been sent up to you?
A This activity report I didn't know for sure. This activity report originates from the 704th Division. I never had a possibility to look at it. The same applies to the previous document which is the report from the chief of the Security Police in Berlin to the Reichsfuehrer SS.
Q And you don't recall anybody calling your attention to the fact that these 52 people were executed because of this attack and/or at any later time?
AAll I say is I cannot remember whether I was informed or not. I don't know.
Q It is page 54 of the German. This is Exhibit 555, and Book 24, which is at page 85 of the English and page 54 of the German copy of that document book. It is dated 8 September 1941 and recites that 50 guilty Communists were executed as reprisal for an attack on a soldier at the station of Belgrad-Fopicer. Do you ever recall having that come to your attention?
A Concerning this report, as well as all others, I cannot recollect today whether details were reported to me or whether I was only generally informed, I cannot recollect that today.
I have already said it this morning or yesterday that it is impossible for me to say now after six years that I have been informed or not been informed of individual matters. I have just a very general impression of the uprising but whether any particular messages were given to me and whether any particular events were reported to me I cannot say anymore.
On a large scale, I have certainly been informed but to name individual cases it is impossible. The same applies when I recollect the campaign against France. I remember the campaign as a whole but I cannot recollect individual messages that were submitted to me at that time. It is simply impossible.
Q Do you have any present recollection of having been informed at that time - say July, August and early September of 1941- that people were being executed at the ratio of 50 to 1 for woundings?
A That the reports were made to me on the basis of the Keitel order and that these occurrences came to my knowledge on the basis of the reports, that may well be so.
Q I am now directing your attention to these dates specifically in July, August and September, which were prior to the Keitel order.
Do you remember having been advised of executions at the rate mentioned during that period?
A I can only say the same, Mr. Prosecutor, as I have just said before. Today I can't say any more that I did know a specific report. All I can say, it is possible that I knew about it, and today I do not know for sure whether I did or not.
Q Will you hand him Book 2, please? It is exhibit 59 at page 95 in the English Book 2, it is about the 16th page in the Exhibit-it is the report of 4/9/1941 for September.
A Page 63 of the German.
Q Do you recall having been advised of that, that in reprisal for the killing of a soldier in Belgrade on the 3rd of September, 50 people were executed?
MR. DENNEY: It is page 95 of the English document book 2, your Honor, of Exhibit 59.
FIELD MARSHAL LIST: I beg your pardon, on which page in the German is it?
MR. DENNEY: I thought you told me.
BY MR. DENNEY
Q. Do you recall having been advised of that in this report which is directed to your office?
A. I can only say the same as I have said before, that I cannot recollect it now anymore but that it is quite possible that the report was submitted to me. Generally speaking, I was informed about events and therefore it is possible, even likely, that I was informed of this occurrence but today I cannot recollect it any longer.
Q. Thank you. Will you hand him hook 2 again, Exhibit 43, Exhibit 42, I am sorry. This is on page 23 of the English copy of book 2, your Honor, and I will tell you it is page 21 of the German.
I am directing your attention to -- do you recall this order which was sent out on 5 September 1941?
A. Yes.
Q. When, to your knowledge, was the first time that you ordered hostages to be taken?
A. Yes.
Q. No, I say when did you first order hostages to be taken? You don't have to look at the order now. I am not talking about that.
A. The first order for the taking of hostages...that is, an order to that effect had not been issued by me before.
Q. This is the first time you gave such an order?
A. Yes. Orders from the OKH must have been in existence before that.
Q. Well, do you recall what orders you got from the OK--excuse me. Who gave you the orders---OKW or OKH?
A. They must have been in existence from the OKH in Serbia in my opinion, and I am sure that orders came during my time from the OKW.