"Widersetzlichkeit" is active whereas "insubordination" does not have to be active and I believe in this case, for the evaluation of this particular case, it has a special meaning. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to suggest another translation but I would like to ask the interpreters again to think it over.
THE PRESIDENT: The matter will be submitted to the interpreters for their decision.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: This is on page 27 of the Englich and page 26 of the German under 1.8 SD.
THE INTERPRETER: I might suggest another word, "resistance", but in my mind "insubordination" could also be active. In other words, if someone does not subordinate he does something active. It is rather difficult to make a distinction there. From my own knowledge of the languages, I would say "insubordination" could well be used as read. "Resistance" would be a little too strong, but I can suggest it.
THE PRESIDENT: Judge Carter has suggested the word, "non-cooperative."
DR. LATERNSER: Mr. President, I believe that the word as mentioned now, "resistance" would fit best because at that time the Italian Army had already fallen off, did not belong to the German any more. If they use the word, "insubordination", that means that the person in question is under an obligation to obey. However, that was not the case any more and on activity -
THE PRESIDENT: May I suggest that we take the translation as suggested now by the translator and with that I believe there will be no necessity for any further comments on that particular matter.
DR. LATERNSER: Mr. President, which word do you suggest is to be used now?
THE PRESIDENT: "Resistance."
DR. LATERNSER: I agree to that and I therefore ask for an order, on page 37 as well as page 36 of the English document book, to correct these pages correspondingly.
That is page 36 and 37.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If Your Honors please, at this time we should like to discontinue the presentation of documents in Document Book XIII and put on a prosecution witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR. DENNEY: May it please your Honors, we would request that the Court direct the Marshal to summon the witness, Zivojin Iovanovitch. That is spelled Z i v o j i n I o v a n o v i t c h.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, you will present the interpreter and the witness to the Court.
MR. DENNEY: Your Honors, please, the witness does not speak any English and the interpreter is Mr. Targoni, who is thoroughly familiar with both the Serbian language and the English language; and the procedure which will be followed is that which has been followed in other cases where we have a third language, two basic languages here being German and English. The questions will be put in English. The questions will be interpreted by the regular interpreters into German for the benefit of the Defendants and their counsel. The question will be interpreted into Serbian from the English by Mr. Targoni. The witness will make his reply into the microphone in Serbian. He will make pauses as he replies. Mr. Targoni will take note and then Mr. Targoni will speak into the same microphone in English, and the regular interpreters can make a simultaneous translation from the English into the German for the benefit of the defendants and their counsel and such other people, including the German court reporters and those listening on the German channel in the court room.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Targoni, if you will raise your right hand and be sworn?
I, Vasilijek Targoni, do solemnly swear that I will perform my duties as interpreter to this Tribunal to the best of my ability and skill.
(The interpreter repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn.
I swear that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DENNEY:
Q. What is your name?
A. My name is Zivosin Iovanovitch.
MR. DENNEY: Perhaps I might spell it in order that there may be no confusion in the record. It's Z i v o j i n, and the second name:
Item-Oboe-Victor-Able-Nan-Oboe-Viktor-Item-Tear-Charlie-How.
BY MR. DENNEY:
Q. Where were you born?
A. I was born in Vranje.
MR. DENNEY: That is spelled: Victor-Roger-Able-Nan-Jig-Easy.
BY MR. DENNEY:
Q. And where is Vranje?
A. Vranje is a Federal Republic of Serbia.
Q. When were you born?
A. I was born on the 4th of September, 1902.
Q. How much schooling did you have?
A. Two courses of elementary school.
Q. Where have you lived?
MR. DENNEY: Withdrawn.
Q. When did you move to Kragujevac?
A. I moved to Kragujevac in 1911.
Q. And have you lived there since?
A. I always lived in Kragujevac, since 1911 up until now.
Q. What was your employment prior to 1941, April?
A. I was graduated in the Military-Technical Military Plant in Kragujevac.
Q. And did you continue to work in the Technical Military Armament Plant at Kragujevac after the German occupation?
A. After the occupation I continued my work as a clerk in the Military Technical Plant in Kragujevac.
Q. Were you given some instructions subject to April of 1941?
A. I was sent to a training center, - German Training Center known as "Goering-Werke", and I was certified there as a bookkeeper.
Q. After this training as a bookkeeper where did you go?
A. The training center was in the Military Technical Plant in Kragujevac. I remained on duty until I finished this course.
Q. How large a town is Kragujevac?
A. Kragujevac is about 35,000 inhabitants.
Q. In what direction is it from Belgrade?
A. Southwest direction.
Q. About how far?
A. 30 kilometers.
Q. And, if Your Honors please, it is submitted that that is approximately 78 miles, more or less.
Are you married?
A. I am married.
Q. Do you have any children?
A. I have a daughter.
Q. How old is your daughter?
A. She is over 17 years old now.
Q. Directing your attention now to the period of September, 1941, will you tell the Tribunal what happened to you at that time?
A. I will tell.
Q. You may proceed, if you will please.
A. On the 17th of September, 1941, I was working in my office in the Military Technical Plant in Kragujevac. On that day I got a telephone call to go to some other office in the Military Technical Plant, and this office was away from the building I was usually working. When I arrived at the office I found there three armed German soldiers and the chief of this office told me, "You will follow these men."
Q. May I interrupt there? Were these, -- what kind of uniforms did these men have on?
A. In the usual German Amy uniforms, with the insignia GFB.
Q. Please continue.
A. We entered into a car and they took me to the building where they were stationed. In the room they took me in, there was a captain and a Lt, an interpreter and a typist. They started with questioning me, imputing me that I was a member of the illegal underground organization. I denied this, because I was not a member in any of the underground organizations.
MR. DENNEY: Let me interrupt there for a moment, did you over do anything to help, either before 17 September, 1941 or after September, 1941 - did you ever do anything to help the partisans or chetniks?
A. No, I never have helped anybody because I am a poor men. I got my family and I have to take care about them.
Q. In fact, you had been working for the German occupation forces from the time of their occupation in April until 17 September, 1941?
A. I was working for the German occupation of Kragujevac, as a bookkeeper in the Military Technical Plant in Kragujevac
Q. Please continue.
A. Because I denied being a member of the illegal organization, they started to beat me; they beat me for about one hour and some more, maybe. The Lieutenant beat me, and the interpreter always was telling me, "You have to admit; you have to admit."
After about two hours, and a quarter of an hour, they stopped to beat me, because they broke the lamp. The first thing I didn't tell, because I could not tell that I was a member of the illegal organization. I always denied that. After that they told me, "You still have time to think this matter over in jail."
They took me into a car and took me into a Serbian jail, and told the men in charge of the Serbian jail to put me into a cell. I stayed there in a cell in the Serbian jail up to the 20th of October 1941.
Q. This jail was manned by Serbian Guards?
A. Yes, this jail was subordinated to Serbian authorities.
DR. LATERNSER: I object to this question. It is a leading question and not admissible.
MR. DENNEY: If your Honors please, I am trying to help the witness and the court. He was testifying he was taken to a Serbian jail.
PRESIDENT WENNERSTRUM: The objection is overruled. By the tone of his voice it was given as a question.
MR. DENNEY: I shall be very careful not to lead the witness. Perhaps we may see some more of it later, however.
Q. How big was the cell in which you were?
A. The cell was long, - about two meters, - and wide about 70 centimeters, without any windows.
Q. Did you ever get served with any papers, or were you ever interrogated; did anyone every tell you why you were in there?
A. No, I was never interrogated in the Serbian jail. I was interrogated only in the building of GFB, before I was in jail.
Then I was told that I would be arrested because I was a member of the illegal organization.
Q. During the period which you were in jail, you never received any official charge sheet indicating why you were being held, and no one ever came to see you to tell you the reason for your detention?
A. At that time "between the 17 September and 20 October in the Serbian jail, nobody came to tell me why I was arrested and nobody gave me any papers, any documents; Nobody interrogated me.
Q. Tell the Court what happened on the 20th of October.
MR. DENNEY: All right, tell the Court what happened on the 20th of October.
A On the 20th of October German armed soldiers arrived at the jail and ordered me to get out of my cell and go to the courtyard. We went to the courtyard, and we met there a Serbian who counted us. After he finished counting he said fifty-three.
Q These other people who were in the courtyard with you, of what nationalities were they?
A They were all Serbians but one who was a Jew.
Q Did you recognize any of the people?
A When we entered into the courtyard I recognized several of them. I used to know one of them who was an attorney and another man, but several of them I knew from seeing them in Kragujevac.
Q And then what happened?
A The German armed soldiers in the courtyard put us into a marching column and we started our march through the city. We were marching along the main street surrounded by German armed soldiers and then I could see other groups of German soldiers going into the houses in other small streets leading to the main streets. These German soldiers collected people from the houses and took them to the main street.
Q How far was it from the jail to the first place that you stopped?
A It took about half an hour.
Q And how many soldiers were around you during that march--that is, around your group?
A There were about twenty-five German soldiers.
Q Were they armed?
A They were armed.
Q What kind of weapons did they have?
A They were armed with machine guns, sub-machine guns, and automatic weapons.
Q Now, where did these soldiers take you?
A They took us to the courtyard of the Artillery barracks, in the city of Kragujevac.
Q And what did you see when you got there?
A When we entered into the courtyard of the artillery barracks I could see three big hangars filled with prisoner Serbians. I saw that they were at the windows and the doors because the Germans tried to push some more people inside, but they couldn't; they were filled up.
Q How many people were in the courtyard itself, excluding the barracks?
AAt that time there were about 1,000 people in the courtyard, at the moment of our arrival.
Q And did they maintain our group separately, or did they mix them up with the other people?
A No, our group was kept separately. We got an order to sit down and not to talk to anybody; otherwise we would be killed. They repeated that we have to stay still--not to talk to anybody, otherwise they must kill all of us.
Q What happened while you were sitting there?
A I have seen some additional groups of population taken by Germans into the courtyard from the city, and I saw some mistreatment. For instance, if somebody couldn't walk fast, these people were kicked by the Germans.
Q And for how long did they continue to bring people into the courtyard?
A They were bringing people in up to about 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
Q Did you have anything to eat while you were there?
A No, we didn't receive anything to eat.
Q Anything to drink?
A Neither.
Q Then what happened?
A I remember very well one group of students of the first class of high school, about fourteen years old, taken along by Germans with their teachers. They arrived in the courtyard with school books. They were taken from the school.
Q Did you see anybody else come in that you were able to recognize?
A There was another group which struck me. There were about five priests--five or six priests, and then some other people. I remember very well one of them--one of these priests.
Q What was his name?
A He was a priest named Cvetic.
Q That is spelled C V E T I C.
Have you ever seen him since?
A I have never seen him since.
Q And he was a priest from Kragujevac?
A Yes, he was a priest from Kragujevac.
Q Now, there came a time when you left the courtyard at the artillery barracks. Will you please tell the Court what preceded that and where you went.
AAbout 11 o'clock came a German officer--a tall German officer-into the courtyard surrounded with some other people. He was giving some orders. I couldn't hear them, but he showed some directions and explained something. After that I realized that he was indicating places where the shooting should take place on the following day.
Q About what time was it that this officer came?
A It was about 11 o'clock.
Q 11 o'clock in the morning?
A Yes.
Q This was shortly after you arrived there?
A Yes, it was shortly after our arrival.
Q And how long did you stay after that until you left?
AAbout 5 o'clock and maybe some later.
Q 5 o'clock in the afternoon of the 20th?
A Yes, 5 o'clock in the afternoon of the 20th of October.
Q And then you did leave, and then what happened?
AAt that time arrived another group of German soldiers armed in the same way as the previous one.
They surrounded our group and took us out in the courtyard.
Q Where did you go?
A We started our march to the outskirts of Kragujevac into the direction of another artillery barracks in Kragujevac.
We didn't enter into the courtyard of this other artillery barrack but we continued our march for about 200 more meters. At that moment, I saw a short German officer running towards our column and shouting in Serbian "Stoj"--that is to say, "stop."
MR. DENNEY: And if your Honors please, I believe we recall a document which had the word "Stoj" that equals "halt" in it. Continue.
MR. JOVANOVIC: In the vicinity of this German officer, I could see some bodies lying around but it was a bit darl so one couldn't recognize well the people lying on the ground.
MR. DENNEY: What did you do then?
MR. JOVANOVIC: Because I had seen these people lying around on the ground, I realized that we had to be shot and I decided to escape. I got out from the columns and started to run in the direction which is near Kragujevac. I was running away and I heard a general shooting behind me. Running away from the group, I passed a German guard who was staying on the gate leading to the artillery barracks.
MR. DENNEY: And then what did you do?
MR. JOVANOVIC: Running away, I passed this guard and entered into the first courtyard, the first house in the outskirts of Kragujevac. I jumped over the fence and entered the second house and jumped over some more fences.
MR. DENNEY: Then what happened?
MR. JOVANOVIC: There was another man running away from the group, together with me. I couldn't see him but when I reached the first fence I saw this man on the left side from me. I jumped over some more fences and getting out from the last courtyard, I ran into another German guard.
MR. DENNEY: What did you do then?
MR. JOVANOVIC: I stopped and recollecting several German words I knew, I begged of him not to kill me and explained to him that I had a mother, a wife, and a child.
MR. DENNEY: What did he do?
MR. JOVANOVIC: He asked me only whether I belonged to the upper group of people.
MR. DENNEY: What did you say?
MR. JOVANOVIC: I answered that I was in this group.
MR. DENNEY: Did you know what the upper group was?
MR. JOVANOVIC: Yes, I did. I realized that this German guard was asking whether I was in the column who was led by Germans to the shooting place.
MR. DENNEY: Then what happened?
MR. JOVANOVIC: He took me by the sleeve and led me into the direction of the place from which I had run away. He told me "Vorwaerts." He took me along a small street leading to the same place where I started my escape.
MR. DENNEY: And did you run into somebody on the way back?
MR. JOVANOVIC: When we reached the first guard which I passed in my running away, this guard gave a sign to the guard escorting me to get away. This first guard wanted to shoot at me but the guard who was escorting me didn't want to get away but shot himself. He wounded me in the back in the left side. The bullet came out in the front side.
MR. DENNEY: Then what happened?
MR. JOVANOVIC: I fell down but didn't lose consciousness. I heard some talks. I couldn't understand all but I understood that the guard who shot me asked for a pistol from the second guard. This one not having a pistol - because this one did not have a pistol the guard who shot me once shot at me the second time.
MR. DENNEY: Where did he shoot you the second time when you were lying down?
MR. JOVANOVIC: He shot me at the left side of my back. The bullet went out from this part (indicating on upper chest just below shoulder); it scratched my cheek and wounded me in the middle finger on the left hand.
MR. DENNEY: And then what happened?
MR. JOVANOVIC: I realized that there was immediate danger of being killed.
I concentrated all my power to remain still and not to show any signs of life. I heard some talks between these two German guards. I couldn't understand everything but I understood very well one word I have heard clearly, "Fertig." I understood they considered me killed and I felt much easier after that.
MR. DENNEY: You never lost consciousness?
MR. JOVANOVIC: No, never. I was always conscious.
MR. DENNEY: And later did you succeed in getting away?
MR. JOVANOVIC: Yes, I left this place. I couldn't tell how long I stayed there but it was night when I left this spot.
MR. DENNEY: And how far did you go?
MR. JOVANOVIC: I stayed in this place up until late at night and then more crawling than walking I left this place and went about three kilometers far from it. It took me more than two hours.
MR. DENNEY: And did you come to a house?
MR. JOVANOVIC: I went to the first house on the outskirts of Kragujevac, this house belonged to a woman whom I used to know. I asked her to let me in but she wouldn't accept me so I stayed in the open in the courtyard of this house.
MR. DENNEY: Did you ask the woman to do anything for you in addition to letting you in?
MR. JOVANOVIC: Yes. I asked for help but she didn't dare to do that because she was afraid of Germans. Finally I succeeded to persuade her to inform my wife and she did it early in the morning.
MR. DENNEY: Now, in the morning-
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, Mr. Denney, we will adjourn at this time until one-thirty.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
THE MARSHALL: The persons in the court room will be seated.
The Tribunal is again in session.
PRESIDING JUDGE WENNERSTRUM: Pardon me a minute, Mr. Denney. May I say to the defendants, if the weather conditions are such that they are exceedingly warm if they want to unbutton their coats it is their privilege and the court will take no exception to it. If you wish to change your tightened garb in which you came to the court room during this warm weather the court will not take any exceptions to your changing from your present uniform to something which will be more in keeping with the type of weather that we are now having. That may be worked out by you and your counsel. As I understand it the Prosecution has no objection and the Tribunal certainly does not have any objection. You may proceed.
WITNESS YOVANOVIC -resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. DENNEY:
Q If you Honors please: Witness, we had reached the point int your testimony where you had gone to a house, asked the person residing in that house to call your wife back or remain outside the house. Did you spend the balance of the night outside the house?
A Yes, I spent the night outside in the courtyard.
Q What happened in the morning?
A In the morning I can't tell exactly what time was it or how late was it, but I believe it was about six o'clock in the morning I had firing on the other end of Kragujevac. At the same time I heard rifles screaming, coming from the city.
Q The screaming and firing lasted for how long?
A I have heard that until about 11 o'clock in the morning and how long was it later I don't know because at that time I was taken already by horse-drawn vehicle to a hospital.
Q This firing, what did it sound like? Was it heavy artillery firing, large field pieces, canons, or was it small arms fire?
A It was mostly shooting from rifles, usually infantry rifles.
Q Was the firing constant, did it go on all the time or was it sporadic? Did you hear some and it stopped and then started again?
A It was almost constantly up until 11 O'clock.
Q Now, what happened which caused you to leave this place by the house where you spent the night; you said a horse-drawn vehicle came and took you away.
A I asked the woman from the house where I spent the night outside, still in the night time, that she should inform my wife about what happened to me so she did in the morning and my wife arrived with the horse-drawn vehicle and took me to the hospital.
Q How long were you at the hospital?
A I spent in the hospital about one hour.
Q How long did it take you to go from the place where your wife picked you up with the horse cart, to the hospital?
A It would be about one hour.
Q And did you see anybody in the hospital?
A I have seen at the hospital doctors and some patients.
Q Did you see anybody else?
A Later on, about an hour from there, there came about four soldiers from the Serbian Voluntary Battalion and they took me away from the hospital imputing to me that I was the person who fired some rifle on the soldiers during last night.
Q These were Serbian soldiers?
A Yes, they were Serbian soldiers.
Q Serbian soldiers who were serving with the Germans?
A They were the soldiers belong to the Fourth Voluntary Battalion Serbian under the Command of Marica Petrovic in relation with Germans.
Q That is spelled M-A-R-I-C-A- P-E-T-R-O-V-I-C. Then where did they take you.
A They took me away imputing that I was the person who fired some shots on them during the last night but it was impossible because the last night I was wounded and laying on the ground outside of the house at Kragujevac.
Q Witness, you must pay attention to the questions, and to what I say. I asked you where did they take you. Please pay attention and try to make your answers responsive.
A They took me from the hospital to their headquarters.
Q The headquarters of the Fourth Serbian Voluntary Battalion?
A Yes, to Headquarters of the Fourth Serbian Voluntary Battalion.
Q What happened there?
A They took me to the headquarters and started interrogations imputing me always that I fired some shots at them last night. I refused it and denied it always and another soldier me on the stairs, hit me in such a way that I fell down the stairs. They handed me to another guard in the courtyard and told me that I will be put before the court martial next morning.
Q Where did you spend that night?
A I spent this night in the guard house.
Q At the headquarters?
AAt the Headquarters of the Fourth Voluntary Serbian Battalion.
Q When did they release you?
A I spent the whole night there for sometime and they released me in the morning because they were sure that I wasn't the person in question.
Q Where did you go?
A I went straight home.
Q And after you were home did someone come to your house?
A In the morning I was released in the morning and went home; I don't remember exactly the time but sometime in the afternoon, the very same day there came 3 persons from headquarters of GFB and they told me not to leave the house and as soon as I recovered, my daughter was to come and inform the headquarters of GFB that I am all right.
MR. FRITSCH: DR. Fritsch for the defendant Rendulic. Your Honor, the objection which my colleague, Dr. Laternser, made I want to join in his objection. I must state here that the questions which are given to this witness here are leading questions. Obviosuly, it is very important for us to test the credibility of this witness regarding each question, but when the Prosecution questions the witness in a way that he puts the answer in his mouth, then in even less important questions it is very difficult for us to find out how far this comes from the own knowledge of the witness and how the witness feels on the individual points, and how the witness approached the things at that time. I would like to ask the Prosecutor to put simple questions which can not anticipate in any way the answers.
THE PRESIDENT: I think the objection which counsel has made does not apply to all the questions that have been presented to the witness. I do feel in one or two exceptions he has led the witness somewhat, and I caution him and ask him to watch that feature of his interrogation. I think under the circumstances there may come times when you to have to ask leading questions in a situation such as we have here, working through an interpreter, but until that time happens I see no cause for asking leading questions.
You may proceed.
MR. DENNEY: I might add parenthetically for your Honors, none of this testimony concerns the client of Dr. Fritsch. This is all in October 1941.
Q How, these people, ---and I am recapitulating what the witness said. Dr. Fritsch was up here without the earphones on, so he may assume I am leading the witness again ---these G.F.P. people came to your house on the 21st and told you not to leave, and when you were well your daughter should come and tell them; how long did you stay in your house?
A I spent at home about 20 days.
Q And when you recovered did you return to your position?
A In about 20 days I left my house for the first time and went to the building of the G.F.P. I asked them whether I am allowed to find some job and do that, and what is my position now. I was answered that I am free and I can look for some job again.
Q And did you find a job later?
A Yes, I got a job with the tax office in Kragujevac on the 1st of February 1942.
Q Did you continue to hold that job until the liberation?
A Yes.
Q Now, going back to the period before you got the job with the tax commission in Kragujevac, and after you left your house recovering from your wonds, which would have been sometime around between roughly say the 8th and 14th of November, what did you do?
A I spent most of my time at home, and was getting out of the house very few and far between time, because I was not feeling too well still.
Q Did you ever return from the place from which you had fled on 20 October?
A Yes, I went there. I can't remember exactly when it was, but I am pretty sure that it was in the period when I had been for the first time in the building of G.F.P. and I would say during the first month I left the house.
A What did you see there?
A I went only to the first, to the first beach and it was pretty bad, it was maybe the 9th of November. I could see some blood and some water coming out from this area, which was covered, and there was still a terrible stinking around.
Q Did you ever see any of the soldiers who were involved in these various incidents which you have described prior to that day when you saw them on the 20th or did you ever see any of them subsequently?
A Which soldiers?
Q You saw the German soldiers who guarded you in the artillery barracks when you were there?
A I didn't know them personally.
Q Well, had you seen any of them before, to you knowledge?
A I have never seen them personally, but I saw later on some of these soldiers and soldiers in the same uniform in Kragujevac.
Q Soldiers wearing similar uniforms, but so far as you know you never saw any of them who were the same people, you didn't recognize their faces?
A No, I had never seen them.
Q Now, as you looked around Kragujevac after you left the house and during the subsequent weeks what, it anything, did you see which attracted your attention?
A On the first day when I left my home and was going to report to the headquarters of G.F.P. I saw a poster in the window of a shop telling that 1200 people have been shot because 12 German soldiers have been killed, somewhere in Kraljevo, and there were a long likst of 1200 names of this post.
Q You didn't count the names of the list, did you?
A No, I didn't. I saw the last counted number on the list and the number was 1200.
Q Now, did you see anything else that indicated to you that people had been killed on the 20th of October?
A Yes, according to the customs in Serbia there were black flags on every house from which a person was executed or killed, and there have been black posters with the names of the killed people, executed people, and even the pictures of these people, which was according to the usual practice in Yugoslavia.
Q Well, as you went around the town afterwards you saw many of these flags and these posters on the houses?