"DR. STEINBAUER: Then, you were not positively told that these people had died?
"VIEHWEG: I cannot say that under oath. I do not know I don't remember exactly."
I want to remind you of your oath, witness. I ask you, did you have any death cases or do you believe that such were consequences of your experiments?
A. Not a single person died in these experiments. No one was harmed. All the experimental subjects were released by me in a satisfactory condition and with a weight corresponding to their original weight. I was not able to have any body covered with a cloth and taken to the mortuary because there were no bodies. Several times, however, I sent experimental subjects over to the X-ray room, and it is true that I had them covered because they had to pass water, and I didn't want these thirsty people to see water all the time. That is the explanation of these "dead persons". Moreover, some of the experimental subjects were carried out into the court yard so we could photograph them. The testimony of the witness Viehweg is definitely a mistake if it is not anything else.
Q Do you remember the witness Viehweg?
A I remember having seen him. I noticed him because all the nurses working in the hospital when I had seen before, and my medical students and-so-firth, had a red triangle. I noticed that there was one nurse there with a green triangle. I inquired about that green triangle and I was told that that was for criminals. I was told that this man had quite a past.
Q Did you ever see Professor Eppinger in Dachau during the experiments?
A. Yes, Eppinger was there once with Berka and looked at the experiments. He was there in the experimental room or the laboratory for about an hour.
Q But, the witness. Tschpfening, says that Eppinger was in Dachau earlier and took care of setting up the experimental station?
A According to what has been said in the course of the presentation of evidence on the sea water experiments, it is quite impossible--Eppinger had nothing to do with the whole preliminaries, except that he was present at the discussion on the 25th of May. Before my arrival in Dachau no experimental station was set up or even talked about. This testimony of Tschofening, that Eppinger arranged an experimental station there is incorrect. His statement that Eppinger took advantage of the opportunity to convert prisoners to National Socialism, for everyone who knew Eppinger and his attitude is ridiculous and increditable. But this testimony had a part in harming Eppinger in his position in Vienna, and it probably had a considerable part in Eppinger's unfortunate decision to commit suicide. Only the final impetus, in the last years of his life, Eppinger suffered so much misfortunate, and was so often in dispair that it required only a small impetus to take that final step. Eppinger lost his only son in the war; his grandchild was killed by a bomb; his son-in-law was sent to Russia for service; Eppinger lost his home in an air raid; Eppinger was driven out of his clinic Epinner was refused permission to publish his scientific life's work.
And, for a man who had been honored throughout the world before these things brought him to dispair, at the end of such a rich life. Not in every suicide is there a confession of guilt; it can he the result of hopeless dispair.
A Eppinger had no more part in these experiments than that he was asked for his scientific opinion; that he gave his opinion; that he was asked to observe these experiments and to check with whether they were being performed correctly; that was all, and not one grain more.
Q Witness, I brought that up only because Mr. Hardy mentioned Eppinger and his suicide in a different connection. Let's go back to the experiments. I should like to ask you about the food after the end of the experiments?
A After the experiment was finished, the subject, for one or two days, got a very light diet. That was of course necessary because some of them had been fasting; because it is a mistake to give him a heavy diet immediately when a person has been fasting. They were given milk for one day and light foods for one or two days; that was not chicanery, that was a medical measure. After that they were given the relations of the flying personnel as they had been given before the experiment. When the second group was finished I had temporary difficulties with the food. There were about fifteen men. This was because the airfield from which I got the food had been bombed and the supplies had been burned out. I went to the kitchen of the camp, therefore, and requested food of the same number of calories as the flying personnel got. I had difficulties for one or two days until the supply from the Luftwaffe was re-established and this arrangement for high calorie food from the prisoners' kitchen for two days brought me into temporary difficulties with the SS. The prisoners did not get less; they really got more food. If I had given them the regular camp food I would not have had any further difficulties because the camp kitchen would have been obliged to supply this food.
Q Witness, at the end did you ascertain that all the experimental subjects were returned in good health?
A Before releasing the experimental subjects I performed a very careful examination of them. That was a matter of course. I ex amined them clinically; I made X-rays; I examined the electro-cardiogram; I repeated the blood analysis; the chemical blood analysis was made at the end and in none of the cases was there anything wrong.
I did not demand that they be given special care because they were sick but because I wanted them to have some time to recuperate and the affidavit will show I dictated these findings to the witness which showed that they were normal.
Q Do you consider it possible that complications came up later?
A I believe I have repeatedly emphasized my point of view that after a thirst experiment is interrupted the condition of thirst has come to an end once and for all. If one administers water everything is all right again. In all the literature on distress at sea available to me not a single case is described when there was any later complication because of thirst. The only cases of later complication are complications resulting from cold, that is, pneumonia or bronchitis and even these are very rare. I know from the English report that in about three hundred cases of distress at sea and rescue there were six or seven colds, catarrhs, and only one case of pneumonia. Now, my experimental subjects did not suffer cold; from thirst alone they could now have complications and as I said the sea water was examined bacteriologically and was found pure. It was impossible for them to have an intestinal diseases as a result, especially since we ourselves also drank this water and didn't notice any after effects because the incubation period of all such diarrhea diseases is so short that the diarrhea must have occurred while the persons were still under my observations.
Q Witness, I should like to open another chapter now. How much inside view do you have now to live in a concentration camp?
A Practically none; I was only admitted to our experimental room and laboratory; once I was in the pharmacy of the hospital in order to borrow equipment for the laboratory and several times I was in the kitchen to see to the preparation of food.
Those are the rooms which I saw during my stay in Dachau.
Q Could you come and go when and where you wanted in the camp?
A In the first two or three weeks on our way from the entrance to the camp on our way to the hospital room we were accompanied by an SS escort. Later because we often had to wait until a guard had to go with us - waited for fifteen minutes or longer at the gate, I asked that this be given up. The Adjutant of the Camp Commandant gave me and my associates permission to go these three hundred meters without a guard but I had to promise not to enter any other rooms in the camp except those assigned to us. I kept this promise and all my associates also had to make the same promise. Besides the guards and guard towers could watch us all the time from this way and it would have been very difficult for us to go to any forbidden regions.
Q Then you could not receive visitors without the permission of the Camp Administration?
A No.
Q In this connection, your Honor, I should like to refer to the question of Judge Sebring to the witness Horn, page 5382, in the German record where the witness describes how difficult it is even for a high Wehrmacht officer to get to the camp and move freely there. Witness, did you yourself live and eat in the camp or outside?
A The Camp Dachau consisted of three camps really, one was SS camp, one was the camp where the SS men of the concentration camp lived, and the third was the concentration camp itself. In the SS camp there was a hospital. In this we four doctors of the Luftwaffe were given a room and we lived there. That was outside the camp. We took our meals in restaurants and had practically no contact therefore.
Q Were you subordinated to the SS in any capacity?
A We had been strictly obligated to conform to all orders of the SS and SS guards while we were in the camp. Otherwise we were an agency of our own and quite independent and for the experiments themselves the SS had no right of disposition and never interfered.
Q Witness, did you come into any other experimental stations during these experiments?
A No, I have already said, apart from the kitchen and the pharmacy, I did not enter any other room, nor any other experimental station. I did not even know the existence of some of them.
Q Now, what was the result of your experiments?
A The following results more or less were ascertained which I believe were not without importance. First of all to show that the small amounts of sea water are better than complete lack of water. This is shown because the loss of weight was much slower and loss of water much less; that the thickening of the blood was less; that the loss of nitrogen was less and that the non-protein nitrogen in the blood did not increase while in those without water it did increase. It was shown that a larger amount of sea water had no advantage over pure thirst but under some circumstances even had disadvantages. It was shown that the concentration power of the kidneys had to be taken to be much higher than hitherto believed and about 2.3 per cent could be achieved by almost anyone, with some even 3 per cent or more.
It was shown that this concentrating power of the kidney was not considerably influenced by vitamins. It was shown that sea water in limited doses does not cause diarrhea. It was shown that the subjective symptoms, the feeling of thirst after salt water, is about the same as in complete thirst, that objectively in small amounts of liquid even salty liquid is better.
It was shown that even small amounts of fresh water taken in between have variable effects. It was shown that the Schaefer drug supplies quite usable drinking water and that the Berka method is useless. It was shown that in the blood an increase of salt is caused by drinking sea water and a slight loss of calcium and that it is therefore advisable to introduce calcium if a person is drinking sea water for a considerable period.
It was shown that in the condition of hunger and thirst there is a relatively high loss of table salt and that, therefore, it is certainly expedient for a person who has thirsted for a considerable period of time to be given salt water that is a physiological solution of table salt.
It was shown that after the experiment -- that is, after a long period of thirst -- there is a quick water retention and that the only danger from thirst and hypertonic liquid is the loss of water by the body. It was shown that the introduction of liquid leads to a very quick recovery.
I know that these experiments have not brought out as much in the way of results as would have been the case if the experimental subjects had cooperated completely, especially since most of the experiments were interfered with by the persons drinking fresh water and the concentration power of the kidney was subjected to great variations. A strictly scientific evaluation is possible only in a limited extent but for practical decisions they were sufficient that what was found in principle agrees with what was later discovered by English and American workers, that small amounts of sea water are better than complete lack of water.
Now, through the discovery of Professor Ivy and Dr. Schaefer, we are able to make sea water drinkable. It might still be that with someone who is in distress at sea without having this drug with him and the knowledge that with small doses of sea water he can improve his lot, this knowledge is not useless. If the extension of life, according to the theoretical calculations, is now possible -- according to findings it might be only three or four days over complete thirst -still that might be decisive in practice.
Q Now, witness, after completing your experiments did you report on them to your superior authorities?
A Yes, in October 1944 I sent in a report.
Q Then I shall refer to the Schaefer document book 2, documents 14 and 19, the testimony of Heubner and Jehowsky, so that I will not have to submit affidavits of my own. Witness, why did you not publish the results of your experiments.
A I have already given the reasons why exact scientific evaluations was possible only to a limited extent. Personally, I had no interest in it because I had no scientific benefits to reap from these experiments. I refrained from doing so, not because I thought I had anything to keep secret.
Q Witness, are you even today of the opinion that, under the orders which were given to you, you carried out these experiments unobjectionably from the medical and scientific point of view?
A I have had almost a year and a half now to examine my conscience and I believe that I can answer your question in the affirmative. I carried them out just as I would have done in any hospital or clinic, if I had to perform them at all. I never considered my experimental subjects a substitute for experimental animals and it is not true that I lacked sympathy with them. I know exactly how difficult it is to suffer thirst. It is not that I didn't care that I had to ask them to do this, to suffer thirst during the days of the experiment, but I was not able to spare them this after they had volunteered for the experiment.
That I recognized the services of the experimental subjects at the end I believe I can say, not only in words but also by doing for them what I could. That I enjoyed these sufferings of my victims -- I was incapable of such a horrible thought. From the beginning I had serious misgivings and inner rejection of experiments on prisoners.
If I ignored my misgivings, I could still put up with the matter for several reasons: First of all, I was never of the opinion that I was doing anything illegal. If my superiors, the highest security authorities of the Reich, gave me such an assignment, then, in 1944 I had to believe that this could not be anything illegal. In 1944 I could not know that a few years later these laws would no longer be valid.
I overcame my misgivings because I was firmly convinced that my experimental subjects had volunteered for this certainly unpleasant experiment. I overcame them, furthermore, because I knew that distress of the time made such a possibility advisable but especially because from the medical point of view I considered that the rescue problem to be solved was the important thing and because I thought that if a person was to take on himself the sacrifice of going without food and drink for several days it will be in the interests of hundreds of others who would be in distress later, in war and peace, and they would benefit. It was not the negative side which motivated me but because of the positive goal I took the negative upon myself; and, under a military order and under a great personal, spiritual burden, I carried out this order; but I believe it would be illogical and hard to understand psychologically, if I did not want to perform experiments on prisoners from the beginning, I should go and mistreat the experimental subjects.
During my experiments I did not spare my own working capacity or that of my associates. I tried to carry out the experiments in such a way as to avoid any bodily harm and I am firmly convinced, even today, that I did not cause any harm.
I cannot reproach myself for having omitted any medical precautions which could be required. I have a quite clear conscience in this respect. I carried the experiment out with the seriousness and the scientific thoroughness which I had learned in my many years of university training, and at the moment when I stood behind this barbed wire for the first time I did not change basically and leave my former attitude and my former character outside; and that we really tried to do our best in these experiments Professor Ivy admitted later when he looked at the records of my experiments. He said, "You have made great efforts but you selected the wrong experimental subjects." It was not I who selected them. I was convinced from the beginning that it was an unfortunate choice but I was not capable, in spite of all the attempts which I made, to change this fact.
Q: Your Honors, the next document which I should like to submit is Exhibit No. 18, as Document No. 11, from Document Book i, page 25. This is an original letter from the defendant to his mother, written in Dachau on the 12 September, 1944. I shall read merely the first paragraph: "Dearest Mother:
Many thanks for your dear letter. I am sorry that lately I have been able to give you only occasional brief signs of life, as the mad rush to which we are subjected here did not permit of more. By and by also this job is coming to an end and I am not sorry about it. The results of my work are only fair. I had not planned it so but only carried out orders. I hope that I shall soon be able to return to my former office where I enjoyed the work much more."
MR. HARDY: This is document No. 11, Your Honors. I do not have that in my index.
THE PRESIDENT: It is not included in our index either.
MR. HARDY: Yes it is on page 25. I have found it.
THE PRESIDENT: It is in the document book on page 25.
BY DR. STEINBAUER:
Q: I want to ask you something. You said your work was only fair. What do you mean by that?
A: I had already evaluated most of the experiments at that time. We had seen that about two-thirds of the work had been in vain because it was quite clear that these people had some water and all of the work was in vain and what I had originally thought about the retention of salt was a mistake, that is, the results were relatively slight, in no proportion to the amount of work itself.
Q: The next document which I submit will be Exhibit No. 19, from Document Book I, Document 10, page 23. It is also a letter from the defendant to his parents in law from Dachau, 12 August 1944. I offer this letter on the question of the order and the voluntary approval. It reads: "Dear Ma and Pa;
After a very considerable delay I received your dear letter and the cigarettes for which I thank you very much.
This delay was due to my stupid transfer here, they sent on my mail only after I had finally 'settled down' and could give my unit my new address."
I shall skip the rest of the paragraph and read from the bottom of the page.
"Since 1 July I have been roaming about in the district and have wasted exactly one month at this time. Now after great toil and trouble and after enough vexation to last for more than a year I have set up shop there and can at last conduct the examinations which an unkind fate has sent me here. My feelings are those of Pontius only it nattered loss to him than to me.
"I shall probably hang around here until the beginning of September. Then, unless a bomb drops shortly before completion, ruining all my work and efforts, I hope to have finished and to say goodbye to this generally unpleasant place. Anyhow, the moment I board the train at Dachau railway station will count as one of the nicest and never to be forgotten of my life."
And then the last sentence:
"However, grumbling does not help."
Now I offer the Massion document, which I handed to the Tribunal today, the chart, it is in the second book, No. 31, page 113 to 116.
THE PRESIDENT: Has that not already been admitted as defendant Beiglboeck exhibit 12?
DR. STEINBAUER: Yes, that is the same document. Before I was just offering the chart and now I want to offer the document to make the Tribunal acquainted with the whole plan of the experiments. It is on page 113:
"I, the undersigned --"
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, I see no reason why they cannot be both admitted as Beiglboeck Exhibit No. 12, and treated as one document.
DR. STEINBAUER: Yes, I merely want to read it now. I did not read it before.
THE PRESIDENT: I understood you to say you were offering the document. Just proceed with reading it.
DR. STEINBAUER: I am merely reading it now:
"I, the undersigned, Walther Massion, have been cautioned that I am liable to punishment if I make a false affidavit."
I shall leave out the formal parts:
"I wish to state the following:
"I worked with Dr. Seiglboeck from 25 July until about 20 September 1944. I had been ordered there. On commencing my duties I discovered the salt water experiments were concerned. I myself was not always present as I frequently had to travel as a courier.
"To the best of my belief the plan of the prisoners quarters at the Dachau camp is correct. I have signed it with my name.
"The experiments were made on about 40 persons. The color of the chevrons worn by them was black, as far as I can recall.
"Whether these experimental subjects had been sentenced or whether they had volunteered, I do not know. The prisoners were subjected to a thorough examination before the experiments were started. They were quartered in a large room with some single beds and some tiered bunks.
"Before beginning the experiment the experimental subjects were given the same food as supplied to the flying personnel of the Luftwaffe, that is to say, a very nutritious diet of sardines, cheese, butter, milk, meat, etc.
"During the experiment 4 persons assigned to the thirst group received no food whatsoever. The others received sea-emergency rations, with chocolate choco-cola, etc.
"The experiments were controlled by a night shift consisting of medical non coms and prisoners who were medical students. These medical students lived in a small room adjoining the ward room. I took part in this night shift on three occasions. We were ordered to call Dr. Beiglboeck in the event of any special developments.
"In addition, doctors who were prisoners were called upon to act as specialists, who were treated by Dr. Beiglboeck as fully qualified exports.
"I remember two cases where infusions were made because the experimental subjects had had a peripherial collapse. After the infusion these people recovered immediately. I know also that the experimental subjects became extremely apathetic and somnolent. Nothing is known to me of brain-storm attacks, although I do know that in the two cases quoted the persons whimpered. I never observed any cases of hysteria.
"I have no knowledge of any deaths occurring during these experiments. I would have known had there been any such case.
"The experiments lasted 4 to 6 days as far as I can recall. The experimental period was longer for those experimental subjects who received water treated by the Schaefer method and was finally broken off without any special reason. The persons treated by the Schaefer method suffered no complaints, as far as I know. No diarrhea occurred during the experiments to my knowledge. In the beginning stool specimens were sent to a medical institute in Vienna, later this was stopped, possibly because it was unnecessary.
"During the experiments blood was taken from the experimental subjects in the morning. I assume that it was. 10 cubic centimeters. I myself forwarded only the blood which had passed through the centrifuge and which was small in volume.
"At the conclusion of the experiment the final report was dictated to me, and from this I know that none of the experimental subjects died. The report stated that no lasting ill efficts to health remained.
"Dr. Beiglboeck treated the prisoners as humanly as ordinary patients. He was rough to them"-
The German word is "grob", and a better translation would be rude.
"He was rude to them only when they obtained drinking water contrary to orders. I know definitely that none of the experimental subjects were turned over to the SS for punishment because of any offenses.
"I am aware that Dr. Beiglboeck used his influence on behalf of two prisoner medical students, to ease their conditions.
"The experimental room was located within the camp, but was otherwise not connected with the rest of the camp.
No SS doctors took part in the treatment. At first we were only allowed to enter the camp accompanied by an SS official, later we were allowed to enter unaccompanied but were forbidden to go into any part of the came outside of our rooms. To my knowledge Dr. Beiglboeck had no connection with the SS doctors, he only dealt with the junior physician (Unterarzt) of the troop-training camp of the Waffen SS from whom he obtained his medicines.
"The doctors taking part in the experiments ate only at first for about a week at the SS canteen and later at a restuarant. The concentration camp made an orderly and organized impression, we noticed nothing of cruelties which later became known.
"I know that on one occasion difficulties arose in the Good supply which possibly were connected with an airraid. I was turn sent to Frankfurt with the urgent order to obtain sea emergency rations there.
"The signature of Walter Massion made before me, Attorney at Law, Dr. Robert Servatius, representative of the defendant, Karl Brandt, as representative of the Attorney at Law, Steinbauer, representative of the defendant, Professor Beigleboeck, is hereby certified."
The next document which I should like to offer is the affidavit of Dr. Karl Lesse. This is document Book I, page 32, and will be Exhibit No. 20. It is a very long document. I shall, therefore, read merely excerpts from it, containing the most important points.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel it is now time for the Tribunal to recess. You may read such portions of the document as you desire in the morning.
The Tribunal will now be in recess until nine-thirty o'clock in the morning.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will be in recess until 0930 o'clock in the morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 0930 hours 10 June 1947)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany on 10 June 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal I.
Military Tribunal I is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the Courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, you ascertain if the defendants are all present in Court.
THE MARSHAL: May it please Your Honor, all the defendants are present in the Court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary-General will note for the record the presence of all the defendants in Court.
Counsel may proceed.
DR. WILHELM BEIGLBOECK - Resumed
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) DR. STEINBAUER (Counsel for the Defendant Beiglboeck): Your Honors, yesterday I stopped with Exhibit 20, the affidavit of Dr. Karl Theodor Lesse, one of the doctors involved in the investigations in the sea water experiments. It is in Document Book 1, Document 14, on page 33. The document includes 82 questions. In order to save time I shall read merely the most important points:
1.) What was Beiglboeck's attitude towards the set up?
A.) His opinion was that there was no necessity to carry out these experiments at Dachau, since they could have been carried out easier and better in any military or civilian hospital.
2.) Did an SS-officer also tell us in Dachau that application to participate in the experiments was voluntary, and that in exchange privileges were granted to the prisoners?
Did Dr. Beiglboeck speak up for the experimental subjects on this occasion and did he recommend the release of some of them?
Do you remember that when replacements were needed after the preliminary examinations some people from Dachau volunteered spontaneously, that one of them, a gypgy from Munich, former hotelemployee, who had an "escape point" even tried terribly hard to be admitted?
Did Dr. B. succeed in getting special permission for the removal of the "escape point" at the end of the experiments?
A.) Dr. Ploetner said that the applications were voluntary. As far as I remember even release was promised in exchange. B. repeatedly spoke up for the prisoners. I can not say anything about the last question.
3.) Were there any deaths?
A.) No.
4.) Were all provisions made for careful medical attention for the experimental subjects and was such attention in fact given?
Was there a regular nights service in operation?
Who was on duty?
Was there an order to the effect that in special cases B. was to be called, even at night? Did B. go every night, mostly between 2300 and 2400 hours, to the experiment room to check the well-being of the experimental subjects? Was he also called twice in one night and did he then effect an interruption of the experiments?
A.) Yes. Night duties were taken care of by medical students. B. himself made a late inspection every night. He had to be kept informed. I can not say anything about the last question.
5.) Did he succeed in getting the medical students, who were assigned to him, transferred to the infirmary upon their own request at the end of the experiments?
A.) Yes.
6.) At the end of the experiments, was there a thorough postexperimental examination and what were its results?
A.) Yes. According to Beiglboeck's reports no injury was found.
7.) Did B. at any time hand an experimental subject over to the SS for punishment or "softening up"?
A) No.
9.) What was his attitude to the prisoners in general?
A.) Very humane and benevolent.
12.) What was the physical condition of those gypsies who were used for the experiments?
13.) Did B. reject immediately at the beginning those who lock unfit?
A.) to 12 and 13.) The experimental subjects were given a thorough internal examination by B. and several, who were not quite healthy, were rejected.
14.) Do you remember that then, after X-raying 2 cases were found among the rest with new but already decaying tubercular affections of the lungs? Were all the experimental subjects X-rayed?
A.) They were all X-rayed, I know nothing about the results.
16.) Who, according to your observations, treated the inmates in the camp infirmary?
A.) Doctors who were inmates themselves.
21.) What was the attitude of the SS towards us?
A,) Nearly always arrogant and unfriendly.
25.) Were we told anything about Rascher's experiments? Could we go and look into Schillings ward?
A.) No. b.) No.
32.) Was everything always ready in the sick room or the adjoining room for an interruption of the experiment? What?
A.) Yes. Sterile fluids for injection. Heart and circulation drugs.
34.) Why was the Yugoslav medical student, originally detailed for night duty removed from the ward? What happened to him?
A.) He was unreliable, fell asleep. I don't know what happened to him.
35.) Was it at B.'s instigation that the other medical students were quartered during the night in the adjoining room (next to the experiment room)? For what purpose? Did it have incidental advantages for the students (inmates)?
