Q. You had the position of Army physician Heeresarzt?
A. Yes.
Q. What happened after the capitulation?
A. In 1945 until the 21st of April I was near Berlin. I suddenly had to leave this post since the Russians were approaching. I went to the Northand came to the area of Flensburg. Field Marshal Keith was also there with a large part of the OKW. After the capitulation I as well as the rest of the OKW reported to the English staff and work developed since I was very frequently called upon to work out a number of questions.
When the High Command of the Wehrmacht was taken into custody or the 23rd of May, I remained where I had been and was still called on by an English staff to work on further questions. Later an Amer ican Army doctor was also added to this staff. This was called the Control Commission OKW North. I did work for this Commission which considered from my point of view was to help to take care of the innumerable wounded and sick, especially of the amputees, and to transfer these people to civilian life.
This was a very close collaboration, and on the 16th of June the American Colonel told me that a German Medical advisory Staff was to be created of about seven to ten medical officers. I was to make suggestions. I did so, and since a few of my most important associates were in the South of Germany, I suggested that they be called upon.
On the 23rd of June, 1945 , the English Colonel Escritt ordered me to come to the airfield at two o'clock with an escort so that we could fly to the South to ether to look for these gentlemen the We left at two o'clock and arrived in Munich at three-thirty. We went to the headquarters of the American Army. There the English and American Colonels reported, and then we -- that is, the person accompanying me and I were sent to the prisoner-of-war camp at Pularch near Munich. The Commission --- that is, the two English officers and the American officer --- went from there to Thuringer with us because all my material, all my files were there.
When we got there, everything had already been taken away by other commissions and officers. There was nothing left. Then the gentlemen said that we would all come to the district of Kassel to work on a staff, but nothing came of this.
I went from one prisoner-of-war camp to another. Finally on the 21st of September, 1945, I was put in solitary confinement in Obe orsel where I remained until the 13th of October. From October to January there was an intermediate period. On the 13th of January 1946, I was sent to a war crime camp near Stuttgart. In August-that is, eight months later -- I was sent to Dachau, and on the 24th of August I was sent here from Dachau.
Q. You said a while ago that during the big war you were Army Medical Inspector and finally Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you first describe your function generally as Army physician?
A. The functions of the Army physician are established precisel in the regulations, especially in the War Medical Regulations.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, in regard to this decree, for your orientation I should like to submit Document HA-28 as Exhibit 1. It is in the document book 1, Page 41. It deals with the function: of the Army physician. I ask that this document be accepted as Exhibit 1. We need not go into this question now. We can come back to it later.
BY DR. NELTE:
Q. What is your authority as Medical Inspector of the Army?
A. The authority of the Army Medical Inspector is also regulate exactly also in the War Medical Decree.
DR. NELTE: In this connection I submit an excerpt from the War Medical Decree, Document HA-28a, Page 44 of my document book 1 as Exhibit 2.
MR. MC HANEY: If the Tribunal pleases, I have no objection the admissibility of this Document except I note, in reading the English translation, for example, paragraph 6, which is on page 45, it says in the first sentence: "The Army Medical Inspector is the head of the Medical Section of the War Crime Army." I am at a loss to understand just what it might mean. I assume it is some mistake in the translation, but I never heard of any organization known as tho "War Crime Army", and if that could be clarified I would like to know exactly what it means. It occurs again, from time to time, in the text.
DR. NELTE: I thank Mr. McHaney for pointing out this mistake. I received the English Document Book only this morning. I ask that the word "Crime" be stricken.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment Counsel. The Tribunal would be pleased if the Translators would examine the German Document and inform the Tribunal as to their idea of a correct translation of the phrase.
MISS VON SHON: Your Honor, the German word is "Kriegs" here, which could be translated "War Army" or War-time Army". I think there may have been a misunderstanding with the word "War-Time".
THE PRESIDENT: I ask Counsel if that translation is satisfactory to him, "War-time Army"?
DR. NELTE: It would corresponds to the sense. May I continue Mr. President?
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed.
BY DR. NELTE:
Q What was your position as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service? How was it regulated?
A There was a special decree, the decree of 1942, specifically, and the decree of 1944 with tho regulations pertaining to it.
Q Where was the seat of the various agencies?
A The seat of the Army Physician was at the Headquarters of the High Command of the Army; that was usually in East Prussia. For six months in 1942, it was in the Ukraine.
The seat of the Army Medical Inspectorate was in Berlin, and the seat of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service was also in Berlin. Until 1944 it was in the building of the Army Medical Inspectorate; from September 1944 on, it was 50 kilometers from Berlin in a small town.
Q Where were you most of the time?
A Primarily at the Headquarters.
Q That was the relation, from the point of view of the time, between the time spent at Headquarters on the one side and in Berlin on the other side?
A One could say nine tenths of the time at Headquarters, and one-tenth of the time at Berlin. At other times one could say three-quarters of the time at Headquarters, and one-quarter of the time at Berlin.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, in this connection I submit a table, that is Document HA 29-A, as Exhibit 3. This table has the following significance: You will see there the most important and the longest trips inspection trips, of the defendant Handloser to the various theaters of war, and the time is given as accurately as possible. You will find it in the Document Book 2, page 67. In the case of the defendant Handloser, it is important.
MR. MC HANEY: If the Tribunal pleases, I will not offer an objection to the admissibility of this document if it can be put in without reading or without any discussion with the witness. The Tribunal will note this is nothing more than an affidavit from the witness, stating that he did make these trips. In order to shorten the proceedings, if Doctor Nelte is willing to put this in without reading it into the record, and without any questions to the witness, I offer no objections. If he is going to engage in interrogating the witness about these trips or anything of that nature, then I object to its admissibility on the ground it is nothing more than a statement of tho witness who is now on the stand.
THE PRESIDENT: Does that refer to Handloser's Document No. 41?
DR. NELTE: Document HA 29-A, Exhibit 3.
For the reasons which Mr. McHaney has just given, I had this table prepared so that I would not have to ask tho witness on the stand about his individual trips.
And, I therefore assume that he has no objection to the submission of this document, and I ask you to accept this document. In the case of defendant Handloser, it is important whether he knew of certain events which took place at home, in Berlin. It makes a difference whether some one was continually in Berlin, at his office, or whether he was at the Headquarters of the Army, and at the various theaters of war. This table is to help you to determine the question of what actual possibility there was at various times for Handloser -
THE PRESIDENT: (Interposing) Does the Counsel understand? The Counsel for the Prosecution has no objection to the admissibility of this document in evidence. The Counsel has simply stated that he would suggest that the examination of the witness be limited to refreshing his recollection from this document as to certain matters, and not testifying in detail concerning it. Now the document may be admitted in evidence. You may proceed.
BY DR. NELTE:
Q I ask you, Professor Handloser, whether this table which you have signed is correct?
A It is correct. I have seen only one mistake in it. That is on page 68, in the year 1944. The meeting in Breslau which has been mentioned frequently here is entered under August; it was not in August, it was in June. That is the only thing that is incorrect.
THE PRESIDENT: The error of the witness may be corrected.
Q Now, before you present your individual functions, I should like to ask you to explain to the Tribunal the terms Medical Sanitaeswesen and Sanitaesdienst, which has frequently been used here?
A That is as follows: If the word Sanitaesdienst is used, that means the duties referring primarily to the Medical Service in connection with the troops; that is, the medical tasks which are connected with Military Service, and where the medical superiors are bound to their military superiors; whether that is in the field army or in the home army, it makes no difference. If I use the word Sanitaeswesen, then in addition to this Military Service, this is everything which makes possible this Medical Service in the Military Service; that is, all the basic work and duties which make the Medical Service in the Army possible at all.
And, if I may give an example, something which played a role here, it must be emphasized that research has nothing to do with Sanitaesdienst. Those working in the Sanitaesdienst in the Medical Service have, on the whole, no opportunity to concern themselves with research. However, the basic work of the Sanitaeswesen does include research. Concerning the extent and the manners as to how research is connected with medical matters, I might say it is another phase.
Q Now, will you please tell the Tribunal about your activities as Army Physician?
A I must make a distinction between the two fields of work here.
MR. MC HANEY: If the Tribunal pleases, I think that Doctor Nelte should be admonished to try to keep to the issues of the case. Now we are about to hear a long and detailed exposition on the experiences and functions of Heeresarzt Army Physician. I assume that the defendant once hold such a position, but there is nothing in the Indictment, or no issue in this case connected with his activities as the Heeresarzt. We have got an affidavit from the defendant, beginning on page 48 of your Document Book, and it runs to page 52. Pages 45 to 52 all deal with the activities of an Army Physician, and only on page 52 do we begin to hear about the Medical Inspector of the Army. I perfectly willing to have the defendant explain at length about is activities, duties, and functions, as the Army Medical Inspector, but I do not think there is any necessity to hear any great exposition about his activities as Army Physician with which we are not concerned.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, I was also of the opinion that the defendant Handloser was not indicted as Heeresarzt, but the prosecution submitted as Document NO-1758 a diary of Halder, or excerpts from it. I do not know the exhibit number. It was handed in late in the proceedings. In this diary Generaloberstabsarzt Handloser is mentioned four times. One time army physician is mentioned. That was Dr. Oberarzt Schreiber.
Q. In what capacity were you, witness, in the headquarters when you reported to Halder?
A. I was connected with him only in my capacity as an army physician.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, would you ask the prosecution whether Document 1758 is in connection with the defendant Handloser. If they do not intend to draw any conclusions in connection with the indictment, then I am ready to dispense with the discussion of the defendant's position as army physician. If they do not want to do that, then I shall have to insist that this activity of his be discussed here.
MR. MC HANEY: The document about which Dr. Nelte is now having some concern contains certain entries dated August 31, 1941, and thereafter. As I recall, the witness became the army medical inspector on January 1, 1941, or seven months preceding this entry. Be that as it may, we don't draw any criminal inferences from this document. It simply shows that the witness had some interest in August 1941 in typhus problems, a matter which I think he would not deny in any event. So, therefore, I think that we are all probably agreed that it is unnecessary to discuss these activities of the defendant as army physician.
DR. NELTE: Then may I say that as to charges arising against Handloser from Document NO-1758 the prosecution does not want to make any charges on this basis.
Q. Then will you please tell about your activity and your functions, witness, as army medical inspector?
A. To explain the contrast between the activity of the army physician and the army medical inspector, I must say something quite briefly about the army physician. In the field he had a small staff. His activity was limited entirely to taking care of the fighting troops and was directed to a large extent by military viewpoints.
In contrast to this the activity of the army medical inspector was more of a ministerial nature, I should like to say, as far as it did not refer to the practical care of the sick and the wounded in hospitals at home and as far as it did not refer to the medical care of the troops of the replacement army at home. The activity of the army physician required quick decisions and it was free of all ballast. The army medical inspector had to deal with big problems. He had to create the foundation for everything which the troops needed in the field and at home. Consequently, the army medical inspector bad a big staff. He had to deal with the personal data of all medical officers, with organizational questions, with questions of science and the care of health, with supplying the injured and wounded, with the medical care of the prisoners of war, with all the volunteer medical help, and with all the transport system for the sick and wounded as far as it was carried on land. The army medical inspector was also compelled to maintain numerous connections and contacts with other authorities or institutes or organizations at home, which were absolutely necessary in carrying out his duties.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, Mr. McHaney has already pointed this out. I have a work of the defendant Handloser, HA-29, Document Book 1, page 48. This work contains the sphere of work and the meeting of the heads of the medical service of the army and the Wehrmacht. I submitted this work in order when examining the witness on the stand to save time and also to help you by a detailed exposition to judge the functions of the defendant as Heeresarzt, as army medical inspector, and as chief of the Wehrmacht medical service, as well as the methods of work in these agencies. Even if the defendant is not indicted as Heeresarzt, as army physician, he held this position and this activity took a great deal of his time and his efforts and therefore I ask that these parts of this document also be considered because only through them can you gain a true picture of the total activity of Professor Handloser a knowledge which is important in judging the further questions as to what extent he had opportunities to learn of certain things or not. I ask that this document be accepted as Exhibit 4.
MR. MC HANEY: The prosecution as with the preceding document will make no objection, with the understanding that the general statement of the witness, which he has just given about his functions as army medical inspector, will suffice and that no more questions be put to him. I would ask, if that is satisfactory to Dr. Nelte, that he now put a general question to him about his activities as chief of the medical services of the Wehrmacht and let him answer that and then admit the affidavit because it also deals with his activities as chief of the medical services of the Wehrmacht.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for the defendant is referring to Document HA-29 on page 48, Handloser Document Book 1. Is that correct?
DR. NELTE: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: The document may be admitted in evidence. That will be Handloser Exhibit 4.
Q. As to your function as chief of the Wehrmacht medical services, we must spend a little more time. For the statement which you must make, I will have shown to you Document NO-080 of the Prosecution, Exhibit 5 of the prosecution, in Document Book 1, page 10; also Prosecution Document NO-227, Exhibit 6 of Document Book 1, page 18.
You will also receive your diagram, to which you have sworn, on the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht. Before you explain your functions as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service I must point out to you that the Prosecution alleges that in your capacity as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service you had authority and supervision of the Medical Services of all three branches of the Wehrmacht. This is quoted from the speech of General Taylor, page 61 of the Transcript. General Taylor also says since the SS developed to an important part of the German Armed Forces, Handloser's supervision also applied to the defendant, Genzken, Chief of the Medical Service of the Waffen SS.
Furthermore, the Prosecution in a document which is not an exhibit, but which was given to the Tribunal, it says: Basic facts about the German State Health System, the Prosecution says the following about this:
"By a decree of 1942 Hitler appointed defendant Handloser, Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht. In this capacity he coordinated and supervised the activity on the Health Services of all three branches of the Wehrmacht, as well as of the Waffen SS. In this way he became the Supreme Health Officer in the military field as Conti was in the civilian sector."
Now, will you please comment on these decrees here, the decree of 1942, and the decree of 1944?
AAs far as the history of the origin of the Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht is concerned, Professor Brandt has already testified. I can only confirm his statements and I should like to repeat briefly that the occasion for the creation of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service was the emergency in the winter of 1941-1942. The decree of 1942. In the decree I must emphasize the introductory sentence, which reads: "The utilization of personnel and material in the field of the Medical and Health matters takes a coordinated and planned direction."
Under No. 1 it is also said: "That the Army Medical Inspectorate as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services is coordinating all tasks common to the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht." and so forth.
The emphasis was definitely on the personnel and material tasks, and for the sake of completeness one should really have added that in addition to personnel and material questions, there was above all the just distribution of the accommodations for the wounded and sick. This is no doubt included in the concept of material in connection with this decree.
I should also like to emphasize that I did not participate in its final composition. That was done by the OKW and many things were changed from the draft which I had submitted. Thus, for example, I had not requested that I should have a Chief of Staff from the Luftwaffe and an associate from the Navy. My application was that the Army Medical Inspector will be given the tasks of a Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services, his working staff for the Army Medical Inspectorate. It did not do me any good to have this Chief of Staff and this man from the Navy who were in no position when the tasks of all parts of the Wehrmacht were coordinated to do any comprehensive work here. In effect, they primarily made the work more difficult since there were thus two Chiefs of Staff, one from the Army Medical Inspectorate and one of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service. On the side of the Army Medical Inspectorate there were all of them workers. On the side of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service or his Chief of Staff there was only one person, a medical officer from the Navy. I emphasize this because it forms the basis for further considerations. Now, if it is a question of which work the new chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service attacked first, this developed from two points of view, first, urgency, and second, the point of least resistance. One must understand that it is very difficult with a newly created agency to incorporate one's self into the activities of the old branches of the Wehrmacht. Consequently, the first thing that were undertaken are work dealing with personnel and the commitment of personnel.
The winter of 1941 - 1942 was not only the occasion but also a very good example. The material work, that was the field where there was the least difficulty and least opposition to be expected, but in this field too, as can be proved, it took one year until we had more or less accomplished what had bee; demanded of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service.
I must at this point describe the relation with the various branches of the Wehrmacht. I shall skip the Waffen SS, because it was not very important. We have heard that in the year 1942 when the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service was established the Waffen SS had about four divisions. At the end of the war it had thirty or thirty-six and since the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service dealt only with the front divisions, that is the four divisions of the Waffen SS, this had no important role in the frame-work of the whole thing, but it was soon shown that the Waffen SS insisted strictly that the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service was competent only concerning those divisions of the Waffen SS which were committed to the Wehrmacht. They refused any interference beyond these divisions. Nothing was changed in this relationship when the number of divisions of the Waffen SS increased in the course of the years. What was the greatest burden to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service in the following time was the circumstance that the Waffen SS always approached the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service with demands. This refer primarily to doctors, but also dentists and other personnel. The Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service was in no position to decide whether he should let them have their personnel or not. The demand was made with the explanation that the Fuehrer has ordered so and so many divisions to be set up, and has at the same time issued the order that the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service is to make the necessary personnel available.
THE PRESIDENT: It is time for the Court to recess.
The Tribunal will recess until one-thirty o'clock.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 11 February 1947.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: Before proceeding with the evidence, counsel, the Tribunal desires to read a statement, an amendment to Rules of Procedure for Military Tribunal I, 10 February 1947.
"In all cases where persons are detained in the Nurnberg jail and who have been approved by Military Tribunal as witnesses for the defense, it is hereby ordered that after the date of such approval by Military Tribunal the following procedure shall be followed in the interview or interrogation of such witness or witnesses by either counsel for Prosecution or Defense:
1. Counsel desiring to interview such witness shall petition the Tribunal in writing, stating in general the scope and subject matter of such interview.
2. The Tribunal shall thereupon appoint an impartial commissioner to represent Tribunal at such interview to the end that it shall be orderly, proper, and judicial in character and within the scope of the petition filed and to the further end that there shall be no attempt to harrass, intimidate, or improperly influence the witness in giving his answer.
3. Whenever such a witness is being interviewed or interrogated in the presence of such commissioner by counsel for either side, counsel for the other side shall not be entitled to be present.
4. If in the course of such interview it shall appear to such commissioner that the proper scope of such interview, as set forth in the petition therefor is being exceeded by the counsel conducting such interview or that it is in any other manner being improperly conducted, said commissioner shall on behalf of the Tribunal stop said interview.
5. In such event said commissioner shall report in writing to the Tribunal the substantial and significant facts in relation to such interview and his reasons for having stopped the same.
6. Counsel conducting such interview may, if he so desires, promptly bring before the Tribunal in writing, after giving notice to opposing counsel, his objections, if any, to the action of the commissioner, whereupon the presiding judge of the Tribunal shall either confirm the action of the commissioner or direct the interview of the witness to proceed with such directions or limitations as he may order.
7. In any appeal to the Tribunal from such act of the commissioner, counsel so appealing shall state the name of the witness, the name of the defendant whom he represents, and the title of the cause in which he is acting as counsel.
8. The above procedure shall not be interpreted as in effect in cases, a) where the witness or prospective witness has been procured by the Prosecution but has not been approved by the Tribunal as a witness for the defense, or b) where the witness for the defense has been procured as such by the defense and voluntarily appears without being confined in the Nurnberg jail."
The Tribunal understands that this procedure has been previously discussed with counsel for the Prosecution and with counsel for the Defense and has been found satisfactory to both counsels.
I will file this original with the Secretary General to be noted in the record. Translations will be furnished defense counsel.
I will also file with the Secretary General the doctor's statement that the defendant Oberheuser should be excused on account of illness.
Counsel may proceed with examination of the witness.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, with reference to the ruling of the high Tribunal which was just read, I should like to ask that defense counsel be permitted to make a statement after having read this ruling. The translation was not such we can at the moment survey the far reaching effects of that ruling. I hope that the high Tribunal will permit us to present eventual considerations which would be in the interest of the proceedings, if such suggestion can be made.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for defense may make any presentation to the Tribunal that they may desire in connection with this ruling. Anything they may present will be considered by the Tribunal.
DR. NELTE: I thank you very much.
SIEGFRIED HANDLOSER - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. NELTE:
Q. Witness, when ending the morning session you were speaking about the relationship of the Chief of the Armed Forces Medical Service to the Waffen-SS Would you please continue that part of your statement?
A. I was saying before that the ruling regarding personnel in the Waffen-SS was most in reference to distribution of personnel to other parts of the Armed Forces. With reference to the settlement regarding material the matter was such; the Chief of the Armed Forces Medical Services had a central agency. This contral agency was at the main medical office. This department had the task to cover the entire need of medical equipment for the Armed Forces and order it from a central agency and distribute it according to the strength of the respective Wehrmacht branch.
In the case of the Waffen SS difficulties resulted in that connection. It was because only a small part of the Waffen SS was subordinated to the Wehrmacht, while other parts, and that includes the police which belonged to the Reich Physician SS, had nothing whatever to do with the Wehrmacht. Where as it was possible with the Army, Navy and Air Force to control their needs exactly and establish it, such a procedure was not possible in the case of the SS, that is the Reichsarzt SS. The Reichsarzt SS not only had to cover need for the Waffen SS but also for other parts of the SS, including the police. At no time, not even 1944, was possible to exercise an exact control and exact distribution in connection with the SS. The SS quite clearly refused any such interference and even in the year of 1944 rejected making reports to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Offices about the state of their equipment. They gave as the reason that the Reichsfuehrer SS had an authority from the Fuehrer, according to which his equipment and his orders were only a matter for the Reichsfuehrer SS to decide. In this manner there was no control exercised with reference to the Waffen SS and there was no such task in connection with material distribution and steering of such distribution.
I now come to the Navy.
Q. Before you continue, I should like to speak, Mr. President, about the relationship of the Chief of the Armed Forces Medical Services to the Waffen SS and in that connection I should like to submit two affidavits. One affidavit made by the co-defendant, Professor Dr. Mrugowsky, which is Document 17 in Document Book 2, page 28, and furthermore the affidavit of the defend Dr. Genzken as Document HA 16 in Document Book 2, page 27. Both these affidavits are dealing with the relationship of the Chief of the Armed Forces Medical services to the Waffen SS and I think it is necessary to submit these affidavits in that connection since this will simplify the procedure and will confine it to the complexes and thereby the proceedings will be shortened, ask for permission to offer these affidavits as Exhibits 5 and 6 to the Hig* Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Which affidavit does counsel offer as Exhibit 5?
DR. NELTE: HA 17, Document Book No. 2, page 28. Exhibit 6 will be Document HA 16 in Document Book No. 2, page 27.
MR. MC HANEY: If the Tribunal please, it seems to the prosecution that instead of shortening the case of the defendant Handloser, it is apt to prolong it considerably by this procedure of bringing in all of the evidence wh** the witness Handloser is on the stand and sailing for his comment on each affidavit and other document which is going in. Now we have here two affidavits one from Mrugowsky and one from Genzken, concerning the relationship of the Chief of the Medical Services of the Wehrmacht to the Waffen SS. I don't understand the order of proof in bringing these documents, which are quite u* related to the testimony of this witness, into the proceeding while he is testifying. I don't have any particular objection to the admissibility of t** documents themselves. It is more a question of order of proof. I think we would get along much faster if he would proceed to interrogate the witness, release him for cross-examination, and then put in his other documents.
DR. NELTE: I believe that Mr. McHaney is right and that it is a question of the expediency of the submission of evidence. I think it would be more expedient if a certain complex of questions is concluded while submitting ex** dence. I don't think it is advisable to let the defendant speak first and then submit affidavits when submitting documents. I think that the Tribunal will gain a much better picture about this certain complex of questions when it a the same time takes judicial notice of the documents rather than after the examination of the defendant is concluded. I think this is a question of ex pediency and I think that the procedure as I adopt it is in accordance with expediency.
MR. MC HANEY: I would ask the Tribunal to request Dr. Nelte to state whether or not he now plans to read these affidavits into the record during the course of the interrogation of this witness and, further, whether he intends to direct any questions to the witness Handloser, based upon matters which are stated in these affidavits.
DR. NELTE: I merely wanted to submit and present these affidavits and should like to emphasize the most essential points and then leave it to the prosecution to put any questions they may desire in connection with that document.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for defendant may proceed according to the plan which he has outlined, for the present at least.
BY DR. NELTE:
Exhibit 5 is an affidavit of the co-defendant, Professor Mrugowsky. It refers to the chart which he himself handed to the prosecution and which was submitted to the High Tribunal. He says?
"In the pamphlet known as 'Basic Facts about the German State Health System' which was submitted to the Tribunal by the prosecution it appears as if the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service, Professor Handloser, had directed and supervised the Medical Service of the Waffen SS.
"I have to state the following: Basically and generally, the Medical SS vice of the Waffen SS was not subordinate to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service. There was only limited supervision by him, which extended only to the Medical Service of the front divisions of the Waffen SS when in acti with the Wehrmacht. The Waffen SS trained and obtained the necessary medical personnel independently. The Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service did not have any authority over the medical personnel. Only units of the Waffen SS in actual combat service were subordinated to the Wehrmacht. Therefore, the subordination was only temporary and within the framework of the consequent necessities.
"As soon as the units of the Waffen SS were withdrawn from the combat area, the temporary subordination and supervision ceased, just as it did what wounded or sick SS men were transferred to rear echelons. The Waffen SS said to it that its men were sent to its own hospitals. The Waffen SS was independent in establishing new units, as far as medical supplies were concerned, just as in the case of personnel. The Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service did not have any authority over this.
"The connections of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service to the Medical Service of the Waffen SS were therefore very limited. There was no official connection with the medical research institutes of the Waffen SS and the SS.
"The Institute for Typhus and Virus Research at Buchenwald, which was subordinated to me, did not have any official connection with the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service or the Army Medical Inspectorate. It was neither subordinated to, nor was there any supervision by, the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service."
Dr. Genzken, in Exhibit 6, confirmed this statement in its entirety as being correct and true.
Now, Professor, I ask you to continue describing the relationship of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service to the various branches of the armed forces.