A Yes.
Q Did you hear of the same thing about Brandenburg?
A No, I don't know that name.
Q Or Hartheimer?
A Yes.
Q Or Sonnenstein?
A Yes.
Q Or Bernburg?
A Yes.
Q Or Berneck?
A Yes, also.
Q What other extermination institutes do you know that existed?
A Otherwise, I don't know. Others came to my attention in the cours of time there.
Q All right, witness. You said that the asylum filled out questionnaires on patients which were sent to Berlin, is that right?
A Yes, questionnaires were sent to Berlin.
Q To whom were they sent in Berlin?
A I can not say that. I have never sent any there.
Q Have you ever heard of it?
A My chief the then Director Dr. Menneke was in charge of having them sent there.
Q Have you over heard of the Reich Association Hospital and Nursing Establishment?
A You mean the Reich Corporation for Nursing and Convalescent Establishment?
Q I mean the Reichsarbeitsgemeinschaft fuer Pflege und Heilanstalten?
A They were asylums for Hadamar, yes, and also the Gemeinnuetzige, and the Gemeinnuetzige Transport G.M.B.H.; also the Reich Company for Scientific Research; also a department for amalgamation and hereditary diseases.
Q I thought you probably hoard about those. Now, tell us what they were?
A So far as I know they were the executing agencies.
Q They were the agencies in charge of the euthanasia program?
A Yes. When I attended the conference of the Party in the Chancellery I also asked who was in charge of this assignment, and Dr. Hegener told me it was Professor Brandt; that he had the medical direction, and I also continued on this concept.
Q Was anything said about the connection of Viktor Brack, then?
AAbout the connection, yes, it was stated that he was the medical director.
Q Now, you are speaking of Viktor Brack, or Karl Brandt?
A I am speaking about Professor Brandt.
Q I now put the question to you whether you knew that Viktor Brack was connected with the euthanasia program?
A Yes. Later on the name of Viktor Brack was mentioned frequently, and Mr. Hegener told me about it, and also told me at a later period of tin during a conference that Brandt was not the director any more, but that Brack was in charge all by himself.
Q When was that?
A It must have been in 1944.
Q Was von Hegener a subordinate of Viktor Brack?
A It was Hegener subordinated to Viktor Brack. I only know this from Hegener when I had a discussion with Hegener about the subject.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now recess until 1:30.
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1340 hours, 16 January 1947) WALTER EUGEN SCHMIDT - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) By Mr. McHANEY:
Q Witness, let's go back for a moment to the meeting which you state was held in the summer of 1941 in the Chancellery of the Fuehrer. Do you mean by the Chancellery of the Fuehrer, Beuhler's office? Witness, you stated that in the summer of 1941, a meeting was held in the Chancellery of the Fuehrer, is that right?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q Do you mean by Chancellery of the Fuehrer, the office of Bouhler?
A I understand it was Beuhler's department, yes.
Q Were you asked to take any oath binding you to secrecy at this meeting
A Yes, secrecy was demanded from us and we signed the document in fact stating that.
Q And what was to be the penalty if you did not maintain secrecy?
A Regarding the punishment itself, nothing was said, but I experienced it in the institute of mine that one of my male orderlies was sent to a concentration camp.
Q Now what other explanation was given about the operation of the Euthanasia Program at this meeting? How was it explained to you?
A It was said that, generally speaking, it was a general task of the state which was secret, and I went on to ask why this task should be secret, whether the law in fact was a secret law; and I was told that with respect to the patients who weren't supposed to find cut and also considering the situation of the war, they would have to be secret.
Q. Now, witness, you have testified you were familiar with the names Reichsarbetsgemeinschaft and the charitable foundation for institutional care of patients, the so-called stiftung, and the patient transport corporation.
A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you if those were simply code names under which the Euthanasia program was carried out.
A. Yes, they were camouflage; the way I understood it at the time was that it was the executive departments which were concerned, the department of ministry, of the Interior, and the Reich Chancellery that is to say.
Q. And is the same thing true of the Reich Committee for research of heredity and constitutional diseases?
A. Yes, that applies to that too.
Q. has this Reich Committee for research of heredity and constitutional diseases concerned with the Euthanasia program as applied to children?
A. Yes. I had such a task from the Reich Committee.
Q. And the three other organizations were concerned with what?
A. From the Reich Committee certain diseases were dealt with, crippled and deformed children, and T. B. and serious tumors of the brain.
Q. Now, turning from this Reich Committee back to the Reich Association, who are hospital nursing establishments, charitable institutions for the care of patients, and patient transient corporation, were these organizations concerned with the Euthanasia applied to adults?
A. Yes. These were the organizations which carried out Euthanasia on grown-ups.
Q. You have mentioned the names of Prof. Hagener and Prof. Nietsche; do you knew whether or not they were so-called top experts in the Euthanasia program as applied to adults?
A. As far as I know, the Euthanasia program was applicable to grown-ups and they were experts.
Q. Hagener and Nietsche were experts; is that right?
A. Yes. They were the chief experts in fact whom I know.
Q. Now, then, let's confine ourselves for the moment to the Euthanasia as applied to grown-ups.
Were questionnaires filled cut on patients in insane asylums all over Germany?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know where these questionnaires come from?
A. The questionnaires were sent to the institute through the Interior Department.
Q. Would that be through the Ministry of the Interior and Dr. Linden?
A. Yes, I assume so; at any rate in our institute there were a number of these questionnaires which were already there.
Q. And after these questionnaires had been completed, where were they sent?
A. They were sent to Berlin; they went to Hadamar; that was done by the director and you would have to ask him. I don't know at the moment where they were sent exactly.
Q. Dell now, witness, you were active in this program; you surely have some general understanding of how it operated; isn't that true?
A. Yes, This is how it was. In this institute busses would arrive which were directed under the so-called transport community for patients, and at the same time rows of patients would arrive, and these patients amounting to an average of 90 to 100 per transport, and a transport consisting of three busses; these patients were then dealt with; they were taken to the busses and remover; and it was not said where the patients were being taken, but the knowledge had become common that they went to Hadamar.
Q. Went to Hadamar, you said?
A. Yes, I said Hadamar.
Q. Now witness, let's turn for a moment to the Reich Committee for Research and hereditary and constitutional diseases. Dill you explain briefly just how that program operated? Were questionnaires filled out there on the children?
A. New, we didn't do that. The questionnaires were filled cut by the Health departments and the chief of the children's clinic, and then on the basis of a decree from the Ministry of the Interior reports were made to Berlin.
From Berlin there was a committee of doctors, that is to say chief experts, medical officers, and they would then decide according to the merits cf the case on Euthanasia and they would then issue authorizations. We called them authorizations -- these authorizations were photostatic copies of the reports, and then there was an accompanying letter which would be sent to the individual children's department or the corresponding committees in the Reich
Q. Well now, witness, we want to make the operation cf this children's program perfectly clear. Wasn't it required of doctors, midwives and other people who were present at the birth of a deformed child -
A. Yes, that was also demanded.
Q. Witness, I will ask you to wait until I complete my question and then give your answer. Didn't these physicians, doctors, mid-wives, at the hospital have to make a report when deformed children were born to Dr. Linden's office in Berlin?
A. Yes, that was the situation. These mid-wives, doctors and health authorities did have to make a report about such serious deformities or some serious brain disease to Berlin, and then on the strength cf these reports, the Reich Committee would decree Euthanasia through so-called authorizing orders.
Q. And these authorizing orders took the form of a photostatic cony of the report on which had boon written approved?
A. Yes. The word treatment was considered by the Reich Committee to be --to mean -- Euthanasia.
Q. And those photostatic copies came to you in Eichberg?
A. Some cf these photstatic copies did reach us, and all different children's departments.
Q. Now, witness, I want to put to you Document NO 253, which has been admitted before this Tribunal as Prosecution's Exhibit No. 331, and I want you to study it for a. moment and I will then put a question to you.
DR. ROBERT SERVATIUS: If the Tribunal please, I object to the presentation of this document to the witness. The document has not yet been the subject of cross-examination, and I deny quite definitely its correctness.
It might mislead this witness and I, therefore, request that it should not be admitted. First cf all, there would have to be a cross-examination on it.
MR. McHANEYL If the Tribunal please -
THE PRESIDENT: The objection is over-ruled; counsel may proceed.
BY MR. MCHANEY:
Q. Witness, this document which you are now looking at purports to be a chart of the or organization of the Euthanasia program as it operated in Germany. I will ask you, based upon your knowledge and activity in the Euthanasia, if chat chart presents an accurate and correct picture of Euthanasia and its organization.
THE PRESIDENT: I would suggest, Mr. McHaney, that you ascertain from him if he is familiar with reading charts and if he understands the meaning.
BY. MR. McHANEY:
Q. Witness, I will ask you if you understand that chart that is before you.
A. Yes I do. I understand the chart. I personally do recognize the organization cf the Reich Committee connected to Dr. Linden; and then there a. connecting line to superior Dr. Karl Brandt; and I know the connection to Bauhler. Brack, Blankenburg and Hegener is known to me. They were working together with Heyde and Nietsche. They in turn had to collaborate with the Reich working committee of the clinic and sanatoriums. Then there is the Stiftung of these institutions; then there is the transport company for patients; and those are the organizations which I know. The name of filers is known to me, and has been connected to these organizations; he was playing a leading role. Then I recognize the names of the exports -- Pfannmueller and Falthauser. And then regarding the observation institutes I know nothing. From the Euthanasia institutes I know the names of Grafeneck, Brandenburg, Sonnenstein in Hadamar and Bernau are known to me.
Q. Witness, are you able to follow on the chart the flow of questionnaire from the office of Allers, over to the office of Dr. Linden, and from there down to the general institutions, the insane asylums?
A. To follow the channel of those questionnaires on the basis of the euthanasia program as it is put before me hero is something I cannot do
Q. Do you find the office of Allers on the chart?
A. Yes, I've got that.
Q. Do you see right under the office of Allers a department for questionnaires?
A. Yes, yes, I can recognize that.
Q. And to you see the arrow running from this Department of Questionnaires over to the department of Lindon?
A. Yes.
Q. And as you see the arrow running from the office of Lindon down to the insane asylums?
A. Yes, I can see that too.
Q. And do you see the line running from the insane asylums to the observation stations, with the word "patients, indicating that these questionnaires were filled out on the patients?
A. Yes, I can recognize that.
Q. And do you follow that the questionnaires went back from the observation station to the office of Linden and then wore sent from Linden over to the office of Allers, where the top experts, Heyde and Nietsche, expertized the questionnaires?
A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you if that is not the way that the euthanasia program operated.
A. The possibility exists, out I am not accurately informed about that
Q. Witness, weren't you working with Dr. Mennecke in Eichberg?
A. I worked with Dr. Mennecke in Eichberg.
A. And don't you know for a fact that Dr Mennecke sent these questionnaires to the office of Linden and that they wore then expertized by Heyde and Nietsche?
A. Yes, I know that f or certain.
Q. Well, then, why do you state that you are not accurately informed? You were working with the man who was doing just that, weren't you?
A. Yes, but the intermediary departments I did not know.
Q. Which intermediary department did you not know?
A. The individual departments on the channel. I only knew that Dr. Mennecke sent these questionnaires to Berlin, and then during my work with Mennecke I learned that he had connections with Dr. Linden, whom he visited quite often, and with Dr. Nietsche, too, and with Dr. Heyde as well, and he also collaborated with Aller, but just how they worked together amongst themselves I never knew.
Q. Well, witness, can you state whether or not the questionnaires were sent by Mennecke to Linden's office?
A. He did send them to Linden's office, yes.
Q. Can't you also state that Heyde and Nietsche expertized those questionnaires as the top experts?
A. That I know, yes.
Q. But what you do not know is the channel or the offices?
A. What I did not -
Q. Witness, I will ask you to repeat that, I don't think the translation came through.
A. I know that Dr. Mennecke sent the questionnaires to Dr. Linden in Berlin -- to Linden's office, that is, and I also know that there the questionnaires were dealt with by Nietsche and Heyde in their capacity as chief experts. I do not know, however, what the channel of procedure and the official relation was between Allers and Heyde. I know for certain, however, they they did collaborate.
Q. All right, witness, that seeps to be clear enough. I will now ask you whether or not the order to move the patient from the asylum to Hadamar or one of the other euthanasia extermination stations did not come from either the Reich Association or the Stiftung or the Patients' Transportation Corporation.
A. That order cane from one of these Stiftungen, the working community or the Stiftung and was carried out by the Transportation Corporation for Patients, yes.
Q. How, witness, can you state that this chart is an accurate presentation, an accurate picture of the organization of the euthanasia program, with the exception which you have made; that is, that you do not know the subordinate offices connecting Linden with the experts?
A. Yes.
Q. With that qualification, you are clear that the chart is accurate?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you please hand the chart to the clerk beside you? Now, witness, you have given us a picture of how the euthanasia, program operated as it applied to grown-ups and children. I want you now to toll us what went on in Eichberg.
A. Beginning in 1940 the transports loft Eichberg for Hadamar, transports of such patients as the communal Stiftung or the Association had selected. They had previously been dealt with by experts, and the corresponding order came from the ministry of the Interior, and the Transportation Corporation carried it out.
These transports continued until approximately 1941, the spring or probably the early summer. Then the patients from other institutes were first of all to go through us as intermediary station and then also to the euthanasia institute at Hadamar. Whilst this particular program was being started up, Hadamar stopped work. That is to say, we were overcrowded considerably, and it was not quite clear whether another euthanasia station was being considered. That was not the case, however. It stopped. Apart from this particular action there was only the Reich Committee station at Eichberg. There was a special department for children at Eichberg, for the killing of deformed and imbecilic children.
One understood "deformed" to mean deformed brains of a serious degree and complete idiocy. They were given the death of mercy in our institute.
This order originated with the Reich Committee, and it was passed on to us through Herr von Hegener.
This matter continued until 1944. In 1944, towards the middle, the connections with the Reich Committee were broken off. Probably it was the approach of Russian troops toward Berlin which was responsible for the cessation of connections.
Q. Now, witness, let's go back and consider what happened in Eichberg with respect to grown-ups. You came to Eichberg in March or April, 1941; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the euthanasia program had been operating in Eichberg prior to that time?
A. Yes, the euthanasia program had been in operation since 1940. During the initial period of that program I was not present.
Q. Do you have any information of what happened at Eichberg prior to the time you arrived there in March or April 1941?
A. Yes, I heard it from Dr. Mennecke in the course of conversations, and also from the male and female nurses of the institute.
Q. Approximately how many patients were in Eichberg in 1940?
A. The average was 1500 patients.
Q. Now, were these 1500 patients who were in Eichberg At the beginning of 1941 transferred out to Hadamar?
A. Not all of them. Approximately 40 to 50 percent, I would say.
Q. Do you know how fast that transfer took place and when it was completed?
A. Well, the situation was that very early in the morning the busses arrived and in the evening, as far as I had learned from Dr. Mennecke, the patients were dead.
Q. I do not think you understood my question, witness. I meant to ask you how soon after the 1st of January, for instance, 1940, had they eliminated the 50 percent or 750 patients who were in Hadamar, I mean in Eichberg?
A. Of these 1500 present in Eichberg at the beginning of 1940 approximately half went to Hadamar; that is to say, they were the so-called incurably insane as they were called at the time. The others, who had only just fallen ill and who were considered capable of being treated or capable of carrying on work and certain other categories, remained behind.
Q. Well, after approximately half of the 1500 patients had been exterminated in Hadamar, did new patients come on to Eichberg?
A. Yes. be received repeatedly transports from other institutes, part of which were meant to be transferred to Hadmar but which, because of the cessation of work in Hadamar, remained in our institute so that we had up to 1800 people in our institute and were overcrowded.
Q. Well, didn't they transfer out some of these new patients at Eichberg though, before Hadamar closed down?
A. Yes, at the beginning a few of these new patients were transferred. That happened until August 1941. be received the first patients from outside approximately a t the beginning of June.
Q. June 1941?
A. Yes, July. June and July.
Q. Now when was Hadamar shut down?
A. In August 1941.
Q. Do you know why it was shut down?
A. I do not know the reason.
Q. Do you know whether or not it resumed operation?
A, Hadamar did not recommence its functions as a Euthanasia Institute, at least not in the shape of gassing. That I know for certain, but later on I learned that there were injections being used in order to carry on with Euthanasia in another form.
Q. Well, witness, don't you know that that happened in 1942 at Hadamar?
A. I do not know what happened in Hadamar in 1942 now.
Q. I am asking you if you don't know that Hadamar resumed operations in 1942 in exterminating patients, whether by injections or by gas?
A. Well, no. These gas chambers at Hadamar were dismantled in 1941 and the Institute at Hadamar was again used as an ordinary asylum or sanatorium. I had been informed up to that point but now I know that Hadamar employed injections to continue Euthanasia.
Q. Well, that is what I wanted to find out, witness. Don't you know that that occurred in 1942 in Hadamar? Don't you know that they began using injections in 1942?
A. I do not quite understand your question.
Q. Didn't they begin using injections in Hadamar in 1942?
A. Yes.
Q. Now it is quite interesting about these gas chambers at Hadamar. Do you know what happened to those?
A. They were dismantled.
Q. Do you know where they were sent?
A. No, I do not know that.
Q. Can you give us an approximate figure of the number of grown-ups who were sent to Hadamar from Eichberg for extermination?
A. From Eichberg you mean?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, in my opinion, it must have amounted to something like 1,000.
Q. Now what happened with respect to grown-ups, after Hadamar shut down in August 1941, in Eichberg?
A. Nothing was going on there.
Q. Do you mean to say that Eichberg had approximately 1500 to 1700 patients from August 1941 until the end of the war?
A. No. Later on we passed a large number of our patients on to other asylums such as Gutstein and Hadamar because we were opening other establishments. We had a new hospital and a new lung sanatorium and a new field hospital. It is for that reason that a large number of our patients went to outside establishments.
Q. Well, where did these patients go?
A. To Weilmuenster, Gutstein and Hadamar.
Q. Do you know whether any of those patients were exterminated in any one of those institutes?
A. I assume that at least the possibility existed that they were exterminated at Hadamar, as far as I am informed today, that is.
Q. Now, witness, didn't you know at the time they were transferred that the purpose was for extermination?
A. No, that was unknown.
Q. What makes you say now that you think some of them were exterminated at Hadamar?
A. Because now, during my internment, I heard of the trial at Hadamar.
Q. Witness, let us go back to Eichberg again and describe the operation of the children's ward. You were in charge of that ward, weren't you?
A. Yes, I was chief medical officer at that institute. I was a department chief medical officer of the children's section. The Institute had orders to give the "mercy death" to these children; that is to say, Berlin sent us so-called "authorizing documents" and these children, after a little while, would arrive too. Then we examined the children and if it turned out correct, the children were assisted in dying. That is to say, if they were physically very ill and at the same time, of course, insane. And then every month we made a report to Berlin, directly to the Reich Committee, sent to a postal address, and then we received our mail from Berlin which was signed by Herr von Hegener.
Quite repeatedly Dr. Heffelmann or von Hegener came to visit us and they would discuss this and that so that we hid liaison, in practice, with these two men only.
Q. While we are on this liaison with Heffelmann and Hegener, did you ever discuss with them the leadership of the Euthanasia program?
A. Yes. During the meeting at the Reich Chancellery when I was present. I sat together with a number of gentlemen and von Hegener was one of them. Naturally I took an interest in finding out who these so-called "secret state tasks" were being directed by. It was on that occasion that von Hegener replied to me that Professor Brandt was in charge, that is to say, medically in charge. This was in 1941. This, of course, remained my firm conviction until 1944, when von Hegener told me, during one of his visits, that this was no longer Professor Brandt who was the leading personality in charge; he was then only speaking about Brack.
Q. What about these visits in 1942 and 1943 that you mentioned - did you also have some discussion with them then about Brandt?
A. That I can't remember. I don't think we spoke about it, or I can't remember it.
Q. Well, how can you say that Brandt was in charge of the program from 1941 to 1944? On what do you base your statement?
A. Merely on this first conversation in the Reich Chancellery, when I was told that Brandt was the leading man; and, of course, also upon this conversation in 1944 when von Hegener told me that this was no longer Professor Brandt.
Q. Well, did not Hegener indicate that Brandt had recently left?
A. No, he merely told me, "No, Brandt's no longer the toes." I think this happened after the attempt on Hitler's life. I was not Quite sure and I did not want to ask because Hegener was always very tight-lipped.
Q. All right, witness. Let's go back to the children's department at Eichberg. When was the killing of children started in Eichberg?
A. The action started in 1941, approximately in the autumn and it con tinued until 1944.
Q. In other words, the children's action did not start until after you came to Eichberg?
hell, it had started already, ever since March, but at that time we had only a. very few children. The station was really very small; on the average we had 20 children there and at first there were only 5, 6, or 7.
Q. And you state that you received authorizations from the Reich Committee for Research, on hereditary and constitutional diseases?
A. Yes, I received the authorization, the so-called "authorization."
Q. And that was signed by von Hegener, did you say?
A. Well, Hegener signed them. He signed the so-called "authorization". The authorization reports, one could say. And a photostat copy was attached so that every patient had a so-called "report".
Q. How many children were killed in Eichberg, from the time the program started in 1941, until it was completed in the middle or latter part of 1944?
A. About 80 children altogether. There were some special authorizations among them which concerned some adults who were deformed. I remember one cripple who was 30 years old.
Q. Was his name Kessler?
A. No; Kessler was another man. He was deaf and dumb and. deformed, and he was a psychopathic case too, and an epileptic.
Q. Now you mentioned "special authorizations". Those special authorizations concerned grown-ups?
A. Yes; the so-called "special authorizations", in these cases, sometimes originated from members of their family or other agencies.
Q. From whom did these special authorizations come? The Reich Committee?
A. Yes; the Reich Committee,
Q. How many of these special authorizations did you receive?
A. Approximately 13 to 20.
Q. How old wore these children who were killed in Eichberg?
A. At the beginning, there were only very young children. Later older children were added, and later on, adults too.
Q. How were they killed?
A. Well, they were treated with sedatives.
Q. What kind of sedatives?
A. We had morphine and Luminal.
Q. Were the grown-ups, who were killed under the special authorizations, executed in the same way?
A. Yes. These adults were usually severely ill and were close to dying.
Q. Were any of these children non-German nationals?
A. I cannot remember that. I don't think that was the case, however.
Q. You didn't have any children born of eastern workers in Germany, in Eichberg?
A. No; we did not.
Q. Were any of the grown-ups non-German nationals?
A. No; I cannot remember that. Sometimes authorizations came along which concerned so-called "racial Germans", but they were not foreigners. That was in two or three cases, I think.
Q. What do you mean by "racial Germans"?
A. Once they came from Upper Silesia, and really had German nationality?
Q. Did you make cut a list in the institution at Eichberg on these children who had been killed?
A. We made a monthly report. However, we did not make a real list.
Q. Well, didn't you make a report which gave the name of the child, and the date of birth, and diagnosis, and the date of the authorization, and the date of death?
A. No. These authorizations came from Berlin and were registered, and then, at the end of the month, we reported the names of the children who, at that time, were at this Reich Committee. In addition, the names of the children who, during the course of that month, were admitted, and then, also, such children who, during the course of that month, had died, together with their birth date, and then, at the end of this report, we summarized which cases were still at the Reich Committee.
Q. Witness, I will hand you Document NO-1146, which has been introduced in this case as Prosecution Exhibit No. 353, and we'll ask you if this sort of list is familiar to you -- not this particular list, but a similar type of list?
MR. McHANEY: If the Tribunal please, this is not in any one of the Document Books before you. It was in one of the earlier Euthanasia Document Books.
A. We never made such a list. Our report only referred to six questions, which were contained on that form.
Q. Witness, I don't understand the last statement which you have made, Will you repeat it please?
A. Our reports consisted of answering six questions, which were put to us by the Reich Committee on a form which we received too.
Q. And what were those six questions?
A. The first question was: "How many children were admitted from the Reich Committee during the course of that month?" Then, "How many children were at the station at the beginning of the month?" "How many such cases died during that month?" "How many were released?" "How many are there at the time?" And these had to be listed, pernname.
Q. You never made any report, by name, of those who had been killed to the Reich Committee?
A. Yes: that was question three. It was asked: "How many children died?" And then the list was given.
Q. They did not ask you for any diagnosis of the ones who had died?
A. Well, no; the Reich Committee didn't ask us that.
Q. In any event, you're clear that you never made any such report as I have just presented to you?
A. Not I; no. Since the diagnosis was already established at the Reich Committee, they had already been expedited. I assure that they merely wanted to register that, then.
Q. Now, witness, you are familiar with an order, received from the Reich Ministry of the Interior, concerning Poles and eastern workers, are you not?
A. Yes. That came in 1943 or 1944. An order came, according to which people who were not fit for labor or such eastern workers who were not healthy and could not be restored to health, were to be transported back to where they lived.
