I do not have to read those either. described to have been so well known that no proof is necessary for that fact. From that assumption the Prosecution came to the conclusion that the participation in the National Socialist Government in any field would include the sponsoring of aggressive wars. Against that, I am submitting Documents 7 through 10, which are matters of proof which have also been submitted by the Prosecution and which show that Hitler in public, as well as in private conversations, since the coming to power had a definite policy of declaring his peaceful intentions, a policy which seemed to promise peace for various reasons.
Court have also to be considered in order to decide whether the official policy of Hitler since the coming to power was that he had intentions for aggressive war. As probative material in that direction, I should like to submit No. 11 and No. 12 of the document book, which I will number Frick Exhibits No. 1 and 2. to the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces at the occasion of the occupation of the Rhineland in 1936. The second document is a statement of the Austrian Bishops at the occasion of the annexation of Austria in March 1938.
The first document says, and I quote:
"Cardinal Archbishop Schulte has sent to the Commander-in-Chief of the German Armed Forces, General von Blomberg, a telegram in which -- at that memorable hour when the armed forces of the Reich are reentering the German Rhineland as the guardian of peace and order -- he greets the collected fighting men of our nation with deep emotion and mindful of the magnificient example of self-sacrificing love of fatherland, stern manly discipline, and upright fear of God which our Army has always given to the world." expected that the representatives of the Catholic Church would like to sponsor aggressive wars or in any other way be sympathetically inclined to the criminal intentions of Hitler. These statements would have been impossible if the accusations of the Prosecution were true, that the criminal intentions of Hitler and the aggressive intentions of Hitler had been quite apparent.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would like to know what is the source of this telegram from the Archbishop, Frick No. 11.
DR. PANNENBECKER: I took the telegram, No. 11, from the Voelkischer Beobachter of 9 March 1936.
THE PRESIDENT: And the other one?
DR. PANNENBECKER: And the other one from the Voelkischer Beobachter of 26 March 1938.
No. 13 of the document book is part of a speech made by Frick, from which it can be seen that Frick had the same opinion. He states in that speech, and I quote:
"The national revolution is the expression of the will to eliminate by legal means every kind of external and internal foreign domination."
THE PRESIDENT: You gave that the number 13, did you?
DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: I beg your pardon. That should be 3.
DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes, that is what I wanted to say. I submit it as Frick Document No. 3.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. PANNENBECKER: The defendant Frick has particularly been accused of his activity for the Verein fuer das Deutschtum in Auslande, a foreign organization, and in that the prosecution saw a contribution by the defendant Frick for the preparation of aggressive wars. The actual opinion and attitude of Frick about the aims of that organization can be seen from. Document No. 14, which will be Frick Exhibit No. 4, a speech made by Frick, and I quote:
"The VDA has nothing to do with aims of power politics or with questions of frontiers; it is and must be nothing more than a rallying point for the cultural German national aims of our follow countrymen the world over."
In Document Frick No. 15 -
THE PRESIDENT (Interposing): Dr. Pannenbecker, I perhaps ought to say that in the index of this document book it looks as though the exhibit numbers were the numbers of the documents in the order in which they are put in the book, but that will not be so.
DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes, it won't be so.
THE PRESIDENT: That last document which you just put in as Exhibit No. 4 is shown in the book to be Exhibit No. 14 which is a mistake. It is Document No. 14, but but Exhibit No. 14.
DR. PANNENBECKER: Document No. 14, Exhibit No. 4.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. PANNENBECKER: Document No. 15, Exhibit No. 5 is a decree of the Reich Minister of the Interior of 24 February 1933, which also is concerned with the problem of the work of the foreign organization, and I quote.
THE PRESIDENT: Has that not already been put in? I see it has a PS number.
DR. PANNENBECKER: It has a PS number, but it has not been accepted probative material. I quote, therefore:
"Misery of the time, and for the lack of work and break within Germany, ought not to divert attention from the fact that the around 30 million Germans in foreign countries outside of the present contracted borders of the Reich are an integral part of the entire German people.
They are an integral part, which the Reich Government is not able to help economically, but whose cultural support through the league primarily concerned with this, the League for Germandom in Foreign Countreis, it considers it is obligated to make possible."
In Documents No. 16 to 24 of the document book, which I do not have to read, I have listed the legal decrees which deal with the authority of the Reich Ministry of the Interior as a central office for certain occupied territories. The tasks of this central office, which had no command authority or executive authority for any occupied territories, have already been explaine by the witness Dr. Lammers, and these tasks are listed in detail in Document No. 24. I do not have to submit it in evidence. It is an official publication of the Reichsgesetzblatt and has already been submitted as 3080-PS. mand authority, we find in the Diary of Dr. Frank the confirmation, that for the administration of his territory the Governor General had the only command authority. I do not have to quote this passage because it has already been submitted. ferred to Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler, but Frick, as Reich Minister of the Interior had no connection with that, since that authority was given to Himmler alone in his function as Reichsfuehrer SS. That can be seen from Document No. 26 of the document book, which has also been submitted already as USA Exhibit 319. concerning the crimes committed in the Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia in August 1943, giving the reason that Frick, since August 1943, had been Reich Protector in Bohemia and Moravia. In this connection, I should like to point to the documents Nos.
28 and 29 of the document book, from which it can been seen that at the time of the nomination of Frick, the former authorities of the Reich Protector had been subdivided between a so-called German States Minister in Bohemia and Moravia who was immediately subordinate to the Fuehrer and Reichschancellor to take care of all government tasks, and the Reigh Protector Frich, who received some special authorities and essentially had the right only to make reprieves after sentences by the local courts.
bility for the political police, that is, the Secret State Police, the Gestapo, and the concentration camps. Until 1936, the tasks of the police were an affair of the individual states in Germany, and accordingly, in Prussia, Goering as Prussian Prime Minister and Minister of the Interior established the political police and the concentration camps. With those things, Frick, therefore, as Reich Minister of the Interior,had nothing to do.
Interior. Before that time, however, G oering by a law had taken care of the political police by separating it from the office of the Minister of the Interior and putting it immediately under the Prime Minister, an office which was hold by G oering. The decrees have already been submitted by the Prosecution as 2104-PS, 2105-PS and 2113-PS. document book, which has also been submitted as U.S.A. Exhibit Number 233. a general right of supervision, such as the Reich had over the individual states, individual provinces. He had no special right of command but just the authority to issue general directives and in document number 31 to 33 of the document book I have quoted such directives as Frick had issued. From number 31, which will be Frick Exhibit Number 6, I quote:
"In order to correct the abuses that have occurred in connection . with the decree for protective custody, the Reich Minister for the Interior has determined in his directives of 12 April 1934 to the country governments and district governors, concerning the decreeing and execution of protective custody, that protective custody may be ordered only: (a) for the protection of the arrested person; (b) in case the arrested person, by his behaviour or especially by activities directed against the State, has directly endangered the public security and order. Therefore, the decree of protective custody is not admissible when the above-mentioned, cases are not applicable, especially (a) against persons who merely make use of their public and civil rights; (b) against lawyers for representing the interests of their clients; (c) for personal affairs, such as offenses; (d) on account of economic measures, questions of salary, dismissal of employees and similar cases.
"Furthermore, protective custody is not admissible as a counter-measure for punishable actions because courts are competent in those cases."
THE PRESIDENT: What is the date of that?
DR. PANNENBECKER: That is a document which the Prosecution has submitted as 779-PS and it was taken from the files of the Ministry. There is no date on the document but it must have been in the spring of 1934, as can be seen from the first sentence of the document.
The Voelkischer Beobachter mentions the same decree in its issue of 14 April, 1934. I have included that as document number 32 in the document book.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pannenbecker, are you offering that as an exhibit or has it already been put in evidence.
DR, PANNENBECKER: No, it has not as yet been put in evidence. I offer it as Exhibit 6.
THE PRESIDENT: I am told the date is April 12.
DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes, it must have been shortly thereafter.
THE PRESIDENT: 12th of april, 1934.
DR. PANNENBACKER: Yes. April, 1934. That is document 32 in the document book, which will be, Frick Exhibit Number 7. I do not think I have to read it. Number 8. Number 8.
Document Number 34 in the book will be Frick Exhibit Number 8. It shows that the Gestapo actually did not heed the directives of Frick and that Frick was powerless in that connection. But the document still seems to be important to show that Frick tried again and again and had taken great pains to counter-act the abuses of the Gestapo, which however, with the support of Himmler was stronger than he himself, especially since Himmler had the confidence of the Fuehrer. under the competence of the Reich. Himmler was appointed Chief of the German Police and though formally attached to the Reich Ministry of the Interior, he was in fact like an independent police minister under the immediate authority of Hitler, He was privileged in the same manner as a minister to take care of his affairs in the Reichscabinet. That can be seen from document number 35 of the document book, an extract from the Reichsgesetzblatt, a decree which has been submitted as 2073-PS. I do not believe I have to give it an exhibit number because it is an official publication.
U.S.A. Exhibit 206. I have an extract from this document. I have entered it as number 36 in the document book. I have to correct an error. That document is an extract from a book by Dr. Ley in his capacity as Reich Organization Leader. In that book Dr. Ley, to the officers of the Party, gives directives as to the cooperation with the Gestapo and at the end of the extract Ley reprinted a decree by Frick which shows how Frick had attempted to counter-act the arbitrary measures of the Gestapo. However, upon suggestion of the Prosecution of the 13/12/1, 1945, the entire document had been read as if it were written by Frick and I should like to have that corrected. by Frick, Frick tried at least in individual cases to alleviate conditions in concentration camps and generally he was not successful. I should like to cite one example under number 37 of the document book. I am submitting a letter by the former Reichstag delegate Wulle, which he has sent to me without being asked for it. This letter will be Frick Exhibit Number 10 and I quote:
"He has as my former counsel told me, often tried to persuade Hitler to release me but without any result since it was Himmler who was in charge of the concentration camps. But I owe it to him that I have been treated in a comparatively decent manner at the Sachsenhausen concentration camp.
"He always stood among the Nazi demagogues by his objectively and reserve; he was a man who by nature disapproved any act of violence.
"Since the spring of 1925 I have been involved in a sharp struggle against Hitler and his party. This struggle has been fought passionately on both sides. All the more I appreciate Frick's attitude that despite this antagonism and in his comparatively powerless position with respect to Himmler, he tried everything to help me and my wife during the bitter years of my concentration camp emprisonmen fore this Tribunal, that Frick knew about the conditions at the concentration cam at Dachau since a visit in the first half of the year 1944. I therefore submitted an interrogatory by the witness Gillhuber, who accompanied Frick on all his trips THE PRESIDENT:
Wait a moment, Dr. Pannenbecker. The Tribunal consider that they cannot entertain an affidavit upon oath from the defendant Frick, who is not going into the witness box to give evidence on oath, unless he is offered as a witness, in which case he may be cross-examined.
DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes, but the last document was not an affidavit by Frick, but by Gillhuber, a witness, who has received an interrogatory. It is number 40 of the document book. I am just informed that, by error, that exhibit has not been put into the book; that is, the translation is not in the book.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh. Well, tall us what it is.
DR. PANNENBECKER: It is an interrogatory, and the answers are by the witness Gillhuber. Gillhuber, for the personal protection of the defendant Frick, was present and accompanied him on all his official travels. In answering the interrogatory, he confirmed the fact that Frick hasnever visited the camp. The interrogatory, with the answers, still has to be translated and submitted in the translation. It is, however, contained in my book.
THE PRESIDENT: You may read the interrogatory, unless the prosecution have any objection to its admissibility, or the terms of it, because the interrogatory has already been provisionally allowed.
DR. PANNENBECKER: I read, then, from the Frick document number 40, which becomes Frick Exhibit No. 11, the following:
"Question: From when until when, and in what capacity, wereyou working for the defendant Frick?
"Answer: From the 18th of March, 1936, until the arrival of the allied troops on the 29th or 30th of April, 1945, as an employee of the Reich Security Service, for his protection, and I accompanied him.
"Question: Did you always accompany him on his travels for his personal protection?
"Answer: From 1936 until January 1942 not always, but since January 1942 I always accompanied him on all his trips and flights.
"Question: Do you know anything about the fact as to whether Frick, in the first half of 1944, visited the concentration camp Dachau?
"Answer: According to my knowledge, Frick did not visit the concentration camp Dachau.
"Question": Would you have had to know it if it had been the case, and why would you have had to know it?
"Answer: I would have had to know it if it would have been the case. I was always close to him; and my employees would have told me about it, or reported about it, if, during my absense, he had left.
"Question: Do you still have the log book of the trips made, and can you present it now?
"Answer: Since about 1941 log books were never kept any more. Instead of that, monthly reports about travels were sent to the Reich Security Service in Berlin. The copies left in my office were, in April 1945, according to orders, burned with all the rest of the material.
"Question: Do you know whether the defendant Frick has ever visited the camp Dachau?
"Answer: To my knowledge Frick has never visited the camp Dachau.
"Moosburg, 23 March 1946." Signed, "Max Gillhuber". Signed, "Lenoard F. Dunkel, Lieutenant-Colonel, Infantry." to a concentration camp a visitor cannot always get a correct picture of local conditions, I ask to be permitted to read a letter which I received from a Catholic Priest, Bernard Ketzlick. I received this a few days ago, without having asked him for it. This letter, which I submit -
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Your Honor, the prosecution makes objection to this because it is a character of evidence that there is no way of testing, I have a basket of such correspondence making charges against these defendants, which I would not think the Tribunal would want to receive.
If the door is open to this kind of evidence, there is no end to it. of testimony, and I think it is objectionable to go into letters received from unknown persons.
DR. PANNENBECKER: May I say just one thing about that? The letter was received by me so late that I did not have an opportunity to ask the individual to send me an affidavit. Of course, I am prepared to got such an affidavit afterwards if such an affidavit would have probative value.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal think that the letter cannot be admitted, but an application can be made in the ordinary way for leave to put in an affidavit or to call the witness.
DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes. Then, at a later date, I will make a motion. and I refer, finally to an excerpt from the book "Inside Europe", by John Gunther which will become Frick Exhibit No. 12. It is Under number 39 in the document book. This is a book which appeared, in the original, in the English language, and I therefore quote it in English:
"Born in the Palatinate in 1877, Frick studied law and became a Beamter, an official. He is a bureaucrat through and through. Hitler is not intimate with him, but he respects him. He became Minister of the Interior because he was the only important Nazi with civil service training, Precise, obedient, uninspired, he turned out to be a faithful executive; he has been called the only honest Nazi The last document I should like to use is an extract from the book "To the Bitter End" by Gisevius.
I believe I do not have to quota these passages individually because he himself will be heard here. This will become Frick Exhibit number 13. and Seger, which have not been received. I ask to be permitted to read these answers, as soon as I have received thorn, at a later date. ry to call the witness now.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now adjourn.
(A recess was taken untill 1400 hours)
THE PRESIDENT: Are you prepared to call your witness, Dr. Pannenbecker?
DR. PANNENBECKER: Yes, Mr. President. I ask to be permitted to call the witness Gisevius, the only witness for Frick, and I have selected Dr. Gisevius as a witness to clarify conditions of political power in Germany because from the very beginning he has been in the opposition and I believe he is qualified to give the picture of the power constellation in the field of the police. as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Will you state your full name?
Q Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath,)
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down. BY DR. PANNENBECKER: affiliated organizations? of July 1944 and that you have been at the OKW?
Q How did you get into the police service?
A In July 1933, I made my state examination for law. As a descendant of an old family of civil servants, I applied for entry into the civil service in the Prussian administration, I belonged at that time to the German National Peoples' Party and the Stool Helmet and according to the concepts of that time, I was considered politically reliable; so, as the first station in my career as a civil servant, I was attached to the political police, that meant my entry into the newly-formed Secret State Police, the Gestapo. At that time, I was very happy that I was sent particularly into the police service. At that time, already, I had heard that all sorts of atrocities were occurring in Germany. I was inclined to believe that they were just the last events growing out of that situation very similar to civil war, which we underwent from the end of 1932 to the beginning of 1933; and I hoped to contribute, to be able to contribute to it, that now again a regular official authority should see for the obedience of the law, a decency. That happiness was of short duration. I was hardly more than two days in that new police office, when I had discovered already that incredible conditions existed there: that there was no polices which interfered against perpetrations, against murder, against arrests, against burglary. There was a police organization which protected just those who committed such perpetrations. The arrested were not these who were guilty of such crimes, they arrested those who sent their cries for help to the police. It was not a police which interfered for protection but a police whose task, it seemed to be, was to hide, to cover up and to sponsor crimes, in fact, because those commandos of the SA and SS who played police, were encouraged by that so-called Secret State Police and all possible aid was given to thorn. The most terrible and best visible fact was to see how a system was of depriving people of their freedom, and it couldn't have been worse. The offices of the now State Police had a tremendous building which was not sufficient to harbor all the captives, A special concentration camp for the Gestapo was installed and the names of those will remain for a terrible shame in history. They were Oranienburg end the private prison of the Gestapo, in the Papenstrasse, the Columbia House or, as it was called cynically, the "Columbia Diele,"(Columbia Hall).
I would like to see to it that there should not be any misunderstanding compared to what we have experienced later, all of us; that certainly was just the beginning; but was how it began and I can only convey my personal impression by remembering one incident. Already, after two days, I asked one of my colleagues, who was also a professional civil servant-he was of the old--had been taken from the old political police into the new one, and he was one of those officials who were forced to belong to that office--so I asked him "Tell me, please; am I here in a police office or in a robber's cave?" The answer that I received was "You are in a burglar's cave and you can expect that you mil see much more yet."
Q. Under whom at that time was the political police?
A. The political police were subordinate to a Rudolph Dieltz. He also came from the old Prussian Political Police. He was a professional career civil servant and one should have believed that he still knew the old concepts of law and decency, but he was brutal, cynical, and determined to the last, and he was intent on forgetting his political past as democrat before the new power to be, and ingratiating himself with his new superior, the Prime Minister of Prussia and Minister of the Interior. It was he who invented the Gestapo office. He inspired Goering to issue the first decree to make these offices independent. It was Dieltz also who let the SA and the SS into this establishment. He covered and legalized the actions of these commandos. But it became evident to me very soon that so much injustice -that one bourgeoise renegade could not commit all of it by himself; he had to have somebody behind him of importance to back him up; and quickly I also realized that day after day, every day, somebody was supervising everything which happened in that office.
Reports were written, telephone inquiries came. Dieltz reported several times daily, and it was the Prussian Minister of the Interior, Goering, who had established and considered that Secret State Police as his special instrument. Nothing happened during these months in that office that Goering did not know personally or ordered personally. I want to emphasize that fact, because throughout the years the public gained a different impression of Goering since he retired gradually from his official affairs. At that time, it wasn't that Goering who finally floundered in the morass of Karin Hall. At that time it was a Goering who personally looked after everything, and he had not yet come to the point where he was busy building Karin Hall or donning all sorts of uniforms or decorations. It was still a Goering in civilian clothes who actually was the Chief of an office, of an organization, who inspired it, and who stressed the fact that he wanted to be the Iron Goering.
Q. Witness, I believe you can be shorter on some points. As to what you said just now, do you know that of your own experience or where did you get that from?
A. Not only from my own experience; I have heard and seen it and I have heard much from one individual who at that time was also a member of the Secret State Police and whose information will play an important part in the course of my statements. Police. Probably the best known expert of the State Police, Oberregierungsrat Nebe. Nebe was a National Socialist. He had been in opposition to the former Prussian police and joined the National Socialist Party. He was a man who sincerely believed in the decency of the National Socialist aims and purposes; and so I saw how this man could find out first-hand what sort of game it was that was played and how he changed his mind. Nebe became a strong opponent and later went the path of opposition, until the 20th of July, and later suffered death at the gallows. Nebe at that time, August, 1933, received from Goering the order to arrest, to kill, a former member of the National Socialist Party, Gregor Strasser, by way of an automobile or hunting accident. That mission shocked Nebe to such an extent that he refused to carry it out and sent a request of that nature to the Reich Chancellory. The answer from the Reichschancellory was that the Fuehrer knew-nothing about that mission. Thereafter Nebe was called to Goering, who reproached seriously to him that he had sent an inquiry about the defendant Goering. Still at the end of all these reproaches he preferred to promote him, because he though he would keep quiet. was that the defendant Goering gave so-called blanket authority for murder to the political police. At that time there were not only so-called amnesty laws which gave amnesty for atrocities afterwards, but there was a special law according to which investigations already underway by police authorities and by state attorneys could be quelled or supressed, under the condition, however, that in those special cases the Reichs Chancellor or Goering personally had to sanction it with their own signature. That law was used by Goering to give blanket authority to the Chief of the Gestapo where only the names of those about to be murdered were left open.
That fact shocked Nebe so much that from that moment on he did his duty in the fight against that Gestapo. At our request he remained in the criminal police, because we needed one man at least who should keep us informed and who could keep us informed about police conditions in case our wishes for an overthrow would come true,
Q. Witness, what did you do yourself when you saw all these things?
A. I on my part attempted to reach those circles who on the basis of my connections seemed to be open to me. I went to various ministries: to the Prussian Ministry of Interior, to State Secretary Grauert, and several department heads. I went to the Reichsminister of Interior, to the Reichs Ministry of Justice, to the Foreign Office; and I went into the Ministry of War. Repeatedly I spoke to the Chief of the Army, General von Hammerstein, and of all connections which I made at that time one again is particularly important for my testimony. At that time I met in the newly founded Intelligence Department of the OKW a Major Auser (?)
I gave him all the material which had been accumulated until then and we began with a collection, which we continued until the 20th of July, of all documents which we could get; and Oster is the man who from then on in the Ministry of War never failed in the case of every officer whom he could reach officially or unofficially to inform them.
In the course of time by the favor of Admiral Canaris Oster became Chief of Staff of the Intelligence. When he was killed at the gallows he was general. But I consider it important to give testimony here already that, after all that this man has done, the unforgettable sacrifice against the Gestapo, against all the crimes which have been committed against humanity end peace, that I believe I car. say that there was under the inflation of German field marshals and generals one German general. observe? ministries one was very receptive. There was still in the ministry the Reich President von Hindenburg. So it came that at the end of October, 1933 the defendant Goering was forced to submit deeds to the Chief of the State Police. At the same time a purge commission was installed in order to restore that institution from the bottom. According to the ministerial decree, Nebe and I were members of that commission. But that purge commission never met. The defendant Goering found ways and means to avoid that measure. He nominated, as chief and as successor for Dieltz, a worse Nazi than these had been, a man named Hinkler, who formerly had been acquitted in a trial for reasons of irresponsibility. And Hinkler carried it so far that hardly thirty days passed until he was dismissed, and now the defendant Goering felt free to recall Dieltz. of the 30th of November, 1933, by which the tasks of the Gestapo were separated from the office of the Ministry of the Interior and put in together with the Prime Minister's office?
A That was the moment of which I speak, I believe. Goering realised that it would not serve his purpose if other ministries were too much concerned about his secret state police. Although he was Prussian Ministry of the Interior also, he was disturbed by the fact that the police department, of the Ministry of the Interior in Prussia could look into the affairs of his private domain and thus he took the secret state police out of the framework of the police and subordinated it to himself personally, thereby excluding all other police offices and channels.
From the point of view of any regulated police organizations, that was nonsense because you cannot create a political police by separating it from criminal police and order police. But Goering knew why he did not want any other police authority to look into the affairs of the secret state police.
Q Witness, did you remain in the police service yourself?
A On that day when Goering -- and I can't find another expression for it -- made his little putsch "Coup d'etat" by creating his own state police, that secret police issued a warrant of arrest against me. I expressedly had gone into hiding. The next morning I went to the Chief of the police department of the Prussian Ministry of the Interior, Ministerial Director Daluege, a high SS, general, and remarked that "it doesn't scorn to be right to have an arrest warrant against me." me right there in the room of the Chief of the Prussian police. Daluege was kind enough to let me free though a back door to State Secretary Grauert, and Grauert intervened with Goering. As always, in similar cases, Goering was very much surprised and ordered a severe investigation. That was the expression used, meaning to say that such incidents were filed. observer to the Reichstag file trials at Leipzig. The last days of November I could make some observations about that dark affair, and since, together with Nebe, I had already attempted to find a clarification of that crime, I could supplement my knowledge there. will limit my statements now only to say that I am ready, if it is necessary, to help Goering to refresh his memory about his knowledge and about his activities concerning this first coup d'etat and the doing away with others by murder. Interior. Did you get in touch with Frick himself or his ministry?
A Yes. Immediately after the Reichstag fire trials were over, that is at the end of 1933, I was dismissed from the police service and sent to East Prussia to a Landrat office.