Q. You declared yesterday that you were responsible for the acts of your subordinates?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you please indicate to me if Dr. Best, Plenipotentiary on Denmark, was a member of your Ministry.
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Best told you, did he not, that Hitler had given an order to assassinate Danes when there were acts of sabotage?
A. May I ask you to repeat the question?
Q. Dr. Best, according to the documents that were produced before the Tribunal, saw you on 30 December 1943 and told you that Hitler had given the order to assassinate Danes when there were acts of sabotage in Denmark; is that so?
A. Yes, that was to be done against saboteurs. That was the order.
Q. The order, according to the terms employed by Dr. Best in the document was to execute without judgment persons, terrorists or non-terrorists. Can that not be considered as assassination?
A. From the beginning Dr. Best and I opposed the hostile measures.
Q. Defendant, I am not trying to say that you were pleased with this state of affairs. I am merely asking you if you were informed thereof. Is that correct?
A. Yes, the Fuehrer wanted that; that is true. I do not know details. I protested against it strongly with the Fuehrer. What was ordered afterwards I do not know because it went through another department, as far as I know.
Q. I note that you were really informed of the Fuehrer's order given that day to permit assassination. You therefore considered it normal to belong to a government, the head of which was a murderer.
A. No, exactly the contrary is true, Prosecutor. Exactly the contrary. I have told him that I was against these measures and that I was of the opposite opinion. Consequently, the Fuehrer was most dissatisfied with Dr. Best, and he had the matter handled by some other sources, since Dr. Best opposed the matter, and I opposed it, too.
Q. I am merely asking you to answer my question simply. You can give details through your Counsel later. in order to deport them. Did you not have anything to do with that?
A. I can not tell you anything about the matters relating to Jews in Denmark.
Q. You never heard anything about them, did you?
A. I can recollect that I once discussed the question with Best and that this question had no significance. He was not proposing to do anything violent about the Jewish question there, and I agreed.
Q. I ask that you be shown Document 2375-PS.
M. FAURE: This document has not been submitted to the Tribunal. I would like to submit it under French Number 1503.
Q. I would like to read with you the second paragraph of that document. It is an affidavit from a commander of the Police in Denmark.
"As command, I was subordinate to Dr. Best. In the matter of Jews, I asked Dr. Best to give me the reasons for the measures that were ordered. Dr. Best declared to me that the Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Reich obviously knew Hitler's intention to exterminate the Jews in Europe. He had furnished to Hitler a report about the Jewish problem in Denmark and presented his observation thereon.
"Dr. Best declared furthermore that Ribbentrop assumed the responsibility for the case of Jews remaining in Denmark. Dr. Best also had to carry out the measures that were proposed to Hitler by Ribbentrop. I was therefore to get in touch with Dr. Best --"
A That is absolute and complete imagination, what is written in this Apr-2-M-RT-2-1 document.
That is perfectly untrue. deposit under the French number 1502. It is an order of the 24 September 1942 from Hitler, addressed to his collaborators. I wish to read with you the first two paragraphs of that document.
"The Minister for Foreign Affairs has instructed me today by telephone to hasten as much as possible evacuation of Jews from different countries in Europem since it is certain that Jews incite against us everywhere and must be made responsible for acts of sabotage and attacks. After a short lecture on the evacuations now in process in Slovakia, Croatia, Rumania and the occupied territories, the RAM has ordered that we are to approach the Bulgarian, Hungarian and Danish Governments with the goal of getting the evacuation started in these Countries." participation in the deportation of Jews in Denmark. Do you agree?
A It is correct. It was the Fuehrer's plan at the time that the Jews should be sent to North Africa from Europe to Asia. They were to be evacuated, and he had given me the order to approach several governments so as to bring about an emigration of the Jews, if possible, and to have the Jews removed from important government posts. Such instructions were given by me to the Foreign Office at the time, and according to my recollection, on several occasions certain governments have been approached. This concerns the emigration of Jews to certain parts in North Africa, that is true. May I return once more to that affidavit? That is utter and complete imagination and perfectly incorrect on the part of Colonel Mildner. discussed the Jewish question with me, and he considered that as far as Denmark was concerned, it was of no particular importance, since there were so few Jews. I declared that he would have to leave things alone there. That is the truth. that you did give the order to evacuate the Jews of Denmark?
A No, I have just said no, not in Denmark. I don't know that document originally was Mr. Luther's.
Q Please answer my questions; otherwise we waste a lot of time.
Apr-2-M-RT-2-2 Do you say that both of these documents are incorrect?
A I didn't say that. That is not true. What I said was that I didn't know the Luther document, but what is true is that the Fuehrer gave instructions to me that I was to tell the Foreign Office to approach certain foreign governments in order to solve the Jewish question in such a way that they were to be removed from government positions, and that wherever possible an emigration of Jews should be favored.
Q The German embassy in Paris was under your orders, was it not? Government, was certainly under my jurisdiction. defined the functions if Ambassador bets. In this document, which you have already heard twice, I would remind you that you gave Abetz permission to put in a sure place the public and private art treasures, particularly those that belonged to Jews, and you laid down various conditions relating thereto. Abetz executed this mission by pillaging art collections in France? produced, and to which I should like to give the French number 15055. I will merely go over a few lines of that document with you. It is a report from the military administration which was distributed to 700 numbers. It is a report on the removal of French art objects by the German Embassy in France. If you will look at page No. 3a, you will see that the title in the margin is very significant: "The German Embassy right to remove articles of art from the Louvre."
A When may I refer to the individual points? Not at all or what?
Q When I ask you a question you will answer. I am reading a passage to you "Therefore Ambassador Abetz undertook, violating the prohibition pronounced by the military authorities to send to Germany"-
A I can't find the part you are reading. What page is it on?
Apr-2-M-RT-2-3 Q "Ambassador Abetz undertook, thereby violating the prohibition pronounced by the military authorities, to send to Germany a whole series of articles from the Louvre which had been placed in security."
A No, I want to say this: This is perfectly untrue. Not a single work of art has been taken out of the Louvre by Ambassador Abetz. That would have been contrary to my distinct orders and it would have been against the Mr Fuehrer's wishes, and he had prohibited it strictly. In other words, in this point the report is completely incorrect. ment wanted to present me with a work of ant from the Louvre. That was a painting by Bouchet. That painting was in fact sent to Berlin on the occasion of my Birthday and I returned it to the French Government. That is all I know about art treasures from the Louvre. I don't own any of them and the Foreign Office never saw a single work of art originating from the Louvre.
THE PRESIDENT: What is this report you are putting to him?
M.FAURE: It is a report from the German Military Administration, which is in the American documents in the PS series. The Tribunal received a general affidavit referring thereto.
It is an American document.
I indicate to the Tribunal that this report contains numerous other passages relating to Abetz's actions,
THE WITNESS: This isn't a report on booty, that document.
BY M. FAURE:
Q Please answer my questions. We are not going to engage in a controversy. Your counsel can interrogate you later on.
DR.HORN: (counsel for defendant Ribbentrop): Please may I clarify just submitted to the defendant? If it is said this is a captured document and it is not, then it has torbenput right here and at once.
MR. FAURE: I have already indicated that these documents belong to the PS series of captured documents. The document has a large number of such documents and I do not think that its authenticity will be disputed.
BY M.FAURE:
Apr-2-M-RT-2-3
Q I would like to ask you now the following question:
THE PRESIDENT: Are you going to ask further questions upon this document?
N. FAURE: No, Mr. President. Apart from the question of ext treasures, Abetz also looked after the question of treatment of Jews. with the Jewish question of France either. That question was being handled by other departments. view to settling the situation of German or Austrian descent who were residing in France?
A I don't know and I can't recollect it.
Q I would like to show you Document BG 265 (?), which I ask to lodge as French document 1504. It is a telegram from Abetz dated 1 October 1940. I will read merely the first and last pages.
"The solution of the Jewish problem in the occupied territory of France requires besides various measures a regulation as soon as possible of the citizenship status of the Reich German Jews who were living here at the beginning of the war."
And the last page:
"The measures proposed here above are to be considered as merely the first stop towards the solution of the entire problem. I reserve to myself to make ether proposals."
A May I please ask to be given time to read that telegram first?
THE PRESIDENT: That is a little too fast.
M. FAURE: Yes.
A (Continuing) So far as I can see, this telegram is concerned with the fact that Austrian and German Jews should be transported from France to Germany. I don't know anything about it. I am seeing this telegram for the first time today, and I can't give you any information on it. This is probably one of the measures taken in the ordinary course of work at the Foreign Office, which, however, was not submitted to me. Apart from that, those matters were dealt with by other departments and not by us. the distribution list. There were nineteen, including yourself, is that not so? You were number 2. or eight hundred such documents and telegrams reached my office, of which one or two percent were submitted to me. At any rate, I don't know this telegram. you collaborated with your subordinates at that Embassy and also looked after the question of French Jews. sentences from a document which was deposited before the Tribunal as French document number 1207. It is a report from Dannecker, who was charged with the Job** a affairs in France. This is what is said by Dannecker in his conclusion.
"In this matter, I cannot speak of this question without mentioning the friendly collaboration that is given to us by Ambassador Abetz and his representative Schleier, and Dr. Weitschel, Consul of the Embassy. I should like to make it clear that the German Embassy in Paris furnished, of its own initiative, large sums of money in this matter of the Jews, and that it will continue."
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Faure, we don't know where you are reading from.
M. FAURE: Mr. President, this document was not given to you in full in this folder because it was already produced before the Tribunal.
I merely wish to read the phrase that I have been reading.
THE PRESIDENT: All right. BY M. FAURE: German Embassy--Abetz, Schleier and Weitschel-- collaborated with Dannecker in the settlement of Jewish affair. That does arise from the document, does it not?
A Is that a question? Am I supposed to answer that? I don't know.
A To that question I must answer "certainly". Certainly, in some way, we collaborated in the Jewish question in France, that is perfectly clear. However, I can also add to that that the French Prosecution must certainly be informed about the fact that Ambassador Abetz was instructed by me, and also acted on his own accord, to alleviate that situation. Whatever the Embassy may have done in this respect, and just how it participated, for that, of course, I have to assume responsibility. But I want to repeat once again that my instructions and the activities of Ambassador Abetz were always to the contrary. It is perfectly clear that because of the principle, or the anti-Semitic tendency of German policy, this would spread to all departments, and that, of course, in some sphere or other, every department would come in contact with those matters. cases if we had the files here--was to act as an intermediary in this sphere. Quite often we had to act with the anti- Semitic policy, but we always tried afterwards to retrieve these steps and to alleviate the difficulties. In fact, so far as France is concerned, the Foreign Office does not bear the responsibility for any measures against the Jews.
THE PRESIDENT: Could you speak a little bit lower, or a little bit away from the microphone?
THE WITNESS: Yes, certainly. BY M. FAURE: a French document--which is a second report from Dannecker of the 22nd of February, 1942.
I should like to refer to page 3 of that document.
A I should like to say right now that I don't even know who Dannecker is. Perhaps you can give me some information on that subject. affairs in France. As a matter of fact, those documents were deposited a long time before with the Tribunal and communicated to the defense. particular paragraph entitled, "Action", from which I read one sentence: "Up to the present, three important operations have been undertaken against the Jews."
A May I ask you once mere where I can find that part, on what page?
Q Page 2 of the German version, under the heading "Action".
Q I read once more: "Up to the present three important operations have been carried out against the Jews in Paris." paragraph but one, we read as follows: "Since the year 1941 there has been a conference every Tuesday, One, two, and three, military commands; four, German Embassy; five, a representative of Rosenberg. The conference has, as a result, with very few exceptions, naturally, referred to the matters concerning Jewish policy that have been carried out in the occupied territories." being mentioned here--naturally, they would have included themselves in this proceedings. the German Embassy of the 27th of June, 1942, addressed to the head of the Security Police and the SD in France; and before asking you a question I would like to read with you the first two paragraphs of this letter:
"Following my interview with Dannecker on the date of the 27th of June, during which he indicated that he required that 50,000 Jews of the free zone be deported to the East and that it was necessary to support the effort:
of the Commissar, Marti de Pelpoi, where the situation appears, I informed Ambassador Abetz of this matter and Counsellor Hahn. The latter is to confer with *aval, and he promised me that he would speak to him at once about the handing over of these 50,000 Jews. Also, there is thematter of giving full powers to Marti de Pelpoi and to report to him at once as to the credits which have been promised to him."
Now, I should like to ask you a question. I ask you to answer as briefly as possible. Jews? it, when this document was read out before. subject without informing you, was it not because they thought they were following your general directives?
A No, I don't believe so. They were acting rather independently in Paris, but I would like to repeat that I am assuming responsibility for everything that these gentlemen have done. I want to repeat that and make it clear. However, I knew nothing about this matter regarding 50,000 Jews, and I don't even know whether it was carried out; and just where and when these men included themselves in the proceedings is not clear from the letter. mark time regarding those matters, and I made my conception clear to the men under me and told them not to do anything to force matters, but, on the contrary, to keep thorn down. I cannot say more on the subject. public prosecutor produced a document, 3319-PS, under the British number 287. I should like to refer to this document briefly for one question. In this document there is an account of a meeting, or a congress, at which were present all the reporters on Jewish questions in Europe. This congress was held on the 3rd and 4th of April, 1944. It was organized by Schleier, Did you know anything about this congress?
A. No. This is the first time I have heard about it. What sort of congress is that? I have never heard that it took place. What is it supposed to be?
Q. This document was deposited -
A. I only know about one congress. I asked the Fuehrer not to hold it. But about one which took place I know nothing at all. I should like you to give me some more detailed information on that, please.
Q. The document was handed over to the Tribunal, and I would like to ask you one question. You testified that you were unaware of this meeting where there were present thirty-one persons who nearly all belonged to the diplomatic service. I will indicate to you that during this meeting the counsellor of the embassy made a declaration which was reported in the following terms: that the Jews should be deported into the eastern territories. I suggest that this declaration made by the counsellor of the embassy in the presence of 31 people belonging to your service probably voiced your own attitude on these matters.
A. I don't even know what you are referring to. Please, may I have some information regarding what we are concerned with? I am not the least informed. I have already told you once before that I know nothing about a congress except that there was one which I stopped. That was an international one which was supposed to be held, but regarding a congress of diplomats I know nothing. Please would you place at my disposal the document so that I can define my attitude.
Q. I do not intend to show you this document. I read one sentence contained in this document, and I now am asking you merely if this phrase represent your opinion or not. You can answer yes or no.
A. In that case I want to state again that there wasn't a congress; it didn't take place; it isn't proced.
DR. HORN: Mr. President, I object to that question if the opportunity is not afforded the Defendant to give a thruthful answer.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks the question was proper.
Q. I ask you whether this phrase which I have read out to you reflects your opinion.
A. In that case may I ask you to repeat the sentence. I didn't understand it.
Q. The speaker said that while the solution of Jewish matters in Palestine and several other ones would have to be thrown out, one would have to carry out the deportation of Jews in the eastern territories. Was that your policy?
A. No, it was not.
Q. Your attention was drawn to the fact that the Italian authorities in France protected Jews against persecution by Germans?
A. Yes. I recollect that there was some such matter, but I don't remember exactly.
Q. Did you take any steps about the result of this with the Italian Government?
A. I recollect that on one occasion I talked with either Mussolini or Count Ciano about certain sabotage acts which had occurred in Grance and that one would have to be on the alert. And I think in that connection the Jewish problem was discussed too.
Q. I ask that you be shown Document D-734, which I would like to deposit as French document 1501. This note is headed:
"Note of a conversation between the Reich Foreign Minister and the Duce in the presence of Von Mackensen, Alferi and Bastianini on the 25th of February 1943." I would like to read with you the second paragraph on this page:
"Further, the Reich foreign minister dealt with the Jewish question. The Duce was aware that Germany took up a radical position on the question of the treatment of Jews. As a result of the development of the war in Russia it had gained even greater clarity. All Jews had been transported from Germany and from the territories occupied by her to reserves in the east. He, the Reich foreign minister, knew that this measure was described as cruel, particularly by enemies, but it was necessary in order to be able to carry the war through to a successful conclusion."
I shall not read the following paragraph, but the fourth:
"France also had taken measures against the Jews, which were extremely useful.
They were only temporary, because here too the final solution would be in the deportation of the Jews to the East. He, the Reich Foreign Minister, knew that in Italian military circles -- just occasionally among German military people too-- the Jewish problem was not sufficiently appreciated. Only this could he understand an order of the Commands Supreme which cancelled measures in the Italian occupation zone of France which had been taken against the Jews by the French authorities acting under German influence.
"The Duce contested the accuracy of this report and traced it back to the French tactics of causing dissension between Germany and Italy."
Now I shall ask you a question: A short while ago you told us that one wanted to send all the Jews to Madagascar. Is Madagascar in the eastern territories you are talking of?
A. I didn't understand. Madagascar what?
Q. You were talking in this document of deporting Jews towards the eastern territories, and a short while ago you spoke to us of settling the Jews in Madagascar.
A. No. That was the Fuehrer's plan. This document refers to the fact that a large-scale espionage system had been uncovered in France, and on the occasion of a journey into Italy the Fuehrer told me to talk with Mussolini and make sure that these Jews who concerned themselves with espionage and sabotage were stopped from doing so. I should like to say right away that on priniple I knew what the Fuehrer's plan was, namely, that the European Jews were either to be resettled in Madagascar or in Africa or in the East. That was generally known in Germany. That is what we are concerned with here in this document. I know that at that time a lot of unpleasant matters had occurred, and the Fuehrer was convinced that this had to be attributed to Jewish organizations which were located in southern France. I now recollect that at that time I discussed the matter very minutely with Mussolini and that we agreed to take corresponding measures. These Jews were helping the American and British intelligence service and supplying information to them. At least that is what the Fuehrer was continuously told.
Q. You said, did you not, that all Jews had to be deported to the eastern territories? Please reply yes or no.
A. Whether I was in favor?
Q. Germany deported from German territory and territories occupied by her all Jews to eastern territories. That is true, is it not?
A. I don't know what this document is. I don't know what I did say in detail. But at any rate I knew that the Fuehrer had ordered that the Jews of the occupied territories in Europe were to be transported to a certain district in the east where they were to be settled. I knew that. But the carrying out of these measures was not my task as foreign minister or the task of the foreign office. But I did know that this was the Fuehrer's wish. In this connection I do remember that I received the order from his to discuss the matter with the Italian Government so that they too would introduce corresponding measures regarding the Jewish problem. That applied to other countries too, where we had to send telegrams quite frequently, so that these countries did solve the Jewish question.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you read to the witness the second paragraph beginning "Further, the Reich Foreign Minister dealt with the Jewish question"? Did you read that to the witness?
M. FAURE: Yes, Mr. President, the second paragraph. That is the paragraph which I have just been reading.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you read the third one, but I don't know whether you read the second one too. You read the second one too, did you? Very well.
M. FAURE: Yes, I read it as well, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: The document is a new document, is it not?
M. FAURE: Yes, it is a new document. It is a document which I would like to deposit under the number 1501. It is originally D-734 of the British document books.
THE PRESIDENT: Has the Defendant said whether he admist that it is a substantially accurate account of the conversation?
THE WITNESS: I can't say for certain, Mr. President, what I did say at the time, but I gather that, from the words that the Jews were spreaders of information -- I do remember that a large espionage and sabotage organization was going at the time in France, and that the Fuehrer ordered me in this connection to talk to Mussolini, since the Italians were working against certain measures we had introduced in France.
So I talked with Mussolini, and the Fuehrer was of the opinion that one would have to create clear conditions.
THE PRESIDENT: I believe you already told us that. The question that I asked was whether you agreed that it was a substantially accurate account of the conversation.
THE WITNESS: I consider that in certain points the report is incorrect, but basically the position was as I have just explained it. BY M. FAURE: you not, this Jewish question?
A Yes. I had to have repeated conferences with the Hungarian Government to get then to do something about the Jewish problem. The Fuehrer was extremely keen on it. So I talked about the question to the Hungarian Ambassador at a time when we mostly were concerned with the fact that in a certain part of Budapest, which I don't know very well, the Jews were to be concentrated somewhere. That was Point 1. since in the preceding years it had become clear that Jewish influence was decisive here to bring Hungary to a separate peace. tion or one of the conversations which you had with Horthy. It was that of the 17th of April 1943. It is that one numbered 736, which has been deposited under GB-283. asked this witness if he admitted having compiled this account, and this was confirmed by Schmidt. This bears the following note, at the bottom of the first paragraph:
"The Foreign Minister declared that the Jews were to be sent to concentration camps. There is no other solution."
You did say that, did you not?
A In these words, most certainly not. But I would like to say this on *---* ct. These minutes were apparently prepared by Ambassador Schmidt, as *---* habit, days after a long discussion of the Fuehrer with Horthy.
*---* already said repeatedly that the Fuehrer ordered me to talk to *---* ian Government, their Ambassador, so as to bring about a solution *---* wish question.
At that time when Horthy visited the Fuehrer, the Fuehrer emphasized to him the question very strongly, and I remember exactly that following the discussion I talked to Ambassador Schmidt, saying that I didn't quite understand the Fuehrer.
That remark here was certainly not made in this way. Apparently Horthy said that after all he couldn't beat the Jews to death. It is possible that I said that was out of the question, andI tried to get Horthy back to the idea that he would have to do something about the Jewish question in Budapest, which means that he would, have to carry out the concentration which had been desired by the Fuehere. It was probably in that connection that this remark of mine fell, and this is what it may refer to.
I want to add that at that time the situation was that on Himmler's part there had been repeated calls upon us, indicating that Himmler wished to handle the Jewish question in Hungary himself. I didn't want that, since this would probably create a foreign political difficulties. to that question, I have often tried to act as an intermediary, but at the same time to get the Hungarians to do something in the matter. Therefore, if some remark, which was taken from a long conversation and summarized here, did contain some such statement, then it certainly never meant that I wanted the Jews beaten to death. That was 100 per cent against my inner attitude. I will have to ask you again. Are those minutes correct, or are they not correct?
A No, in this form it can't be correct. These are minutes which I have never seen personally. Otherwise, I would have at once pointed out that this is nonsense and could be misunderstood, so I hadn't really seen the minutes. It was herein Nurnberg that I saw them for the first time.
I can only say that it seems to have happened that I did say "Well, you can't beat the Jews to death; well, then, do something, so that the Fuehrer is at last satisfied about it."
And about the concentration of the Jews. That was, at any rate at that time, the aim we had. In other words, we didn't want to make things worse there.
We were trying to do something in Hungary so that no other department took matters in hand, thus causing foreign political difficulties for the Foreign Office.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you passing from this document?
M. FAURE: I was continuing to speak of this document in more general terms.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you say you were passing from it? to the Regent Horthy that Jews ought to be taken to concentration camps.
THE WITNESS: Yes, I consider that possible. I think that is the case. It was our order at the time that a concentration camp was to be installed near Budapest where theJews could be concentrated, and the Fuehrer had given me the order a long time before that to talk about the Jewish problem to the Hungarians. There were to be two points: One, removal of the Jews from important Government positions. Two, as there were so many Jews in Budapest, there was to be a concentration of Jews in certain parts of the city of Budapest.
THE PRESIDENT: I understand your suggestion to be that this document is inaccurate.
THE WITNESS: That isn't accurate, that's right, yes. The way I would like to put it is that it appears when you read the document as if I had considered possible a beating to death or destruction of the Jews. That is perfectly untrue, for what I said on the occasion which was written down later could only be understood so that I wished that something was done in Hungary which would solve the Jewish problem so that no other department would interfere in the matter. The Fuehrer often talked to me about it, very seriously, and said that the question of the Jews in Hungary -
THE PRESIDENT: (Interposing) You have told us that, I think already. What I wanted to ask you was this: Are you suggesting that Schmidt, who drew up this memorandum, invented the last few sentences, beginning with the words:
"If the Jews there did not want to work they were shot. If they could not work they had to succumb. They had to be treated like tuberculosis bacil with which a healthy body may become infected.
This was not cruel if one remembered that innocent creatures of nature, such as hares or deers, have to be killed so that no harm is caused by them. Why should the beasts who wanted to bring us Bolshevism be spared more? Nations which did not rid themselves of Jews perished. One of the most famous examples of this was the downfall of a people who were once so proud, the Persians, who now lead a pitiful existence as Armenians." them?
THE WITNESS: Mr. President, I should like to say that I myself was amazed by those words of the Fuehrer, and I didn't quite understand them. But this attitude can probably only be understood in this way, that the Fuehrer believed that the Jews had brought about this war, and that that caused his fanatical hatred for them. and we agreed that this was the first time the Fuehrer had used words in connection with the Jewish problem which I could no longer understand. These words were no doubt not invented by Schmidt. The Fuehrer did express himself in some such way at that time. That is true.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, M. Faure. BY M. FAURE: tration camps in Hungary and that you said yesterday that you did not know there were any in Germany. Is that not so? What I said was that the Fuehrer had given me orders to talk to the Hungarian Government so that the Jews were concentrated in certain parts of the city of Budapest. About my knowledge of concentration camps in Germany, I have already talked yesterday about that.
Q You admitted that you knew Hitler's policy to deport all Jews and you admitted that insofar as you were competent as Minister for Foreign affairs, you assisted this policy, did you not? That is right, is it not?
A In this sphere too I have obeyed the Fuehrer's orders as a faithful follower, but I have always tried to do everything to alleviate this position, which can be proved by witnesses.
Even in 1943 I submitted a long memorandum to the Fuehrer in which I asked him urgently to alter the Jewish policy completely and basically, and I could quote many other examples.
to this persecution of Jews, but you did help to realize them, is that not so? that I have never been anti-Semitic in that sense, but that I was a faithful follower of Adolf Hitler. arresting French people, did you not?
A The arresting of Frenchmen?
Q Yes, Did you or did you not give orders to arrest Frenchmen?
Q Can you be more precise on that subject?
A No, I can't recollect any details. At any rate, I know that Frenchmen were arrested, but just how far we carried that out, that I don't know. I think it was in 1944, shortly before the invasion, that the Fuehrer had given an order that a large number of important French members of the Resistance Movement were to be arrested, and I think that we were informed about that. Therefore it is possible that we cooperated in that action, but I can't remember the details. These were the arrests of these elements, which, in the event of an invasion, would lead the Resistance Movement, thus falling to the back of the German troops But I can't tell you any details about that now Number 1506. It is an affidavit, by Dr. Ka*chen. I shall read some passages from this document.
"At the end of 1943--IV must have been in December--there was at the Foreign Office a conference on the measures to be taken in France. As I was in Berlin I was Immediately summoned to it. I took part in this conference, Ribbentrop, the Secretary of State, Ambassador Abetz, another member of the Foreign Office, whose name I f orget, the head of the SIPO-it must have been Kaltenbrunner--the head of to Police Department in France, and a representative of the High Military Command, a Colonel Kossman, if my memory serves me right.