opposite the crematorium, and if we did not see the execution itself, every shot reached our ears, and we saw the men who were condemend face to face with us, kissing one another before taking leave, going up in the stairway.
Q Who were these men who were condemned? members of the Bolshevick party.
Q I beg your pardon, but there were officers among them?
Q Did you know where they came from? a general rule, they were locked up as they arrived in camp. Either they were taken directly to prison or else to Block No. 20.
Q How did you know they were officers?
Q Did all of them come from prisoner-of-war camps?
Q You din't really know?
A No, we really didn't know. It was a question of knowing the nationality of individuals by other details. officers, about whom you have just spoken to us who were executed in the stairway of the quarry, did you know where they came from?
A They were fliers, air corps officers. It is possible that their aircraft had been brought down. They might have parachuted and they sought clandestinely to rejoin their country. officers? That was a common occurrence? ated in Mauthausen?
Q Could you cite a few? the executions under a special method, of part of a convoy coming from Sachsahusen. This took place on the 17th of February 1945. taken back toward Austria. A convoy of 2,500 internees left Sachsahusen. They arrived on the morning of the 17th of February at Mauthausen. There were about 1700 approximately. 800 had died from cold or had been brought down in the course of the journey. really overcrowded. Therefore, from the very moment of arrival of these 1700 survivors of this convoy, Kommandant Dachmeier had 400 of them selected from among the group insisting that the sick and the old and the weak prisoners should come forward with the idea that they might be taken to the infirmary. These 400 men, who either were designated or were just simply selected were stripped entirely naked.
It was 18 degrees below zero.
Q You saw that thing yourself, did you not? You are citing this as a direct witness?
Q Where were you at that time?
A I was at Mauthausen. This scene lasted, as I said, 18 hours,
Q Very well. Will you please continue? You have spoken to and People's Kommissars.
Did you see German personalities frequently in the camp?
A Yes, but I can't give you the names.
Q You didn't know them. I must say that Himmler was somewhat special, but you did know they were eminent personalities?
were coming there?
A Indeed we did. First of all, the visit of these personages If you will allow me, I'd like to go on with my explanation of the murder of these 400 people who came from Sachshausen.
I was below zero.
Several of them were immediately struck by pulmonary infection, but it seemed to the SS that it wasn't going fast enough.
three times a half hour under freezing water. Then they had to come strewn over the area.
Let me add that the last of them were easily be verified.
Among the 400 men I have mentioned there was a Major in the French Ministry of War.
This man, this Captain, was among the 400.
He owed his escape to the fact that he hid amongst the corpses and thus escaped the blows of the axe.
When the corpses He was caught again.
He owed his salvation to the fact that running from a mass of corpses.
We took care of him. We helped
Q Do you know why these executions were carried out?
A Because there were too many people in the camp; because rapid to place them with working commandos.
The blocks were over populated.
That is the only explanation that was given.
condemned to death by German tribunals. Probably a few for many sentence might be carried out.
It is probable that we are here constructed?
Would you please tell us that?
Q So you are giving us indirect testimony?
A Yes, indirect testimony. But all of the internees knew of it, including the SS themselves.
The revier was constructed by the first Soviet prisoners who arrived in Mauthausen.
Four thousand blocks of the revier or hospital.
The memory of that massacre or hospital by any other name than by "Russian Camp."
The SS them selves called the revier the "Russian Camp."
Q How many Frenchmen were at Mauthausen?
Q How many of you came back?
of the year. When we left at the end of April, 1945, there were still about 1,600.
All the rest had been exterminated.
Q Where did these Spaniards come from?
Q Is this all you have to tell us?
This took place also during September, 1944. I am sorry if the date is not quite accurate in my memory.
What I do know is that it commandos had to answer evening roll call inside of the camp.
That ordinarily.
Someone was missing. After a long wait and searches who perhaps had fallen asleep, had forgotten to answer roll call;roll call.
Immediately the dogs and the SS went toward the let loose upon this unfortunate Soviet man.
He was torn to shreds
Q What kind of conditions weren't placed on all prisoners?
of the prisoner? Or perhaps their racial background--would that cause any distinction to be made amongst them?
blocks and the annex political blocks. The conditions under which we worked, the selection of the commandos to which we were assigned, sometimes permitted some of the guards to accentuate the harsh treatment. As to the things that we were able to obtain, those who worked in the kitchen or in the stores or other places where supplies were available naturally had more than others.
Q What about the Jews? How did they work? Under what conditions?
AAt Mauthausen the Jews had the hardest of the commandos. I must call attention to the fact that until December 1943 the Jews did not live more than three months in Mauthausen. There were very few of them at the end.
Q What happened in that camp after the murder of Heydrich?
A There is in this connection a particularly dramatic episode. Mauthausen included 3,000 Czechs, 600 of whom were intellectuals. After the murder of Heydrich the Czech colony in the camp was exterminated with the exception of 300 from the 3,000, and six intellectuals from the 600 that were in the camp.
Q Did anyone speak to you of scientific experiments?
A They were commonplace at Mauthausen, as they were in other camps. But we have testimony which I think has been recovered: the two craniums which were used as paper weights for the chief SS medical officer. These craniums came from two young Dutch Jews who had been taken from a convoy of 800 selected because they had fine teeth. these two young Dutch Jews would not be exposed to the fate of their comrades on the convoy. He had said to them "Here the Jews do not live. I need two healthy, solid, strong men to make surgical experiments. You have your choice; either you will accept that these experiments be performed on you or else you will have the fate of others." of them, the removal of his kidney, the other the removal of his stomach. Then they were inoculated in the heart with benzin. They were decapitated, and I have told you that the two craniums had fine sets of teeth, and they could be seen until the time of the liberation on the desk of the chief doctor of the SS.
Q At the time of Himmler's visit -- I'd like to come back to that -- you are certain that you recognized Himmler and you saw him presiding over the executions.
Do you think that what was taking place in Mauthausen could be ignored, could be unknown by members of the German Government? The visits that you knew about, were they visits by the SS, or were they simply other personalities?
A For the first of your questions, we all knew Himmler, and if we hadn't known him everyone knew in the camp, and the SS told us, that this visit was anticipated. We were told of that a few days earlier. He was present at the beginning of the executions of these Soviet individuals. I said a little while ago that this execution lasted throughout the whole afternoon so he didn't remain until the end.
With regard to -- will you tell me your second question again? camp visited by other personalities other than SS? Did you know the SS uniforms? The people you saw, the authorities whom you saw -- did they all wear the same identical uniform? speaking, soldiers, that is, officers. More recently, a few weeks before the liberation, we had a visit from the Gauleiter of the Oberdonau. We also had frequent visits from members of the Gestapo. But the people, that is, the Austrian population, were perfectly aware of what was going on at Mauthausen. The commandos were nearly all external commandos, commandos from the outside.
I said a little while age that I was working at Messerschmidt. The leaders were German civilians who were mobilized. In the evening they went back to their families. They knew quite well our sufferings and the conditions in which we were. They frequently saw in the shop individuals summoned from the shop to be executed, and they were witnesses of the most of the massacres that I mentioned a little while ago.
there arrived once in Mauthausen 30 firemen from Vienna. They were locked up for having participated in some sort of labor activity. The firemen from Vienna told us that in Vienna when one wanted to frighten children they were told "If you are not a good boy I will send you to Mauthausen."
Perhaps it is a detail, but this detail is more important. One-fourth of Mauthausen was situated in the village, and every night the chimneys of the crematorium could throw their light in the sky over the whole region, and everyone knew the use to which the crematorium was put. from the camp. The convoys of deportees were brought to the station of the town. The whole population could see the parade of these convoys. The whole population knew under what conditions these convoys were brought and taken to the camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Does the Soviet prosecutor wish to ask any questions?
GEN. RUDENKO: I should like to ask a few questions.
BY GEN. RUDENKO: officers? reasons for their condemnation or for their execution, but as a general rule, all the Soviet officers, all the Political commissars, or known members of the Bolshevist Party, were executed in Mauthausen. If a few among them succeeded in getting through it is because their identity was not known to the SS. Himmler was present. which you have mentioned?
assassinated in their job because probably the burden placed upon them, as far as requirements were concerned, the lack of food to which they were subjected did not permit them to carry out the tasks assigned to them. They were murdered on the spot with sticks - beatings from sticks, and sometimes just shot down by the SS or sometimes they were obliged to go to the wires, and they were brought down by the guards. I cannot give more details, since, as I said, I was not a witness, visual witness, of that scene.
Q It is quite clear. And one more question: Can you tell me in detail about the relation of the Czech colony?
A The same reservations must be made that I voiced a moment ago. I was not in the camp at the time of the extermination of the 3,000 Czechs, but the Czech survivors with whom I had relations in 1944 were unanimous in certifying to the accuracy of this fact, and probably as far as their own country is concerned have established a list of these murders. kill people and to shoot people without any jurisdiction?
A That is exactly a fact. The life of a man at Mauthausen counted for absolutely nothing.
GEN. RUDENKO: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any member of the Defendants Counsel wish to ask any questions of this witness? Then the witness may retire. Wait a minute: one moment. BY THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle):
Q Do you know how many guards there were at the camp? 1,200 SS and also soldiers of the Volkssturm. However, it should be stated that only 50 to 60 SS were authorized to come inside the camp.
Q Sixty SS men? Were they SS men that were authorized to go into the camp?
Q All SS men?
THE PRESIDENT: Then the witness can retire.
M. DUBOST: With your permission, we shall proceed with the presentation of our case on German atrocities in the western countries of Europe from 1939 to 1945 by introducing in regard to this testimony all of the details which prove common law crimes. This general idea on which we are going to base our whole thesis of terrorism by Germany was conceived as a means of exercising government over all the people who had been subjected to German domination. French witness, according to which, in Vienna, when one wishes to frighten a child one says to them something about Mauthausen.
deported to Germany, where they were placed in camps -- locked in camps or in prison. With regard to the prisons, the information that we have concerning them has been taken from the official report of the Ministry of Prisoners of War, which we have already given, and which is this bound volume which was placed in your hands this morning. You will find therein, specifically on page 35 and page 36, down to page 42, a detailed statement as to what the prisons were like in Germany.
THE PRESIDENT: 174?
MR. DUBOST: I beg your pardon. It was 274, on page 35. The Tribunal may read that the prison of Cologne where numerous Frenchmen were interned, was placed between the freight station and the main station, so that the Prosecutor in Cologne wrote in a report, which is used by the Ministry of Deportees and Prisoners of War in the book which is before us, that the location of that prison is so dangerous that one could not instal a factory in that area; the internees could not seek shelter during the bombardment. They remained in their block, locked in even if fire developed.
The victims of bombardment in the prisons themselves were numerous. The May 1944 bombardment killed 200 victims in the prison of Alexander Platz in Berlin.
The buildings were always dirty, damp, and very small. The internees were three or four times as numerous as the facilities permitted in Aix-laChapelle. In Munster the women who were there in November 1943 lived underground without any air. In Frankfurt the internees had sort of iron cages, two metros by one fifty metres for cells. Any hygiene was impossible. At Aix-La-Chapelle, as in many other prisons, the internees had only one bucket in the middle of the room, and it was forbidden to empty it during the day.
The food ration was extremely limited. As a general rule, ersatz coffee in the morning with a thin slice of bread; a soup at noon; a thin slice of bread at night with a little margarine or sausage or marmalade.
The internees were exposed to extremely heavy labor. Whatever the work that was carried out, the duration required, the day's labor, was about twelve hours.
At Cologne, specifically, from 7 o'clock in the morning to 9 O'clock or 10 o'clock in the evening, that is to say, 14 or 15 consecutive hours. This is still from the file of the Public Prosecutor of Cologne, Document No. 87 of the Ministry of Prisoners. There was a shoe factory. Most of the workers were Frenchmen who had refused firmly to work in war industry; for example, the fabrication of gas masks, sliding guns for shells, radio or telephone apparatus intended for the Army. In such cases Berlin gave orders to send the recalcitrants to reprisal camps. For example, the shipment of women from Kottbus to Ravensbruck on 13 November 1944. The Geneva Convention was, of course, not applied. This is a German official text from the Public Prosecutor of Cologne.
There was practically no medical supervision. There was no prophylactic measure taken in these places in the event of epidemics, or else the SS doctor knowingly and willingly gave the wrong kind of medicine to the patients. Gammradt, who was a former major in the German Army, the SS or SA guards fought the internees savagely. Dysentry, diphtheria, pulmonary lesions, pleurisy, were not any reason for stoppage of work, and those who were gravely ill were forced to work until the very limit of their strength, and they were only admitted in the hospital as an exception. the other internees to lose half of their ration. You had to go to toilets on order. At Magdebourg any recalcitrants had to make one hundred genuflexions before the guards. The interrogations were carried out in the same manner as in France, that is, with brutality and also were a complete farce.
At Asperg the doctor had innoculated the heart of an internee which caused death.
At Cologne there was a worker condemned to death who was perpetually in chains. At Sonnenburg those who were dying were put away by the absorption of greenish liquor. In Hamburg six Jews were forced to dig their own graves until exhausted, and they fell within the grave. We are speaking of Frenchmen, Dutchmen, Luxembourgers and Danes interned in German prisons. These methods were only applied on citizens of these countries in the Prison of Boers in Berlin, and at which place Jewish babies were massacred under the eyes of their mothers. The number of sterilizations of men is confirmed by German documents in the file of the prosecutor of Cologne. He had foreseen the victims could not be sent back and re-interned in their military territories. These files include documents which show the role played by children who were in prison. They had to work inside the camp, and the German functionary of the penitentiary service required instructions as to the decision to be taken with regard to Baby Fairwell, which was brought to the prison at the same time as that of the father and mother. That was the surveillance personnel, page 39, last paragraph. They were recruited amongst the NSKK and the SA because of their political views. They were above any suspicion and applicability to a harsh discipline. This is also from the public prosecutor at Cologne.
This is at Rheinbach. Those who were condemned and who were intended to be executed in Cologne were left for dead, as the result of blows which were inflicted upon them by the guards as a result of the above-mentioned discipline, and we can easily imagine the brutality of the men who were in charge of the internees. As a result of the executions, the German official text will furnish what comprises these executions in detail; those who were condemned were executed with brutality. Nearly all the condemned were surprised, say the German documents which we are analysing for you as charged; that they didn't like accusations and not charged for acts of patriotism. They were declared internees and they thought they deserved to be treated as soldiers. and nineteen years of age, and one woman. There were some French women who were political internees were selected from the Lubeck Jail to be executed in Hamburg, but the grounds of all accusations were almost a new identical. The files are incomplete, but we do believe that the prosecutor of Cologne, in any event, that the offenses committed were of militaristic nature, rendered to the assistance of the enemy, and all deals were systematically rejected, and they were rejected by some actions.
prison were still less cruel by far than those who had the misfortune of being sent to a concentration camp. These concentration camps the Tribunal are already familiar with them, my colleague from the United Nation having already submitted to you a long explanation of this problem, and, then the Tribunal will remember that they have had under their very eyes a map indicating the exact locations of every one of the camps which existed in Germany, and in the occupied countries. We shall not, therefore, return to the geographical distribution of the camps. the conditions under which Frenchmen and Nationals of the Western Occupied Countries were taken to those camps. At the time of the deportment of internees who were the victims of arbitrary arrest, such as those that I have already described to you this morning, were brought together in France in prisons, or in assembly camps.
The main assembly camp in France was at Compiegne. It is there that most of the deportees would be shipped, and from there away to Germany. There are still two more assembly camps, Pithiviers, specially a camp for Jews, and Drancy. The conditions under which the people were interned in those camps and were living were rather similar to those prevailing for internees in the German prisons. With your permission I shall not insist on naming them, and perhaps the Tribunal will consider as established the declaration made by Mr. Belchmall and Mr. Jacob in document No. 457, which I am now placing before you under No. 328.
THE PRESIDENT: What book is it in?
MR. DUBOST: 11th. That is in the 11th group of papers in the new file, in the new book.
THE PRESIDENT: It is the book that is described as "deportation"?
M. DUBOST: That is correct. It is entitled "Deportation" and it is the 11th document, the 11th paper in the book.
THE PRESIDENT: The index perhaps does not include that. 457 is it?
M. DUBOST: 457.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I got it.
M. DUBOST: To avoid lengthening and weighing down these debates with quotations of testimony, which after all are all similar, we shall limit ourselves for the present, if the Tribunal please, to the reading of passages from the testimony of Jacobs -- Madame Gilberte Jacob.
As to what was the attitude of the German Red Cross, this passage is to be found on page four at the very bottom of the French document, "We received a visit of several German and French personalities, such as Stuelpnagal, Du Paty de Clam, and Col. Bar en von Berg, vice president of the German Red Cross." This von Berg was very "protocolaire" and very spectacular. He constantly wore the small insignia of the Red Cross, which didn't prevent him being inhuman and a thief.
And on page 6, the penultimate paragraph, Colonel Von Berg was, as we have already said earlier, very spectacular.
graph:
"In spite of his title of Vice-president of the German Red Cross, he dared to wear theinsignia when he would select, by chance, the number of our comrades who were deported." Document F-174, pages 14 and 15, there will be some details on the fate of the internees. I don't think it is necessary to read them. assembly camps. The most characteristic of these camps is their best known, certainly the Breendonck Camp in Belgium, about which it is necessary to give a few precise details to the Tribunal because a great many Belgians were interned there and they died of privation, of hardship, torture of all sorts, and were executed either by shooting or by hanging. and we are now extracting, from a document that we have already deposited under No. F-231, which is also known under UK-76, a few precise details on the conditions prevailing in that camp. It is the fourth document which appears in your new document book. It is marked F-231, and is entitled, "Report on the Camp of Concentration of Breendonck."
THE PRESIDENT: What did you say the name of the camp was?
M. DUBOST: Breendonck, B-r-e-e-n-d-o-n-c-k. Our task is to present with more detail the case of this camp because of the considerable number of Belgians who were interned there and the rather special character that internements had in that camp from the month of August 1940.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you asking for an adjournment now or not?
M. DUBOST: Not at all, Mr. President. It must have been very badly translated. It must have been very poorly translated. I was, on the contrary, asking the Tribunal to grant me more time. The translation was liberal.
brought their internees there in the month of September. They were Jews. The Belgian Government could not know how many people were interned from September 1940 to the month of August 1944, which was the date of the evacuation of the camp. Nevertheless, it is thought that there came through the camp of Breendonck about 3,000 to 6,000 internees. About 250 died in there from privation; 450 were shot, and 12 were hanged. in Breendonck were transferred to the camps of Germany at various times. Most of these prisoners thus transferred did not return. There should, therefore, be added to those who died in Breendonck, all those who did not survive their captivity in Germany.
The camp sheltered various categories of prisoners: Jews -- and in this connection the regime was more severe than for the others -- Communists and Marxists who were interned in rather large numbers, but these who conducted the inquiries did not give precise detail; persons who belonged to the resistance in the various countries; individuals who were denounced to the Germans; hostages, among whom -
THE PRESIDENT: (Interposing): Where are you now?
M. DUBOST: The fourth paragraph of the second page, part b on page 2.
-- hostages, among them Mr. Bouchery, former Minister, and Mr. Van Kesbeek who was a liberal deputy, who were interned there for ten weeks in order to expiate the explosion of a grenade on the main square of Malines. Both of them died after their liberation as a result of their ill treatment which they endured in that camp. Belgian Government said of them that they were not mistreated, and they were, indeed, favored. That isin paragraph (e) ofpage 2.
The prisoners were obliged to work. Collective punishments of most repugnant sorts were inflicted on them for any reasons whatever. One of such punishments consisted of forcing the internees to crawl under the beds and to stand up by command, a movement which can be executed to the accompaniment of whipping. You will find that at the top of page 3 of the first paragraph.
conditions of the prisoners interned. They were isolated from other internees, and they were subjected to a very severe regime in their cells. They were forced to wear a hood each time they had to leave their cells or when they had to be placed in contact with other prisoners.
THE PRESIDENT: This is a long report, is it not?
M. DUBOST: That is why I am summarizing it rather than reading
THE PRESIDENT: Then you are summarizing it?
M. DUBOST: I am now proceeding with the summarizing of it, Mr. President.
I had reached in my summary the description of the manacles and chains on their feet.
They could not leave their cells One of these prisoners, Mr. Paquet, states that he spent eight and murders.
We are told that the work of the prisoners consisted around the fort.
This labor was done by hand, was very painful, Small lorries were utilized on rails.
The lorries were hurled thrown into the hollow surrounding the fort.