It is my opinion that all employees and wage-earners which includes, for instance, drivers, as far as they were not officials, teletypists, telephonists, draftsmen, and interpreters, are to be included into this exceptional group, no matter whether membership in the Gestapo was on the basis of a free labor contract, or whether the direction of the labor office permitted the selection of a different work place. activities of the personnel de*---* with technical informational work. They show clearly that they had nothing in the least to do with executive work; that they were not in a position to have any knowledge about the activity of the executive personnel, and that on the basis of their own activities, they did not have to realize that they belonged to an organization whose activity might be criminal. An exceptional treatment too is justified with reference to this circle of persons. on the basis of superior orders were collectively transferred into the secret state police. They are the 51 groups of the secret field police and the military counter-intelligence service including foreign censorship and telegraph censorship offices who were subordinated to the Gestapo by the Wehrmacht, the border protection department, and the Reichs Ministry of Finance.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Merkel, were you referring to 51 groups? Can you tell the Tribunal where those 51 groups are specified? In what document?
DR. MERKEL: The testimony of Krichbaum who was examined in the Commission. Even with reference to these groups there cannot be the slightest doubt that neither the fact of voluntary membership nor the knowledge of criminal aims as alleged by the Prosecution nor the fact of an inclusion applies to them. The individual person no matter what rank or office he held was powerless when he was collectively transferred on the basis of an order which emanated from the highest offices of the Wehrmacht and the State. Disobedience of this order would have been punished by death because of desertion or military disobedience.
There still remains the group of the executive officials. The executive officials originated basically from the personnel of the political departments of the police presidents' offices prior to 1933. Those officials who partly oven before 1914 and currently up to the year 1933 were combatting the various interior political enemies of the various governmental systems and the governments which came into power were almost without exception absorbed into the political police of the new regime.
Only these officials were excepted who had been particularly active as opponents of National Socialism. But even there were only dismissed in rare cases. For the most part they were transferred into the criminal police. The replacement of personnel for the secret state police was carried through in a manner where officials and candidates were transferred into the Gestapo from other police departments without previously being consulted except, of course, when they themselves made an application to that effect. In the same manner, officials of the protective police with a long and efficient record were transferred into the criminal or state police after nine years of service if they wanted to remain in the police service. They were unable to use any personal influence in being transferred to one department or another that the members of these groups of persons who were included as officials of the executive of the secret stride police could have nothing whatsoever to do with the crimes of which the Prosecution is accusing the Gestapo. The counter-intelligence police exorcised police activities as they belonged in the same way in every civilized state to the most noble tasks of the police of their affiliated institutions. It is clearly established through the testimony of Best and through Gestapo affidavits 39, 56, and 89 that the counter-intelligence police had a very considerable amount of personnel, and in view of the particular duty of secrecy in the interest of the defense of the country, a transfer into other departments of the Gestapo or other police branches was not permissions as a rule. The counter-intelligence police was mostly isolated within the Gestapo offices which excluded official contact with other departments. The cases handled by the counter-intelligence police were always submitted to the regular courts for decision. the preceding period and the same as carried out today by the officers of the new border police. The officers of the order police did not carry out third degree interrogations, nor did they submit applications for referrals to a concentration camp, nor did they, who in their majority had served for a long tins in the border police, participate in any persecution of the Jews, nor could they,due to the special character of their use, participate in any other crime with which the Gestapo is charged.
On the basis of the figures which I have previously submitted for the strength of the various groups of the Gestapo, I arrive for the period of its largest personnel at a maximum figure of approximately 75,000. The executive officials with a strength of approximately 15,000 men therefore constituted merely a portion of 20% of the total strength. If one deducts from that the 5 to 6 thousand men of the counter-intelligence and border police, there remain 9 to 10 thousand men of the executive which equals 12 or 13 per cent of the total strength. subordinate part of the State organism cannot be sentenced at all, for reason which are based both on natural law as well as the common state law of all peoples. But even if those legal objections were not existing, a sentencing could not take place since the characteristics for criminality as Chief Justice-Jackson outlined them on February 28, 1946, are not given in the case of the Gestapo. And even if all these arguments were not valid, I ask: Is it possible that an organization as such should be declared criminal simply because part of its members possibly can be held responsible for the committing of crimes --including even these members who certainly did not act in a criminal manner and had no knowledge of criminal deeds? the former members of the Gestapo presently in internment camps. I also would not wish to overlook to draw your attention to the numerous acts proven by those affidavits which aimed at the sabotaging of certain evil orders issued, by the head of the State. dwelling on the question of time limitations, I may be much briefer. the entire territory of the Reich and of a uniform direction of its will at least up to the appointment of Himmler as deputy chief of the Prussian Secret State Police, that is up to the spring of 1934. With a short interruption Ministerialrat Diels had been active in Prussia as substitute head of the Secret State Police under Goering.
It is impossible to construe connection between Diels and the illegal tendencies as they became apparent after the outbreak of the National Socialist Revolution. I may refrain and I have to, due to the pressure of time,from pointing to the real guilty ones in those excesses, compare Affidavit Number 41. 1934. In the following period of time, up to November 9 , 1933, the Gestapo did not play any role which would justify the charge of criminality. The arrest of 20,000 Jews on November 10, 1938, which the Gestapo was ordered to carry out was, as Witness Best testified, a master foreign to the Police.
Thus it is impossible to fix that date as the beginning of the criminal activity of the Gestapo. It must be stated that at least up to the beginning of the war the criminal character of the Gestapo cannot be proven.
Does that basis of judgment change for the duration of the war ? I have already stated that the activity of the Einsatzgroups and of the Sipo offices in the occupied territories cannot be charged to the Gestapo since both the leadership, the organization, the personnel, and the order of command of those offices would not permit a charging of responsibility to the Gestapo. siderable time limitations have to be made. I sketched in a few lines how unsurmountable would be the difficulties existing for a time limitation. my remarks concerning the indictment of the Gestapo. I didn't consider my task to excuse crimes and evil deeds and to whitewash those who disregarded the laws of humanity. But I desire to say these who are innocent, I desire to free the read for a sentence which will dethrone the demoniacal powers and which will reconstitute the moral order of the world. last decades and centuries, we read again an again that force conquered justice among the nations and that the spirit of revenge beclouded the thinking of humanity.
A place which was concluded remained merely written: it was not accepted into the hearts of the people. Facts were made ceremoniously only to be broken. Promises were given and not kept. We read in this book of revolution of peoples, of economical head, of unbreakable sorrow. The last page of this back, however, are written in blood, in the blood of millions of innocent people. They Speak of unimaginable cruelties, of limitless disregard of holy human laws, and of mass murders which caused suffering to the peoples of Europe.
In this book, Gentlemen of the High Tribunal, with your judgment, you are writing the last chapter, a chapter which is to be the end and the beginning cal powers against the moral order of the world, and the beginning because it is to lead into a new world of liberty and justice. in golden letters on the floor of the Palace of Peace in the Hague: Sol justitiae illistra nos. Do not, therefore, make your judgment merely with the cold logic of your learned mind, but also with the kind love of a seeing heart. This applies especially to the judgment against the organizations; for a condemning judgment must be unjust, since among the millions whom it affects there are also millions who are gukltless. They would all become victims of desperation; they would all be despised and damned, and would perhaps even deem those happy who are now resting, in their graves as victims of National Socialism.
The present world needs peace, nothing but peace. To extend the consequences of a judgment to a large , guiltless part of the German people would be working against world peace, which, in any event, rests on an unfirm basis, and would thereby repeat Hitler's idea to punish a people, the Jewish people, collectively and to exterminate them nutatis nutandis. indignation of the creature thus tortured - and the right to have the evil doers called to account. Hitler and his regime proved the words, "Hodie mihi, cras tibi. not have destroyed the City of Sodom if but one just man had lived there. Is not God's truth contained in these words-- that a group may not be punished even if but one member of the group deserves no punishment ? which will stand up before History and the Court of the World : Place your signatures under a verdict which will be praised as the beginning of a new Era of Justice and of Peace -- and which will be a bridge of gold leading to a better and a happier future.
(The Tribunal adjourned until Monday 26 August 1946 at 1000 hours.)
COL. POKROVSKY: Mr. President, would you allow me to inform the Tribunal that in conformity with the ruling of the Tribunal dated 12 August of this year, the ruling which took place in the morning session concerning the witness Schreiber, this witness is now in Nurnberg and is here and can be examined today or at any other time, in conformity with the decision of the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Pokrovsky, could he be examined now, at once?
COL. POKROVSKY: He could be examined at once.
THE PRESIDENT: I think that would be the most convenient, before we go on with the organizations' speeches.
COL. POKROVSKY: Very well, Mr. President, General Alexandrov will therefore examine him at once.
DR. LATERNSER (Counsel for the General Staff and OKW): Mr. President, I object to the examination of this witness for the following reasons: for the trial of the organizations it was decided by the Court that all witnesses had to be examined before the Commission. What is valid for the defense must, according to general legal principles, be valid for the Prosecution as well. For these reasons the examination of this witness is inadmissible.
THE PRESIDENT: I have before me the order of the Court of the 12th of August, 1946, which is in these terms:
"With reference to the objection of Dr. Laternser to the use of the statement made by Major General Walter Schreiber, the Tribunal is not inclined to admit any evidence so late as this, or to reopen questions which have been gone into fully before the Tribunal; but on the other hand, in view of the importance of the statement of Major General Schreiber and its particular relevance not only to the case of certain of the individual defendants but also to the case of the High Command, the Tribunal will allow General Schreiber to be heard as a witness if he is produced before the end of the hearing of the Take 2-1 case.
Otherwise no use can be made of this statement."
Dr. Laternser's present objection is, therefore, overruled.
WALTER SCHREIBER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Will you state your full name, please?
A. Walter Schreiber.
Q. Will you repeat this oath after me: the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV:
Q. Witness, will you kindly inform the Tribunal of the short details about yourself, about your career, about your education, and your activities?
A. I am 53 years, was born in Berlin, and am a professor of medicine. My medical studies were at the Universities of Berlin, Tuebingen, and Greizwals. I passed the state medical examination at Greizwald in 1920. I received a certificate and was made a doctor of medicine. of Berlin; in 1942 professor at the Military Medical Academy. I have been an active military doctor since 1921. I have been in various positions as a garrison doctor, and a divisional doctor since 1929, however only in scientific activity as a Hygienist and bacteriologist. Freiburg in Breisgau. After 1929 I was first in Freiburg, later hygienist at the Wehrkrieskommando in Berlin, and finally during the Second World War hygienist and bacterologist at the headquarters of the Supreme Command of the Army. I was afterwards section chief in the High Command of the Army for science and health in the Army Medical Inspectorate, and lastly head of Wehrgruppe C of the Military Medical Academy. In this capacity I was in charge of the scientific institute of the academy in Berlin.
Q. What was the last rank that you occupied in the German Army, and when was it?
A. I was Generalarzt -- that is major general -- of the medical service. My last position was that of the directing doctor for the military and civilian sector of Berlin, but only from the 20th of the 30th of April, 1945.
Q. Under what circumstances were you taken into captivity by the Soviet Army?
A. On the 30th of April, I was in a large hospital in the air-raid shelter at the Reichstag building in Berlin. Since most of the city of Berlin was already in the hands of the Russian troops, I had no more real directing work. As a result I opened a large hospital there and took care of several hundred wounded.
Q. You are now going to be shown your statement, dated the 10th of April 1946, which is addressed by you to the Soviet Government.
(A document was handed to the witness.) BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV:
Q. Do you remember that statement?
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute.
THE WITNESS: Yes; that is a report -
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. evidence orally and not by a document. Therefore, if you question him upon the subjects which are contained in it -
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Mr. President -
THE PRESIDENT (Interposing): Wait a moment.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV (Continuing): That is what I was going to do.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. General, the Tribunal would prefer that you get the evidence from the witness and do not use the document. Go on.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: That is what I want to do, Mr. President, but I just wish to have the witness tell us of a few circumstances in connection with this document.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: The substance will be obtained orally from the witness. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV:
Q. Do you confirm the facts set forth in that statement?
A. Yes, I confirm them.
Q. What was the reason for your making the statement to the Soviet Government?
A. In the Second World War, things occurred on the German side which were against the old laws of medical ethics. In the interests of the German people, the medical science of Germany, and the training of the younger generation of doctors in the future, I consider a thorough approach necessary.
The matters in question are the preparations of bacteriological warfare causing epidemics and experiments on human beings. April 1946 to the Soviet Government, and not before that date? bacteriological warfare might come up for discussion. When that did not occur, I decided to make this statement in April. opportunity of following the trial at Nuernberg? the club room. In addition, there was the information for prisoners of war printed in Soviet Russia which reported regularly on the trial. on the part of the German leadership in connection with bacteriological warfare? conference at which I as representative of the Army Medical Inspectorate took part. This conference took place in the rooms of the general Wehrmacht office in Berlin, in Bendler Strasse. The chief of staff of the general Wehrmacht Office, a colonel, was in charge of the meeting. I do not recall the name of this colonel. The colonel said by way of introduction that as a result of the war situation, with reference to the question of the utilization of bacteria as a weapon in warfare the High Command authorities now had to take a different point of view from that of the Army Medical Inspectorate, which had been held up to that time. Goering with the direction of carrying out all preparations for bacteriological warfare, and had given him the necessary powers.
A bacteriological warfare group was formed at this meeting. The members of this group were essentially the same gentlemen who had been taking part at the conference; that is, Ministerial Director Professor Schuhmann of the science section of the Army Armaments Office; Ministerial Director Stantin of the Army Armaments Office, Weapons Examination Section; Veterinary General Professor Richter, as representative of the Veterinary Inspectorate; and from the Army Medical Inspectorate, Oberstaatsarzt Professor Kliev, only as an observer, however.
26 Aug M LJG 3-1 Ahuna representative of the High Command, a staff officer of the Armament's Office and a representative of the Weapon's Office. There was a zoologist and a botanist but I do not know the names of these gentlemen. to be created at which bacterial cultures were to be produced on a large scale, and scientific experiments were to be carried on to examine the possibilities of employment of bacterias which could be used against animals and plants, which were also to be examined and made available as they were practicable. That, exactly, are the contents of the conference in July, 1943.
Q And what took place after that? What do you know about that? of the Army Medical inspectorate, Generalarzt Schmidtbruecken, who was my direct superior, that Reich Marshal Goering had told the Deputy Reich doctor Blome that he had appointed him to carry out the work, and had told him that the Institute in or near Posen was to be established as quickly as possible. At this Institute in Posen, Ministerialrat Schuhmann was active, and Ministerialrat Stantin, and a number of other doctor scientists whom I do not know. I myself reported a few days later to the Chief of Staff in the Army Medical Inspectorate, Professor Handloser. He was in Berlin at the time. carried out in this connection and in order to have the preparation of bacteriological warfare? I do not know about them. I know only that spraying attempts from planes with bacteria were experimented with, and that insects harmful to plants were experimented with, but I cannot give details. I did not experiment with it myself and do not know the details.
26 Aug M LJG 3-2 Ahuna consecrated to these questions took place under the chairmanship of a colonel belonging to the OKW. On the order of whom and in the name of whom did he do so? the German Wehrmacht Office, General Reinecke.
Q Who ordered you to take part in this meeting? me. the measures which were being taken in order to prepare bacteriological warfare? chief whom I informed of the contents of the conference was, in his capacity as army doctor, that is, as supreme medical officer of the Army, directly subordinate to the chief of the Army and had to report to him about it. Jodl in the preparation of these measures? Jodl. decision of the Supreme Command in the preparation of the bacteriological warfare? that secret conference, the defeat at Stalingrad which, in contrast to the fighting at Moscow in the winter of 1941 to 1942 was a severe blow for Germany. First, a re-evaluation of the situation, and consequently, no decision. It was no doubt considered whether new weapons could be used with which the issue of the war could still be turned to an advantage. not put into effect their plans for the waging of a bacteriological war?
26 Aug M LJG 3-3 Ahuna for the following reasons. In March, 1945, I was visited at my office at the Military Medical Academy by Professor Blome. He came from Posen and was quite excited. He asked me whether I could put he and his men up in the laboratories at Sachsenburg so that they could continue their work there; he had been forced out of his Institute at Posen by the advance of the Russian Army; he had to flee from the Institute; he was not even able to blow it up; he was quite worried that the arrangements for human experiments which were at this Institute and which were recognizable as such might be recognized by the Russians; he had tried to have the Institute destroyed by a Stuka bomb but that was not possible and now he asked me to see to it that he and his best cultures which he had saved be permitted to continue working at Sachsenburg.
I told Mr. Blome that Sachsenburg was no longer under my command and for that reason I could not give him that approval, and referred him to the Chief of the Medical Army System, General Handloser. The next day General Handloser called me up and said that Blome had come to him and had an order from the Commander of the replacement army, Himmler, and that on the basis of this order he was unfortunately compelled to give Blome a place to work in the Sachsenburg. I took note of this but I had nothing more to do with it. Thus Mr. Blome had been thrown out of the Posen Institute. The work of such an Institute must be very difficult. must have a laboratory with appropriate precautionary measures. The personnel must be trained and must have practiced, for a German even, an export bacteriologist has no experience with plague cultures. That takes time, and so the Posen affair had to be continued, then only a considerable time later. Now it had suffered a severe blow; now it was to begin work at Sachsenburg. In his visit to me, Mr. Blome told me that he could continue his work at another laboratory in Thuringia, but that this was not yet completed.
that it would take a few days,on even a few weeks to finish it, and that he had to have shelter until then. In addition, if the spreading of the plague was to be used when the military operations were so near the borders of Germany, when the units of the Red Army were already on German soil, of course, special protection for the troops and the civilian population had to be considered. A serum had to be produced. This again took time; and as a result of all these delays the affair was never put into effect.
Q. Witness, will you kindly tell us now what you know about the illegal experiments carried out on human beings by German doctors ? I would ask you to testify very shortly as to these questions because they have been sufficiently gone into before in the trial.
A. Officially I learned of a few things. In 1943, I believe it was in October, at the Military Medical Academy, we had a scientific meeting of qualified doctors, so-called advistory doctors, and with the staff of the bacteriologists which included about 30 gentlemen; and Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. Dring made a speech on the examination of typhus vaccine. The speech indicated that this Dr. Ding had, in the Buchenwald Concentration Camp, inoculated prisoners with various vaccines against typhus. After sometime, I don't know how long it was, he had artificially infected them with typhus by infected lice which were infected with typhus, and from that he determined whether these people contracted typhus or not, he drew conclusions on the value of the vaccine. Since vaccines of various qualities were examined, there were cases of death.
Q. Now, what were the scientific value of the experiments carried out by this Dr. Ding ?
A. In my opinion they had no scientific value at all. In the course of the war, we had empirically made many gains in this field, collected a great deal of experience. We knew our vaccines very well, and there was no need of such examinations. A number of the vaccines which Ding examined were not used at all in the Wehrmacht, they'd be rejected.
Q. Please continue, please continue.
A. A second affair of which I received official notice was the following: The head of the hospital in Hohenlychen, SS-Gruppenfuehrer Professor Gebhardt a talented surgeon, had carried out head operations on Russian prisoners of war and had killed the prisoners at certain intervals in order to observe the pathological changes, the progress of the bone changes on the basis of trepidation, the results of the operations, and so forth. In the third place here in Nurnberg, I participated in a scientific meeting carried out by the High Command of the Luftwaffe.
Q. When did this take place ?
A. The meeting was in 1943, I cannot say exactly when it was. I believe in the Fall of '43.-- it may have been in the Summer. At this meeting which was held in the hotel by the railroad station, two doctors, Dr. Cramer and Professor Hoelzldemner, director of the physiological institute at the University of Kiel, reported on experiments which they had carried out on behalf of the High Command of the Luftwaffe in Dachau on the inmates of the concentration c*--* The purpose of the experiments was to create the basis for the production of a new productive uniform for flyers. In the Channel, numerous German planes had been shot down and had, in a short time, found their death in the cold water before the rescue plan could reach them. Now, a suit was to be made which would in some way have an insulating effect, protect the body against cold. For this purpose the persons, during the experiments, had to be put in water of varying temperatures -- I don't know exactly what all the temperature were; and it was established how the curve of the fall of body temperature was, and where the border is between life and death, at what temperature, and the subjects of the experiments had on various suits. The ordinary ones which were used at that time and other ones. I recall one special suit which developed a foam between the suit and the skin, that is, a layer of air which has a strong insulating effect, and death could be postponed for a considerable time by this suit. Of course, in these experiments which were undertaken under narcosis, a number of subjects lost their lives.
Q. Please tell us what connection the Defendant Goering had to the experiments carried out at Dachau ?
A. Dr. Kramer said at the beginning of his speech that defendant Goering had ordered these experiments, and that the Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler had kindly made available the subjects for the experiments.
Q. But you yourself do admit the possibility that similar experiments could be carried out without the knowledge of the defendant Goering.
A. I cannot imagine that.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Mr. President, I have no further questions to put to this witness. BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q. Witness, you were in a Russian Prisoner-of-War Camp ?
A. Yes.
Q. Where ?
A. Near Moscow.
Q. Did you hold any office in this camp ?
A. No. I held no office in the prisoner-of-war camp.
Q. How did it come about that you made your statement on the 10th of April did you yourself take the initiative or were you asked to do so ?
A. I myself took the initiative when here in Nurnberg I heard the report of Kramer and Hoelzloehner. I was deeply shocked about the perversion on the part of the German doctors. For that reason, I spoke to Professor Handloser who shared my opinion, and when more and more such things were reported in the papers, I considered it my duty -- I refer to what I said before-- in the interest of the future of the medical profession, I considered it my duty to clear these things up once and for all.
Q. What did you learn about such things ?
A. What I said before.
Q. No, I mean what you learned in the prisoner-of-war camp .
A. From the papers which we received.
Q. What did you learn from the papers ?
A. I learned -
Q. One, moment, Witness. Do you have a piece of paper before you ?
A. Yes.
Q. What does it say ?
A. "You can speak faster."
Q. One question : Your testimony in answer to the questions for the Russian Prosecutor today,was it prepared ?
A. I was examined, and what I said is in this statement.
Q. I ask you, Witness, whether before the examination today, you were orientated by the Russian Examiner on what you were to testify to ? Was your testimony previously determined ?
A. No, but that I would speak about bacteriological warfare and experiments on human beings, that I knew.
Q. Now, to the statement; you have the statement before you ?
A. Yes, here it is.
Q. At the end of that statement there is a note. Would you please look at it ?
A. Yes.
Q. Was this note put on this document in your presence ?
A. No, I received this document here in this room a little while ago.
Q. And something else, was your signature on the original certified ? Or did you send off the original before this note at the end was put on which is at the end row ?