As to the beginning of the resistance mocement and the contact with Kluege, that has been proved by the affidavit of Schmidt.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Dix, I think you must make up your mind whether you want to make an application or not. If you want to make an application, you must make it in writing. The Tribunal is not inclined to entertain possible precautionary applications which are not in writing.
DR. DIX: I intend to leave it to the decision of the Tribunal. I am merely making a suggestion because it is my personal view, having had Gisevius' testimony -
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has made a rule that applications must be in writing. That rule has been applied to every other cousel appearing on behalf of the Defendants. The Tribunal thinks that rule should be adhered to by you, too. Therefore, if you wish to make an application, you should make it in writing.
DR. DIX: Very well, then I should like very much to make my application in writing. Does the Tribunal wish that I should use up another two minutes by giving the reasons for the aim of my application?
THE PRESIDENT: I do not see any reason for departing from the rule.
DR. DIX: Very well. In that case I shall make my application in writing.
THE PRESIDENT: I have two announcements to make. In the first place, with reference to the application of Dr. Seidl, who does not appear to be present, the Tribunal has had a report dated the 17th of August, 1946, on the condition of the Defendant Hess from Captain G. M. Gilbert, the prison psychologist. This report will be communicated to the Defendant Hess's counsel, to the Prosecution and to the Press. The Tribunal will not call for any further report upon the Defendant Hess at the present time.
Next, with reference to the application by Dr. Stahmer dated the 14th of August, 1946, the Tribunal will treat this application as an exceptional case, and they will allow the Defendant Goering to be recalled to the witness box to deal with the evidence upon experiments which was given after the Defendant Goering gave his evidence, and upon no other subject.
Tribunal will hear the defendant Goering in the witness box now.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q You understand, defendant, of course, that you are still under oath?
A Yes, of course, Mr. President. BY DR. STAHMER:
Q Were you the President of the Reich Research Council?
Q When and by whomwas the Reich Research Council created? 1943 by me. physics, technology, medicine and philosophy should be summarized and that the various institutes of the state, the Emperor Wilhelm Institute, the institutes of the universities, the economic research departments, which were all carrying out research work concurrently should be drawn together in this Reich Research Council Commissions were formed according to the subject they were dealing with. They were centralized and it was their task that research should not be carried on on parall lines but that research should be carried out jointly. chemistry, that that was to be centralized and carried out correctly. deputy. Right in the foreground, of course, in the case of all this reasearch work was its application to the necessities of war and for that purpose special men were appointed also. This Reich Research Council carried out not hundreds but thousands of various tasks of research and since I personally am, of course, not an expert, I wasmerely the chairman of the whole institution in order to lend it my authority an also in order to furnish the necessary funds as one of my foremost tasks in that connection. The tasks I had were headed by Reichsmarshal of the German Reich and President of the Reich Research Council. rate of the Airforce have?
forces, to take care of the hygiene and health of the armed forces, to take care of all the work which fitted into that sphere. Council? Council in order to explain the results of the hygiene and medical research work or respectively communicate to them their wishes regarding the orders which were to be dealt with, the tasks which were to be carried out by the Reich Research Council. the Airforce tasks at any time for the carrying out of medical experiments on detainees in concentration camps, Dachau or any other camps? single letter which could possibly be signed by me and that not a single man could possibly appear to state that I myself have at any time, in any shape of form, given a single task or a single order or even a hint in that respect.
Q Did you have knowledge of the fact that Dr. Rascher or a chief medical officer of the Airforce, Dr. Feldt, had carried out medical experiments on detainees in the concentration camp of Dachau? ments, Dr. Rascher was a medical officer of the Airforce Reserve and apparently later on, as appears from the correspondence, he did not succeed with his experiments. He resigned from the Airforce and became a medical officer in the SS. I myself have never seen the man. I have never known or met the man, just as the second name which you have mentioned is strange to me and I do not even know whether he was an active, serving medical officer or a medical officer in the Reserve. to any department that sub-pressure chambers should be used on detainees in concentration camps?
A I have already told you that I have not done so. It is natural that if anybody bad come to me, shall we say from the Medical Inspectorate or from the Reich Research Council, and had told me that it would be serving a purpose to carry out research shall we say regarding the subject of cancer research or typhoid research but of course I would have said that that is a very praiseworthy enterprise.
But then I cannot, possibly connect that fact with the idea that a human being should be used in an incorrect manner in connection with it and if someone tells me that at present the experiments are going on with low pressure chambers that I cannot possibly understand by that or imagine through it that detainees have been used or are being used in that connection, all the more so considering that I knew that every aviator was being experimented with in the low pressure chamber in order to find out his flying abilities before he could pass his examination. receive the order from you to carry out experiments for making sea water drinkabl
A I have never heard of the document. It would have interested me extraordinarily because repeatedly we aviators, amongst ourselves, have discussed this point, not regarding making sea water drinkable but with reference to the question of how a flyer who would be adrift in the sea in a lifeboat could obtain drinkable water at all and it was always said amongst flyersat the time that there was only one possibility; that they should have fishing tackle aboard their lifeboats so that they could catch fish and they were given the primitive instruction to squeez out the fish since that was the only drinkable water obtainable under such circumstances. That is why that point is particularly clear in my memory. a conference in the Air Ministry. Had you ordered that conference or were you informed about it afterward?
A No. Currently and daily conferences of all types and of all departments wire taking place in the Air ministry and they could not possibly communicate to me daily or report it to me at Headquarters. supposed to have taken place at Dachau. Were they ordered by you or did you gain knowledge of them? working rooms at their disposal at Dachau at certain times. Had you learned of these facts?
Q Do you know the medical officer of the Airforce Reserve, Dr. Deck? experiments should be carried out which are supposed to have beencarried out by a certain Professor Hausteiner, a medical officer of the Airforce Reserve at Dachau, for which he is supposed to have used detainees? carried out these low freezing experiments. Hausteiner is just as unknown to me as are the other names. There w re thousands of medical officers in the Reserve of the Airforce.
Q Did you ever meet Dr. Haagen, Professor at the University of Strassburg, who was the chief staff medical officer or was supposed to have been the chief medical staff officer of the Airforce and you had given himordersat any time to make experiments in order to defeat typhoid?
AAs I have gathered from the documents also, Dr. Haagen was a medical officer in the Airforce Reserve and advisory hygeine expert not of the Airforce generally but of the Air Fleet, that is a unit of the Airforce. I do not know him. I have never at any time given him an order and he obviously could be heard as to that at any time. since it would have astonished me somewhat, since I myself had been inoculated against typhoid three times and I certainly did not believe that further research in that sphere was taking place. to Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, dated May 19, 1944, states that Professor Haagen had been ordered by the Reichsmarshal, the President of the Reich Research Council, to carry out such experiments?
A This can he explained as follows: firstly, as I said earlier, the letter heading for all such orders which in any way were connected with the Reich Research was worded, the Reich liar shall of the German Reich, signature, the president of the Reich Research Council. That was the custom in Germany: that first of all the personal title was quoted and not the department, the office. It was, for instance, the Reich Minister of Finance, and not the Reich Ministry of Finance. Secondly, Witness Sievers himself has testified here with reference to a rather large figure that ten thousand orders were issued under my name without that I myself could have known of these orders. That, of course, would have been quite impossible Certainly it was known in the whole of Germany that hardly over has a name been used as much as mine. If anyone were to achieve anything at all, he quite happily and gaily said that the Reichsmarschall wished it, or he would like to see this or that done or this or that ordered. which prevented the misuse of my name with reference towards such matters. medical experiments on human beings?
THE PRESIDENT: I think the defendant has already told us what his basic attitude was.
DR. STAHMER: Very well, Mr. President. Quite. Then with reference to this subject I shall have no further questions. I shallmerely have to refer myself to further questions as soon as the witness Sievers has appeared here -- I beg your pardon, the witness Holder, from whom a statement has been submitted to the Tribunal, which has not been introduced in evidence, so that I cannot at this moment define my attitude with reference to it.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal doesn't know what you are talking about because the Tribunal has not yet allowed the witness Helder to be called; but youmust conclude your examination of the defendant now.
DR. STAHMER: In that case then I believe that I have been misunderstood, Mr.President. It is the witness Schreiber we are concerned with. From Witness Schreiber a statement has been announced in this court room; and the Tribunal had announced its decision with reference to it, namely, that Schreiber should appear as a witness here; and I shall have to reserve myself the right, therefore -
THE PRESIDENT: The interpretation came to us as Helder.
DR. STAHMER: Quite.
THE PRESIDENT: It came to us as bolder with reference to Schreiber.
DR. STAHMER: No, no, Schreiber is the name; Professor Schreiber, I meant. The Russian, the Russian statement.
THE PRESIDENT: If this Schreiber is brought here in accordance with the Tribunal's order, then no doubt you will have the opportunity of cross examining. Dr. Stahmer, if you want to put any questions to the defendant Goering, you must put them now because the Tribunal doesn't propose to have the defendant recalled again, should the witness Dr. Schreiber be produced. Therefore, if you have any questions to put to the defendant on the subject which Dr. Schreiber might be called to deal with, you must out them now.
Q. Did you ever receive an order from Hitler or a special authority in order to carry out the preparatory work for bacteriological warfare?
A. Never at any time did 1 receive such an authority or such an order as it is mentioned in the letter of the General Medical Officer Schreiber addressed to the Soviet Government.
Q. Did you have knowledge of the fact that your medical officers were working on such preparatory work?
A. No, and this letter isn't mentioning the word medical officers. It is merely talking about the -
THE PRESIDENT: One minute. Will you just wait one minute. Go on, Dr. Stahmer. You will confine yourself to the matters with which you have dealt in your written application with reference to Dr. Schreiber.
Q. Did you have knowledge of the fact that the working community for bacteriological warfare existed?
A. That such a working community existed is a fact I had no knowledge of. What I did know, however, was that as a matter of course defensive measures were being worked on against bacteriological warfare. It must not be forgotten that to a certain extent such a type of warfare had been commenced against us by dropping insects, damaging the potatoes with potato beetles; and measures had been prepared in order to be ready for such warfare on one part; and then possibly, though I do not know this for certain, preparations may have been made for the event that the opponents might carry out such bacteriological warfare, so that we would have an answer ready.
Q. Do you know Professor Blommen?
A. No.
Q. Then in that case you didn't give him the order to prepare such measures?
A. No, that isn't possible.
DR. STAHMER: I have no further questions, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Do the Prosecution desire to ask any questions? BY SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE:
Q. Defendant I first want to know how much of the witness Sievers' letter you agree with or disagree with. Do you agree that the directions for carrying out the spotten fever experiments were in the hands of the Director of the Hygienic Institute of the Reich University of Strassbourg, Professor Dr. Haagen, major in the Medical Corps, and consulting hygienist to an air fleet? Is Sievers right in saying that?
A. That I have no means of checking. It is possible.
Q. I see. Now, are you disputing that Dr. Haagen was -- I quote -
"commissioned with this task by the Reichsmarschall, the President of the Reich Research Council," or do you again say that you have no means of checking that?
A. That I have said quite clearly. I know nothing whatever about it; and it is interesting, if you are speaking of the Reichsmarschall and the President of the Reich Research Council, that that means that the heading was that under which all such research orders were coming nut.
Q. To put it quite bluntly, your defense to this is the rubber-stamp defense that you signature on the orders was merely a rubber-stamp for the equivalent signature as President of the Reich Research Council? Is that what you want the Tribunal to understand?
A. No. That I am not saying by any means. If my signature has been given, then it had its full value; but it has not been given; it has not been explained. But as I hove told you earlier, this was the heading, the letter heading of the orders as they were signed. These orders were signed by some sub-department which was dealing with these matters. When and where I have signed a letter, I alone assume the responsibility for it. It would be only too easy for the prosecution to put such a letter before me or to ask Mr. Haagen about it.
Q. Then you say that if instructions went out from the Reich Research Council you knew nothing about them. That is your answer as I understand it.
A. As far as details are concerned, of course I did not know because, firstly, that was impossible merely from the point of view of time. As far as I am concerned, my day too only had 24 hours. my task was to give general instructions to those men working in research, in order to centralize the research work in every sphere, and secondly, to provide the very large funds required.
Q. But you see, defendant, the letter goes on to say, "In accordance with his Instructions" -- which were said to come from the Reichsmarshal, the President of the Research Council -- "In accordance with his instructions, Dr. Haagen has to report about his work to the Chief of the Luftwaffe Medical Services."
A. That is possible; it is possible that he had that order. However, he did not report to me, and the Chief of the Medical Inspectorate did not report to me either. Chief of the Hygiene Inspectorate appear here as a witness, in order to make it abundantly clear.
Q. So that in both these capacities -- in these two of your capacities -the Reich Research Council and the Medical Department of the Luftwaffe were both acting without any knowledge of yours ? In these experiments which were concerned with the condition of, among others, the service for which you were responsible, you say both of these bodies were acting without your knowledge. That is what you say. Is that right; are you sure it is right ?
A. That is absolutely right, May I give you a brief season why it must be right, if you will permit me ?
Q. Just a moment. I would like you to consider one or two points before you commit yourself too deeply to that. special thanks to the SS for their cooperation in the altitude experiments ?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: My Lord, that is document 343-PS, and it isthe letter that begins, "Dear Wolff". Wolff was one of Himmler's personal staff. If my recollection is correct, he was the liaison between Himmler and Hitler, certainly, at one time.
Q. (Continuing) and your second man, defendant, Fieldmarshal Milch, is saying to "Dear Wolff", "I convey the special thanks from the Supreme Commander of the Air Corps to the SS for their extensive cooperation." he signed it on behalf of your Medical Department -- was merely expressing a chanson de malaise and was not conveying your thanks to Himmler ?
A. I not only say that, but it has been testified to quite clearly by Fieldmarshal Milch when he was a witness here. If you would care to look at the record, you will find that he is expressly admitting that I had no knowledge of these details.
Apart from that, Mr. Prosecutor, the situation is this. A certain method of correspondence was employed by us, which is perhaps not quite fitting here, but that is the way we did it. If an official of a ministry is addressing a letter of thanks to someone which is not of a personal nature, then he always has to write on behalf of the chief, in the name of the chief, and I think that must be the same form everywhere.
Q. I just remind you; what the witness Milch said was that these letters were put in front of him by your Medical Department. These experiments mainly and greatly concerned the Luftwaffe. Are you saying that the thanks of the Luftwaffe and of the Supreme Commander, yourself, were given without any reference to you at all ?
A. Fieldmarshall Milch did not say that the letters were put before me. He says they were put before him.
Q. That is what I said; I said "before him". I didn't suggest they were put before you at all.
A. I t probably came through incorrectly, sir. Then he goes on to say that he thanks him politely, because the Inspectorate had told him that there were no other interests in the matter since the high altitude experiments had already been voluntarily carried out by our young medical officers, and he spoke about that at length.
Q. But you know, it didn't stop with your young medical officers. Your Service provided the equipment for Dachau for these experiments.
A. It isn't coming through.
Q. I will repeat that. It did not stop there. Your Service was providing the equipment for these experiments for Dachau.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: My Lord, the reference to that is GB-582, document 2428-PS, which is an affidavit by the detainee Anton Pacholegg, who was at Dachau. He says that the Luftwaffe delivered, here at the concentration camp at Dachau, a cabinet constructed of wood and metal, measuring one meter square and two meters high, and so on. He describes the equipment.
Q. (Continuing) Are you saying that the supplying of equipment for these experiments at Dachau was done without any reference to you on these particular Air Force experiments ?
A. First, it was not the Air Force which was carrying out the experiments at Dachau, it was the medical officer of the Reserve Air Force, Dr. Rascher. Whether Dr . Rascher obtained the order to do so from the Hygiene Medical Inspectorate, or in what manner, I do not know. a so-called high altitude closet. That is something I have mentioned before, which had to be entered normally by everyone in order to find out the reaction of his body to altitude and pressure conditions.
It wasn't difficult for Rascher, therefore, to address himself to the Inspectorate and, in technical terms, to apply for such a closet or such a chamber without giving exact details: what types of experiments, he wanted to use it for, and whether that entialed any danger for those people who were to be subjected to these experiments. said -- for instance, at the end of Justice Jackson's final speech he emphasized that I had had my fat fingers in every pie. I want to say that if I held as many offices as I am being accused of having held, then you will understand that I could not possibley have concerned myself with every high altitude pressure chamber which was used for experiments.
Q. But did you not concern your self with the experiments to test the flight clothing for the Luftwaffe when the concentration camp detainees were dressed in various types of flight suits with jackets ? I mean, defendant, you have been a practical air man yourself, with a very gallant record of service in the air in the last war. What I am suggesting to you is that these matters were matters that were not only within your administrative interest in your positions, but they were within your personal interest as an ex-air officer. That is why I am suggesting to you that you would have, and did have, an interest in these experiments.
Putting back your memory, are you sure that you don't remember about the experiments on these concentration camp detainees for testing air clothing
A. Sir David, I am not only absolutely sure that I don't remember, but I am absolutely sure that it was not so. I mean, I wish to emphasize that I am not saying I don't remember; I am saying with absolute certainty that this was not the situation.
Secondly, you are absolutely right. Naturally, I would have taken the greatest interest in the welfare of my aviators and also, naturally, their clothing. We, the fliers, amongst ourselves, repeatedly discussed what the best type of flying combination would be. Had I been told that combinations which were heatable were being used, then I particularly, on the strength of my own experience, would have said that I didn't want them, because at the end of the last war I myself had worn such a heatable suit and the outcome was that I burnt myself all over.
Q. Well, now, take another experiment. It must have been the same in your Air Force as in ours, that one of the greatest difficulties, or one of the things that one wanted to deal with, was those who came down, in our parlance, who came down into the sea; that is, what could be done and for what time they would survive.
Do you say that you did not know about the cold test ? According to this affidavit to which I have referred, Dr. Rascher conducted this cold test -
That was for the Luftwaffe also. That was to see the resistance of the human body to emersion in water. Do you say that you knew nothing about that experiment also ?
A. I knew neither Dr. Rascher nor any of the experiments he was carrying out. The symptoms, experienced by people who had fallen into the water, cau such/ sed by cold were known.
Against freezing, same excellent powder, or some stu had been invented. truct life belts in such a way that they would facilitate breathing in spite of the sea waves, and so on and so forth. In just the same manner, precautionary measures as to clothing and the rescuing methods of our opponents were experimented with and observed by us in that respect. I remember that I once held a pamphlet of that type in my hand, but that is all. and the most suitable steps were always taken. They moved about, they were given alsohol, and so on, in order to warm them up again.
Q. Well now -
A. (Interposing) I beg your pardon, Mr. Prosecutor, but there is something I attach great value to, and that is this. The experiments with women, and all that sort of thing, as they have been mentioned here, are so utterly in contradiction to my view regarding women that I would have resented such experiments most deeply, not only afterwards but at the time.
of knowledge of these experiments at that time. Did you or did you not know that the Sanitaetswesen of the Luftwaffe were, in May 1944, working on experiments to render seawater drinkable in which concentration camp inmates were used?
A No, that I did not know. But, Mr. Prosecutor, I would like to say this in reference to that experiment and how these things developed. It wasn't even necessary for the medical inspectorate to know that. An order was given, and even assuming that I had given it, it didn't necessarily allow for the deduction that experiments were carried out on human beings. The medical officer had some sort of connection to Himmler and the research department, but also, he could be connected with the Waffen SS through Himmler. At the same time, there were connections in which the Luftwaffe would not have been included In any event, every system which was being used was being represented up above.
Q The first letter that I put to you was dated 26 May 1942. You say that the facts which Field Marshal Milch were concerned with, I want to get it exactly as possible, were merely formal methods of conveying the facts of that date? Do you remember that on 28 July 1942 Hitler issued a Fuehrer's Decree, countersigned by the defendant Keitel and by the Witness Lammers, establishing a Coordination Staff for the Armed Forces to deal with health. That is on July 28, 1942. It was to take care of the coming tasks in the field of health for the Armed Forces, the Waffen SS,and subordinate organizations. And, if I may remind you, so that you may fit it in your memory, "for the purpose of a constructive treatment of these offices, a sanitary officer of the Navy and a sanitary officer of the Airforce will be assigned to work under him." That is the sanitary officer of the Army. The latter, that is, the medical officer of the Airforce, in a capacity as a chief of staff, that is the time when Field Marshal Milch was writing to Wolff about these experiments.
Two months later there was a Fuehrer's Decree and one of your officers was to be Chief of Staff of this Coordination Staff. Are you telling the Tribunal that you did not know about the Fuehrer's Decree and that your officer was so appointed?
A Before I tell the Tribunal my answer, may I have a look at the decree?
Q Would you like . ..?
Q Yes, I probably will be able to understand that much. Yes, that's just what I wanted to find out. This decree has nothing whatsoever to do with experiments. It begins with the following, and I shall translate it freely, since I don't know English too well.
"The personnel and material with reference to the Health Inspectorate was a temporary condition and a planned condition. It is for that reason that I decree herewith that the Chief of the Sanitary Department...." and here I don't know which translation applies. "In order to find the solution to the shortage of medical officers, it is necessary for joint research work to be carried out."
That topic is a matter of course. The Army was carrying the bulk of the medical officers and was also getting the greatest number of requirements so that it was the Sanitary Inspector who was put at the head of the department. Since the Air Force was carrying the second largest amount of medical officers, the Chief of Staff was chosen from them. is that on July 28 , 1942, there was this additional interest in medical experiments and research which made Hitler issue this coordinating staff. Now, I want you just to remember how that interest in medical matters was shown in your service. A month later, on 31st August 1942, your second man Milch was writing to Himmler. My Lord, this is document number 343-PS, and if you like, the State Exhibit No.463.
"Dear Mr. Himmler: I thaink you very much for your letter of 25 August. I have read with great interest the reports of Dr. Rascher and Dr. Romberg, I am Informed about the current experiments. I shall ask the two gentlemen to give a lecture combined with the showing of motion pictures to my men in the near future." question, and that that letter was put in front of him by the head of your medical department for his signature. Assume that if you like. There is no reason to suppose that the head of your medical department was tellinglies in the letter he put before Milch; no reason to assume that that letter is untrue and if, in your service, lectures were given on these experiments with motion pictures, are you still telling the Tribunal that you, as the head of the service, knew nothing about the experiments for your service that were going on
A I an only telling the truth to the Tribunal and that is: It is not by any means necessary for the sanitary inspector to submit this letter to Milch because....Was this a direct letter to Himmler or was this Milch's testimony?
Q I am only quoting Milch's evidence. I was asking you to assume for the moment that Milch's evidence was true. It was suggested to Milch that his evidence wasn't true. I am asking you to assume that Milch is telling the truth for the purpose of my question. That is why I put it that way. Now, continue your answer.
A I am afraid I didn't quite understand you clearly. Now, did you read a letter from Field Marshal Milch to me or did you put the testimony which Milch put here? Himmler. And I informed you, in case you didn't remember, that Field Marshal Milch, that that letter was put in front of him by your medical department and that he signed it blindly. That was Milch's evidence. I asked you to assume that Milch was telling the truth. I don't mean that for the moment. I am ask you, as head of your service, if these experiments were the subject of lectures and motion pictures shown to your own men under your command, are you telling the Tribunal that you knew nothing about then? implicitly at the beginning. I am not saying that Field Marshal Milch was saying an untruth.
After all, he himself said (and I remember his testimony given here on the witness stand and he cleared up this matter absolutely) that he did not render a report to no about the details of those experiments. That decree had nothing to do with experiments but, as I said earlier, the connection of the three armed forces with reference to the sanitary system is entirely a matter of organization.
Q Witness, I just passed the decree, you know. I want your answer. Do you say that you did not know that lectures and motion pictures were show to the men under your command dealing with these experiments? I just want your answer quite clearly -- yes or no. Did you or did you not know?
A No, I knew nothing about it. I beg you once more to take into consideration that the Air Ministry was a Ministry of administration, whereas in the office I dealt with tactical matters. I would have stopped these experiments -- I would have done so, even if the Russian Prosecution have twisted the facts, I still stick to my statement. In 1934 I strictly forbade experiments to be carried out on animals, so that I certainly would have strongly forbidden experiments to be carried out on human beings.
Q It is not for me to comment. Plenty of people have standards with animals which they do not apply to follow men. But, that is a matter of comment and I do not wish to pursue it. Dr. Rascher was transferred from the Airforce to the SS. Before he was transferred Himmler wrote to Milch on that subject and described the experiments on the behavior of human organisms at great heights in prolonged cooling and similar behavior. I quoted Himmler's letter.
"These researches which deal with the behavior of the human organism at great heights, as well as with manifestations caused by prolonged cooling of the human body in cold water, and similar problems which are of vital importance to the air force in particular."
Then he says, "Unfortunately you had no time recently when Dr. Rascher wanted to report on the experiments at theMinistry for Air Aviation.
I had put great hopes in that report because I believe that the difficulties based merely on religions objections which opposed Dr. Rascher's experiments for which I have assumed responsibility could be eliminated. The difficulties are still the same now as before. In these Christian medical circles the standpoint is being taken that it goes without saying that a young German aviator should be allowed to risk his life, but that the life of a criminal who is not drafted into military service is too sacred for this purpose and one should not burden oneself with this guilt." airforce and also to the Waffen SS, "however, in this connection, I suggest that with the liaison between you and Wolff", that is, Milch and Wolff, "a non-Christian physician should be charged who would, at the same time, be informed of the results. heard, that Christian medical circles were protesting against these experiments?
Q Himmler, I am sorry. Although Himmler know, you say you did not know that Christian medical circles were protesting apparently, according to this letter, publicly and insistently, protesting against these experiments? Did you not know that?
A No, and they didn't protest publicly. But I am awfully grateful to you for having put this letter which, among the many documents which have been submitted, has not been clearly put. The emphasis is unique, but I am happy that Christian medical officers that are mentioned -by that they mean the Inspectorate of my Luftwaffe. They were my medical offices because they alone could raise protests. For this reason -- that one of the reasons why Rascher had to leave the Airforce. That just emphasizes everything that I said.
Q I want you -- again, I want you to apply your mind tothis. You and Himmler were still on good terms in 1942, weren't you?
A Until the very end. Himmler always adopted a very polite attitude toward me. After all, he had to.