Q That he was exceptional ?
A That, considering Reichenau's entire attitude and his character, I assume to be the case. General von Mannstein, General Kleist, General von Schobert, General Stuelpnagel would never on their part have issued such an order. May I Go on ? Particularly General von Brachitsch has given the strictest orders that the conduct of the war in the East was to be carried out in the strictest soldierly manner and in accordance to the rules and regulations. of General Fieldmarshal von Mannstein which was strikingly a similar to the ""Runstedt" order. In some passages----
A The "Reichenau order, you mean.
THE PRESIDENT: You said the "Runstedt" order.
MR. CALVACORESSI: I beg your pardon, my Lord. BY MR. CALVACORESSI. in Army Group South? the---many years ago, we have recovered orders of this kind from two. I put it to you that any soldier of the 6th Army or 11th Army who received this order would be justified in assuming that his commanders in-chief were encouraging or at least tolerating excesses, and now, just to show you that these matters are not confined to one army group or even to one front, I want you to look at this signal, document No. 4067-PS, and it will be US 930.
My Lord, it is convenient at this point to put this in: I am not suggesting that the witness is himself personally concerned with it. This is a signal that was made to the panzer Army Africa in June 1942, and I will read it in full as it is very short:
"For Panzer Army Africa via German General with the Supreme Command of the Italian Armed Forces in Rome.--OKH/Quartermaster General for information--Supreme Command of the Air Force/Quartermaster General for information--OKW/WR for information. Top Secret, only to be transmitted via officers. According to information received, numerous German political refugees are supposed to be amongst the Free French Units in Africa. The Fuehrer has ordered that they are to be treated with the greatest severity. They are therefore to be disposed of without mercy in battle. Where this has not happened, they are to be shot retroactively on the command of the nearest German officer immediately and without further ado, as long as they do not have to be kept back for the time being for screening purposes. Written handing on this order is forbidden. Commanders are to be informed verbally." It is unsigned. criminality as appears quite clearly from the sentence: "The Fuehrer has ordered that they are to be treated with the greatest severity. The order which the army puts on that in sending it out is to kill. Do you remember the death of Fieldmarshal Rommel? that there was something suspicious about the death of Rommel; did you hear those rumors at that time ? have refused to act as a representative of the Fuhrer at the State Funeral for Fieldmarshal Rommel; otherwise it would have been an infamy beyond words. er , from the American papers, according to which Rommel's young son was supposed to have made the statement; namely, that his father took poison in order not to be hanged.
the death of Rommel up to the end of the war, that it was being generally said that Rommel had been "bumped off".
A No; it was merely said that he had been under suspicion.
M. CALVACORESSI: Your Lordship, I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Any other cross examination ? Dr. Laternser. BY DR. LATERNSER: an affidavit No. 4, which comes from Fieldmarshal von Brauchitsch and is in a group of five. The prosecution attached value to this statement that, as it is stated in this affidavit, we are concerned with the personal visits from the Supreme Commanders and that the Supreme Commander would have to be in a position to get the advice of those other Supreme Commanders who were under him. What was the nature of such a condition; on which subject could it have been made and on which matters?
A The matter was not simple. Let me put it this way. If I am the Commander of a Regiment and give a talk to my commanders "You, do this or the or take this and that village", he does it, and then "How did you take it?", like that. Or if told to do something, he says, "I should rather like to do it to the left or further to the right", it is like on a higher level. Or I may be told by my superiors to do something, and he Trill say "von Runstedt" how are you going to do it?", and I might say, "I perhaps will need one more division." I say that, but I would never say to my superior "That you are doing or saying is wrong." When one gets a task, one does not, he does not discuss it with his superior or say it is wrong. I believe it is understand With Hitler, to argue, it is out of the question.
Q Now with reference to the affidavit number 5, of Col. General Blaskowitz. The prosecution has emphasized that offices of the Army group, and the Army, by means of telephone and wire, had been in contact and had been in a position to get a report from each other, on the situation. Are we not concerned with the ordinary daily communiques which every unit Commander would make?
A Yes, definitely, if I may say so. These situation reports were carried out once in the morning on what happened during the previous night, and once at night as to what happened during the day. If there was action which was of particular importance, then I would report once or twice or three times, as "How are things going?", "How are you doing?" and for the reason of clearing this statement, I shall read part of this to you now Affidavit of 10 November 1945. Then subsequently I shall ask you whether this is the correct version, as he has described it. I quote "The present affidavit's purpose is to make clear the restriction I made use of in my affidavit of 10th November 1934: (in their sphere' (meaning commanders at the front). What I state in today's supplementary declaration should be included in the restriction. There can be no thought of advice from a commander at the front coning within a "group" or an actual "advisory circle." Both expressions might be misunderstood; they should only designate a circle in which individual advisers could be heard by their superiors on matters affecting the individual's sphere." Would this supplement to this previous explanation correspond to the facts in the case as they occurred?
occurred before the opening of the Russian Campaign, between you and Field Marshal von Bock?
A That was not a misunderstanding between von Bock and myself. This was a plan laid down by the OKH, and I was commanding the Army South, I disagrees with this plan. That is why I disagreed. It was not a misunderstanding at all. That was a suggestion or improvement coming from me. We would just talk of it. take place later?
A They took place one after the other. First Bock had his turn. He did his arguing. Then I had my turn with my leaders. I was referred to the order that officers should not know about matters except what concerned them. Thatmeant that I was not supposed to know what Bock knew and he was not supposed to know what I knew. According in Hitler, it was not my information
Q That went then so far that you reported things separately?
Q An order had been submitted to you, #4067-PS. According to it, German citizens, as far as they were fighting for the Free French units in Africa, were to be shot. Did you ever hear of it?
A No, I don't know anything about the order.
Q You said before that you had never agreed with von Bock. In this affidavit, Field Marshal von Bock announces the opinion of what is called the "Group of German Staff Officers." Did Field Marshal von Bock have a particular close connection with the Officers?
A He was also a stranger to us. He was of another region. He was philosophical and no one could talk to him. He was a stranger. Once he was a subordinate of mine, before becoming Minister of War.
Q You have not answered the question. Did von Bock have a close contact with the Officers indicted here?
A That I can't say.
DR. LATERNSER: Thank you very much. I have no further question. Mr. President, in the event that Doctor Schriber is produced by the Russian prosecution, only for that case I should like to make application for yet another witness. He is to be questioned on this point, on which he can give the most exact information about that subject. Only this question.
THE PRESIDENT : Will you say what point you mean?
DR. LATERNSER: The Russian prosecution today, during the cross-examination of von Mannstein, had submitted a written statement regarding a special type of warfare.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but there are four points in that statement. Which one do you refer to? There is not only one. There are a number of points.
DR. LATERNSER: In the event the witness arrives, I would like to make application that I be given an opportunity to produce a Witness of mine, to be questioned about these points. Only an application made for an eventuality.
THE PRESIDENT: You must make the application new, Who is the witness?
DR. LATERNSER: If the witness appears here, I would like to call, to give evidence on this subject, Medical Officer Dr. Handloser, as a witness for the defense.
THE PRESIDENT: Is he in Nurnberg, or where?
DR. LATERNSER: I cannot live you the place where he is, Mr. President, but I will surely give every of effort to ascertain it.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Laternser, the Tribunal thinks the application should be made in writing, giving the reasons, why you think this doctor knows anything about the biological Warfare, and where you can find him. Have you concluded with your witness?
DR. LATERNSER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has now only the SA to consider. Will you call your witness for the SA?
DR. BOEHM: I should like to hear first, the first witness, Franz Bock, for the SA.
FRANZ BOCK, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Will you state your full name, please?
Q Will you repeat this oath after me; I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath).
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
BY DR. BOEHN:
Q Witness, when did you join the SA?
Q What was your profession at the time?
Q what offices did you hold in the SA?
A From 1922 to 1929, I was an SA man - an SA private. From 1929 until 1932 I had the rank of Truppfuehrer; in 1930 I became a Sturmfuehrer; in 1931 I became a Sturmbannfuehrer. In 1932 when I became unemployed at that time and as a Sturmbannfuehrer, I joined the SA Group south-west as an adjutant, which then became my profession. In 1933 I was transferred to the SA Group in Bavaria east. In 1934 as Standartenfuehrer I was transferred to Trauntheim. From 1935 to 1937,. I Was Brigadefuehrer. In 1937 I became department chief and later chief of the loading department of the supreme staff of the SA. In 1940, I entered the military service. After being in action, toward the end of 1942, I came to Dusseldorf as the leader of the Lower Rhone. There, I remained until who collapse in 1945.
Q So you are one of the oldest SA leaders. You can therefore tell us why the SA was created and how it was organized, about 1920. Shortly Thereafter they were organized into a guard or protection organization as an order group. At that time, the SA consisted of young idealists and front soldiers and fighting men from the last war. It was not particularly well organized until approximately 1925. It was created in accordance with the local needs and necessities, assembly halls What was to be achieved by these means? at that time and there were mysterious objections from our opponents, who tried to fight against the party even with means of terror. From that a so-called protection organization arose and so called assembly block.
Q Why did the SA fight against those so-called opponents at that time?
A Every ambition for self preservation demands a fight. The realization of National Socialistic ideas, with the aim to achieve the power in the state, demanded a fight.
In the political pattern, it means a fight against the propaganda by spreading propaganda or by word of mouth. organization of the SA in 1931? in 1935 and organically speaking with the development of the entire party. It was closely connected with the party and merely had a few small differences on the part of the organization. In principle, it was wielded into one by the party. The party was growing at that time. The SA Was recognized by the different powers in the state and was allowed by them, just as all other political parties. For instance, the Reichsbanner or the Union of Storm Fighters, Who were the factions of the various organizations and parties of the time. in 1931? over the entire Reich did make it necessary, particularly at that time, in my opinion. This brought a closer cooperation and the bringing about of closer coordination on the part of the leadership of the SA. Furthermore, it was urgently necessary that when the party rallies, which took place every year when the SA was the main banner of the "March On" for these purposes of propaganda, the SA should have been closely organized within itself and sub-divided accordingly. to military factions? uniforms. First of all they had a green shirt and later on a brown shirt, but first of all they were civilian clothes. The SA had to have a certain uniform at that time to make a difference between the SA and the other organizations. If I remember correctly, the uniform at the time was not of a military character and that cannot be derived from it. we never thought at the time that this type of clothing showed any particular type of military character, nor was it supposed to have. of distinction indicating they were Units?
to ours and they were our typo of shirt uniform. I think that the shirt was grey-green or something like that. All organizations at the time were appearing in the uniforms typical of the organization.
Q Did the SA have arms and who was allowed to carry such arms? ordered. After 1933, the SA had the so-called "Dagger of Honor", which they received in 1933 or 1934. Later on, only a leader was allowed to carry a pistol and then only with an appropriate police order or a pass for same. The carrying of arms, particularly at that time, was supervised by the police and state and at the time when I was loading units, before every meeting and during every meeting or during our marches and demonstration, we were all searched by the police for arms. We had the strictest orders at the time not to carry arms, even if it was dangerous.
(A RECESS WAS TAKEN.)
Q. Witness, you were active in the police and were armed. By whom were you armed ?
A. As far as I know, the SA units were treated in state emergencies as auxiliary police and in each case were armed by the competent authorities by whom they were employed, and were essentially led by the military or police agencies.
Q. You know that special units were established in the SA. Please tell me what the tasks of these special units were.
A. These special units were created in the SA in the first place to correspond to the peculiar characteristics of the country, in one hand, the people living near the ocean or these living in the mountains, or in the second place to give the technical abilities of the SA men opportunity. Training in these was, in general, the same as in other SA Sturme. Only to the extent that these Sturme had information material at their disposal or could obtain it as it applied to these special field was service in these special fields carried on. units and technical units for our big parades, for the demonstrations and so forth, because we could be completely independent here. For example in carrying out a big Party rally in Nurnberg, it was absolutely essential to be able to direct 100,000 men, for us to have intelligence means and engineering means to make the arrangements ourselves for these rallies, and it was the same with the individual guards. There also, the intelligence units were set up for such purposes. units were used, in a sense, for service in catastrophe and protection against catastrophe, for which the SA was employed.
Q. For what purpose did the SA keep musicians' units ?
A. They belonged to the marching units when they wanted to appear for Propagandistic and recruiting purposes. In addition, they needed these musicians' units for the big rallies of the Party.
Q. From what point of view was assignment in the SA made ?
A. I should like to say that that varied greatly everywhere. In the first place, it was according to purely Party viewpoints, and as I said in regard to these special units, for the Party rally parades and so forth, for the meetings, for the distribution of handbills, and so forth. for the parade in such a Way that they would be a good means of recruitement in the demonstration, and finally, for service in catastrophes which had to be practiced in order to be effective.
Q. Did the SA members perform, their obligations ?
A. As far as I could see in my units, the SA men performed their duty gladly, only there were great difficulties for the men, difficulties arising from the men's occupational duties. For example, a worker in the Ruhr District could, of course, not always be available at a camp for his service lly in the country districts it was very difficult. It was limited to the fall and winter months when training could be carried on.
Q. Did the SA men perform their duty according to their oath or in blind obedience ?
A. The SA man performed his duty voluntarily. He followed, according to an oath, the orders which were given to him. The oath was that he, the SA man, was obligated to absolute obedience to his superior unless illegal things Were demanded of him. That is about how it read. Service in the SA was voluntary, you said. Do you know of no cases in which the principle of voluntary service was broken ?
A. It may be that units appeared with the SA who were not built up on a voluntary basis. I am speaking, for example, of the Reich schools or the Sturme which were recruited primarily from students later on.
Q. Were there Punishments in the SA ? Was there a code of punishment and why was it necessary ?
A. There was a penal code in the SA and there were punishments. The SA had to have these in order to maintain discipline and order in its ranks. One must consider that in the SA we had people from all sections of the population, and that after the seizure of power we received an enormous number of people into our ranks, all of whom we could not oversee, so disciplinary and penal codes had to be created in order to maintain order and discipline.
There was no prison punishment in the SA. So-called arrest sentences were provided for which were intended primarily for the schools In all my time, I never needed to use them.
Q. From the fact of the existence of a penal code, can one not conclude a military character of the SA ?
A. Not according to my opinion. One must have punishments in any organization.
Q. What other regulations were there in the SA ?
A. There was a general service regulation in the SA; there was a uniform regulation, a medical regulation, and the drill order.
Q. Why was this drill regulation necessary ? Must one not conclude a military character of the SA from it ?
A. The drill regulation was a regulation for exercise. It was created in the SA in order that the units which were to march would give the necessary good picture. These exercises concerned the appearance, the bearing of the men, and were primarily to effect marching discipline. A comparison with the service regulations of the Army is not possible, for as I know these regulations of the Army, they include drill With arms in the forms of battle, while we had only physical exercises.
training?
A There was an SA sport insignia. After 1939, after the decree of the 19th of January, it was called the Defense Insignia. This SA Sport or Defense Insignia was an award for achievement; like the German Sport Insignia it was an award for achievement. It included Group 1, so-called physical exercises, that is for physical achievement; Group 2, defense sport exercises; and Group 3, water service and mental exercises. That is how they were taught and practiced. This defense insignia had the purpose of achieving moral defense among the SA. By that I mean there was taught in the schools first a mental attitude toward defense in the sense of a patriotic conviction, the training of the men for defense and for self-consciousness, and finally the maintaining of the physical strength through bodies trained in sports. possible on a large scale, or was special preparation necessary? long preparation. It was clear that this insignia first had to be taught by corresponding men and leaders and that corresponding training had to be given before the execution of this insignia could be carried out on a broad basis. In addition, in the execution of this insignia, essentially and primarily in the country we lacked the necessary means. Thus it came about that after the reestablishment of this Sport Insignia in 1935 the Sport Insignia had to be carried into the life of the SA men gradually year after year. In addition, to work for this Sport or Defense Insignia was not the main task which we had in the SA but taking this test was more or less voluntary and supplementary in intention and execution. judged from a military point of view? point of view but, as I said, like the Reich Sport Insignia, as an Insignia of achievement. Essentially it included the disciplines which were included in to German Sport Insignia or in any other sport discipline; for example, the obstacle races, hammer throw, spear throwing, swimming, etc.
the defense of the country. What do you have to say to that? role in the defense of a country. What schools were there in the SA?
A There were four possibilities of training in the SA. First, the so-called week-end training, covering free Saturdays and Sundays. At these week-end courses the lower ranks, the Scharfuehrer and Trupp fuehrers were primarily trained. This was a so-called elementary training for the lower units. This was only a brief training which could be held when necessary. The next school was the so-called SA Gruppenschulen (Group School), that is within the district of a Gruppe. It included the Sturmfuehrer and lasted about two weeks. At the so-called SA Gruppenschulen the purpose of the training was the formation of comradeship in the Sturmfuehrer, to introduce them into general SA service in their Sturme, to instruct them briefly in sport activities and at the same time to introduce them to the discipline of the Sport or Defense Insignia. Furthermore, questions of the day were discussed, brief general mental training, and, finally, an examination of their achievements, ability and character. The next school was the Reichschulen (Reich Schools). They were primarily for the middle leaders, the Sturmbannfuehrer and Standartenfuehrer. The service was more or less the same as at the Gruppenschulen only one step higher. Generally there was an examination of the ability and achievement of the individual and of his character, and an introduction to the SA service at the rank represented. These schools were also...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Boehm, can't you condense this a little bit? We have got this all. You are going straight through the examinations as far as can make out, where you know we don't want that.
DR. BOEHM: Yes, Mr. President, I will try to condense it a little. What do you have to say to that? Officers for the Wehrmacht, of course.
schools, only trained for SA Fuehrers and nothing else.
Q Were drills with arms carried out at these schools? trained men of the SA were sent to the Wehrmacht. What do you have to say to that? military service no matter to what organization he belonged. The SA did not train any soldiers. In 1940 I myself served in the Wehrmacht as a simple soldier and became an officer, although I had been inspector of the SA Gruppenschulen. any way? no right to inspect the schools. defense training in the SA? connected with a clear political idea. As for military training in a military spirit we understood as training in physical, mental, and spiritual attitude, nothing else. the 19th of January, 1939. How about this order? Was it carried out or not?
A This order of the 19th of January was not carried out. Immediately after the outbreak of war, When all the preparations involved in this order had not been concluded, the commander-in-chief of the army repealed it and postponed it until the end of the war. Chief of Staff Lutze intended on the. 1st of October to have an experimental beginning of this training but this was not done. At the beginning of the war everything was still in an experimental stage and in a preparatory stage.
Q. Can one say that the decree of the Fuehrer of the 19th of January, 1939, can be interpreted to mean that this was in a logical development to the work of the SA before 1939?
A. As I could see it, no. The state of training of the SA when the decree was issued was not such that one could speak of an analogous continuation. Our whole training from 1934 to 1939 was only a general sport training. Otherwise, in my opinion, there would have been no need for any agreement between, the SA and the commanders in chief of the three branches of the Wehrmacht. In the second place, immediately after the 19th of January we could have begun, and in the third place, the training of the SA fuehrers, as far as I know, was about 30% not military training. To be able to fulfill even the slightest military demands these leaders would no doubt first have had to learn in the army what had to be done for this training.
Q. Can one say that in the field of pre-military and post-military training as originally ordered, any practical execution ever took place?
A. In my opinion, no. In the first place, this order was given only on the 19th of January, not before, and it was never carried out. In the second place, it could not be, because it was to begin only on the first of October. No men could come back, since on the first of September the war had begun. Only the preparations were made of a technical and financial nature, and perhaps the general considerations of how and in what way this order could be carried out.
Q. And then an order was given that this activity concerning Premilitary and post-military traaining of the SA should be stopped?
A. As far as I know, this was issued by the commander-in-chief of the army. In the second place, by the party chancellory in the same way that this measure was to be put aside, and if I recall rightly, this letter of the party chancellory in cluded further instructions that this whole decree of the 19th of January, because of the difficulties connected with the youth organizations and with the party units -- execution by the SA alone was to be reviewed and perhaps given up entirely.
Q. Did the SA have the financial possibility for creating training opportunities, especially in the special units?
A. The SA had very slight opportunity. For example, the SA Sturm had 80 to 120 men. A Standarte had about 800 to 1200 men. An SA Gruppe had about 2500 to 3500. I can't say exactly. These means were just sufficient in order. to cover the immediate needs for the offices. For any larger undertakings, for our special units, we had hardly any means. If from time to time We received any funds, than those were only smaller amounts which were distributed over the SA leadership. Generally, however, and I believe I have mentioned that, our SA men, especially in the special units, Sondereinheiten, to the extent of about 90%, manufactured their tools themselves or from means which the had collected from friends of acquaintances or had brought with them.
Q. Witness, there was some shooting in the SA, among other things. Witness you well us what kind of weapons that shooting was carried on with and how Any of these weapons were at the disposal of the individual leaders?
A. The SA carried out shooting exercises on ranges with small caliber weapons and in part also with proper guns. At any rate, at various leader meetings we had shooting competition, but just as a matter of entertainment. Some SA men and units on private rifly ranges or clubs from time to time were carrying out competitions in regular shooting. The rifles which we had, the number of rifles, was very small. I remember -
THE PRESIDENT: We wurely don't want the details of these rifles. You have probably got it all in your hearings at the Commission, the details of the particular caliber of the rifles.
DR. BOEHM: Mr. President, this witness was also only named for two questions, the question of military training in the SA and several questions in connection with the newspaper "Der SA Mann," the publication. I believe that I have only a few more questions to put to this witness altogether. BY DR. BOEHM:
Q. You have spoken about schools before -- troop schools, and so on. During the war were these schools continued?
A. Shortly after the beginning of the war -- no, I would rather say immediately at the beginning of the war, the largest number of these SA school were transferred to Berlin. Only a few were still continued. The reason for that was that in the course of time more and more SA men and leaders were inducted into the armed forces, and on the other hand these who remained at home by their occupation were kept so busy that they could no longer carry out there service in the SA to the fullest extent, and especially at school.
Q. Now I should like to ask about another subject, the last one which would like to discuss with you, and that is the publication "The SA Man". Can we consider "The SA Man" as an official publication of the supreme SA leadership?
A. No, I did not consider it an official publication because I know that "The SA Mon", that is, the publication, had not been published by the SA leadership. I was a publication such as many others.
Q. What was the attitude of the supreme SA leadership to that publication
A. The supreme SA leadership has published official statements -- office publications, such as promotions or announcements of a similar nature, in that publication. Apart from that, the contents were similar to those of other publications. ship have any influence on that publication.
A. No, I had no influence on that publication. I only know that my superior, the Hauptamtschef, meaning the chief of the office, had tried repeatedly to get a special section in that publication for the purpose of training -- a publication about training. It was not possible, though. I do not know for what readon, but I have always assumed that they were purely business matters which made that impossible.
Q. Now was that publication "The SA Man" used for training purposes with in the SA?
A. I have not noticed that. I have not experienced that, not seen it. That publication was distributed in schools and was read there such as other purblications were, but for special training purposes, as much as I know, it was not used.
Q. There appeared in that publication articles about armament in other nations, a series of articles. Couldn't we say that these articles were published in order to give reason for our own armament?
A. In my opinion, that particular weekly was not as well distributed that it could have had any influence on important people or large numbers of people.
Q. Do you know of a publication within the SA which had been an official organ?
A. The Verordnungsblatt, the official Werordnungsblatt, the publication containing regulations of the supreme SA leadership, or for instance the SA Fuehrer, the "SA Leader" which was published by a special department in the supreme SA leadership.