A. That I do not know.
Q. Was there an Einsatzgruppe attached to your Army, the Eleventh Army ?
A. Yes. It was Rudolph Hess's Einsatzgruppe operating in the area of my army.
Q. I think you told us earlier that the Einstzgruppe was entirely under the orders of Himmler for operational purposes. I think you also told us that Himmler was a bitter enemy of the Army. What did you do when you learned there was an Einstzgruppe attached to the Army ? What were you told about it ?
A. At that time it was reported to me than an organization in the operation zone was investigating the population from a political point of view, and that the orders for that had one Himmler to them. I could not do anything against that because I could not possibly assume that these units of the SS were following criminal tasks.
Q. Is the Commander-in-Chief pleased to have an independant unit operating in his area which he cannot order around ? Is that customary ? Do you like it ?
A. No, Of course, I do not like it, but then there were numerous other independant units, the Air Force, for instance, which aid not come under our Command in any way when we were fighting together. We had to make arrangements with them. Legally, it did not come under cur jurisdiction either. The same applied to the Economic Staff East, and the same applied to the Police. In short, we were confined to military leadership. That is the best thing that can happen to a soldier because of other matters he knows very little according to popular judgment.
Q. Did it not even arise your curiosity to have an independant unit under Himmler's orders operating in your area ? Did it not stimulate you to find out what he was doing ?
A. The task of investigating the population for their political reliability was reported to me. I have already said that I would only be at Army Headquarters for two or three days after which I went to the front. And I must say that the military fighting was occuping my time to such an extent during the entire winter when I was a commander, that there was no time to satisfy my curiousity.
Q. You talked to the Chief-of-Staff and other staff officers from time to time, did you not ?
A. The other supreme commanders I only mot when there was some conference at the OKH. I talked to my general staff, naturally. This question of the SD never cropped up because as far as we were concerned, it did not appear as an important question to us.
Q. Did you not ever ask your chief of staff or any staff officer to keep you very carefully informed on what these independent groups under Himmler were doing in your area ?
A. No. This group was comparatively small. It never became obvious. never became apparent. It only became apparent to us when they were supplying us with people and organizations for the partisan fights in the Krimm(Crimea) I know that my staff was negotiating with the SS leader on that occasion.
Q. I have two or three documents dealing with this matter which are already in evidence. I would like to show them to you and ask you a question about it. The first one is the affidavit Number 12, which is already in evidence. It is USA 557. The first part of this affidavit concerns matters which you probably do not know about directly. You should know about the second paragraph, certainly. This is an affidavit by Walter Schellenberg. I would like to read the following paragraphs:
"In the middle of May 1943, as far as I remember, the Chief of Amt 4, of the RSHA (SS-Brigadefuehrer Mueller), in the name of the Chief of the RSHA. (SS-Gruppenfuehrer Heydrich), hold discussions with the Generalquartiermeister of the army (General Wagner) about questions connected with the operations of the SIPO and SD within the bounds, of the Field Army during the imminent campaign against Russia. Wagner could come to no agreement with Mueller and therefore asked Heydrich to send another representative, I was at that time Chief of Section E in Amt 4 of the RSHA under Chief of Amt protocol to be sent to Heydirch for the purpose of drawing up the final agreement. According to the instructions given to me, I was supposed to make sure that this agreement would provide that the responsible headquarters in the Army would be firmly obligated to give complete support to all activities of the Combat Groups and Combat Commandos of the SIPO and SD.
I discussed the problem of this mutual relationship in great detail with Wagner. In accordance with this Discussion I then presented him with the completed draft of an agreement, which met with his full approval. This draft of an agreement was the basis for a final discussion between Wagner and Heydrich towards the end of May 1941. ly as follows: Its basis was the Fuehrer's command, mentioned at the verybeginning of the agreement, that the SIPO and SD should operate within the combat elements of the Field Army with the mission of utterly smashing all resistance in conquered front-line areas as well as in conquered rear supply zones by ever means and as quickly as possible. The various areas were the: set down in which the SIPO and SD were to be active and operating. The individual Combat Groups were then assigned to the army groups which were to take part in the campaign and the individual Combat Commandos to the respective armies which were to take part in the campaign.
The Combat Groups and Combat Commandos were to operate in detail:
1) in front-line areas : in complete subordination to the Field administratively;
2) in rear operational in merely administrative subordination areas:
to the Field Army, but under the command and functional control of the RSHA;
3) in rear Army areas: arrangement as in 2;
4) in areas of the civil East:
same as in the Reich. line headquarters of the Field Army over the Combat Commandos found no limitation in the agreement and therefore needed no further clarification,
THE PRESIDENT: This is already in evidence, so we do not need the details.
BRIGADIER GENERAL TAYLOR: It is in evidence. It was never read before I have just one more paragraph I would like to read with your permission.
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed.
BRIGADIER GENERAL TAYLOR: "The agreement made it clear that the administrative subordination embraced not only disciplinary subordination but also the obligation for rear headquarters of the Field Army to support the Combat Groups and Combat Commandos in matters of supply (Gasoline, rations, etc.) as well as in the use of the communications network". That is all that needs to be read, Your Honor. BY BRIGADIER GENERAL TAYLOR:
Q. Witness, is it not true that the Army made it possible for these Einstzgruppen and Einstzkommandos to operate; that you furnished them with the supplies and transports and other things they had to have to carry out their mission ?
A. Yes. Certainly we had to do that because of the economic contribution the SS made to cur Army.
Q. Is it not also true, that the Commanding Generals, had to keep track of what these units were doing so that their operations would not interfere With military operations ?
A. No. Actually the commanding general would not have to bother with the Einsatz groups unless they appeared at the front and I, as Commanding General as I have told you, did not meet such an Einstazgruppe in my zone.
Q. Have you told the Tribunal it was only at the front where military operations could be distrubed ? Is it also true rear areas are also import were you not concerned about the rear area, too ?
A. we were interested in securing our supply in the rear area. Roads and rails were important. A disturbance there could only have taken place if, for instance, through mass execution or some such matter as it is now becoming apparent that these things have happened, there was disquiet amongst the population. The commanders of the rear areas would have heard about this, and they would have interferred.
135. May I call your attention to paragraph 2, sub-division A, beginning with "The area of operations." Do you see that?
Q I would like to read two paragraphs:
"The area of operations, created through the advance of the Army beyond the frontiers of the Reich and the neighboring countries is to be limited in depth as far as possible. The Supreme Commander of the Army has the right to exercise the executive power in this area, and may transfer his authority onto the Supreme Commanders of the Army Groups and armies.
"b) "In the area of operations, the Reichsfuehrer SS is, on behalf of the Fuehrer, entrusted with special tasks for the preparation of the political administration, tasks which result from the striggle which has to be carried out between two opposing political systems. Within the realm of those tasks, the Reichsfuehrer SS shall act independantly and under his own responsibility. The executive power invested in the Supreme Commander of the army (OKW) and in agencies determined by him shall not be affected by this. It is the responsibilty of the Reichsfuehrer SS that through the execution of his tasks military operatic shall not be disturbed. Details shall be arranged directly through the OKH with the Reichsfuehrer SS." your headquarters to make sure that the operations staff group did not interfere with military operations and that you must have kept yourself fully informed on what they were doing? Commanders would have to be informed, but the fact that the political police were supervising occupied area and in that occupied area the political reliability of people was being investigated is by no reasons means for an assumption that there were mass shootings or that there were shootings at all were taking place in this area. The political supervision by political police is an affair which must exist in every occupied territory. ings in your area, is that right? You did not know of any?
would like to read two paragraphs from the last page of the translation. I think the two paragraphs in question are marked in your copy. They are on pages 17 or 18. You will see the original report covering the activities of the Einsatzgruppe in the U. S. S. R. during the month of October and it covers the activities of all four Einsatzgruppes, including group B. which was attached to your army. The section beginning on page 16 relates to the activities of the Einsatzgruppes C and D, which were in the Ukraine. Undo that you will note Paragraph B, which is headed "Arrests and executions of communists and Officials." Do you find that?
Q I quote: "The search for leading communists resulted in the arrest of Kaminski, former GPU chief of Cherson. In the years 1919/21 he had carried out the liquidation of the Czarist officers. The head of the prison work shops of the NKVD was also caught.
"In Kiev a number of NKVD officials and political commissars were rendered innicuous."
"The next sub-head (c). The first two paragraphs relates to cities outside your area I believe. Then there is a paragraph which deals with Cherson. Cherson is about 40 miles from Nikolajev, would you say that 60 Killometers would be right Q. "I quote:
In Cherson 410 Jews were executed as a measure of retaliation for acts of sabotage. Especially in the area of the Dnjepr the solution of the Jewish question has been taken up energetically by the task forces of the security Police and the SD. The areas newly occupied by the Commandos were purged of Jews. In the course of this action 4891 Jews were liquidated, At other places the Jews were marked and registered. This rendered it possible to put at the disposal of the Wehrmacht for urgent labor, Jewish worker groups up to 1000 persons." of this Einsatzgruppe under your army? received the report about the shooting of the Jews there, nor did I receive a report of the arrest of the G.P.U. man Kaminski. I remained in that section only until about the 24th of September then I moved to my command post in the Nogar Steppe, which is much further east.
As far as the liquidation of Jews east of the Dnieper is concerned, I know that my army had not been at that operational zone. In our territory most of the population were German militarists as the population had been taken away by the Russian Army. Therefore, the liquidation of Jews could not have taken place at all as there were no Jews there and mere than 4,000 could not have been liquidated, That was the operational zone for the fourth Army. tions to the troops to liqudate the Jews and Commissars?
Q Did General Reichenau issue such an instruction?
A No. I only know of one order of Reichenau, which has been brought up in court, where he discussed the fighting in the east and by Hitler's order it was sent as an example. I personally turned down the order and therefore sis not apply it in any way and I know of no other supreme Commander who used the order revenge on Jews and all elements of Bolshevism, did it not?
A No, I did not know and. I consider it out if the question that he did order that. like General "Reichenau's order?
A "It was not suggested to me. He had it sent to us by order of the fuehrer. I considered the special order as quite wrong because I was interested in the military fight end no other type of fighting.
Q So you did not do anything about it? I will now ask that the Witness be shown document 4046-PS USA 927. Will you look at this document, witness, and tell us if this is not a document issued from your headquarters and signed with your facsimile signature, it is dated November 20, 1941?
A I shall first look at the Document. I do not recollect the contents of it.
Q Is that your signature?
I gave it or not. Ref. IC id the intelligence office, is it not? but it has nothing to do with these matters.
Q. And just below there is a stamp of the 72nd Division, 27 November 1941, Diary Number 10, and at the left it appears to have been issued by Army High Command 11 at Army Headquarters, 20 November 1941. Secret.
"Since 22.6 the German people is engaged in life and death struggle against the Bolshevist system.
"This struggle is not being carried on against the Soviet Armed Forces alone in the established form laid down by European rules of warfare.
"Behind the front too, the fighting continues. partisan snipers dressed as civilians attack single soldiers and small units and tru to disrupt our supplies by sabotage with mimes and infernal machines. Bolshevists left behind keep the population freed from Bolshevism in a state of unrest by means of terror and attempt thereby to sabotage the political and economic pacification of the country. Harvests and factories are destroyed and the city population in particular is thereby ruthlessly delivered to starvation.
"Jewry constitutes the middle man between the enemy in the rear and the still fighting remainder of the Red Armed Forces and the Rod leadership. More strongly than in Europe it holds all the key positions in the political leadership and administration, controls trades and guilds and further forms the nucleus for all unrest and possible uprisings.
"The Jewish-Bolshevist system must be exterminated once and for all. Never again must it encroach upon our European living space.
"The German soldier has therefore not only the task of crushing the military potential of this system. He comes also as the bearer of a racial concept and as the avenger of all the cruelties which have been perpetrated on him and on the German people.
"The fight behind the lines is not yet being taken seriously enough. Active cooperation of all soldiers must be demanded in the disarming of the population, the control and arrest of all roving soldiers and civilians and the removal of Bolshevist symbols.
"Every instance of sabotage must be punished immediately with the severest measures and all signs thereof must be reported.
"The food situation at home makes it essential that the troops should as far as possible be fed off the land and that furthermore the largest possible stocks be placed at the disposal of the homeland, particularly in enemy cities a large part of the population will have to go hungry. Nevertheless nothing which the homeland has sacrificed itself to contribute may, out of a misguided sense of humanity, be given to Prisoners or to the population--so long as they are not in the service of the German Wehrmacht.
"The soldier must appreciate the necessity for harsh punishment of Jewry, the spiritual bearer of the Bolshevist terror. This is also necessary in order to nip in the bud all uprisings which are mostly attributable to Jews.
"It is the task of leaders at all levels to keep constantly alive the meaning of the present struggle. Support for the Bolshevist fight behind the front by way of thoughtlessness must be prevented.
"It is to be expected that non-Bolshevist Ukrainians, Russians and Tartars will be converted to the New Order. The non-participation of numerc alleged anti-Soviet elements must give place to a definite decision in favor of active cooperation against Bolshevism. Where it does not exist it must be forced by suitable measures.
"Voluntary cooperation in the reconstruction of occupied territory is an absolute necessity for the achievement of our economic and political aims.
"It has as its condition a just treatment of all non-Bolshevist sections of the population some of whom have for years fought heroically against Bolshevism.
"The ruling of this country demands from us results, strictness with ourselves and submergence of the individual. The bearing of every soldier is constantly under observation. It can make enemy propaganda ineffective or give it a springboard. If the soldier in the country takes from he peasant, the last cow, the breed sow, the last chicken or the seed, then no restoration of the economy can be achieved.
"In all measures it is not the momentary success which is decisive. All measures must, therefore, be judged by their effectiveness over a pert of time.
"Respect for religious customs, particularly those of Mehammedan Tarta must be demanded.
"In pursuance of these concepts there are other measures besides to be carried out by the later Administration. The enlightenment the population by propaganda, encouragement of personal initiative, e.g., by prizes, extensive detailing of the population towards fighting the partisans and expansion of the local auxiliary police must be given more significance.
"For the achievement of this object the following must be demanded.
"severest action to be taken :
Against every transgression of the honor of a soldier." and independent " battalions. to you together with the Reichenau order ? The resemblance between the two to say the least, striking and the date is about the same.
A. I shall Brave to tell you that this order escapes my memory absolutel According to what is contained in the last part particularly, I must assume that the order is genuine and has been issued by me. whether it was given the strength of the Reichenau order or not I cannot tell you, to the best my ability, but I do want to point out to you, that if it says here that the system must be exterminated, then that is extermination of the Bolshevi system but not the extermination of human beings. of collaboration with the SD, a collaboration which, because of the lack of knowledge we had of the doings of the SD, was out of the question in any case. soldiers -- namely, that they must not take the fast cow away from the farmers, that they must respect religious customs, that they must respect the other sex and that, on the other hand, they naturally must not be careless of the danger of partisans, something which the German soldier was always inclined to be any wildness on the part of the German soldier, any lack of discipline, and most of all any violation of the honor of a soldier.
Commissioner, were you not? You were asked, and I read on page -- I will have to find the page, Your Honor. I have a typed copy here, Your Honor, without the final page reference.
Were you questioned before the Commissioners as follows:
"You know the order of General Reichenau in which he stated that there should be no consideration shown to the civilian population? Did you see the order and did he have any influence on your attitude and that of your troops to the civilian population?"
And you answered:
"We were informed of this order upon the suggestion of the Fuehrer, but none of the other leaders were of the same opinion as Reichenau, and it was never carried cut, especially in my area."
You had not forgotten the Reichenau order, had you? had been completely forgotten by me, and particularly this order of mine had been completely forgotten by me. After all, that is not surprising because that is a number of years age, and during these years I have signed hundreds, i not thousands, of orders, and I cannot possibly remember every detail.
Q Did you sign a lot of orders like this one? Is that why you have such difficulty remembering it? I have signed a lot of other orders, particularly a large number of reports and letters to be read by me, and I admit that I have forgotten that order. That is not surprising. I only know that this order, at any rate, as opposed to the Reichenau order, very strongly emphasizes the demand which. I make for decent behavior on the part of my soldiers. That, after all, is the important point. suggested that you pass it down, and the only thing you have forgotten is that you did? when I came here when it appeared amongst the documents and before the Commission when it was shown to me.
I cannot, to the best of my ability, recollect that I gave that order. If I had done it, I would most certainly have mentioned it because in the second part the error supports my conceptions.
Q You think that you wrote the second part and not the first?
A I did not write the order at all myself. Very probably the order was shown to me in draft and then I signed it. In the first part the fight against the system and the extermination against the system is mentioned, as is the fight against the Jews as the bearers of the Partisan movement. That, after all, had its proper justification, but all that has nothing to do with the fact that Jews were to be exterminated. They were to be excluded, and the system was to be removed. That is the point that matters.
you did not even know that Jews were likely to be opposed to the new administration. It looks as if you very definitely wrote that to the attention of your soldiers; didn't you?
A. No, that I did not know that there were orders that Jews were to be exterminated. That order could not possibly recall it to me because it does not mention a word that the Jews were to be exterminated. It merely says that the system is to be exterminated. That is something quite different.
Q. I call your attention to the paragraph: "The soldier must appreciate the necessity for harsh punishment of Jewry, the spiritual bearer of the Bolshevist terror. This is also necessary in order to nip in the bud all uprisings which are mostly attributable to Jews." Jews without the soldiers knowing something about it, could they. Is that true?
A. That is perfectly possible, because as Ohlendorf has described it, the shootings of the Jews and the resettlement of them were camouflaged. The Jews were taken to desolate places and were shot and buried there, so that the commanding authorities had no knowledge of that. Naturally, it is possible that one or the other soldier, quite by accident, may have seen such an execution, and there is, in fact, evidence; I remember, for instance, the Russian indictment and an engineer in the Ukraine who was present during such a shooting and who describes it in the most horrible terms. The answer is that the fear of the SS was such that this man, instead of reporting this dirty business, kept it under his hat and is now coming out with it. Had he at that time gone to some military commanding authority and had be reported these events, then I am convinced that the commander in question would have intervened, and then, of course, we would also have heard of it, but the fact is that we did not hear about it.
GENERAL TAYLOR: One more question on this subject, Your Honor.
BY GENERAL TAYLOR:
Q. Witness, isn't it true that this order is very carefully drawn so that the troops would understand and, shall we say, sympathize with what the Einsatzkommandos were doing in the way of mass extermination of Jews?
A. You mean my order?
Q. Yes.
A. No. There is no question of that. There could be no question of my at any time, even between the lines, instigating their cooperation in such methods. How could I have referred to the soldier's honor and emphasized that in the end afterwards?
GENERAL TAYLOR: My Lord, the Prosecution has no further questions of this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: We will adjourn now.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 1000 hours, 12 August 1946.)
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Sauter, for the defendant Funk.
Mr. President, I beg to be granted permission to submit to the Tribunal an added application on behalf of Defendant Funk and read it into the record.
"On Monday, the 5th of August, 1946, that is to say a week ago today, the prosecution submitted an affidavit of the former SS Obergruppenfuehrer Oswald Pohl, its number being 4045-PS, alleging certain connections between the Defendant Funk with the SS, particularly with reference to the so-called "gold deposits " of the SS in the Reichsbank. I was unable to object to the use of this affidavit during the session of last Monday, the 5th of August because, because of illness. I was absent on that day and had reported my absence in the appropriate manner to the Secretary General. Representing me, Dr. Nelte, in a submission to the Tribunal, asked for permission, still on the same day, to interrogate witness Oswald Pohl in person in order to obtain an affidavit from him. In an application dated the 7th of august, 1946, I myself repeated that application, asking at the same time for permission to call the witness Oswald Pohl for cross examination, and also that defendant Funk himself could make statements with reference to this renewed accusations. After submission of those applications of mine, the SS judge Dr. Reineeke and Dr. Morgan, have been heard as witnesses for the SS here in Court. Both of these witnesses have raised accusations against Oswald Pohl, although he was their SS comrade, in the most serious possible manner. The testimony of these two witnesses. Dr. Reineeke and Dr. Morgan, had furnished the proof that the former Obengruppenfuehrer Oswald Pohl, that is to say, a witness of the prosecution, firstly-
THE PRESIDENT: Are you applying to cross examine Pohl or what?
DR. SAUTER: No. I shall give you the reason, Mr. President, immediately, if will permit me to do so, why I do not with to do so. I have just said that the examination of witnesses Dr. Reineeke and Dr. Morgan had furnished proof that this witness of the prosecution is, firstly, a million fold murder, and secondly, that Pohl was the head of that clique of criminals which were carrying out the atrocities in concentration camps; certainly, that Pohl, with every means at his disposal, prevented the discovery of these atrocities and that he, for this purpose, even was committing renewed murder.
All that has been ascertained from testimony given under oath by witnesses Dr. Morgen and Reineeke. Under those circumstances, Gentlemen of the Tribunal, the defense of the Defendant Funk, refuses to use such a piece as a means of evidence. I refuse, therefore, in my capacity of defense counsel for the Defendant Funk, to hear this witness or to examine the said witness brought by the Prosecution as a witness or even to cal him into the witness stand because, definitely, testimony coming from a man who without bothering his conscience, is the direct means of murdering innocent, people -
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, I understand that you are not making an application of any sort now; you are making what is in the nature of a -
DR. SAUTER: No, to the contrary, but I have another application, Mr President, I beg to have your permission to make another application, which is just about to happen. I went on to say then that testimony from a man who, without the least bothering for his conscience, has murdered millions of innocent people has made a business out of murdering people, is in our conception without value for establishing the truth.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thanks that this is an inappropriate time at which to make a protest of this sort, which is in the nature of an argument. If you are making an application, you can make an application. If you want to make a protest, you must make it later when the case for the organizations is at an end.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, may I make this explanation. We ere about to cone to the end of the submission of evidence, and it is my view that I shouldn't make this application only after the end of the trial but that this application which I am about to make right now must be made now so that the Tribunal will receive it in good time.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, if you would only come to your application we should be glad to hear it.
DR. SAUTER: Very well, Mr. President, right away. Mr. President, just one moment, may I then continue? the affidavit of Oswald Pohl, dated 15th of July, 1946, namely, Document 4045-PS, should not be admitted in evidence against the Defendant Walther Funk, and, secondly, that that part of the contents which has reference to the Defendant Funk of the affidavit of Oswald Pohl, 4045-PS, should be stricken of the record of the session of the 5th of August, 1946. Furthermore, as an additional application and as a precautionary measure, I beg permission that Defendant Walther Funk should be recalled to the witness stand in order to give him the opportunity on his part to make a statement regarding these new statements, this how testimony coming from Oswald Pohl.
Mr. President, I have submitted that application to the General Secretary in writing this morning, but I do not know when the translating division will pass it on to you. I considered it appropriate, however, to beg your permission to make this application orally to you now, so that I cannot be accused of not having done so in good time here during the session, that I had failed to do that. That is the application, Mr. President, which I beg to make.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would like to hear the Prosecution on this application.
DR. KEMPNER: May I reserve our answer until I have occasion to talk to the Chief prosecutor, Mr. Dodd ?
THE PRESIDENT: Vary well.
DR. KEMPNER: I would like to state that even murderers sometimes tell the truth.
DR. SAUTER: Thank you, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Has the prosecution the wish to crossexamine further the witness ? BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV:
Q Mr. Witness, I have two additional questions to ask you, both connected with the activities of operational Group D. You have announced here that you exclude the possibility of your Army Group having; participated in the shooting which has been conducted by this group. I went to know if you knew that the clothes taken off those shot were sent to the Army? cerned, the army quartermaster chief visited me and reported to me that he had received a large consignment of watches that he got from Germany, and also that they were brand new watches from Germany and were to be issued to the troops. As far as receiving watches from Jews who had been shot I don't know anything about that. In no case have I heard of watches belonging to Jews who had been shot. for the German army, right ? dead Jews which were put to death. That's the way I understood you.
A No, that I have not mentioned at all. The chief of army quartermaster reported to me about this consignment of German watches.