soup and a piece of bread which was for the following day. Occasionally the food on Sundays was better. An inspection of the coup as long as it existed was never undertaken by the firm of Krupp. On 13 March 1943, the camp prisoners were brought to Buchenwald Concentration Camp and from there some were sent to work. The camp commandant was SS O berscharfuehrer Rick."
The rest of it doesn't matter.
That, I suppose, in your estimation, is also an exaggeration?
DR. FLAECHSNER: Mr. P resident.
THE PRESIDENT: M ay I hear the answer? I thought the defendant said something.
DR. FLAECHSNER: M ay I call the attention of the Court to the document itself, of which I have only a copy? It is headed "Before a Military Court, under oath ", and there is simply a signature under it. It does not say that it is an affidavit or a statement in lieu of oath, or any such thing, it says only " Further inquiries must be instigated", and it is signed by Hubert Harden. That is apparently the name of the man who was making the statement. "Kriminalassistent on probation", police official. That is a man who might later become a candidate in the criminal service. He has signed it. Then there is another signature, "C. E..Long, Major President." that any of these three people want to vouch for the contents of this as an affidavit. I do not believe this document can be considered an affidavit in that sense, or can be used as such.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr. Justice J ackson? Do you wish to say anything?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The document speaks for itself. As I have pointed out to this witness, I am giving him the result of an investigation. I am not charging him with personal 21 June M LJG 10-2a Daniels responsibility for these conditions.
I intend to ask him some questions about responsibility for conditions in the camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, where is a statement at the top of the copy that I have got, "Sworn on oath before a Military Court."
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Y es, they were taken in Essen, in this investigation. Of course, if I were charging this particular defendant with the responsibility there might be some argument about it. They clearly come under the head of the Charter, which authorizes the receipt here of proceedings of other courts.
THE PRESIDENT: H ave you got the original document?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Yes.
(A document was submitted to the Tribunal.)
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal sees no objection to the document being used in cross examination.
Did you give it an exhibit number?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I should have; it is 896.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:
Q I now want to call your attention to Exhibit No. 382 .
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Justice Jackson, there are some photographs which have been put before us. Are they identified and do they form part of an exhibit?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: They form part of the exhibit which I am new offering.
THE PRESIDENT: I see.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But the witness desires to comment on the last document, and I will listen to that before we go ahead. BY MR. Justice JACKSON:
Q Yes?
responsibility, in case those conditions were generally true, on the basis of my judgment yesterday, I would consider myself responsible. I do not want to evade responsibility. But the conditions were not such. These are only individual cases. from the document, it seems to be a concentration camp, one of the small concentration camps near the concerns. The concerns could not inspect these camps. That is why it is quite true where it says that the representatives of the concern never saw the camp. for foreign workers were guarded, refers to this document, then your conclusion wa s false. As far as I know, the other labor camps were not guarded by SS or by any other organizations. My position is such that I feel it is my duty to protect the head concerns from an injustice which might be done then. They could not concern themselves with conditions in such a camp.
I cannot say whether conditions were as described in this camp. We have seen much material on conditions in concentration cases here during the trial.
Q Now I will ask to have you shown Exhibit No. D-382 -- I should say Document D-382 -- which would be United States Exhibit 897. That is the statement of several as to one of these steel boxes which stood in the foreign workers' camp in the grounds of Number 4 Armor Shop, and those of the Russian cap. I do not know that it is necessary to read the complete descriptions. circumstance? every type of work. These photographs have no value as evidence.
Q Very well. I will ask to have you shown Exhibit D-230. D-230 is an inter-office record, and the steel switches which have been found in the camp will be shown to you, 80 of them, distributed, according to the reports.
A Shall I comment on this?
Those are nothing but replacements for rubber truncheons. We had no rubber; and for that reason, the guards probably had something like this. (Indicating") any more than your police. They did not use these steel rods any more than your police use their rubber truncheons, but they had to have something in their hands. That is the way it is everywhere in the world.
Q Well, we won't argue that point.
A I am not an expert. I only assume that that is the case. I cannot testify on oath that that was the case. That was only an argument.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Justice Jackson, did you give a number to that?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: 898, your Honor. BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: the Krupp hospitals. The subject is: "Cases of Deaths of Eastern Workers."
"Fifty-four Eastern workers have died in the hospital in Lazarettstrasse, four of them as the result of external causes and fifty as a result of illnesses.
"The causes of death in the case of these fifty Eastern workers who died of illnesses were the following:
"Tuberculosis: 38 "Malnutrition:
2 "Internal hemorrhage:
1 "Disease of the bowels:
2 "Typhus:
1 "Pneumonia:
3 "Appendicitis:
1 "Liver trouble:
1 "Abscess of the brain:
1 "This list therefore shows that four-fifths died of tuberculosis and malnutrition."
conditions of the labor which was engaged in your production program?
A First I should like to comment on the document. The document does not show that the total number of the deaths of workers was to due to that which these figures refer to, so that one cannot say whether that is an unnaturally high proportion of illness. At the session of the Central Planning Board which I read here, I observed it was said that the Russian workers had a high tuberculosis rate. I do not know whether you mean that. That was a remark which Weiger made to me. But presumably we tried through the health offices to alleviate these conditions. tuberculosis; there is no doubt about that, is there?
A I do not know whether that was an abnormal death rate. But there was an abnormally high rate of tuberculosis at times. abnormally high, but it shows an abnormal proportion of deaths from tuberculosis among the total deaths, does it not? Eighty per cent of deaths from tuberculosis is a very high incidence of tuberculosis, is it not?
A That may be. I cannot say from my own knowledge.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you give that a number? That would be 899, would it not?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: That is 899, your Honor. BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:
Q Now, let me ask you to be shown Document 335. That is a report from the files of Krupp dated at Essen, the 12th of June, 1944, directed to the "Gau Camp Doctor Herr Dr. Jaeger", and signed by Stinnesbeck:
"In the middle of May I took over the medical supervision of the P.W. Camp 1420 in the Noeggerathstrasse. The camp contains 644 French P.Ws.
"During the air raid on 27 April of this year the camp was largely destroyed and at the moment conditions are intolerable.
"315 prisoners are still accommodated in the camp. 170 of these are no longer in huts but in the tunnel in Grunertstrasse on the EssenNeuhlheim railway line. This tunnel is damp and is not suitable for continued accommodation of human being. The rest of theprisoners are accommodated in 10 different factories in Krupp's works.
"The first medical attention is given by a French military doctor who takes great pains with his follow countrymen. Sick people from Krupp's factories must be brought to the sick parade, too. This parade is held in the lavatory of a burned out public house outside the camp. The sleeping accomodations of the four French medical orderlies is in what was the urinal room. There is a double tier wooden bed available for sick bay patients. In general, treatment takes place in the open. In rainy weather it has to be hold in the small room. These are insufferable conditions. There are no chairs, tables, cupboard or water. The keeping of a register of sick people is impossible. Bandages and medical supplies are very scarce, although people badly hurt in the works are very often brought here for first aid and have to be bandaged here before being transported to the hospital. There are many strong complaints about food, too, which the guard personnel confirm as being justified.
"Illness and loss of manpower must be reckoned with under these circumstances.
"The construction of huts for the accommodation of the prisoners and the building of sick quarters for the proper treatment of the sick persons is urgently necessary.
"Please take the necessary stops.
"Signed. STINNESBECK". severe air raid. The conditions were the same in those cases for Germans and foreign workers. There were no beds, no cupboards, and so forth. That was because the camp in whichthese things had been provided had burned down. That the food supply was often inadequate during this period in the Ruhr District was due to the fact that the air-borne supplies, transportation, and food transports could not be brought in to the Ruhr to the necessary extent.
time, could be improved. We made every effort when conditions became worse after September or October of 1944, or rather after November of 1944, to give food supply priority over armament needs, so as to see to it that in view of these difficulties the workers would be fed, and the armament would have to be placed in the background. conditions of these workers? Do I understand that youdid it, that you took the steps? so. That is a general humane obligation. If one hears of such conditions, he tries to alleviate then, even if it is not his own responsibility. But the witness Riecke testified here that the whole food question was under the direction of the Food Ministry. proper condition to produce? That is elementary, is it not?
A No. That is wrongly formulated. nourishment of workers and the amount of production produced is. was distributed between the Food ministry, the health office in theReich Ministry of the Interior, the labor agencies, and so on and so forth. There was no comprehensive authority in my hands. In the Reich, in our state construction, we lacked a comprehensive agency, in the form of a Reich Chancellor, who would have directed all these departments and held joint discussions. these matters. However, when I learned from factory heads or from my deputies, I did everything to remove the cause for complaints.
THE PRESIDENT: Shall we break off now?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Any time you say, sir, (A recess was taken until 1400 hours, the same day.)
(The hearing reconvened at 1400 hours, 21 June 1946.)
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal wish to hear from defendants' counsel what arrangements they have found it possible to make with reference to the apportionment of time for their speeches.
DR. NELTE: First of all, I should like to make it clear with reference to this question that the defendants' counsel with whom the Tribunal had spoken during an earlier closed session, having discussed the question of pleadings, have not made general reports to the remainder of the defendants' counsel since they had been under the impression that the Tribunal would not impose any limitation upon the defense. I personally, when I raised my objections, had no knowledge of this discussion and, as I may explain on behalf of my colleagues who have spoken to you earlier, that was the situation at the time. dant's counsel for the individual defendants have now discussed the resolution announced on the 14th of June 1946 and I am now submitting to the Tribunal the outcome of the discussion in connection with which I shall have to make certain limitations with reference to certain individual colleagues of mine who are partly not present and partly with reference to the estimate of time are of a different opinion.
The defendants' counsel are of the opinion that the decision regarding the shaping and length of their cases should entirely be left to the sense of duty of the individual defendants' counsel in this unusual trial, apart from the generally recognized rights and privileges of the Tribunal with regard to the steering of the procedure and the prevention of any possible misuse of the freedom of speech. Furthermore, the defendants' counsel are of the opinion that based on this principle consideration and also based on the usual practice before International Tribunals, it should be understood and approved by the Tribunal if the defense consider that they have objections to the prohylactic limitation of the freedom of speech since a misuse must not be taken as a foregone conclusion, this principal attitude of ours does not of course exclude the preparedness on the part of the defense, that the directive of the Tribunal and the wishes of the Tribunal should be obeyed as far as that can be carried with the proper conception of the defense of their duties.
Under this consideration, the individual defendants' counsel had been asked to make their own estimates of the duration of their probable verbal case which they wish to state. The outcome of these estimates is as follows, or rather, has shown that with due respect to the first discipline on the part of the defendants' counsel and with consideration of the wishes of the High Tribunal, a total duration of approximately twenty full days must be expected.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Nelte, the Tribunal asked Defense Counsel for an apportionment of the fourteen days between them.
DR. NELTE: I believe, Mr. President, that the statement which I have just made should express that it is apparently impossible that that principle can be accepted. If the Tribunal considers that the stated number of days is the indisputable period of time, then the entire defense will, of course, submit to that decision. But so far as I can see, it will be quite impossible that, under such circumstances, an agreement amongst the Defense Counsel could be brought about, and considerable danger therefore exists that the Counsel who come later with their cases will be under pressure of tier.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think the Tribunal probably fully understands that you and your brothern consider that fourteen days is too short, but, as I say, what the Tribunal asked for was an apportionment of the time, and there is nothing in what you have said to indicate that you have made any apportionment at all, either of the fourteen days or of the twenty days which you propose.
DR. NELTE: The peiod of twenty days was arrived at because the individual defendants' counsel have stated the duration of their cases. It would, therefore, be perfectly possible for us to say that if the Tribunal would approve of the length of twenty days, then the expected length of the individual cases could be stated by us; but it is impossible, in practice, to do this if the total duration of time for the defense is fourteen days. You can rest assured, Mr. President, that we have all conscientiously gone into the question and that we have reflected on the manner in which the individual subjects can be divided up between the individual defendants' counsel; but the total duration of about twenty days appears to us, without wanting to quote a maximum or minimum in this connection, to be absolutely essential for apportionment. It is perfectly possible, Mr. President -
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Nelte, as I have what the Tribunal wanted to know was the apportionment, and presumably you have some apportionment which adds up to the twenty days which you say is required, and the Tribunal would like, if you have such an apportionment, that you should let them see the apportionment, or if you have no such apportionment, then they would wish to hear from each individual counsel how long he thinks he is going to take. If you lave got a list, it seems to the Tribunal that you could hand it in.
DR. NELTE: This information is available and it will be handed to the Tribunal. Estimates are available, but certain of my colleagues have stated that these estimates of theirs are only applicable under the reservation that only a certain number of days were to be granted. That attitude adopted, of which I have said earlier that it is diverse in a certain respect from, mine, but it was our undivided opinion that the decision of the Tribunal was only a suggestion and not a maximum which could be apportioned. I hope, Mr. President, that the words which I have just spoken are to be understood similarly, namely, that the Tribunal will still consider whether the propsed period of fourteen days could not correspondingly be extended to the time which we consider necessary.
THE PRESIDENT: What the Tribunal wants is an apportionment of the time as between the various counsel. What is what they asked for, and that is what they want; and either we would ask you to give it to us in writing now, or we would ask you, each one of you, to state how long you anticipate you will take in your speech.
DR. NELTE: I think that I an speaking on behalf of my colleagues when I say that we shall submit to the Tribunal in writing what out estimates are.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Nelte, the Tribunal feels that it would like to have the apportionment now. It gave notice before, yesterday I think it was, that they were wishing to hear defendants' counsel upon the question of the apportionment this afternoon at 2;00 o'clock, and they would, therefore, like to have that apportionment now.
DR. NELTE: In that case, I can only ask that you should hear each individual defendant's counsel, since, naturally I can not by memory tell you how each individual has made his estimate.
THE PRESIDENT: It need not be written. It was to be written down, but if you haven't got it written down, no doubt you can't remember it. Perhaps you had better give us what you would take.
DR. NELTE: I have proposed seven hours. Colleague Horn, for Ribbentrop, just tells me six hours.
THE PRESIDENT: He will take each counsel in turn, if you please.
Yes, Dr. Stahmer.
DR. STAHMER: Seven hours.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter.
DR. HORN: May I speak on behalf of Dr. Siemers and Dr. Kranzbuehler, and ask to allot each of them eight hours.
DR. SAUTER: For the case of Funk, six hours, and for the case of von Schirach, six hours.
DR. SERVATIUS: Servatius; for Sauckel, five hours.
THE PRESIDENT: I can't write as quickly as all that. The was it that Dr. Horn wished to represent?
DR. HORN: Dr. Siemers and Dr. Kranzbuehler, eight hours each.
DR. KAUFMANN; for Kaltenbrunner, approximately four to five hours.
DR. MARX: Dr. Marx; for Streicher, four hours.
DR. SEIDL: Dr. Seidl; for Hess and Frank together, eleven hours.
DR. PANNENBECKER: Dr. Pannenbecker; for Fritsche, five hours. wants three hours for Bormann. Dr. Bergold isn't present, but I do remember that on the list it said three hours.
DR. DIX: Dr. Dix; for Schacht. We will need five hours.
DR. EXNER: Dr. Exner; for Jodl, five hours.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Dr. Kubuschok; for Papen, approximately five hours.
DR. STEINBAUER: Dr. Steinbauer; for Dr. Seyss-Inquart, five hours.
DR. FLAECHSNER: Dr. Flaechsner; for Speer, four hours.
INTERPRETER: Perhaps, my Lord, of counsel would continue and speak loudly I could continue giving you the figures until Channel 1 is fixed.
PRESIDENT: If you would go on giving the figures, we'll continue.
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN (Vounsel for Von Neurath): For myself, Mr. President, I shall require approximately 8 hours. For Professor Jahrreiss, who will speak in all cases, and will treat considerably longer subjects, 4 hours, something which has been approved by the Tribunal, namely that he would treat the entire complex from the point of view of International Law.
DR. SEIDL: The Defense Counsel for the Defendant Rosenberg has stated that he would require 8 hours.
DR. FRITZ (Counsel for Fritsche): For Herr Fritsche, will you please take into consideration that the case Fritsche has not yet been presented and with that limitation, I think I should have sufficient time with approximately 4 hours.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, Dr. Nelte, the Tribunal would like to know first of all whether counsel proposes to write down and then read their speeches. Can you hear what I am saying?
DR. NELTE: Yes, I can. As far as I have been informed, all defense counsels will first of all write down their case. Whether they will actually read every work of these written statements or whether they will only present parts of it and use other parts which they have not written down, or whether they will submit them and not read them has not yet been ascertained.
THE PRESIDENT: Have they considered whether they will submit them for translation because as the Tribunal has already pointed out, it would be much more convenient for the members of the Tribunal who do not read German to have a translation before them. It would not only greatly assist the Tribunal, but the defendants themselves if they do that.
DR. NELTE: This question has not yet been decided upon. It has been discussed in our conferences, but up to now no final result has yet been achieved. We believe that the time, which is now pressing very much, may possibly make it impossible that this script should be translated into all 4 languages.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal of course understands that the speeches, if they are submitted for translation, won't be communicated to anybody until the speech is actually made.
They won't be given beforehand either to the Tribunal or the Prosecution so that the speech will remain entirely secret until it is made, and the second thing is that of course, a great number of the speeches will be delayed by the counsel who precede them and therefore, there will be very considerable time during either the 14 days or a longer period if such a longer period is given, which will enable the speeches to be translated, and Defense counsel will appreciate that if their speeches are written down they can tell exactly how long they will take to deliver them, or almost exactly. And there is one other thing I want to bring to their attention. which are common to them all, and there ought to be an opportunity for counsel to divide up the subjects to some extent between them and not have each one dealing with subjects which have been dealt with already, any more than they should be dealt with in evidence over and over again, and I don't know whether counsel for defense has considered this. Anyway, the Tribunal hopes that they will adjust their minds to these three matters. the Tribunal; secondly, whether they will be able to ascertain the time, and thirdly, whether they cannot apportion the subjects to some extent among them so that we shan't have to listen to the same subjects over and over again.
I don't know whether the Prosecution would wish to say anything. The Tribunal has said, in the order which we made in reference to this question of limitation of time, that the Prosecution should only take three days. Perhaps it would be better to hear from the Prosecution whether that is an agreeable estimate.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: Yes, My Lord, Prosecution do not ask for any more than 3 days. It might considerably be little less, but no more.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I should like, your Honor, to call your attention to this. I hope it isn't expected that we are expected to mimeograph, or to have mimeographed, our speeches of 20 days. We simply cannot be put under that sort of consideration.
A citizen of the United States in the highest court of the land is expected to argue his case in one hour, and we have already been highly criticized for the length of time that we have taken. This is not a sensible amount of time to give to this case, and I must protest against being expected to mimeograph 20 days of speeches. It really isn't possible.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would like to know whether the Prosecution intend to let us have copies of their speeches at the time that they are delivered?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: As far as the speeches of the Attorney General are concerned, we certainly did expect to give the Tribunal copies of the speech.
THE PRESIDENT: And translations?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: Yes, that would be done. I just wanted to point out, I think it was Dr. Nelte who said that it would take a long time to translate these speeches. As far as that goes, we had the problem of translating 76 days of speeches and that was done in 1 day by our own translators. Perhaps Dr. Nelte was a little pessimistic about that part of the problem.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will consider the matter.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I think perhaps, Your Honor, the photographs which were submitted in evidence are not quite clear if the record does not show the description of them. I shall read it briefly. It is a description of torture cabinets which were used in the foreign workers camp in the grounds of No. 4 Armour Shop, and those of the dirty neglected Russian Comp, were shown to us and we depose the following on oath:
"Photograph 'A' shows an iron cupboard which was specially manufactured by the firm of Krupp to torture Russian civilian workers to an extent that cannot be possibly described by words.
Men and women were often locked into a compartment of the cupboard, in which hardly any man could stand up, for long periods. The measurements of this compartment are height 1.52 meters, breadth and depth 40 to 50 centimeters each. Frequently even two people were kicked and pressed into one compartment.
"Photograph "B" shows the same cupboard as it looks when it is locked.
"Photograph "C' shows the cupboard open.
"In photograph 'D' we wee the camp that was selected by the Krupp Directorate to serve as living quarters for the Russian civilian workers. The individual rooms were 2 to 2.5 meters wide, 5 meters long, and 2 meters high. In each room up to 16 persons were accommodated in double tier beds".
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Justice Jackson, one moment. I think you ought to read the last three lines of the second paragraph, beginning, "At the top of the cupboard."
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: "At the top of the cupboard, there are a few sievelike air holes, through which cold water was poured on the unfortunate victims during the ice-cold winter."
THE PRESIDENT: I think you should read the last three lines of the penultimate paragraph in view of what the defendant said about the evidence.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: "We are enclosing two letters which Camp Commandant Lowenkamp had smuggled out of prison in order to induce the undersigned Hoffer to give evidence favorable for him."
And perhaps I should read the last:
"The undersigned, Dahm, personally saw how three Russian civilian workers were locked into the cupboard, two in one compartment, after they had first been beaten on New Year's night 1945. Two of the Russians had to stay the whole of New Years' night locked into the cupboard, and cold water waspoured over them as well." different statements and depositions relating to the investigation of this camp. I am not suggesting offering them, because I think they would be cumulative, and I shall be satisfied with one more, D-313, which would become Exhibit 901, which is a statement by a doctor.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Justice Jackson, was this camp that you are referring to a concentration camp?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, it was, as I understand it, a prisoner of war camp and a labor camp. There were labor camps and prisoner ofwar camps at Essen. I had not understood that it was a concentration camp, but I admit the distinction is a little thin at times.
The document reads:
"I, the undersigned, Dr APOLINARY GOTOWICKI, a doctor in the Polish army, was taken prisoner by the Germans on 3 Jan 1941 and remained as such until the entry of the Americans. I gave medical attention to the Russian, Polish and French prisoners of war., who were forced to work in various places of Krupps factories.
I personally visited the Russian P.W. camp in the Raumastrasse in Essen, which contained about 1800 men. There was a big hall in the camp which could house about 200 men comfortably in which 300 to 400 men were thrown together in such a catastrophic manner that no medical treatment was possible. The floor was cement and thepailliasses on which the people slept were full of lice and bugs. Even on cold days, the room was never heated and it seemed to me as a doctor, unworthy of human beings that people should find themselves in such a position. It was impossible to keep the place clean because of the overcrowding of these men who had hardly room to move about normally. Every day, at least 10 people were brought to me whose bodies were covered with bruises on account of the continual beatings with rubber tubes, steel switches or sticks. The people were often writhing with agony and it was impossible for me to give them even a little medical aid. In spite of the fact that I protested, made complaints and was often interviewed, it was impossible for me to protect the people or see that they got a day off from work. It was difficult for me to watch how such suffering people could be dragged to do heavy work. I visited personally, and myself in danger, gentlemen of the Krupp Administration as well as gentlemen from the Krupp Directorate to try to gethelp. It was strictly forbidden as the camp wasunder the direction of the SS and Gestapo, and according to well known directives, I had to keep silent, otherwise I could have been sent to a concentration camp. I have brought my own bread innumerable times in order to give it to the prisoners as far as it was possible, although bread was scarce enough for me. From the beginning in 1941 conditions did not get better but worse. The food consisted of watery soup which was dirty and sandy and often the prisoners of war had to eat cabbage which was bad and stank. I could notice people daily who on account of hungeror ill-treatment, were slowly dying. Dead people often lay for 2 or 3 days on the beds until their bodies stank so badly that fellow prisoners took them outside and buried them somewhere. The dishes out of which they ate were also used as toilets because they were too tired or too weak from hunger to get up and go outside. At 3 o'clock, they were wakened. The same dishes were then used to wash in and later for eating out of. This matter was generally known. In spite of this it was impossible for me to get even elementary help or facilities, in order to get rid of these epidemics, illnesses or cases of starvation.
There can be no mention of medical aid, for the prisoners. I never received any medical supplies myself. In 1941, I alone had to look after these people from a medical point of view, but is is quite understandable that it was impossible for me, as the only one, to look after all these people and apart from that I had scarcely any medical supplies. I could not think what to do with a numberof 1800 people who came to me daily crying and complaining. I myself often collapsed daily and in spite of this I had to takeeverything upon myself and watch how people perished and died. A report was never made as to how the prisoners of war died.
"I have seen with my own eyes, the prisoners coming back from Krupps and how they collapsed on the march and had to be wheeled back on barrows or carried by their comrades. It was in such a manner thatthe people came back to the camp. The work which they had to perform was very heavy and dangerous and many cases happened where people had cut their fingers, hands or legs. These accidents were very serious and the people came to me and asked me for medical help. But it wasn't even possible for me to keep them from work for a day or two, although I had been to the Krupp directorate and asked for permission to do so. At the end of 1941, two people died daily and in 1942 the deaths increased to three and four per day.
I was under Dr. MAY and I was often successful in getting him to come to the camp to see the terrible conditions and listen to the complaints, but it was not even possible forhim to get medical aid from the Medical Department of the Wehrmacht or Krupps, or to get better conditions, treatment or food. I was a witness during the conversation with some Russian women who told me personally that they were employed in Krupps factory and that they were beaten daily in the most bestial manner. The food consisted of watery soup which was dirty and unedible and its terrible smell could be noticed from a distance. The clothing was ragged and torn and on their feet they had rags and wooden shoes. Their treatment, as far as I could make out, was the same as that of the prisoners of war. Beating was theorder of the day. The conditions lasted for years, fromthe very beginning until the day the American troops entered. The people lived in great anxiety and it was dangerous for them to describe to anyone anywhere these conditions which reigned in their camps.