A Thousands?
Q Well, let us say hundreds, if you like. That is the figure defendant Goeringagreed to, so let us take as the inside figure--hundreds of Social Democrats and Communists. Minister Severing put it at fifteen hundred of each; didn't you knew that?
A I recall very exactly from the defendant Goering; he came to the cabinet one day after the headquarters of the Communist party, the Liebknecht house, had been taken by the police. He told the cabinet that he had found a great number of documents which showed to what extent the Communists and other elements were trying to disturb public order and overthrow thenew government.
Q Now will you answer my questions. Didn't you know that hundreds of Social Democrats and Communists had been put in concentration camps?
A No, I didn't knew there were hundreds. I knew that individual leaders had been thrown into concentration camps. Amnesty Decree of the 21st of March was only the sort of thing that had happened before; that was a concretely one-sided amnesty, wasn't it? It was an amnesty to those who had fought in the national revolution, that is, an amnesty for Nazis. It wasn't an amnesty for Communists or Social Democrats or anyone who had been on the other side, was it?
A Quite true, yes. It was an amnesty for the people who had worked against the formation of the government.
Q Now, you knew these things. Well, in your speech at Essen, let us just look at it again, your own account of what youhave done. It is page 54 of document book 11. You just told me that it was true what you have said in that speech--this was in November--what you had tried to support with all your strength the work of the National Socialist movement and its leader and if you will notice, you say later on thatyou were "selected by a gracious fate to put the hand of our Chancellor and Fuehrer into the hand of our beloved Fieldmarshal." By November, 1933; you must have had a very good idea about the way that Hitler, your Chancellor and Fuehrer, was dealing with those who were politically opposed to him. Why were you--you told us your point of view-- why were you saying how proud you were to have supported with all your strength the work of the National Socialist party unless you agreed with it?
opposed to the best of our power within the cabinet. We knew if them, it is true; I personally in many speeches which have not been submitted to the Court here, I referred to them, but as long as this coalition pact was in existence I had to hope that we would put our views through and only for this reason did I assure Hitler of my loyalty so that he, from his point, should be loyal toward us.
Q I just give you the last words. Here, you are appealing in a careful and special appeal to your Catholic fellow citizens and y - say "Let us in this hour say to the Fuehrer of the new Germany that we believe in him and his work." Why did you talk like that when you must have known in November, 1933, that his program was to smash opposition, smash his political opponents, smash the trade unions and put himself in complete control of Germany? Why were you making speeches like that unless you believed and agreed with everything Hitler wanted to do?
A I will tell you. You know that in July of last year, I concluded the concordat and that I received the assurances of Hitler to make religious peace the basis of his policy. The mere the conservative element could be brought into the government the better it could be for the fulfillment of my program.
Q If that is yew answer, we will pass to another point. I think you said today or you said a few moments ago that you be&an to realize what sort of team you were running with when you made the Marburg speech on the 17th of June. Now, please don't think I am being offensive -
THE PRESIDENT: The Russian translation is coding through on the same line, and the French. We will adjourn now.
(A recess was taken)
DR. VON LUEDINGHAUSEN (Counsel for the defendant von Neurath): Mr. President, may I request from the Tribunal that tomorrow and the day after tomorrow my client be absent from the session so that he may complete his own defense?
THE PRESIDENT: Certainly. BY SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: your Marburg speech. Was one of your associates a gentleman called Jung?
Q And -- believe me I don't mean it in any offensive way -- Herr Jung had helped you considerably with the composition of the Marburg speech, had he not?
A Mr. Jung quite frequently produced sketches for speeches of mine, and the same applies to the Marburg speech.
Q Yes. He was shot after the 30th of June, wasn't he? whose political views -- I think you would call him a progressive conservative you had great respect and agreement, isn't that so?
Q You have told us about Herr von Bose. He was shot. Herr von Chirski was arrested by two different lots of people, wasn't he, after this occasion?
Q Was Herr von Savigne arrested?
A I can't quite remember. I don't think so.
Q Well, in all -- it doesn't matter about the names -- there were two members of your staff who were shot, and three were arrested, were they not?
A One member of my staff was shot, and two were arrested. Mr. Jung was not a member of my staff. associate of yours. Now -
A (Interposing): He was an associate who, as I said, quite often assisted me when I was very busy by making sketches for speeches, and with whom I exchanged my conservative ideas.
his wife were also shot, and -- I think my recollection is right -- that General von Groenau was shot too, wasn't he? days, and I think your files were taken, were they not?
Q Did this performance shake your faith in the regime?
A My belief in what? I beg your pardon.
Q Did this performance shake your faith in the regime and in Hitler?
A Quite. I explained to the Tribunal yesterday that by this action the pact of the 30th of January had been broken. affirmed your offer on the 2nd of July.
QQuite right; my mistake. Now, do you tell the Tribunal that you reaffirmed your offer of resignation because you had lost your faith in the regime or because of the insult to your own pride because of your being arrested and having your files taken and your secretaries shot? against my own person and my staff, and secondly because by this action the pact of the 30th of January had been broken by Hitler; also because any political cooperation with him had become impossible for me.
Q I see. Well, just look at Document 714, will you.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: My Lord, this will be GB-497. BY SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: you say:
"Yesterday at 10 in the morning I had the honor of informing you verbally of my attitude towards the events of the last days, after my stretch in police custody had been suspended on the 2nd at 9:00 o'clock.
At this time I pointed out to you that I could not possibly take my seat in the Cabinet until my honor and that of my officials had been restored.
"On the 30th of June, five of my co-workers were arrested; one of them was shot. My files have been confiscated, my office sealed, and my private secretary also arrested. This is still the position at the moment.
"A procedure of this kind against the second highest official of the state could only be justified if he and his officials were guilty of complicity in the plot against Fuehrer and state.
"It is in the interests not only of protecting my personal honor, but even more so of protecting the authority and cleanliness of the state that either the guilt should be proved at once or honor restored."
Then you say:
"The events have become known abroad, and for that reason not a single hour should be lost." should be put in the hands of the Prosecutor General or "a communique be published stating that the investigation had provided no evidence of any complicity in the plot, my honor and that of my officials being thus restored.
"If you do not wish to embark upon the latter path, my remaining in the cabinet any longer would be an impossibility."
"I had placed my position at your disposal already on the 18th and 19th of June. I can ask for my dismissal with an even lighter heart today since it appears that the work mutually commenced by us on the 30th of January 1933 now appears to be secured against further revolts. At the same time, I request to be relieved of my position as Commissioner for the Saar.
"I take it that you will make your decision regarding the restoration of my honor within the next few hours.
"I remain loyally devoted to you and to your work for our Germany." appeared to be secured against further revolts?
A I am afraid I didn't understand. work of Hitler now appeared to be secured against further revolt? which had been suppressed. This letter was written a day after I was released from custody, and I had the feeling there had been a revolution and now it was settled. killed?
A I don't think I know that at that moment, no.
Q You just knew that Herr von Bose had been shot?
Q And you knew there wasn't the slightest reason on earth for General von Schleicher, Jung, and Bose being shot, didn't you?
A No, I didn't know the reason. As far as I remember -
Q (Interposing): No, you knew that there was no reason, didn't you? von Bose had been involved in a matter of giving information to the foreign press.
Q I see. So that we may take it that you were speaking with your head and your heart, and with complete confidence and sincerity when you said: "I remain loyally devoted to you and to your work for our Germany," on the 4th of July 1934, is that right?
A Yes. I had to hope that his further work wouldn't lead to any disadvantages for Germany.
Q You needn't go on with the letters. You may take it that I shall deal with them in time, so don't read the others in advance.
As a result of that, you saw Hitler on that day, did you not?
Would you mind just answering my questions. I assure you I will take you through these letters.
You saw Hitler on that day?
Q Yes, but- you saw him after this letter, and didn't you agree with Hitler to remain vice Chancellor until September and that you would then take employment under the Foreign Office?
A I don't believe that, no.
Q Well, if you don't believe that, look at the next letter which is D-715, which becomes GB-496.
This is a letter of the 10th of July, and it begins:
"Our agreement of the 4th of July" -- which is the date of the last letter -- "to the effect that I was to retain my position as Vice Chancellor until September and was then to be employed in the foreign service, was based between us on the following condition: The immediate and complete restoration of my authority and honor, so as to enable to remain in the service of the Reich in whatever capacity."
Now, do you tell the Tribunal that on the 10th of July you didn't know that General von Schleicher and his wife had been killed and General von Groenau had been killed and that Jung as well as Bose had been murdered? You say you didn't know on the 10th of July?
A. I am not denying that by any means, that is that I knew, but as I have already told the Tribunal I had demanded that an investigation regarding all these matters should be conducted so that we might know the reasons for them. self-defense so that all these matters at the time were not at all clear.
Q. But it is correct, of course, as you write here, that you had agreed with Hitler to carry on as vice-chancellor until September and then to be employed in the Foreign Service on this condition, is that right ?
A. No, that is not correct.
Q. It is your own letter you know.
A. Yes, but this letter was written because Hitler had promised me that investigation and a clearing up of the matter and these points which would enable me a restoration of my honor and a clearing up of all the crimes so that I might remain in the service of the Reich but that was never done.
Q. Von Bose and Jung had been working with you in close cooperation and if anyone knew whether they were innocent men or not it was you. Why did you, with that knowledge, agree with Hitler to carry on as Vice-Chancellor and then to enter the Foreign Service ?
A. I have stated that I had resigned. The sentence dealing with my possibly remaining in office is only a supposition. not exercised any government activities.
Q. Just look at the next words in this letter.
"To this end I submitted to you on the 5th of July my proposals for an official statement explaining why the arrest of several officials of my staff had taken place and how von Bose had lost his life and averring the non-participation of all the members of my staff in the SA revolt. This statement requested by me was only partially passed by you and published inasmuch as the release and innocence of von Tschirschky, von Savigny and of my private secretary, Miss Stotzingen, were announced." he would not pass it, he would not clear the people who were working closely with you and yet you had agreed with him, you had agreed with him to continue as Vice-Chancellor and to go into the Foreign Service.
You see what I am putting to you ? I am putting to you quite clearly being restored. You were prepared to serve these murderers so long as your own dignity was put right.
A. Mr. Prosecutor, a better proof for my intentions to separate myself from the regime then my actual resignation cannot exist. If everything had been made clear, if their innocence had been made clear under which my employees and officials were arrested and murdered, then perhaps the possibility of my remaining in the service might exist but not as Vice-Chancellor which position I had resigned from. But you can see from this letter that Hitler made no attempt to give such a declaration.
Q. And as a result of his making no such attempts you wrote an even more fullsome statement of your admiration for his actions. Look at number 716 which will become GB-499.
"Dear Reich Chancellor:
"I thought for a long time over our conversation of yesterday's date, and the statements made to me and in particular what you told me about your intentions regarding your Reichstag speech -- have occupired me constantly in view of the enormous importance of the speech and its special effect on Germany's position in the sphere of foreign politics also. I therefore feel the urge, in fact I feel it to be my duty, to let you know my opinion, as I have frequently done formerly on other occasions.
"You explained to me yesterday that you intend to publicly accept responsibility for everything that happened, including what happened outside the crushing of the SA revolt. Allow me to say how manly and humanly great of you I think this is. The crushing of the revolt and your courageous and firm intervention have met with nothing but recognition throughout the entire world.
"What are, however, at the moment a burden on Germany are solely those events that took place outside your own initiative and without any immediate connection with the revolt, such as the examples you yourself gave me. This has been given expression particularly in the British and American press."
Then, missing out three paragraphs you say:
"Allow me to assure you once again that my person or my position, except for the restoration of my personal honor, do not matter at all, and are only at issue insofar as the events in the Vice-Chancellory on the 30th of June are being regarded by the public as being the consequence of a breach between you and me."
Then, after some more of the same you finish up:
"With unchanged admiration and loyalty --." dignity cleared it did not matter whether your collaborators were shot or the government of which you had been a member had adopted murder as an instrument of policy ? These things did not matter to you so long as you kept your own dignity and the chance of a future job in the Foreign Service.
A. No.
Q. Well, why did you write stuff like that to the head of a gang of murderers who had murdered your collaborators ? Why did you wirte to him:
"The crushing of the revolt and your courageous and firm intervention have met with nothing but recognition throughout the entire world."
Why did you write it ?
A. Because at that moment it was my opinion that in fact there had been a revolt and that Hitler had stopped it; that on the other hand numerous people had been murdered, members of my own office, friends. That was something about which Hitler was to ascertain the truth. that this was an excellent act on his part but not in the sense as was done afterwards by Hitler, by his stating before the Reichstag that these events were right. I understood it to mean that if he himself would assume responsibility for these events that he would clear them to the world, not through a law however and state that they were right without any investigation.
Q. Would you tell the Tribunal that on the 12th of July you thought there was any doubt or any possibility that your friend Jung could be guilty of treason against the Reich or of a plot against Hitler ? Did you believe that for an instant ?
A. Mr. Hitler explained to me at that time that the shooting of Bose was first of all -
Q. No, I asked first of all about yourself. I asked did you believe for a moment that Jung had been guilty of treason against the Reich or of a plot against Hitler ?
A. No, certainly not.
Q. Well now, you knew very well that Hitler was worried from the point of view of foreign opinion as to publicity being given to the effect of a break between you and him, did you not ? of the German Reich and, as you have told us, a Catholic of old family with great position amongst the Catholic population -- the support of someone of that Kind would be of great value to him after this blood purge which had cause foreign opinion to be very disturbed, did you not ? You knew that ?
A. No, it appears to me from these letters that I continually requested Herr Hitler to ascertain why and for what reasons these actions were taken against my associates and myself. I want to tell this to the world.
Q. Her von Papen, if you, as an ex-Chancellor of the Reich and, as you said yourself, one of the leading Catholic layman of Germany, an ex-officer of the Imperial Army, had said at that time -- "I am not going to be associated with murder, cold-blooded murder as an instrument of policy" -- you migth at some risk to yourself have brought down the whole of this rotten regime, might you not ?
A. That is possible but had I said it publicly then quite probably I would have disappeared somewhere just as my associates did. And apart from that, the world knew from my resignation that I did not wish to identify myself with this affair.
Q. Just let us see what you were writing. If you look at 717 which will become GB-500, that emphasizes the importance that Hitler was attaching to your adherence. If you will look at the second paragraph -- I will read it, it is quite short. You say:
"I hope you have received my letter of yesterday's date and that you received it in the spirit in which it was intended.
"Today I ask you, for *---*al reasons, to excuse me from participating in the session of the Reichs *---* Yesterday you were indeed of the opinion that my staying away might create the impression that there are we disagreement between us. But this impression can surely not exist, if, during your speech, You refer to the case of the Vice-Chancellory in the form in which you promised me you would.
"During all these days I have behaved with the greatest possible reserve towards the outside and have shown self as little as possible, and you will surely understand my not wanting to appear in public again until every shadow has been removed from me.
"I have also asked the chairman of the Party representative in the Reichstag to excuse my staying away."
Who is the chairman of the Party representative ? Is that the chairman of the Nazi Party representative ?
A No, I believe the Chairman of the Party was Dr. Frick.
Q It was the Government Party, was it?
A Yes. The letter shows that I requested Hitler to make a statement before the Reichstag justifying it, dealing with the matters that had been taken against my associates. from your loyalty towards him; that is what you wanted, wasn't it will become GB 501, and see what you say the next day.
"Dear Chancellor: After you last night gave the nation and the world your great account of the internal developments which led up to 30 June, I feel the need to shake your hand, as I did on 30 January 1933, and to thank you for all you have given anew to the German nation, by crushing the intended second revolution and by announcing irrevocable and statesmanlike principles. painful, tragic circumstances have prevented me for the first time since 30 January from appearing at your side. You yourself excused me and showed understanding for the fact that a ViceChancellor cannot take his seat on the Ministerial Bench as long as he finds himself subjected to special treatment. (My confiscated files have still not been returned to me, in spite of Goering's and your own orders.)
"Your statements have clearly shown that any suspicion of a connection between my person and the treasonable goings-on was an intentional libel and calumniation. I thank you for stating this." the penultimate paragraph you say, "I should, therefore, be grateful if you could on some occasion point out positively that up to today--" that was 14 July-"up to today I have loyally stood by and fought for yourself, your leadership, and your work for Germany."
that all that you wanted was your loyalty to the regime to be made clear to the world? It was not worrying you at all that von Schleicher and his wife and von Bose and Jung and all these other people had been murdered by the government of the Reich; otherwise, why did you write a letter like that? cause I was still being accused of agreeing with the attempts on the lives of Goebbels and Goering and various other conspiracies. That is the reason why I am trying to have Chancellor Hitler state that I was not involved in this conspiracy against him during the various actions that occurred during the revolt. of course, to begin with, I am dealing in this letter with my position and the position of my associates. The re-establishment of Schleicher's honor was a task for the army, not for me. But at the moment, you see, what I am putting to you is this: That even after you knew that your own friends had been murdered, to say nothing of your old colleagues, your own friends had been murdered, you again and again protest your loyalty and the fact that you had always worked and cooperated with Hitler in all his work. Was that honest? Is want is contained in these letters honest, or do you say they were just lies in order to protect yourself? against me, the attempted murder by Himmler, the fact that I was locked up, were all based upon the supposition that I had participated in a conspiracy against Hitler's government. It had to be made certain, first of all, that as long as I was a member of this government, I had acted loyally to them. That is the reason why I am asking for that statement to be made. tions, putting an interrogatory to Baron von Lersner? It is Number 2(a) on page 212 of Defense Document Book 3. Question 2(a) "Did the defendant von Papen, through the impregnation of conservative ideas, continue o hope to change Hitler's policy to hiw own way of thinking until the murders taking place on 30 June 1934 and Hitler's approval of them had convinced him that his efforts and his hopes had been in vain?
question.
THE PRESIDENT: Which question was that?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: 2(a) on page 212.
THE PRESIDENT: It is not in our copy.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I'm sorry-
THE PRESIDENT: 2(h).
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I'm so sorry. It is my fault entirely. It is rather blurred, and I thought it was an "a". I am greatly obliged. I read the question correctly as 2(a). BY SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE:
Q Does that correctly express your point of view-- "until the murders taking place on 30 June 1934 and Hitler's approval of them had convinced him--" That is you--that your efforts and your hopes had been in vain? Do you agree with that? It is an interrogatory put by your own learned Counsel. expressing this fulsome admiration of Hitler? rogatory is the question I wanted to put to the witness. The answers which I wished to have are these-It is one of the best examples of a leading question I have ever seen. You say that your interrogatory expresses your view, don't you?
A Yes. May I tell you something? This opinion was that with the 30th of June it became apparent that further cooperation with Hitler was no longer possible and that, therefore, the coali tion program which had been agreed upon between us had collapsed.
admiration and that you have cooperated:
"I remain loyally devoted to you and your work for Germany'' tions of your faith had been shaken, why do you write that you remain loyally devoted to Hitler's work for Germany? that, in spite of the collapse of the interior situation, Hitler would at least in foreign political sectors retain a reasonable policy. He was there; I could not remove him. We had to reckon with Hitler and his government. All these gentlemen continued to collaborate, and I was the only one who stopped out. All these letters with which you are trying to prove I am insincere or that I am not truthful, or, as you call it, that I am a liar and a deceiver, are not removing from world the fact that I resigned at that time.
Q And you took another job within eleven days. Eleven days after the last letter you had taken the job of representing this-- Well, I won't way a gang of murderers-- This government which had adopted murder as an instrument of policy, as plenipotentiary to Austria, within eleven days of your last letter.
Let's just see whether the murder motif did not come into that. Did you think that Hitler had been behind the July putsch in Austria which had resulted in the murder of Chancellor Dollfuss to lead the Austrian Nazi Party, was in connection with this affair, at any rate. That Herr Hitler himself could have approved this act, that was not known to me. been behind the July putsch? with the July putsch.
Q Did you think that Dr. Ried--if I have his name--yes Ried, the German Ambassador in Vienna--did you think that he had been behind the putsch?
A No, I know only that Dr. Ried had negotiated with the Austrian government.
Q You did not know that Hitler had been behind it. You deny that the German Foreign Office had been behind it. You did not know that Dr. Ried had been behind it. Just look at page 98 of document book 11-A. It is pages 79 and 80 of the German book.
This is a report, your report a year later. I am taking it slightly out of time because of this sentence where you recapitulate the facts, and if you will look at the paragraph--I think it is the last paragraph on page 79 in the German text.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, it is the second last paragraph on page 96 in the document book 11-A.
BY SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE:
Q "The hope that the personal conversation between the Fuehrer and Reich Chancellor and the Head of the Italian State at Stresa would lead to a settlement of German-Italian differences has been changed into the exact opposite by the threatening attitude taken up by Mussolini after the assassination of his friend Dollfuss and by the partial mobilization of Italian Corps on the Brenner. It became apparent that the attempt to re-establish normal and friendly relations by sending me to Vienna was not an easy task after what had happened previously. Mistrust of the forcible methods of the Austrian NSDAP"-now look at the next words -- "influenced, as it became more and more apparent from the past trials, by leading Reich-German personalities, was too strong. The impression caused by the terrorist methods and the death of the Bundeskauslor was too lasting in the widest circles." personalities to whom you were referring as supporting the putsch in July 1934 and the murder of Dollfuss? Who were they?
A By no means the former German Ambassador to Vienna, Mr. Ried, but, exclusively, Herr Habicht and the persons who were subordinate,who, at the time, were running the Austrian Nazi policy. methods of force employed by the Austrian Nazis had become more and more apparent from past trials, which is a knowledge which we acquired later, not at the time when I was given the task.
Q What I want to know is this. My question was: Who were the leading German personalities? You are not going to tell the Tribunal that Habicht, who was a laison man with the NSDAP in Austria, was a leading German Reich personality. Who were they? You are not going to say that Austrian Nazis were leading Reich German personalities. Who were they? Who were the leading German personalities that you were talking about?
A The leading personality was no doubt Herr Habicht. But this letter, Mr. Prosecutor, was written to tell Hitler: "Here, look; see what you have done."
on which they will judge your veracity, that by a leading Reich German personality you mean Herr Habicht, and you have no one else in mind although you use the plural? Is that what you want the Tribunal to understand? I don't know if you remember, defendant -- just think of it before you answer -but General Glaise-Horstenau could not even remember Habicht's name when he was giving his evidence.
You can't seriously mean that you meant a liaison agent with the Austrian NSDAP when you referred to prominent Reich German personalities. Surely you can do better than that.
A Mr. Prosecutor, Herr Habicht was not an agent. Herr Habicht had been nominated by Hitler as the leader of the Party in Austria, so I am surely justified in calling him a loading personality. If Herr Hitler himself had knowledge of these matters at that time, then when reading my letter he would have known what I was hinting at. would, he is only one man. Who were the others? You referred to Reich German personalities. Who were the other people who had been behind this putsch and this murder? have now passed, I can no longer remember which people I might have had in mind when I wrote that. At any rate,it was the purpose of the letter -- and you will appreciate this -- to tell Hitler that the methods which had been employed were doing more damage and were much more incredible than we knew at the time.
Q Well, I will accept it. We will go on from the point that you knew there were some unsepcified, prominent Reich German personalities who had been behind the murder of Dollfuss.
Now, advancing from that, let's consider what you say with regard to Mr. Messersmith. As I understand it, you deny -- if I may say so, with some vigor -- what Mr. Messersmith says regarding you. Therefore, let's just look at what he says and see how much of it you can seriously suggest is not true.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: I think I gave your Lordship the references yesterday. The reference to the affidavit, 1760-PS, is document book 11, and page 22 is the relevant part. The other affidavit, 2385-PS, is 11-A, page 24. This is rather shorter. BY SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: 1760-PS, and I think it begins on page 3. I want you to come to the bit in the affidavit -- and I am afraid I can't give you the exact German place -- where he deals with yourself.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: It is page 22, My Lord.
Q (Continuing) The paragraph begins: "That the policy of Anschluss remained wholly unchanged was confirmed to no by Franz von Papen when he arrived in Vienna as German Minister."
Have you got the passage, defendant?
A Page 12?
A Yes, page 12; I have it.
Q Look and see if you can find the paragraph that begins; "That the policy of Anschluss remained wholly unchanged was confirmed to me by Franz von Papen."
Can you find that? It is about the middle of the page.
Q How, if you look down a few lines in Mr. Messersmith's statement, he says:
"When I did call on von Papen in the German Legation he greeted me with: 'Now you are in my Legation and I can control the conversation.' In the baldest and most cynical manner he then proceeded to tell me that all of Southeastern Europe, to the borders of Turkey, was Germany's natural hinterland, and that he had been charged with the mission of facilitating German economic and political control over all this region for Germany. He blandly and directly said that getting control of Austria was to be the first step.