A Possibly during the year 1943 or possibly 19544, I don't remember.
A I paid no attention to this matter at all. I imagine through the conversation I put the question, "There is a gold deposit by you, that is, the SS, which we have at the Reichsbank. The gentlemen of the Board of Directors asked me whether the Reichsbank can utilize that." And he said yes. I spoke nothing about the jewelry or similar items or gold teeth or anything of that sort. The entire conversation referred very surely to this matter. bank independently of you and Himmler but by somebody in the SS, that you were not the original person who arranged the matter?
A That is right., It wasn't me.
Q Who made that arrangement?
A Possibly Mr. Puhl was the gentleman, or maybe somebody else from the Reichsbank directorate, with one of the gentlemen of the Economic Section in the SS. As far as I am concerned I was only informed by Mr. Puhl.
Q Do you know Mr. Pohl, p-o-h-l, of the SS?
A I imagine it was him. Mr. Pohl, p-o-h-l, never spoke to me.
Q You don't know the man?
A I have seen him but to me Mr. Pohl never spoke about these matters.
Q Where did you see him, in the Bank? gentlemen during a luncheon. I walked through the room and I saw him sitting there, but I personally never negotiated with Mr. Pohl about these questions. This is all news to me, this entire matter. court room not so long ago?
Q He said that he had exterminated between 2 1/2 and 3 million Jews and other people at Auschwitz. Before I go into anything further I want to point that testimony out to you. You recall that Himmler sent for him in June, 1941, and that Himmler told him the final solution of the Jewish problem was at hand, and that he was to conduct these exterminations. and found it wasn't big enough and he had to construct gas chambers for 2,000 people at a time, and so his extermination program could not have gotten under way until pretty late in 1941, and that Puhl says it was in 1942 that these shipments began to arrive in the SS?
A I know nothing about the date. I don't know when these things happened. I was never informed about them. This is all news to me that the Reichsbank was busy with these things to this extent. any time you had any knowledge of any kind about these transactions of the SS or their relations with the victims of the concentration camps, after seeing this file, after hearing Puhl's affidavit. You absolutely deny any knowledge at all. than that. That is your statement. Let me ask you something, Mr. Funk -
A Yes. That these things happened consistently is all news to me. and weep when you were being interrogated, you recall, and you did say you were a guilty man; and you gave an explanation of that yesterday. Iam just trying to establish the basis here for another question. You remember that happened?
Q And you said "I am a guilty man." You told us yesterday because you were upset a little bit in the general situation. I am suggesting to you that is it not a fact that this matter that we have been talking about since yesterday has been on your conscience all the time and that is really what was on your mind and it has been a shadow on you ever since you have been in custody?
And isn't it about time that you told this Tribunal the whole story? that is the truth. Let Mr. Puhl be responsible for what he put in the affidavit, I am responsible for what I state here on the witness stand. It is clear that Mr. Puhl is now trying to put the blame on me and make himself innocent. If he has done these things it is his guilt and his responsibility.
Q You are putting the blame on Puhl, aren't you?
A No. He is blaming me and I repudiate that.
Q The trouble is there was blood on this gold, wasn't there, and you have known it since 1942?
tions about two short documents. It will take but a short time. You told the Tribunal yesterday that you had nothing to do with any looting of these occupied countries. Do you know what the Roges Corporation was?
A Yes. I don't know what they did in detail. I only know it was an organization which had official purchases for various Reich departments. extorted funds extorted as occupation costs, didn't it?
Q I am not asking you whether you were for or against it. I am simply asking you is it not a fact that they did do it.
A I don't know.
Q All right. I had better take a look at Document 2263 P.S. which was written by one of your associates, Dr. Landfried, whom you have also asked as a witness here and from whom you have an interrogatory. This is a letter dated June 6, 1942, addressed to the Chief of the O.K.W. Administrative Office:
"In answer to my letter of 25 April 1942" and so on, "100 million Reichsmarks were put at my disposal from the Occupation Cost Fund by the Armed Forced High Command. This amount has already been disposed of except for 10 million Reichsmarks since the demands of the Roges Raw-Material Trading Company, Inc. Berlin, for the acquisition of merchandise on the black market were very heavy. In order not to permit a stoppage in the flow of purchases which were made in the interest of the prosecution of the war, further amounts from the Occupation Cost Fund must be made available. According to reports by Roges and by the Economic Bureau of the Military Commander in France, 30 million Reichsmarks in French Francs are needed every 10 days for such purchases, according to reports by Roges an increase of purchases is to be expected; therefore it will not be sufficient to have the remaining 100 million Reichsmarks ready - according to my letter of 25 April 1942. Above this, an additional amount of 100 million Reichsmarks will be necessary." It is very clear from that letter written by your associate Landfried that the Roges Corporation which was set up by your Ministry was engaged in black market operations in France with money extorted from the French through excessive occupation costs, isn't it?
A That the Roges made such purchases is true. These things have been spoken about at this Tribunal in connection with the orders and directives which the four-year plan gave for these purchases in this black market. However, these are purchases which were approved by the state organization. What we fought against were the purchases without limits in the black market. I already mentioned yesterday that I finally succeeded to get a directive from the Reichsmarshal that all purchases in the black market had to be stopped. Through these purchases naturally the merchandise was taken from the legal markets.
Q That was 1943. There wasn't much left in France on the black market or white market or any other market, was there, at that time? They were pretty well stripped at that time of the occupation as shown in the letters. production in France to a large extent. The information shows in 1943 that large amounts of newly produced goods were sent to Germany. you to say yesterday you didn't have much to do with that. Schlotterer was your man to work with Rosenberg, wasn't he?
A He worked in Russia, but only that; that he worked with the authorized Ministry for the East.
Q That is all I wanted to know. He was assigned. As he participated in the program of stripping Russia of materials and goods, which went on for some considerable period of time, you know about it.
A No, that is not true. This man did not have this task. These transactions were handled by the Economic Department, East. I think that was the name. Which was part of the Four Year Plan. These planned actions were not more than by the Minister Rosenberg.
Q It is a different sotry on different occasions. I think the best way is to read your interrogation. On the 19th of October, 1945, youwere interrogated here in Nuremberg. You were asked this question:
"And part of the plan was to take machines, materials and goods out of Russia and bring them in to Germany, was itnot?"
And you answered: "Most certainly; but I did not participate in that. But I consider it obvious, it was done."
The next question:
"Question: And you yourself participated in the discussions concerning these plans, and also your representative Dr. Schlotterer?
"Answer: I myself did not participate.
"Question: But you gave the power to act for you in that connection, to Dr. Schlotterer?
"Answer: Yes; Schlotterer represented me in economic questions in the Ministry of Rosenberg."
A No, that is not true. This testimony is completly confused, because Schlotterer was assigned to the Ministry of Rosenberg. He became head of the Economic Department there. Also, this testimony is not true to this extent, since we certainly sent more machines into Russia then we took out of Russia. When our group came to Russia everything had been destroyed, and in order to put the economy there in order, we had to send large amounts of machines and other goods to Russia. interrogated that I have just read to you? answers to the questions put to you by Major Ganz were incorrect. I posed another interrogation to you yesterday and you said that was incorrect. Now, a third man has interrogated you and you say that one is incorrect.
MR. DODD: I will submit that interrogation in evidence; it is not in form, to be submitted, but I would like to submit it a little later, when the Tribunal's permission.
THE PRESIDENT: You will inform us as to the number and so on?
MR. DODD: Yes, I will.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the other Prosecutors wish to crossexamine?
GENERAL RAGINSKY: After cross-examination by Mr. Dodd, I have only a few supplementary questions. BY GENERAL RAGINSKY: the time of the attack on Soviet Russia, had very limited authority and functions, and that you yourself were not a real minister. to the structure of the ministry of Economics.
Are you familiar with the book by Hans Quecke, entitled "The Reich ministry of Economics"? Do you know about this book? You don't?
Q Are you familiar with the name Hans Quecke?
A Hans Quecke?
Q Hans Quecke. You don't know?
Q Yes, Quecke. He was a counsellor in the Ministry of Economics.
Q Yes. And he, of course, knew about the structure of the Ministry of Economics and its functions?
A Certainly; he must have known about that.
GENERAL RAGINSKY: I present to the Tribunal, in evidence, USSR-451. I now present this book as an exhibit. BY GENERAL RAGINSKY: I shall quote a few paragraphs out of it. Will you please open it at page 65? The last paragraph on that page. Do you find the palace?
A I haven't found it yet. I can only was that it is a report.
Q The structure of the Ministry of Economics. On the 1st of July, 1941, the Deputy was a certain Dr. Landfried.
That is the same Landfried whose testimony was presented by the defense counsel.
Now, will you please follow the text? fundamental questions of supply and raw materials for the military economy.
A Just a moment; I can't find it.
Q It is in Part 2, Paragraph C. Did you find it? Part 2, Paragraph C, subparagraph 2.
Q I shall read this paragraph into the record. We haven't gotten to the foreign organizations as yet.
A Under "State" is Department B, Basis of the Raw material Exploitation, Defense Economics.
Q Military economics; that is what I am talking about. in border regions. not? The third main department was headed by Maier, was it not? Wasn't it headed by him?
Q And you had a special group which was called "Free economics from Jews". That was in 1941.
A Yes; that was the time we dealt with these matters; that is with the regulations. give your explanations subsequently.
The fourth main department was headed by Dr. Kluge, and this department was in charge of banks, currency policy, and questions pertaining to finance. Wasn't that a fact?
your own ministry. Let us not waste time on that.
The fifth main department was headed by von Jagwitz. Is that so? This department was in charge of special economic problems in different countries. The fifth department was in charge of military economic questions, and the same department was in charge of foreign payments. This department was also in charge of confiscation of deposits. Is that true?
A I don't understand. This is the export department here. They merely dealt with foreign exports.
Q One minute, please. Take the fifth department. Did you find the place? That department in your ministry was in charge of confiscation of deposits. department and the Auslands Organization? in charge of that?
A This can be explained in this manner. The Under State Secretary, von Jagwitz, who was the head of this main department, was also active in the export division. He had created a liaison office for himself in the Ministry to deal with economic questions which came to the Ministry-- and particularly to this department, which was the foreign department--and to deal with all these questions. This was only concerned around the person of von Jagwitz, who also came into the department for foreign countries., and he maintained a liaison there. department had special economic functions abroad, and it was cooperating and working with your Ministry, was it not? you had?
A That was not a department. The State Secretary, von Jagwitz, was, at the same time, active in the department for foreign policies; I don't know in what position. He was active in that department for foreign policies before he was taken into the Ministry. to the department for foreign policies. That is, frequently foreign economists came to visit the department for foreign policies of the Nazi Party, and these people came to State Secretary von Jagwitz and discussed their business with him and they reported to him what they had found in foreign countries. purely on the personal initiative of von Jagwitz, and that you, as a Minister, did not know anything at all about it?
A Oh, I knew about it. He did it with my knowledge, and I approved of it, too.
Q Listen to it first; listen to what I want to say, and then you will have a chance to answer.
The last paragraph of this states the following: "The State Main Department is in charge of the Foreign Political Department of the Reich Ministry of Economics. This same department is in charge of all relations between the Ministry and the foreign organizations of the Nazi Party." of von Jagwitz, as you mentioned, but this department really was a part of you Ministry.
Did you find the place?
A Yes. Mr. von Jagwitz had this liaison department, and it was limited to his person only. It was a liaison office for collaboration with the foreign political organization, which was a perfectly natural procedure in many cases. I don't see why this should be unusual or original.
GENERAL RAGINSKY: Mr. President, I would like to go to another particular part. Would it be convenient to have a short recess now? I have a few more questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well; the Tribunal will recess.
(A recess was taken) for Economy but you were not a full-fledged Plenipotentiary; Schacht occupied this position and you had only a secondary position in that respect.
Do you remember your article which was entitled "The Economic and Finance Mobilization?" Do you remember what you wrote in it?
Q We are not going to lose any time on that question. I remind you of it.
GENERAL RAGINSKY: I should like to submit to the Tribunal as evidence, USSR Exhibit 452, an article by Funk, which was published in the central monthly of the NSDAP and of the workers front, which was called "Der Schulungsbrief for 1939." BY GENERAL RAGINSKY:
Q You wrote then: "As the General Plenipotentiary for Economics, appointed by the Fuehrer, I think that it is my duty that during the war it should be secured, from the economic point of view, the fullpower of the people in Germany." Did you find this place?
Q Furthermore, you wrote: "The use of economy for great political aims of the Fuehrer demands not only a strong leadership of all the economic institutions but also from the political point of view, such as industry, agriculture, forestry, wood industry, foreign trade transport, using of manpower, the domination of wages and salaries, finance credits, and everything should be mobilized to such an extent that the entire economic potential should be put at the disposal of the Reich. In order to fulfil this task, I, as General Plenipotentiary for Economy, have at my disposal the corresponding authorities of the Reich." Do you agree that this is exactly how you wrote in 1939?
Q Is the question not quite clear to you?
THE PRESIDENT: He said yes.
THE WITNESS: Yes, I certainly wrote that. BY GENERAL RAGINSKY:
Q You know about the so-called "green Map" which was issued in July 1941.
It was read into the record here. These are directives for economics or, rather, directives for the plundering of the occupied territories in the East. How did you personally participate in the planning of these directives?
A I don't know that. I don't know it any mere whether or not I participated at all.
Q You don't remember it? How is it possible that such documents were planned without your participation, who was the President of the Reichsbank and General Plenipotentiary for Economy? Economy. I was never Plenipotentiary for the armament industry. The authorities of the Plenipotentiary for Economy shortly after the beginning of the war, were turned over to the Plenipotentiary for the Four Year Plan. That has been repeatedly confirmed and emphasized and what I personally at that time had to say concerning economy and did concerning economy in the Occupied Eastern Territories, was very very little. I don't remember it any more in detail but the administration of economy in the Occupied Territories was with the Leadership Staff East of the Plenipotentiary of the Four Year Plan and that office, of course, cooperated, with the Ministry Rosenberg for the Occupied Eastern Territories. Personally, I only remember that in the course of time, the Ministry of Economy sent individual business men, tradesme from Hamburg and Cologne and charged them to establish their activities, their individual economic activities in the Occupied Eastern Territories. developments you dealt with. That is what you called "development." Do you remember your utterances in Prague at the meeting of the South European Organization or should I remind you of it?
A No, no. During the interrogations, before this trial, my attention was called by General Alexander to the speech and I told him at that time already that there was a wrong newspaper report which I had rectified after a short time, a s hort time after it appeared.
Q Just a minute, defendant Funk. You Just foresaw what I am going to ask you but you don't know yet how my question is going to be formulated and you can reply to it later.
You just stated to the Tribunal that at none of the meetings of Hitler, never were discussed political or economic attacks on the Soviet Union and whenever such things were discussed at those meetings, you never participated at those meetings and all the plans of Hitler regarding the dismemberment of the Soviet Union you knew nothing about, and however, you yourself in your speech said that the East is going to be the future colony of Germany, colonial territory of Germany. You said that. Did you state it exactly so, that the East is going to be the future colonial territory of Germany?
A No; that I explained already in my interrogations. I disputed that and immediately after this was presented to me, I said that I was speaking of the old German colonial territories and General Alexander can confirm that. He questioned me about this.
Q I have no intention of calling General Alexander as a witness. I am only asking you whether you said exactly as it is written here in this booklet.
Q You just told me that I didn't have to remind you what had been written and this is exactly what had been written regarding your speech in Prague. I should like to remind you verbatim what you have said: "Large unknown territories in the great vast territories of the Soviet Union will become the much promising territories for raw materials in Europe", and at that time what was the question, what tactics were in question here at that time? I am asking you to answer.
A. I have said that I did not speak about colonial territories, but of the historic areas of communization of Germany.
Q. Yes, but this is not the question of old territories, but rather the new territories which you wanted to acquire. Well, let's leave that question.
A. The area had been conquered already. We did hot have to conquer that. That had been conquered by German troops.
Q. Yes. I am well aware of how they were seized and how you left them. This company was organized for the exploitation of the oil riches of the Eastern Occupied Territories, especially at Groznay and Baku. Please tell me whether it is correct. Answer yes or no.
A. It was not only for the occupied territories, but this company dealt with oil industries all over Europe. It grew from the shares in the Rumanian oil, and whenever German troops occupied territories where there were oil deposits, then that company, which was a foundation of the Four-Year Plan, was charged by the various economic offices, later by the armament industry, with going ahead and producing oil in these territories, with reconstructing destroyed oil wells. It was a company which had a tremendous reconstruction program. I personally was the president of the board and I only had to do wit the financing of that company.
Q. I have heard that already, but you didn't reply directly to my question. I asked you if the Groznay and Baku sources were the objects of the exploitation on your part. Were the oil sources of the Caucasus included as the basic capital of your plans?
A. No.
Q. No?
A. No.
Q. All right.
A. We didn't conquer the Caucasus and therefore the company could not be active in the Caucasus.
Q. Yes. However, at that time Rosenberg had already made a report regarding the seizure of the Caucasus and the exploitation of the raw materials there.
Tell me, do you remember that here, before the Tribunal, there was read into the record a transcript of a meeting at Goering's office on the 6th of August 1942, regarding the Eastern Occupied Territories? Do you remember about this meeting?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you participate in this meeting?
A. That I don't know. Did they speak about the oil territories in the Caucasus in that meeting? That I don't know.
Q. I told you nothing about it. I just asked you whether you participated in that meeting, whether you were present at that meeting or not.
A. That I don't know any more. It may very well be.
Q. You don't remember it?
A. No.
Q. In that case, I should like to submit to you a document which has already been submitted to the Tribunal, and was read into the record. It is Document USSR-170. effective measures for the economic plunder of the territories of the USSR, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and other countries. At this meeting, Defendant Goering addressed himself to you.
Do you remember that you were present at that meeting? No?
A. Yes, indeed. I remember that. But what Goering told me then refers to the fact that a long time after the Russian territories had been occupied. we sent businessmen there who were supposed to take merchandise into these territories that was of interest to the population. For instance it says here; "Businessmen were to be sent there, although we had to send them to Venice to buy that merchandise there and be able to re-sell it in the occupied Russian territories."
Q. Yes.
A. At least, that is what can be read here.
Q. I didn't ask you about that. I only want to know whether you were present at that meeting. Could you reply to the question directly.
A. Of course. Since Goering talked to me, I must have been there. It was on the 7th of August 1942.
Q. You replied here to certain questions of Mr. Dodd regarding the replenishment of the gold reserve of the Reichsbank.
It was stated that the gold reserves of the Reichsbank were replenished only from the gold reserves of the Belgian Bank. Did you not know that there was stolen from the National Czechoslovakian Bank 23,000 kilos of gold which were taken to the Reichsbank? explicitly here yesterday that the gold deposits had been increased by the taking over of the gold of the Czech National Bank and the Belgian Bank. I stated that clearly yesterday. I spoke of the Czech National Bank, and we worked together with them. Czechoslovak Bank.
A Yes, I mentioned it yesterday. I said so yesterday.
THE PRESIDENT: He said that just now. He said that he had spoken about the Czechoslovakian gold deposits.
GENERAL RAGINSKY: Mr. President, yesterday he didn't mention Czechoslovakia. That is why I put this question to him, but if he confirms it today, I am not going to interrogate him further regarding this question. BY GENERAL RAGINSKY:
Q I come now to the next question, regarding Yugoslavia. On the 14th of April 1941, that is to say before the full occupation of Yugoslavia, the Chief Commander of the German Land Army issued an order regarding the occupied territories of Yugoslavia. This document has already been submitted to the Tribunal as Exhibit USSR-140. Point 9 of this document speaks about the compulsory weight of the Yugoslav currency; one mark equals 20 dinars. There was also compulsory introduction of Reichskreditkassenschein. way, at a very cheap price, to export from Yugoslavia various valuables and merchandise, and such operations were carried out in all the Eastern Occupied Territories.
I am asking you: Do you agree that such operations were one of the means of economic plundering of the Eastern Occupied Territories?
A That depends on the relation of the exchange rate. In some cases, in particular in the case of France, I protested against the underevaluation of the currency of the occupied territories.
Q Excuse me just a second. You have already spoken about France and I don't want to take up the time of the Tribunal unnecessarily. dinar and the mark was at that time. In general, as much as I had anything to do with it -- I did not make the directive; that came from the Finance Minister of the Armed Forces -- I always saw to it that the rate should not be too far different from the rate which existed, on the basis of purchasing power. I could not tell now precisely what the exchange rate was at that time. troops, because otherwise we would have had to give out special requisition bills and that would have been much worse than introducing an official means of currency, as is being done right now here in Germany, because working with requisition bills is much more disagreeable and harmful for the population and the entire country than working with a recognized means of currency. We invented the Reiehskreditkassenschein ourselves. the entire guilt lies with the Minister of Finance. Tell me, are you aware of the testimony which was given by your assistant Landfried, and was submitted by your defense counsel? Do you remember what Landfried said? He said something quite different. He said that on the determination of the exchange rate, you had to do especially with the currency of the occupied territories in the East.
Do you agree with Landfried?
that can be confirmed by every document -- and I always intervened that the new rates should be as close as possible to the old rates established on the basis of purchasing power, that is to say, no under-evaluation. according to your directives and by you. advise.
Q Your advice?
A I had to approve it. Maybe it was the Reichsbank Directorate that formally gave the approval, but anyway I was asked.
Q I am satisfied with the reply to my question. I should like to go on now to the next question. regarding the Serbian National Bank, which has already been submitted to the Tribunal as USSR-Exhibit 135. This order, requested the National Bank of Yugoslavia and the entire property of that bank to be divided between Germany and its satellites. Instead of the National Yugoslavian Bank there was created the fictional so-called Serbian Bank, the leaders of which were appointed by the General Plenipotentiary in Serbia. in Serbia?