THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps we had better adjourn now.
(A recess was taken.)
BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV: culcating German youth and children, beginning with ten years of age, with Fascist ideology?
Do you hear mr? agree and admit that in the Hitler Youth I inculcated children from the age of 10 to 14 with Fascist ideas. duty and saw my mission, in order to educate the German youth-
THE PRESIDENT (Interposing): That is not an answer to the question. It is not necessary for you to tell us what you said in your previous evidence. Will you just answer the question: Do you admit that you inculcated, in the Hitler Youth, Hitler's ideology? You can answer that yes or no.
THE WITNESS: Icannot answer that question yes or no, because Fascism is involved. There is a tremendous difference between Fascism and National Socialism. I cannot affitm that question. I did educate the German youth to be National Socialists That I can admit. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV: on the 16th of November, 1945, during your interrogation. You defined your personal attitude to Hitler in the following way; and I quote your evidence:
"I was an enthusiastic adherent of Hitler. I considered everything that he wrote and stated to be absolutely true." submitted to me. I never mentioned Hitler as a diety, never. I remember exactly, General, that you interrogated me on this occasion, and I was asked whether I was an enthusiastic follower. I confirmed that, and I discussed the period of time at which I joined the movement, but I never set up the comparison which I am confronted with now, the comparison that I considered Hitler a diety.
Your evidence has been taken down, and I will repeat it:
"I was an enthusiastic adherent of Hitler, and I considered everything that he wrote and stated as an absolute truth."
Do you confirm this statement? Answer the question directly. to have the question out precisely, please.
Q I will quote your statement again:
"I was an enthusiastic adherent of Hitler's, and my attitude towards everything he wrote and said was that it was the absolute truth." Is that right? an enthusiastic adherent of Hitler's, and that I defined my attitude toward everything that he said and wrote. However, I could not have uttered any such nonsense, of having taken everything he said as the truth.
DR. SERVATIUS (Counsel for defendant Sauckel): May I give an explanation to this interpretation? In my opinion it would have to be stated correctly in German, "I considered as a revelation the things which he said", rather than "the truth". That seems to be a mistake in the interpretation. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV: my question.
A General, that was not my defense counsel; that was the defense counsel for the defendant Sauckel.
If it is to be translated in such a way as "revelation", then of course the whole thing will have content and sense and will coincide with the things that I uttered and declared to you at that time when I described the Youth.
In your book, entitled "The Hitler Jugend", it said-- and I quote page 17: "Hitler's book, Mein Kampf, is our bible." Do you confirm this? Did you write that?
A I added something to that in the book "The Hitler Youth Idea and Form", and I should like to say, first of all, I did write this book.
Q I would like to interrupt you. I do not need such detailed explanations, and I would like you to answer the question: Is that sentence contained in your book? add something by way of explanation, and I should like to give this explanation at this point. published in 1934--that we could not give reasons for our beliefs, we just believed, and when Hitler's book Mein Kampf appeared, this book appeared to be a bible, a bible which we almost memorized so that we could answer questions of doubt. I wrote that at that time, that is correct.
Q I would like to put another question to you. Do you admit that the Hitler Jugend was a political organization which, under the leadership of the NSDAP, carried out the policy of this Party among German youth? a political basis, but I cannot admit that it was led by the Party; it was led by me. I was a member of the Party leadership, and in that sense you might speak of an influence by the Party. However, I cannot see any reason for having to confirm it at this point; I have testified to this point already. It is correct that the Hitler Youth was the youth organization of the Party. If that is the sense of your question, I will admit that. signed for the education of youth. That is set out in Rauschning' book, which has already been submitted as documentary evidence before the Tribunal as USSR 378. I quote page 262 of that book:
"We will educate cool youth and exigent youth. Youth must possess all these qualities; it must be insensible to compassion, it must not possess any pity, and I would like to see in its glance the glance of a wild animal."
of Hitler. Do you admit that?
A I will not admit the things that Mr. Rauschning has written and set down. Just by accident I was present at a conversation between Hitler and Rauschning and, judging from that, the things that Rauschning set down in his book represent an unfaithful record or reproduction of Hitler's statements. Just by accident I was a witness of a conversation like that. give me those directives or guiding principles which Rauschning sets down as the guiding principles.
Q We did not ask you to give such a detailed explanation. I would like you to answer briefly the question I put to you. You have stated that Hitler Youth did not educate the German Youth in the militaristic spirit and did not prepare the German Youth to shoot aggressive wars. I would like to remind you of certain statements you made in that very same book, Hitler Youth, right here on page 83 of that book, the teaching of the younger generation of so-called Jungvolk. I quote:
"They are the bearers of the National Socialist Title. The manufacturers and the toy sellers are anxious because they do not need any toys. They are interested in selling tents, compasses and maps. It is a particular trait of our youth. Everything that is against our unity must be thrown to the flames." That according to those directives the German soldier learned the housing and billetting in occupied territories, is that true? Is that written in that book?
A That which is in front of me is set down in the book. That which I heard from the Interpreter is not set down in the book.
"The manufacturers of toys have complained that the boys, I am talking about young boys, do not wish to have toys any longer, but were interested in tents, compasses and other articles like that. I cannot help the manufacturer of Facist Toys for I feel that time of the Indians must be past. What is a savage in the American forest as compared to one who carries our flag? It is a pure remnant from the ethics of our fathers, not only the manufacturer of toys, but who today is wearing the cap of students, who today is better qualified than the units of Hitler Youth? to be burned, and that, General, is the impression of the period of storm and stress of Youth aside from the social units. children must no longer play with toys and must do other things. I don't see a great deal of difference between my quotation and yours.
the German people seems behind that of the Soviet Union.
Q I don't consider that comparison very adequate. On page 98 of your book, speaking of Hitler Youth, you wrote:
"They strive to be soldiers of politics. Their model is Adolph Hitler." Did you write that?
A I haven't found the place, page 98?
THE PRESIDENT: The witness has admitted he wrote the whole book, hasn't he?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: In order not to lengthen the proceedings we will pass to the next question. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Hitler Youth, you assert this organization had only it's party aim, is that right? made excursions into the Hinterland and I said as soon as I realized that the Motorized Hitler Youth had a pre-military significance I did not dispute this point at all.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd cress examined the witness at very considerable length on these matters about the special units of Hitler Youth, and it really isn't any good to go over it all again.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, Mr. President. Only a few moments. He explained the important elements. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV: organization of Motorized Hitler Units consisted of Nazi detachments of one hundred thousand young men? memory. Is it the words I repeated through the translation or do you mean in our organization the exact strength of the motorized Hitler Jugend for 1938?
I mentioned the figure either to Mr. Dodd or to my defense attorney and I gave all figures, exact figures in that respect. thousand Hitler Youth and I would like you to confirm that. Do you have knowledge of this fact? hundred thousand you th in the motorized Hitler Youth. It might have been sixty thousand, it might have been 120 thousand. I cannot tell. I do not know. I do not have the proof. archives. I would like to recall the tasks of those organizations as those were set out in the newspaper, Abteilung, dated November, 1939. The preparation of the Youth Organization must be carried out in special instructional detachments, and furthermore in special motorized schools of National Socialist Motorized Hitler Youth. I quote this excerpt according to the Document Book of the Defense, Document 20, page 50 of the Russian text. I repeat:
"The official preparation of this organization must be carried out in special instruction detachments, and later in special motorized schools of the National Socialist Motorized Corps, but this applies only to Youths who have reached the age of eighteen. The course of instruction includes, besides practical matters, the training, orientation and also biological preparation of Hitler Youth, and those who fulfill successfully this course of instructionwill be admitted into the National Socialist Motor Corps or its complement." This looks very much like what youcall sporting tasks. Do you agree withthis?
THE PRESIDENT: We have heard a long commentary about these special units, and we really don't want to hear it any more. If you have any questions on new matters which haven't been dealt with by Mr. Dodd we shall be glad to hear them but we don't want to hear about whether there are sixty, a hundred thousand or a hundred twenty thousand Hitler Youth in the Motorized Corps.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: But I am only repeating that which is in the Document Book.
THE PRESIDENT: We don't want to hear it.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: I will pass on to the next question. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Youth, so called Hitler Jugend, in service. In this directive it shows a comparison of the theory of weapons and the theory of firing, targets, shooting, marching, exercises, topography and landscaping, also an appendix includes instructions for the utilization of a field camp. Are you acquainted with this directive? Do you consider that this also did not correspond to the aim of a military preparation of German Youth? Thursday. I discussed this matter at length, and especially about the training which is set forth in the book "Das Archiv," and in that connection I remarked that this training in shooting was according to the rules of the international shooting and has been carried on according to international rules and that the British education also recommended certain exercises as well as the book. I do not dispute that this book, Hitler Jugend in Service was given out by me and that it was a directive along general principles. I said that the other day. in the fifth column in Poland and that also applies to Yugoslavia. The Yugoslavian Government has put at our disposal documents which estimated the participation of the Hitler Jugend Im Dienst, through the Hitler Jugend, and claims it as a fifth column on Yugoslavia territory. Do you have any knowledge of this fact? Do you know anything about this?
A. The Hitler Youth was never active in the Fifth Column, neither Yugoslavia nor anywhere else.
Q. I will then quote excerpts from the official report of the Yugoslav Government. This has already been submitted to the Tribunal as USSR Exhibit 75. I quote from name 3 of the Tussian text of this document:
"The German Government and the National Socialist Party in a secret way organized German aggression; beginning with 1930 they had mass organizations of culture. Already in 1932 Dr. Jacob Avender was in favor of the unions of culture. In 1935 he was put at the head of active youth organizations which shortly after this began to be called the rejuvenating organization."
Do you know anything about this?
A. According to the reports which you have just mentioned, I can not make any statement I understood this much, that Bohle had some Youth leaders as his men there, but I cannot give you any exact date. As far as the question of Yugoslavia is concerned, I can tell you from my previous background that I had a very good relationship and good connections with Yugoslav youth, that the connections were amiable and friendly, and especially in the period before the war.
Q. I am not interested in that. I will try to help you then. I will quote from excerpts from a supplementary report of the Yugoslav Government which is submitted to the Tribunal as Yugoslav Exhibit 357. On page 8 of the Russian text of this document we read:
"Beginning with 1928 between the Volksdeutsche in our country an orientation movement begins toward National Socialism and the first groups of youth start going to Germany for special course of instructions. But before the war with the Soviet Union the greater part of these members became officers of the German Army. Besides the Youth organizations, a special SS division, Prinz Eugen, was formed."
Do you deny these facts?
Q. I can admit some. Some of this I have to refute. In other words, I have to give an explanation. Beginning with 1933 I tried to maintain and bring about a good relationship with Yugoslavia. Starting with approximately 1936 or 1937 I extended invitations to Yugoslav Youth groups, as well as the Youth groups of all the European countries, and invited them to visit and look at our installations.
Then Yugoslav groups in compliance with my invitation came to Germany. But that Yugoslav youth entered the German Army, I know nothing about that, and I do not believe it is so. But I can say that in the period of time when Prince Regent Paul was reigning in Yugoslavia there was a very close collaboration with the Yugoslavian youth. During the war, with Serbian and Croatian youth we maintained fine relations as well. German youth were there, and Serbian and Croatian youth were in the Germany. They were in German Youth Camps; they were in German leader schools and looked at our installations. That is perhaps everything I can tell you about this. But that was not only a relationship between us and Yugoslavia but a relationship which existed with many other countries as well.
Q. You did not understand me correctly. I was not speaking of the Yugoslavian youth. I was speaking of the German National minority youth of which this report speaks and who with the participation of the Hitler Youth prepared cadres of Fifth Column activity for diversional operations and the presentation of the SS units. That is what I was speaking about. Are you acquainted with these facts?
A. I know that ther were Volksdeutsche -- that is, German nationals -in Yugoslavia as well as Rumania and other countries. I know that this German youth felt themselves to be Hitler Youth. When the German troops marched in, these people greeted the German troops. That I know also, but just how far they worked together, that is, between the troops and the youth -- that I cannot tell you about; but a working together, a collaboration, would be natural; of course, it would not be a military working together, but rather a collaboration which would work itself out with an occupational force when the youth belonged to the same nationality, something which would result in every case. But there was no espionage or any other activities like that involved.
Q. But the SS Division, Prinz Eugen, which was formed on Yugoslavian territory was completed in major part by Hitler Youth members of the National German minority in Yugoslavia and this occurred as a result of the corresponding preparation by the Hitler Jugend.
Isn't that so? Do you admit that? many -- how they were recruited. It is possible that some German nationals were recruited in the locality involved, but I can't give you definite information. I have none.
Q I will quote from excerpts from two German documents. They have not yet been submitted to the Tribunal. The first excerpt is from a book by Dr. Jan ko Sepp, who was the Youth Leader in Yugoslavia, entitled "Speeches and Article She wrote:
"All our national work before the kst of September, 1939, depended on the help of the Reich. When on the 1st of September 1939, war began and when it first appeared impossible to receive further aid, there was a danger that all our work would have to be suspended. Further, the fact that I put at the disposal of the Fuehrer the entire German national group in the former Yugoslavian territory and that it gave him so many volunteer soldiers, is a subject of grea pride for me."
The next excerpt is from an article, "We", something written in 1943 by Otto Kohler, who was lender of German youth in that territory. Dr. Kohler wrote in that article :
"Ninety per cent of our youth are also members of the organizations of the German Youth." vity and Fifth Column activity and the formation in some ranks of the German youth of Facist organizations was carried out on Yugoslav territory with the aid of the Hitler Youth. Please answer yes or no.
A No. But I should like to comment on these documents .
This Dr. Janko Sepp, the leader of the Volksdeutsche - the German nationals -- in Yugoslavia is not known to me, either by name or personally. I visited Yugoslavia several times in the past and neither in the time I believe when I was there for the first time in 1937 or later on in 1939 when I visited Prince Regent Paul did I concern myselg with the leaders of youth. On these visits I dealt only with national Yugoslavian leaders. And that is my comment on the first document.
This document does not seem to apply to youth at all. self the Hitler Youth Leader in Group 7 -- as to that I can only say it seems to be taken from a book about German Youth in Hungary in 1933 where in the Batschka we had a large settlement of Germans, people who had been living there 150 to 200 years, and this Youth leader organized German youth there, but with the approof Education and in collaboration with other Hungarian offices and agencies. It was an entirely legal measure and because of this there was no controversy between the two countries involved. The young people were not members of the German Hitler Youth but they belonged to groups which were minority groups in Hungary. similar organizations abroad?
A Of course, we visited those youths. If, for instance I was a guest in Budapest the Hungarians themselves offered to have me visit German youth and German villages. The administrator had no objections, nor did any office of the Government. And there was no reason why I should try to have espionage work in Hungarian Youth leaders with whom I was on very good terms.
Q. But there was a special foreign section in the Reich Leadership of the Hitler Yout. Was not its task the leadership of the German Youth Organizations abroad?
A. That is not correct. It is not correct. The Auslandamt of the Reich Youth Leadership, was, if I may say so, the foreign office of the younger generation. The task of the Auslandamt was maintaining contacts with other national youth organizations. That is, the leaders of youth abroad were to be invited to Germany and return visits by germans would be organized abroad and along the lines of the foreign offices. This office turned to the Foreign Office, and the Foreign Office would turn to the Ambassador of the country involved. referring was the subordinate organization of the H.O., and chief of this unit, Gauleiter Bohle, has already been heard in this proceeding.
In foreign countries youth consisted of German national youth; that is, youth who were German nationals abroad, who formed units of the Hitler Youth. In, let us say, Budapest, the children of the German colony, starting with the children of the German Ambassador.
THE PRESIDENT: Surely, defendant, it is not necessary to make such a long speech about it. BY GENERAL ALEXANDROV:
Q. You are giving too many details. department was created in the first Hauptamt. What do you know about this office and what was its relationship to the Reich Leadership of youth? Please answer briefly.
A. From my knowledge, I can say that at the forming of the Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories, Reichsleiter Rosenberg at that time expressed the wish that he wanted a collaborator for the Division Youth and to have this collaborator in the Ministry. This collaborator was appointed. He was taken into the Ministry, and there he was the head of the Department Youth. He was, of course, under the responsibility of the Ministry for the East. More I can not tell you about that.
The reports from this sector did not come to me.
Q. You mean that this representative was transferred to the Ministry for Eastern Occupied Territories and that this gentleman did not send in any report to the Reich Youth Leadership; is that right?
A. General, I wanted to say that the head of this department, this official, whatever he was, in the Eastern Ministry who came from the Hitler Youth, did not report to me. He naturally reported to his immediate superior in the Reich Youth Leadership, and this group was in Berlin, and I assume that the collaborators of the staff of the Reich Youth Leadership were in constant touch with him.
Q. As I understand it, the measures that were carried out by the Youth Office in the Reich Ministry of Eastern Occupied Territories were carried out with the knowledge of theReich Youth Leadership; is that right?
A. Measures which were carried through there were carried through, of course, according to principles laid down by the Reich Minister, who was the immediate superior of these officials. As far as we were dealing with youth measures, the treatment of youth, anything like that specially, I am sure that the Youth Leader or the official involved told the Reich Ministry and was informed, but as far as responsibility was concerned, the Minister is always responsible, not the place from which the Youth Leader comes from.
Q. To the question put to you by your Defense Counsel regarding the participation of the Youth in the was excesses, you answered that the data supplied by the Polish State Commission were not true.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Gentlemen of the Tribunal, the Soviet Prosecution have had occasion to go into this matter deeper and I now submit to the Tribunal excerpts from the testimony of the witness Vasso, dated 16 May 1946, and I would like to submit it as USSR Exhibit 455. I shall now read the excerpts into the record:
"Not only adult Germans and old Nazis, but German youths in the person of representatives of the organized Facist Hitler Jugend Organization in Lwov took part in atrocities committed on Jewish, Polish and Soviet population of the town of Lwov. Dressed in uniforms and armed with hunting knives and often pistols, they broke into Jewish apartments in the towns and carried out depredations there, killing everybody, aged persons and children.
They often stopped children whom they considered suspect and whom they met on the street and, with the cry of "You are a Jew" or "You are a Jewish girl", killed them on the spot.
"This Hitler Youth occupied itself with special reconnaisance work for ascertaining the location of Jewish apartments and hunted for Jews in hiding, organized raids and attacked passersby, killing some of them on the spot, or drawing them into the Gestapo headquarters.
"Their victims were both Jews and Poles, Russians, Ukrainains and citizens of other countries.
"This terror on the part of adult and young Germans was carried out until the last days of their stay in Lwov. This was especially apparent during the carrying out of so-called actions in the Ghetto when the children of various ages who were sheltered in specially created nursing homes were systematically exterminated according to plan." the carrying out of these atrocities. Do you admit this?
A. I do not believe a word of what is contained in this document.
Q. Well, that is your affair.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Mr. President, I am submitting to the Tribunal another document USSR 454, excerpts from the testimony of the German prisoner of war, Gerd Bruno Knittel.
Gerd Bruno Knittel was born in 1924 in Saxony. After 1938 he was a member of the Hitler Youth. His sister was also a member of the National Socialist League of German girls. In 1942 -- that is to say, when he was 18 years old -he was called up into the German army. Thus, he is a typical member, representative of the Hitler Youth, and therefore his testimony is of interest. This is what he relates about his service in the German army. I read:
"Not less then twice a week, we were called upon to comb out the forests."
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, against the use of this document -- we have received a copy of it -- I should like to protest from what I have in front of me. It does not follow at all, it is not seen at all whether this document was actually signed and, further, we cannot see whether this document was sworn to and, further, we cannot see who took down this document which seems to be a record and, in my opinion, these questions have to be clarified and until this clarification has taken place, I must object. Perhaps, Mr. President, in this connection, I might like to comment on the other document as well, a document which was read previously, dealing with the testimony of Eda Vasso -I am not absolutely sure of the name: it seems to be illegible, but I assume that this female witness is identical with the same French National Ida Vasseaux, that they are the same person about whom you gentlemen have granted a questionnaire and to whom I have submitted my questions. We are waiting for the return of our questionnaire and her answers. Today, we received a record which supposedly refers to the same female witness, dated the 16th of May 1946: and now, here -
THE PRESIDENT: I am not following quite what you are saying. Are you saying that you have issued a questionnaire to the person who is alleged to have made this document?
DR. SAUTER: I assume for sure that it is the same person, your Honor. In the record of the 16th of May, the name is spelled differently but it would have to be remarkable.
THE PRESIDENT: I am not hearing what you are saying. Are you saying that you issued a questionnaire to the person who made this document?
DR. SAUTER: Yes. The High Tribunal has granted a questionnaire to a French woman, Ida Vasseaux. I will spell the name -- V-A-S-S-E-A-U-X. That is the French woman Eda Vasso who is in an institution in Lemberg, who was working there, and who is mentioned in the Lemberg Commission Report. You perhaps remember, Mr. President, in one of these reports it says that children were taken from the ghetto and given to the"HJ", the Hitler Youth and that the Hitler Youth used these children as live targets, and that is the witness Eda Vasso, and I believe with certainty that it is the same Ida Vasseaux who is mentioned in the record of the 16th of May 1946. The remarkable thing is that in the report of the 16th of May 1946, she does not mention these points according to which she is being interrogated in the questionnaire.
Instead, she makes further assertions here which she did not make in the Lemberg Commission Report. This seems to be a very mysterious matter and I believe that I would do an injustice to the defendant von Schirach if I did not call your attention to these contradictions.
THE PRESIDENT: We would like to hear you in detail, General, in answer to what Dr. Sauter has said.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Ida Vasseaux, whose excerpts I have read, is certainly the same person of whom Dr. Sauter is speaking. I do not know to whom the interrogatory was addressed or sent. This was not done through our office. Ida Vasseaux was interrogated according to our own initiative and we only could do so on the 16th of May. A special interrogatory was not received by us. We did not send it and we could not do so because the evidence was given only -
THE PRESIDENT: I have only got this document here in German and it doesn't appear to be a document signed or made by a person called "Vasseaux" at all. I don't know whether it is dealing with something that Ida Vasseaux is alleged to have said.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: This document is signed.
THE PRESIDENT: I said it wasn't signed by Vasseaux.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: This document is signed Ida Vasseaux and the signatures of those who carried out the interrogatory -- the head of the department of the Lwow (?) district, Sirinowsky, and the prosecutor Nekonetov. An interrogatory was carried out on the 16th of May 1946.
THE PRESIDENT: Look at this document and see if it is the right document.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, these are excerpts from the interrogation of Eda Vasso.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that the document?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, yes, that is the same document which we are now submitting to the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that the original you have got before you?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: No, this is an excerpt from the record, certified by the Chief of Documentation of the Soviet Delegation, Colonel Karev. This is not the original protocal record of the interrogation. These are excerpts from this record.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you saying that it is a document which is admissible under Article 21 or what are you saying about it?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: We are submitting it. If the Tribunal considers that it is necessary to bring out the original of the protocol, we will be able to do so in a short time. We do not have yet the original copy of the protocol but, of course, if the Tribunal is not satisfied with these excerpts, we will very well be able to submit the entire protocol.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you tell us what the document is? Is it an affidavit, is it sworn to, is it made before an official of the Soviet Union?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: There is a note here. According to Article 89 of the Penal Code of the Ukraine -- USSR, this document is certified. This corresponds to the official demands of the Penal Code of the Soviet Union and, therefore, these conditions were carried out during the interrogation of Eda Vasso; and this is mentioned in this document.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you saying that it is a document which falls within Article 21 of the Charter?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, but If the Tribunal consider it necessary, we will be able later to submit the original copy of the record; only, I would like you to accept now these excerpts which have been certified by the documentary division.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, what is the date on which your interrogatory was allowed by the Tribunal and what was the date on which it was sent out to this person?
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, my interrogatory bears the date of the 11th of April.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: The interrogatory could not be sent in because we did not know where the witness Vasseaux was. We only found out about that recently.
THE PRESIDENT: You mean that the interrogatory has not been administered to the person who made this statement?
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: This interrogation could not have reached its destination because, I repeat, we didn't know until quite recently where the witness Vasseaux was.
THE PRESIDENT: When you did find out whore the witness was, the interrogatory could have been administered.
GENERAL ALEXANDROV: Yes, yes, and it can be done now if you consider it necessary.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, I should like to point out the following: This women Ida Vasseaux at the time of this affidavit, which is mentioned in the Commission Report, she was present at Lemberg then and this fact may be seen from the report. I believe it is USSR 6 but I do not recall the exact number of the document; and, now, on the 16th of May of this year, this woman Vasseaux was at Lemberg as well; therefore, the woman is not of an unknown whereabouts. She was interrogated on the 16th of May. Regarding the interrogatory which was submitted to Vasseaux, I spoke with the prosecution about the drawing up of the questionnaire. There was some question as to the questions and I was told that something was not in good order. The questions which I submitted to the High Tribunal were drawn up according to the wishes of the prosecution; therefore, this Ida Vasseaux, if the Soviet Delegation is agreeable to this, this woman can be interrogated at any time, and to appear here in the courtroom.