Q. Then you identify it from the handwriting?
A. Yes, and on the basis of the superficial recollection of having seen such a picture in the studio.
Q. You remember the picture but not the person?
A. That is right.
Q. Do you remember most of the pictures that you looked at?
A. I think if I would see them, yes.
Q. How long did you work there?
A. How long did I work there? Do you mean with -
Q. Yes, with Frau Shreyer?
A. From 1941 until the beginning of 1943.
Q. About how many pictures were taken during that time?
A. Well, I cannot say. There was a lot of work to do there.
Q. Would you say as many as a thousand?
A. Even more than that.
Q. Two thousand?
A. Well, I could not really say.
Q. Well, anyhow you had at least one-thousand, and do you think that you would remember the features of one-thousand faces?
A. Not all of them.
Q. Would you remember most of them?
A. I think so, yes.
Q. You remember the features of most of one-thousand which, of course , would be over five-hundred, but yet you could not remember when you went to work there, whether 1940 or 1941?
Q Well, was 1940 the same as 1941?
Q Was 1939 the same as 1941?
Q Well, you had more reasons to be happy in 1939 and '40, than you did in 1941, didn't you? the furlough of my husband, and thus, the time always seemed the same to me.
Q I didn't quite catch that answer?
A I was always waiting for my husband's furlough, from one furlough to another, therefore, the time always seemed the same to me.
Q When did he go away?
Q I don't recall your having said that you were married in 1939, when we questioned you before about that? Is that when you were married, in 1939?
A No, I was married in '41, but in '39 I was already engaged.
Q Yes. Wouldn't you remember 1941 very distinctly if that was the year in which you got married? Wouldn't you?
Q Well, how could you confuse that with 1940? for Frau Schreyer.
Q In what month were you married in 1941?
Q Where is the black book? Let me have the black book, please. When did you start to keep this book (shows witness the book?)
Q What is the first month indicated here? this book before.
Q When did you start to keep the book?
Q Was that the 13 November 1941?
Q What happened to the first seventy pages of this book?
A I don't know. ably devastated the studio? Were you working there at the time?
Q When did you leave?
Q When was the studio destroyed by bombs?
Q Is that when you ceased your services with Frau Schreyer?
Q How many days before?
Q Well, was it a matter of days or a matter of weeks? you left just before the planes arrived?
A No, I was always in Berlin, but my husband didn't want me to work in the evenings. just a day before the bombing attack?
A Why one day? studio, is that correct?
A I don't know whether it was one day before.
Q When was the studio destroyed by airraid?
Q Well, you left the day before? Look at the book.
A (Delivers the book to the witness.)
Q Does that say, "28 February," the last entry? the day before the airraid?
A Yes, I can now remember. On the first of March I had air raid service in the firm and when I came home on the second of March I went to Frau Schreyer to help her to clear up the place. On the same day, however, my husband came home on furlough and he didn't want me to continue to work for Frau Schreyer. didn't you?
THE PRESIDENT: Any further questions? Dr. Hochwald, you may proceed.
DR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, I have one or two questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Certainly.
DR. HOCHWALD: If I can get the book. BY DR. HOCHWALD:
Q Will you tell us, witness, what day you married?
Q Did you work that evening?
Q On the 27th of December 1941?
Q Will you look at the book. Isn't the entry of this day from you, made by your handwriting?
THE WITNESS: May I say something about that, please.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly.
THE WITNESS: We always made the entries but it sometimes happened that I would put them in afterwards. It is possible that perhaps I made the entry on 30 December but we wrote in the date when the appointment was made. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Were you working on your wedding day?
Q Well did you make up any appointments on that day? In that appointment pad? Where is the appointment pad?
MR. HOCHWALD: Should be on the bench, your Honor.
THE WITNESS: No, I don't have the appointment pad.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. You may proceed counsel. BY DR. KRAUSE: entry with ink in the book?
Q Did you use a fountain pen?
A Yes. I have a fountain pen.
Q Do you still possess this fountain pen?
Q And something else. In the course of time when you were working for Frau Schreyer there were centuries of entries in this book; do you recall every single name?
A No, of course not. I could not. consider it improbable that the name Haensch appears in the cash register book, since you had transferred the names from the appointment list to the cash register book and therefore would recall that name. How did it occur to you to say this was improbable if your memory of the various names is not so good after all? quite correct. mean this? but that I can't recall it.
Q Yes. After you left Frau Schreyer, that is, after March 1943, did you ever have this book in your hands again?
your hands again after this time?
Q Did any one on the order of Dr. Haensch get in touch with you?
A You mean now? Recently?
Q At all, I mean, ever? tions altogether and you were sworn in as to what you testified. After you answered these 12 questions or during the course of the interrogation was it said to you that the name of Dr. Haensch is contained in the book, contrary to your own assumption? reproduces your handwriting at that time? down or even letters which you wrote and which were handed back to you?
Q Thank you, I have no further questions. But I would like to make a motion. I would like those samples of writing of the witness which are available from the year 1942 and which reproduce her handwriting as it was at that time, that this material be safeguarded and secured and be submitted here in order to compare the handwriting. Furthermore, I request that the sample taken today be repeated by the witness in ink by using her own fountain pen.
Your Honor, at this occasion I would like to ask a question. After the completion of the examination of the defendant Haensch it was intended to undertake a medical examination of the defendant in order to to determine how his state of health has developed.
Now, as I hear from the defendant, a short visit by a physician was made in his quarters and the defense is interested in whether the result of a possible examination is already available.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will be instructed to report to the Tribunal as soon as possible on the result of the examination made of the defendant Haensch and as soon as this report comes into possession of the Tribunal defense counsel will be informed.
DR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, I have no further questions to the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, defense counsel has made a motion with regard to - - -
DR. HOCHWALD: I want to express the view point of the Prosecution. We do not, of course, oppose this motion but I do think that we could ask the Tribunal to instruct the witness to write down the affidavit which is in evidence before the Tribunal and is written by the witness in Latin letters, to write down the same affidavit in Gothic letters in ink so that a good basis for an examination of the handwriting may be available.
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, you are instructed to copy again the affidavit which you have already written in your own hand, but to copy it this time in Gothic in the script which you used in 1942.
DR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, I do not want her to copy. I do want her to write it from the mimeographed text which does not give an example to the witness in the way in which she wrote.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, by copying I meant copying the wordage and not the form of writing.
DR. HOCHWALD: May I move then that the witness be handed a mimeograph copy in German that from this mimeograph copy in German she should write in ink the contents of the affidavit in Gothic letters.
THE PRESIDENT: And we ask you witness, is there any reason why you can't do that after you leave the witness stand and you don't need to bother about it any more, while you are here, you can write it and submit it to the Tribunal and you don't need to concern yourself about it later.
THE WITNESS: Of course, I can do that immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Now just how do you intend to obtain these other papers that you referred to, counsel?
DR. KRAUSE: Well, I have the following to say, your Honor. I believe it is not so important how the witness writes German today but how she wrote German in 1942. Therefore, taking a German sample of her writing today I do not consider so relevant but, of course, I would not object to it. On the other hand I consider it important that any kind of sample of her writing from the year 1942 be brought in for purposes of comparison, and I would ask you to instruct the witness to put such a sample at our disposal and by the motion that I made before about securing all the writing material I don't mean that everything be confiscated from her which she put down in writing. It may be left up to the witness to give us any kind of sample of her writing in 1942 and to submit it here.
DR. HOCHWALD: It goes without saying, your Honor, that of course if the witness wants to put at the disposal of an expert a letter or something in her handwriting from the year 1942 it would be of great help to this expert, but nevertheless I still move that it should be shown how she writes today, first of all, it is easily possible that the witness will be not able to put at the disposal of the Tribunal examples written by her personally in 1942 as the identification is not easy of such things. Second of all I do think it is necessary that the Tribunal knows that this example is written by the witness herself and that can only be done here and nowhere else.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. We will sum up the entire matter. This is what will take place. In the first place the witness will in accordance with defense counsel's request, copy these words which she wrote on this sheet with her own pen on a sheet of paper. That is number one. And you may introduce that as an exhibit, counsel. Then number two. As you leave the courtroom you will step into one of the ante chambers and copy from the mimeographed sheet the affidavit which you wrote in Berlin. Number three. When you return to your home you will endeavor to locate some letters which you wrote to your husband in 1942. If he is a good husband and loved you perhaps he kept the letters, but maybe he is still a good husband and loves you but lost the letters.
But, at any rate we would like to have not only the letters but the envelopes in which they were mailed. A representative of the Prosecution, and if the defense has a representative in Berlin, can call on you to obtain these letters. At any rate to whomever you consign these letters you will obtain a receipt that the letters were consigned to that person and then the letters will be submitted to the Tribunal.
Now will you please write those words?
WITNESS: Yes, but I just find that I have left my fountain pen in the other room.
THE PRESIDENT: Any pen will do. Where is your pen? Page, will you get the pen for her?
DR. KRAUSE: Your Honor, I ask that the witness be given the opportunity to use her own fountain pen.
THE PRESIDENT: The page has gone for her own fountain pen.
DR. KRUASE: Pardon me. Thank you.
DR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, it is respectfully moved by the Prosecution that all exhibits in the case connecting the case of Haensch with the different negatives and positives of this picture mentioned, the two negatives, the one positive, the appointment pad and the book, the different examples of handwriting of the witness may be handed to American experts who should be able to answer all questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Why do you say American experts? To experts.
DR. HOCHWALD: To experts, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: They can be German as well as American.
DR. HOCHWALD: Certainly your Honor. I only said to American experts for one reason as I do not think there is an institute at the moment in Bavaria other than American who can expertise these letters. That was the only reason.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, defense counsel will have the same privilege of presenting them to whichever experts they select.
DR. HOCHWALD: Certainly, I beg Your Honor's pardon.
DR. KRAUSE: Your Honor, Dr. Riediger has already made the motion to undertake a comparison of handwriting by experts. May I repeat that motion?
DR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, I have then said that we have no objection against this motion but that we think it is premature before the Court until the witness will be heard. There is no objection by the Prosecution whatsoever that the defense hands these samples of the handwriting of the witness to any expert the defense may desire. I do think my motion was different. I said all exhibits which include also the negatives - I have mentioned the negatives - and the positives of the picture - we are interested to know when and how the picture was made. So we move that all these exhibits may be handed by the Tribunal in the form the Tribunal desires to experts who can determine all pertinent questions in this case.
THE PRESIDENT: The exhibits will be in the custody of the Secretary General and they will be available both to the Prosecution and to the defense for expert scrutiny, comparison, analysis and eventual report to the Tribunal.
DR. HOCHWALD: Thank you very much, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Just one last question, witness. You have testified that both you and Frau Schreyer kept this appointment pad. In this particular one which we have here in the Tribunal do you know whether the pad was kept more by yourself or more by her?
appointment pad as between you and Frau Schreyer?
Q Very well. Was the appointment made the same day the picture was taken?
Q You don't recall whether you saw Haensch that day or not?
wouldn't you?
Q But when you saw the negative you couldn't recollect him as an individual, you only recollected the picture or rather the negative which you had seen before?
A That's right.
THE PRESIDENT: Secretary General, will you please take these exhibits now so that they won't be confused.
Yes, Mr. Hochwald.
DR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, in order to make the case completely clear I would respectfully request that the Tribunal advise the witness Schreyer to hand over the appointment pad of the second part of December 1941.
THE PRESIDENT: Well why not say the entire month so there won't be any confusion.
DR. HOCHWALD: If possible, the entire month.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you intend to have a representative call at Frau Schreyer's to pick up these pads?
DR. HOCHWALD: I intend to do so with the permission of the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will make the necessary entry and the transcript will show this, that Frau Schreyer is directed to turn over to a representative of the Prosecution the appointment pads kept of her work during the month of December 1941.
DR. HOCHWALD: Thank you very much your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: And now defense counsel may introduce the exhibit made up by the witness if he so desires.
THE WITNESS: I have to wait for the fountain pen.
THE PRESIDENT: Page, where is the fountain pen? Have you located it?
DR. KRAUSE: Your Honor, the witness calls my attention to the fact that she had to have her fountain pen in order to take down the sample with ink.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, where is the fountain pen?
DR. KRUASE: I just hear that somebody was sent out to get it.
THE PRESIDENT: Where did you leave your fountain pen?
THE PRESIDENT: Seems we have to establish a lost and found department in this particular instance. Well, under those circumstances the witness will have to return to the witness home to write up these exhibits because she doesn't have her fountain pen here.
DR. KRUASE: Well, I ask that she be permitted to do so.
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, please return to the witness house and combe back to the court house if you can still today, otherwise tomorrow morning, with the documents which you are to prepare. Is that clear to you?
THE PRESIDENT: Defense counsel, and prosecution counsel as well, unquestionably who were cherishing the hope that the rumor might be true that the Tribunal would not sit tomorrow will have to blame Dr. Hoffmann if this hope has been punctured because we have just received a note to the effect that the witness that he had summoned will be here tomorrow morning. The Tribunal will be in session for a short period to hear this witness tomorrow at ten o'clock, and after that witness is heard, then the Tribunal will adjourn until January 5th, so that now the Tribunal will be in recess until tomorrow morning at ten o'clock.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 20 December 1947, at 1000 hours.)
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II.
Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
DR. HOFFMANN (Attorney for the defendant Nosske): Your Honor, I have heard that the witness Haensch is here, I beg your pardon, the witness Harsch. May I ask the Tribunal if it is agreeable to them that the witness Harsch may be lead into the Court?
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will be brought into the courtroom and taken to the witness stand.
DR. KRAUSE (Attorney for the defendant Haensch): Your Honor, yesterday I was to be given the specimen of the handwriting of the witness Reich in order to introduce it as document. This was the specimen which she gave of her handwriting here on the witness stand. Unfortunately, I was not in a position to reach the witness in order to get this specimen of her handwriting. I do not know whether I shall reach her. In this case this is not -
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, there is no use of your putting a long question to me when I already know the answer.
DR. KRAUSE: Well, the important matter to me now is whether I will get this specimen of her handwriting.
THE PRESIDENT: That is what I am going to tell you. You see, I know the whole story so you don't have to tell it to me. The witness returned after the session of the court had terminated and turned over to the Tribunal the specimen of her handwriting and the copy in Gothic script of her affidavit and these have been turned over to the Secretary General to be kept in the archives until the court reconvenes in January. We don't believe that it would be wise during the holiday season to have these exhibits outside the Secretary General's office, because there is always the chance of loss, so that if you will address yourself to the Tribunal or to me personally when we reconvene on January 5th, we will accede to your wishes.
DR. KRAUSE: Thank you very much.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
ERWIN HARSCH, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE SPEIGHT: Witness, raise your right hand, repeat after me: pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath).
JUDGE SPEIGHT: You may be seated. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q What is your name, witness?
A Dr. Harsch.
Q And what is your address?
Q Do you have a street address?
Q Very well. Witness, Dr. Hoffmann, who is the attorney for the defendant Nosske in the case which is being tried before this Tribunal, indicated to the Tribunal that you were familiar with an incident or episode in which the defendant Nosske played a part during the war. We are not going to put any specific questions to you immediately, because we do not know enough about your knowledge of the situation even to put questions. Dr. Hoffmann has suggested that you be summoned here to court and that has been done and suggested that you be allowed to tell your story and you may do so. Just tell the Tribunal what you know about this episode in which Nosske played a part, giving us the dages, the places, and all relevant data.
A I will. During the war I was a member of an engineering unit. In 1941 we had built a bridge across the Dnjestr River from Bessarabia to the Ukrainian part. After the bridge had been built, my unit went along to the Bug River, while I myself and a small kommando remained at this bridge. Approximately the middle of August, 1941, a passenger car appeared at this bridge in which there were one or more members of the SS - they might have been members of the SD, I do not remember.
Q Yes, now, Dr. Harsch, what unit were you with?
Q This, of course, was part of the Wehrmacht?
Q And what rank did you hold?
Q All right. Now you were an NCO of the Bridge Building Battalion of the Wehrmacht, you had built a bridge across the Dnjestr River, a bridge which spanned the river and which conducted traffic from Bessarabia to the Ukraine, generally speaking; and in the middle of August, a truck appeared. Proceed from that point. addressed as Sturmbannfuehrer, asked for the bridge officer. I told him that I was dealing with matters of the bridge, whereupon he said, "Surely, we know each other." He said that he had been in Halle and that I also came from Halle. After a few questions and answers we found out that the man who asked the question was a Government Counsillor, Nosske, who at the beginning of 1930 had worked in Halle as a lawyer and whom I knew from there, whom I had met during that time, in fact.
I had then been a lawyer and notary public in Halle.
This Nosske put his request to me. He told me that a large column of Jews would be lead to this bridge and would be lead back into Bessarabia. I do not remember what number it was that he mentioned. It could have been between 10,000 and 20,000 Jews. possibly even the whole night, and he asked me whether the bridge could be released for this purpose. Of course, now, this bridge had all the traffic to the front line. As such, it could not be interrupted, so that I could not release the bridge for so long a period, unless there was some other possibility to get the traffic to the front line; there was another possibility which was that for this night another bridge had been completed for traffic by the Organization Todt a few kilometers down stream. of one half of the bridge so that the traffic could go across this bridge that night. I notified the Constabulary that at the beginning of darkness the traffic to the front line could go across the new OT bridge and now I said to Sturmbannfuehrer Nosske that at the beginning of darkness, he could use my bridge for this Jewish column. In the evening between seven and eight, he reappeared with a Kommando, I think there were several vehicles with the Kommando and preparations were made to lead these Jews across this bridge to Bessarabia. There was a difficulty, however, because the Rumanians, particularly the Rumanian bridge kommando on the Bessarabian side had received instructions not to allow these Jews to re-enter Bessarabia. As a consequence of this, this kommando, especially the Rumanian officer in charge, was told a fib. They said that the Rumanian Government had agreed to the retransport of these Jews or something to that effect. In any case, this Rumanian officer left by motorcycle in order to consult with his higher authority and the SD kommando made use of his absence and mounted a machine gun over the Rumanian guard and after dark, about eight o'clock in the evening, or possibly 2015.
the Jewish column was lead towards the bridge without any further difficulties. They were transported to the Bessarabian bank where the Jews were left to themselves. Nosske and his other officers among whom there was the Criminal Commissary in SS or SD uniform from Halle, whose name I had heard before, that these Jews were supposed to have come from Northern Bessarabia and from Bukovina and from northern Rumania. I think Czernowitz was mentioned especially in connection with this, from which these Jews were supposed to have come.