A. Yes, this was done in October, 1942 already.
Q. But you gave it a full line?
A. Well, another treatment was necessary for that tooth.
Q. But you gave it a full line and placed a diagonal in the space which you usually reserved for the price, correct?
A. I don't quite understand what you mean here.
Q. I will call your attention to the first item for which you say there was no charge. Although there is no charge you did make a mark. You placed a symbol of some land within the column intended ordinarily for the price, is that correct?
A. Yes, for this treatment in October, the extraction was char. for.
Q. Well, you do not charge for the first item, do you? You told us that before recess.
A. Yes.
Q. All right, but at the end of the line you placed a mark. like that, a diagonal, which indicates no price, is that correct? Please look at that first line, the first item. Do you see that?
A. Are you talking about the treatment in October?
Q. The first item.
A. During the first treatment, yes, I see it now.
Q. All right. In the column which ordinarily carries the cost of the treatment, you only have a diagonal, like this?
A. Yes.
Q. That means there is no charge, for that, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, please tell us why you didn't make the same kind of a symbol on February 7, for another item which did not call for payment?
A. Well, in the case of the first drilling, the first treatmen, the treatment was continued, the tooth was treated after that.
Q. But when you administered the polishing treatment of Febuary 7, you have not yet decided to charge the man, because the bill didn't go out until April 23, so why didn't you carry the item across the shoot and make the same kind of a mark, as you did above?
A. Well, the treatment had been concluded then. I did not have to do that. Here in this case, the treatment had been concluded and therefore I made the account for the treatment and this entry of the 7th of February then came on the sane line at the totaling.
Q. But the totaling did not come, the totaling did not come immediately. It was two months later, two and a half months later.
A. Yes.
Q. So, therefore, you had plenty of space to put this same kind of a mark, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't know that the patient night not return again in February or March or the first part of April. You had no way of knowing whether he would come back or not?
A. Yes.
Q. So that you wouldn't total the figures until you were ready to send out the bill, would you?
A. No.
Q. Then it is incomprehensible to me why you would have this totaling line which refers to April 23 above the item of February 7.
A. Well, I just said, because it was not charged for, I did not include it.
Q. Very well. Now, you treated from 80 to 100 -- Well, first let me ask you about this last treatment again. Please look at that.
A. What is that' last treatment?
Q. The last one on the card.
A. Those are fillings, two fillings.
Q. Two fillings?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, how much time would the dentist spend with a patient to take care of two fillings?
A. That all depends.
Q. Well, generally.
A. It depends on what kind of a tooth it is, what is the matter with it, how bad it is.
Q. What would be the minimum of time to do one filling?
A. Well, one cannot really say. It depends entirely on the tooth. This was a treatment of the root. There are teeth which take months to treat.
Q. Well, I am only speaking of one visit. Would it last about a half an hour?
A. Well that depends on how long the patient has to wait. We work according to a time schedule, but one can't always keep to that.
Q. Now, please look at that card and indicate generally, since I preseme you are failiar with the various treatments, how much time the patient was in the chair each time he came there.
A. Two fillings?
Q. Two fillings, how long for two fillings?
A. Twenty minutes. Well, that depends again on how much has to be drilled.
Q. All right, and how long for a polishing process?
A. That is very quick, the polishing doesn't take long at all.
Q. Fifteen minutes?
A. No.
Q. Ten minutes?
A. No.
Q. What hind of polishing did you give?
A. Ton minutes or eight minutes, not longer than that.
Q. All right. How much time for the trapaning process which you mentioned, that first item?
A. A trepanation, yes.
Q. A trepanation, yes.
A. That all depends how bad the pain is, what kind of pain the patient has.
Q. You have to drill through a crown, don't you?
A. Yes, the filling has to be taken out first or the crown has to be drilled open, and then it depends.
Q. That would take about a half hour, wouldn't it, for a process of that kind?
A. Well, it is hard to say. Sometimes it is very quick. If the channel is quite free and one can got at the root very easily then it is very quick, but sometimes it takes at least half an hour. quarter of an hour or twenty minutes.
Q. All right, let's say twenty minutes on the average, although that sounds pretty rapid. Take the next item on that card, what is it?
A. That is a temporary filling.
Q. How long would that take, about fifteen or twenty minutes ?
A. Well, for the first temporary filling it takes about ten minutes, but then the channel has to be cleaned up again.
Q. Well, you would say that on the average at least fifteen minutes was given to a visit, wouldn't you? You have one a half hour, another twenty minutes, another ten minutes. A pretty fair agerage would be -
A. No, it is not always like that. Yes, but there are eases when it only takes two minutes or where the temporary filling can be changed very quickly.
Q. It takes two minutes?
A. Every treatment varies.
Q. It takes two minutes just to get in and out of the chair. Tell me what treatment you can dispose of in -
A. Well, I am only talking about the temporary fillings as such done by the doctor.
Q. You tell me what treatment it is that can be done in two minutes. I would, like to know who this dentist is because that is pretty rapid treatment. Tell me what treatment you can do in two minutes?
A. Well, it is very quick. For example, when one changes a temporary filling that is very quick.
Q. You can do that in two minutes?
A. Two to three minutes.
Q. You can do that in three -
A. From the time when the doctor starts.
Q. Hell, altogether from the time that the patient arrives in the office and leaves the office, how much time would expire on the average?
A. Ten minutes.
Q. Ten minutes?
A. Well, from the moment - when the patient sits down in the chair until the moment when he leaves the chair.
Q. That is ten minutes?
A. Ten minutes, on the average.
Q. That is on the average, yes. How many hours a day did you work; how many hours a day did you have your office open?
A. We worked all day. We hardly had. any break for lunch,
Q. Well, all right, how many hours would that be?
A. We started about a quarter to nine and mostly worked through the lunch hour until eight, eight-thirty every evening, every day.
Q. You didn't stop for lunch?
A. We just ate very quickly but then the patients already arrived again.
Q. And the dentist did not stop for lunch?
A. No, I just said hardly. There-were days when we were at rest for an hour but on the whole it was constant.
Q. Well, he would stop for lunch, wouldn't he?
A. Yes, we would eat, of course,
Q. And on the average how much time did you have for lunch perday?
A. Well, sometimes we didn't even have time to sit down because the bell was ringing again, There was nobody else there.
Q. Now, witness, you know that it is absolutely impossible to treat one hundred patients perday every day, day in and day out, allowing for only ten minutes, which is a very small average per patient.
You Know that is impossible, don't you?
A. Well, but there were so many patients.
Q. You treated eighty to one hundred patients every day?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you realize that on the basis of only ten minutes per patient you would have to work sixteen hours continuously per day?
A. Well, I said sometimes it is very quick with some patients. It doesn't even take ten minutes. It is hard to see that, but there were so many Patients.
Q. Well, there were some that would take a half hour?
A. Yes, because of extractions or injections and people who had to wait.
Q. Well, that would lengthen the average, wouldn't it?
A. No, it is vary quick, because the patients which get out again, they just get the injection and in the meantime we can go on treating someone else.
Q. Hay I have the card back? (The exhibit was handed back to the President.) How long did you speak with Mrs. Haensch before you came dorm here to testify?
A. How long?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, it was very quick. She just asked me whether the doctor could write out the certificate.
Q. Everything is done very quickly in your office, conversations, extractions, trepanations, polishings?
A. Certainly.
Q. Yes, and this addition was made very quickly too, wasn't it? this February 7th?
A. No, the additions are made in the evenings and sometimes I even made them on Sundays, I made the bills.
Q. This entry of February 7th was made when?
A. That was made when the patient was there 7 February.
Q. Did you always make the entry the same day that the treatment occurred?
A. Yes.
Q. Without fail?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you please indicate to me what you mean by this angular line which precedes every item? (Indicating)
A. Well, that is the statement concerning the tooth, whether it is on the right or the left or the upper of the lower, and the figure is contained in it.
Q. Well, what does that mean when it is like this (indicting)?
A. That is the left top.
Q. That means the left top. All right.
A. Yes, the left top.
Q. Yes. Now, please tell us which tooth it was which was polished?
A. Well, it was that tooth that had been filled.
Q. Well, left or right, left top, right top?
A. The one that had been treated before.
Q. well, how do you know that?
A. Well, if the tooth is to be polished then only that one is polished which Dr. Maennel has filled.
Q. Do you use this with each item (indicting)?
A. No.
Q. When did you use it and when did you omit it?
A. When that tooth is treated.
Q. When do you use it and when do you omit it? How do you decide when to use this angle and when not to use it?
A. When a tooth is treated the angle is entered and then when it is polished it is not necessary to do so because we know which tooth is to be polished, which one we have filled.
Q. Suppose that you do a trepanation job and then the patient comes back for treatment of that same tooth, do you use the angle?
A. For a trepanation, yes.
Q. When he comes back a second time, do you use that angle?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, you know it is the same tooth, why must you use the mark?
A. Well, for temporary fillings, etc., it is necessary. One just does it.
Q. Well, you use this mark in order to identify a tooth, don't you?
A. Yes.
Q. And you would use that each time the patient arrived, wouldn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. To identify the tooth?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, please tell me why you don't have it as against the February 7th item?
A. Well, this is a polishing operation and we know that Dr. Maennel had treated that tooth.
Q. Well, you knew what he had done in those other instances. It was always the same tooth. Why did you need to identify it each time when it was always the same tooth but yet omit it on the February 7th item?
A. Well, it was never entered for polishing the tooth; the tooth is never marked.
Q. Well, you are merely saying that doesn't explain it. A person comes in end he must have, let us say, the upper seventh -- just to give some number. He gets & treatment, then he comes back again. It is still the upper seventh and you use that line in every instance, don't you?
A. Yes.
Q. How would you compare it against the February 7th item?
A. Well, when it is polished it is not a marked specifically.
Q. He still has to know which tooth to polish, doesn't he?
A. Well, we know. It is written above that.
Q. Well, in those other instances, it is Written above else. Let's have the card. Now take this item of 1 November 1941. Then it is followed by the item of 13th of November. Tell me whether it is the same tooth. Does the second item refer to the same tooth as the first item?
A. Yes.
Q. Why do you use the angle then? You know it is the same tooth.
A. Well, these matters -- those are temporary fillings, etc. and that is usual. That is what one does for fillings and temporary fillings. It is usual that the tooth is marked.
Q. Well when a patient comes in to have a cert in tooth polished because some work had been done to that tooth, the dentist has to know which tooth, doesn't he? He just doesn't polish any tooth at random.
A. No. When a patient comes and asks us that this tooth is to be polished because it is sharp, then the doctor does it but after a continuous treatment, it is not necessary because it is not charged for and it is not usual that the tooth is marked. One simply writes "polishing".
Q. Then your explanation is, the reason you do not use this angle mark is because there Was no charge for it, is that right?
A. Yes, and because it is not the usual practice to mark that tooth when it is only polished.
Q. All right, if you don't make that angle only because there is no charge, why did You make the angle against the first item for which there was also no charge?
A. Well, in the case of the trepanation, the doctor has to know after the second treatment which tooth he has worked a trepanation on.
Q. Well, he has to know also which tooth to polish, doesn't he?
A. Well, we know which tooth we have treated.
Q. Well, wouldn't you know which tooth you had done the trepanation on?
A. Of course, the doctor can see that, but that saves him looking at the tooth again by merely looking at the card. Then he knows what he has treated.
Q. Why does he have to go on a searching expedition to find a tooth which must be polished. why couldn't you put that same item against the polishing operation?
A. Well we know, because on the top seventh on the left he has had a filling, and we know which tooth is to be polished.
Q. Well, why wouldn't you know after a trepanation job which tooth it was that had to be done?
Let us take the third item. On the first time you have done the trepanation job. Then he comes again on the 13th of November, still the same tooth, and you do something else. The he comes on the 26th of November and you treat him again, the same tooth. Then he comes on the 3rd of December and you treat him again. By this time you ought to know which tooth it is, wouldn't you? One, two, three, four, five-you have treated him five times. You know by this time which tooth it is, don't you?
A. Yes.
Q. Then why must you make thisangle each time?
A. Well, because that is the usual practice. One just does it.
Q. Well, why isn't it usual practice when he comes for his other treatment which is the polishing?
A. No. I can only repeat that is a matter -- in most cases, the patients don't come back but many of them do come back and it is simply noted down briefly when the patient has come. It is just noted down that the tooth has been polished.
Q. When he does come back for the polishing, it is important that you polish the right tooth, isn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, if you use the angle line for identification on the other treatments, then why wouldn't it be necessary for the identification of thepolishing job?
A. Well.
Q. When you don't charge, do you use a whole line or not on this card?
A. Well, I have to enter it.
Q. When you mentioned the polishing job, you did not use a whole line because there was no charge, that is right, isn't it?
A. No.
Q. Well, maybe you don't understand the question. When he came on February 7th and had that tooth polished, and you made the entry on the card, you did not give it a whole line on the card because there was no charge, is that correct?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. That is your explanation, isn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. All right, now please tell us why you give a whole line to the treatment of 23 October for which there was also no charge?
A. Well, treatment was continued then. We did not yet know what was to become of the tooth, whether we would have to continue treating the tooth.
Where was I to write about the extraction? I had to start a new line.
Q. You still made no charge for the item? You made no charge for that item?
A. No, the trepanation was not paid for.
Q. So therefore your explanation that the reason you gave only half line to the polishing job of February 7th because there was no payment expected is not the explanation for giving only half a line, is it?
A. This treatment had been concluded at the time, in fact, and therefore I did not hove to leave that line empty and therefore I made the totaling line one line higher up.
Q. But you did not know when you entered the item of February 7 that he was not going to comeback for some other treatment, did you? You couldn't tell whether he was coming back or not?
A. No, after one polishing, one treatment has been concluded.
Q. He could have come back on March 1st for some other kind of treatment, couldn't he?
A. Then he would have had to have pains again.
Q. He could have come back on March 1st for another tooth.
A. Yes, but now the tooth had been looked at and it could not be expected that something would occur, would go wrong.
Q. I said some-other tooth. He could break another tooth.
A. You mean the polishing?
Q. Witness, we have an item here February 7 polishing. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You did not send out a bill until April 23?
A. Yes.
Q. So it was perfectly possible for him to come back in March for some other kind of treatment?
A. Well, if he had come, then of course we would have continued to treat him.
Q. So that you did not total these items until April 23?
A. No, they Were totaled when the bill was sent out.
Q. So you still do not give us an explanation why your totaling line, which was dated April 23, would precede the item of polishing which was February 7?
A. Well -
Q. Anything else you want to add? That is the explanation you had given.
A. No.
THE PRESIDENT: All right, Mr. Hochwald.
MR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, I have no further questions but it would be possibly adviseable that the witness should stay ready until after the testimony of the expert Witness on hand-writing so that further questions which may arise from this testimony could be put to the witness later.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Just one other question which Judge Dixon suggests. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Is the name Haensch a very unusual name in German?
A. I really don't know.
Q. Well, do you know of any other Haensches? Have you ever heard the name in any other connection?
A. No.
Q. But it is possible that there could be someone else called Haensch?
A. Well, I never heard that name and I do not recall any other patients who had that name, Haensch.
Q. But you do not know the defendant Haensch personally, do you?
A. No.
Q. How do you know that the treatments recorded on this card were administered to Walter Haensch, one of the defendants inthis case? You don't know, do you?
A. I beg your pardon.
Q. I will put the question a little more simply. You do not know Walter Haensch, one of the defendants in this case, personally?
A. No.
Q. So that when you talk about Haensch, you talk about the individual who came into your office?
A. Yes.
Q. You do not know whether the individual who came into your office is the same man who s the defendant in this case of your own personal knowledge?
A. No.
Q. We would like to have you remain if you will, available, because you might be called later after we hear another witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Marshal, would you take care of the witness so that she will be comfortable?
Does the defense counsel desire to put any further questions? Very well. DR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, the prosecution would like to call at this time the witness Commander Francois Bayle.
THE PRESIDENT: Let the witness be called.
DR. HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, the witness who is a French citizen will testify in English. he will have an interpreter stand by if he should feel limited in his expressions and therefore need an interpreter.
11 Feb 1948_A_MSD_24_1_Spears (Juelich)
JUDGE DIXON: Will you raise your right hand, please? Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give to the court in this action now on trial shall he the truth, the whole and nothing bu the truth, so help you, God, and do you so swear?
THE WITNESS FRANCOIS BAYLE: I shall swear.
JUDGE DIXON: You may be seated, BY MR. HOCHWALD:
Q. Commander, will you please give the Tribunal your name, your rank, and your official position?
A. My name is Francois Bayle. and my rank is Commander in the Medical Corps of the French Navy.
THE PRESIDENT: Commander, please spell your second name.
THE WITNESS: My first name is Francois __F_R_A_N_C_O_I_S. My last name is Bayle __ B_A_Y_L_E.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: I am Commander in the Medical Corps of the French Navy, and a specialist of Neuro-psychiatry. BY MR. HOCHWALD:
Q. Go on.
A My education and training are the following. After two first years of medical studies begun in Paris, I entered the main Naval Medical School in Bordeaux, received my doctor of medicine degree and state examination in 1928, interne in 1929, became assistant doctor in the neurological and psychiatric clinic in Toulon, and received the degree of specialist for hospitals in this field in 1936. I was for four years the director of the applied psychology center of the naval laboratory in Toulon, and later on directed an institute for applied psychology in Claimant University. In the same time I took my degrees in philosophy. I always have been interested in handwriting, which from the very beginning appeared to me as the recording of the numerous and delicate gestures through which everyone 11 Feb 1948_A_MSD_24_2_Spears (Juelich) expresses his main characteristics.
The value of these analyses of handwriting is proved by the more fact that no handwriting looks like another.
Q. May I interrupt you for a moment, Commander? Can you tell the Tribunal whether, if any experience you have as a court expert as to handwriting?
A. I had approximately 12 years experience in the experimental study of handwriting. My expert training in these fields started in 1935, and consisted in the study and application of the works of the two main specialist, French specialists --I mean in this field. Crepieux_Jamain and Carton. Crepieux_Jaimain's works on the question are known the world over, and he is considered as the creator of modern scientific handwriting study. Has man works which are wellknown to me are the following: Practical Treating of Graphology, Handwriting and Characters, Fundamental Basis of Graphology. Age and Sex in Handwriting, Elements of Scoundrel Handwriting. ABC of Graphology. and so forth. I have been also a direct and personal pupil of his coworker, Dr. Carton, who died three months ago and who wrote in particular, Mentally Diagnosing by Handwriting, Diagnosis and Conduct of Temperaments, Medical Arts. Keys of Individual Diagnosis, and thirty important works books. Since 1935 I have used my knowledge of handwriting in performing such work. Moreover, I was utilized last year during the medical case as an expert the study of one handwriting during the medical case. out of some files under the heading, "Dr. Haensch, Hartmannsweller Weg 16?" I will hand you the card. all the entries with the exception of one, the date of which I do not know, but if you would hand me the card, I can tell it to you-with the exception of an entry which appears on the date of 26 November 1941, 11 Feb 1948_A_MSD_24_3_Spears (Juelich) that she has written all the entries herself.
She has further testified that the entry on the third line of the card, which appears opposite of the printed word "telephone" was written "by her in January 1948. I ask you, according to your expert opinion, is it correct that all entries, with the exception of the entry of 26 November were written by the same person, and is it further correct that the entry of the 26th November was written by someone else? I must say first that it is admitted in handwriting specialists' circles that the establishment of 10 species permits the identity and figuration of a given handwriting among hundreds of thousands of others. Without the slightest difficulty, I was able to gather 11 species for the violet handwriting and 15 different species for the black-blue one. hose species being, of course, different, and notwithstanding the possible species, they might have in common, each specie belongs to one of the seven following genus; speed, pressure, form, dimension, direction, contintuity, and arragnement. If we consider first the violet handwriting, which concerns the third line in front of the German, word "telephone" and the entry which appears in front of the date then of February 1942, I any say that this handwriting belongs in all probability to the same and only person and presents the 11 following species: the speed is fast; the pressure is sharpened, explosive, and this; the form is round, the dimension is irregular, and even-elevated; the direction is straight and centrifugal; the continutiy is very poorly organized; and the arrangement is loose. If we consider now the blue and black handwriting, I may point out 15 different species, and these species being absolutely different of the 11 ones which have just been described. That is to say, for the speed; the speed is reserved, inhibited, restrained, well something like inhibited, a variety of inhibited. The pressure is regularly conducted, thick, heavy_set. The form is large and arched. Dimension is low, inflated, and equal. The direction is rigid, slightly bent.
11 Feb 1948_A_MSD_24_4_Spears (Juelich) The continuity is slightly organized and the Arrangement is ordered. The conclusion of the pointing out of the 11 species for the violet ink and the 15 different species for the two others -- the conclusion is that with a scientific certainty two persons, at least have written these handwritings. can you tell with certainty to the Tribunal that the entry which appears opposite the printed word "Telephone" and the entry which allegedly was made on 7 February 1942 were made by the same person?
A Yes. It is absolutely my opinion and when I have described the 11 species made with the violet ink, I did not discriminate, and in my opinion the same and only person wrote the word "Sven Hedin Platz 8" and "7 Feburary - POL", which I suppose to be "polishing" and I have to precise one thing, that this violet handwriting includes a pretty rare variety of the spasmodic specie. This variety is the explosive specie which can be seen on both entries, first in front of the word "Telephone' and secondly in front of the entry of the 7th of February. This explosive specie Consists of a vigorous and short pressure described for the first time in the "Diagnosis and Conduct of Temperaments" by Dr. Paul Carton, whose first edition was published in Paris in 1926. This very peculiar variety concerns and extremely sensitive subject who reacts by violent, certain and short projection of strength, with violent, spasmodic reactions, but these reactions being checked at once, and restrained by the self-control, and this very rare specie appears, as I have said, in the entries of the violet ink and, on the other hand, it does not appear on any of the other entries. And the blue and black handwriting. in all probability, with perhaps one or two exeptions which can be precised, belongs to the one and same person. possibility that the two entries with violet ink were made by the same person who wrote the other entries?
11 Feb 1948_A_MSD_24_5_Spears (Juelich) not the same as the one who made the other entries. certain dates which indicate when these entries were made. Can you tell the Tribunal whether it is your opinion that these entries were made at those dates which are indicated on the chart? written at the top of the chart in front of the printed word "telephone" are written with the violet ink. They seem to have been written much more recently than the two first lines in blue ink and the three first entries of 1341, that is to say. at a later date than they are supposed to. They are supposed not to have been written more than three months later. Furthermore, the three entries with the black ink appearing just before the entry of the 7th of February '42 seem much more recent than, the corresponding dates, December '41 and January '42.