As far as the index is concerned, one has to deduce that this is the report of a committee which was set up by the inmates of the camp themselves. It says here in the index at page 138, "Report of the International Camp Committee, pages 39 to 109." One can understand from this index that it is not the report of one of the Allied Nations which, according to Ordinance Number 7 of Military Government, may be used by this Tribunal as evidence. This is just the private work of former inmates, who can not submit this to this Tribunal as evidence.
MR. ROBBINS: I believe that the affidavit with the document shows that it is a government report. I can determine that in just a moment.
The certificate with the document simply states that it is an excerpt from a publication, "International Camp Committee Report." I should like to withdraw the offer of evidence at this time and determine the nature of the international Camp Committee. I should, however like to reserve to the Document the Exhibit number that was given to it.
THE PRESIDENT: I am very sorry. I did not get what you said, Mr. Robbins. You withdrew 379?
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, I should like to reserve the Exhibit number, however until I can determine the nature of the International Camp Committee.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: 379 or 380 you withdrew?
MR. ROBBINS: 379, Your Honor. 380 is a letter from Maurer to the commanders of the various concentration camps, asking for details report on the training of prisoners.
On page 126 I offer Document MI 382, which is the affidavit on the defendant Pohl, which states-
DR. SEIDL: Your Honor, the document MI 382 is also not in our document book. Therefore, as I requested before, I hope that the Prosecution will give us the photostatic copies of that document as soon as possible.
MR. ROBBINS: I offer that document only provisionally then.
It simply sets out the names of certain industries which employed concentration camp labor.
The last document in this book had already been offered as Exhibit 68. That is document 1584-PS.
I should like to turn to Document Book, 14 which deals with a new subject matter, and I am glad to report that all of the documents are in the English document book, and I believe that they are all in the German document book for a change.
The first document is 1205, affidavit by Pohl, which I offer as Exhibit 382. The translation in English is not complete, and I will supply the court with a complete copy. The part that is missing is the part that deals with the description of some of the Amts in Amtsgruppe W.
At page 5 I offer NO 551 as Exhibit 383.
DR. SEIDL. Your Honor, the document NO 1205 does not seem to be complete at all. Apparently the introduction is missing, which gives the names of the witness, and therefore I would like to request the Prosecution that the original of the document be shown to me.
Your Honor, I have just found out that in the criminal, also, the usual introduction of the affidavit is missing. It does not show either the document or that the affidavit is sworn to.
MR. ROBBINS: Your Honor, I would like to withdraw the offer of this document. It is not an important one. We'll just skip this one.
THE PRESIDENT: Withdraw the Exhibit?
MR ROBBINS: I withdraw the offer.
THE PRESIDENT: And cancel the exhibit number.
DR. BELZER (Counsel for defendant Sommer): Your Honor, I have just found out that Document Book 14, has not been given to me so far. I would appreciate it if you would permit me to bring any objections that should occur a little bit later, as soon as I get my document book.
THE PRESIDENT: You will have the right to make any objection you wish later 653
MR. ROBBINS: I offer the document at Page 3, NO-551, as Exhibit 382. This is a memorandum by the Defendant Pohl, and it sets out the names of industries under the SS, and it gives the department or office group under which each of the industries fall. The first one there is the DWB under Staff W, and then this document shows that the Osti industry was also under Staff W, which is the sixth industry listed there. The next industry listed after Osti is the German Earth & Stone Works, DEST, which is under Amtsgruppe W-1, and under W-2 is shown the Klinker Zement also the Golleschauer PortlandZement Company. Under "-3 on the next page is shown various food industries under the SS. Under "-4 -
DR. GAWLIK (For Defendants Volk and Bobermin): May I see the original document, your Honor? Your Honor, I just find out that the original document is not signed either. There is no signature whatsoever on it. It is nothing but a photostatic copy of the document.
MR. ROBBINS: The document that we have is a carbon copy, and it is signed the Chief of the WVHA, SS Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the Waffen SS. The certificate shows it is a captured document.
THE PRESIDENT: In spite of the fact that it is not signed, the person who wrote it can be identified by his title.
MR. ROBBINS: Under Amtsgruppe W-4 is shown first the DAW, which is the enterprise controlling the work shops in the concentration camp. Under W-5 is the German experimental station for nutrition, under W-6, various textile firms, under W-7, Nordland Publishing Company, Limited. The balance of the document describes in more detail the nature of each of those industries.
At page 14, I offer document NO-2116 as Exhibit 383. This is another memorandum giving the names of the various plants under the WVHA and Amtsgruppe W. Also it gives the names of various managers. Among them are listed Pohl, Loerner, Volk, Mummenthey, Bobermin, also the Defendant Klein. 654 At Page 19, I offer Document NO-1039 as Exhibit 384.
The first part of the document is a draft by the Defendant Hohberg of a letter sent to Pohl to be approved and sent on to Himmler. The first part is identical with Exhibit 382. The letter at page 22 of the document book signed by Hohberg says, "Enclosed please find the desired survey of the economic enterprises of the WVHA," and the part of the document following that is also similar to Document 382 up to page 28. Then from 29 through page 33 of the document there appears unfinished work of Staff-W, and it is also signed by Hohberg.
I might say that this first series of documents in the SS industries is designed to show the nature of the W staff, members of which were Volk, Hohberg and Baier.
At page 34, I offer document NO-1261 as Exhibit 385. This is a memorandum from the Defendant Volk to the Defendant Pohl, dated the first of September, regarding the reorganization of offices, Amt 3-A. Amt 3-A was a precursor to office group W. Therein is a reference to the German Clay and Brick Works, porcelain manufacturies, Allach/ Munich, and other industries under Pohl. On the second page industries under 3-B and 3-C are referred to. Office group 3 was renamed office group W.
On page 38 I offer Document NO-1019 as Exhibit 386. This is a letter from Goering to Himmler dated the 26th of August, 1941. The first part of the first paragraph reads: "In order to fulfill the task given to me by the Fuehrer, namely to exploit the economic capacities of and the stocks found in the newly occupied Eastern territories to the utmost in the interest of the German war economy, I see myself forced to centralize and direct strictly all the economic power of the Eastern territory."
At page 41, I offer Document NO-2133 as Exhibit 387. This is a letter from Maurer to the Defendant Georg Loerner stating that Pohl has decided that the Stutthof concentration camp site will be purchased. In paragraph 2 of the letter he states, "The area used and built up by the camp now is to be bought.
Negotiations about the sale are conducted by Dr. Volk and me." This shows another function of Staff "in the negotiation for the concentration camp sites in which SS industries were to be located. In paragraph 3 he says, "Negotiations about this sale of the property are, conducted by Dr. Volk with the Chief of Office 1.
"4. With regard to the order of the Reichsfuehrer SS, Stutthof shall have a capacity of 25,000 inmates." It is signed by Maurer of Amtsgruppe D.
The following document at page 43, NO-2159, I offer as Exhibit 388. This is a memorandum to Baier and Volk signed by Dr. Hofmann of the legal section of the WVHA regarding concentration camp Stutthof. It refers in the first paragraph to the fact that after the transfer of the real estate of the Stutthof concentration camp to the German Economic Enterprises, the DWB, that certain legal procedure must be carried out.
At page 46, I offer Document NO-1287 as Exhibit 389. This is a letter dated the 29th of January '42 signed by Kammler of Amtsgruppe C, and it concerns the support of the aluminum foundry at Fallersleben. The SS is to supply the workers, the document says. The document also indicates that Loerner, Kammler, Hohberg and Porsche took part in the conferences.
The following document has already been offered.
DR. KRAUSS (For Defendant Tschentscher): Your Honor, I have to inform you of the fact that Document Book No. 14 also has only been submitted to the defense information room in the course of this afternoon, and furthermore that the greatest part of the books have not been distributed or had not been distributed to the defense counsels. Therefore, we are not in a position to know the contents of this book. I wish to draw your attention to the fact that the twenty-four hours arranged for has not been kept up for the second time. I shall leave it up to this Tribunal to draw its own conclusions from this fact.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Robbins, there appear to be so many instances in which something hasn't been completed, I wonder if we would really save time if we would give you over the week-end to get this document book in order and give the defense what they are entitled to? If it is just a matter of using the time, it perhaps could be better used in getting the book in order.
MR. ROBBINS: I think that is very well, your Honor. I believe that this document book, however, is complete. It is entirely complete in English, and I was told that it was complete in German as well as in English. However, if the defendants insist on that point -
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal is of the opinion that the Defense is put at too great a handicap in taking these exhibits provisionally and that perhaps your own task will be facilitated if you have a chance to organize this book in a little more complete manner.
MR. ROBBINS: Very well.
THE PRESIDENT: We will recess, then, until Monday morning at 9:30.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 21 April 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal II in the matter of the United States of America against Oswald Pohl, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 21 April 1947, 0930-1630, Justice Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: All persons present in the court room please take your seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Tribunal No. 2 Military Tribunal No. 2 is now in session.
God Save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the court.
MR. ROBBINS: Your Honor, the prosecution would like to call Dr. Engler as a witness. I think, however, that he is not here yet. He will be here any moment and until he comes I would like to go ahead and present some documents.
THE PRESIDENT: One of the defendants is not here, the Defendant Fanslau. We understand he has been taken back to the jail for some medical attention.
The Marshal reports that the defendant has had some difficulties with his eyes and is afflicted with dizziness and will probably not be physically able to attend this session of court. The record will show his absence and the order of the Tribunal that we proceed in his absence.
MR. ROBBINS: We understand that the witness Engler is outside.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness, Engler, the Marshall will please bring that witness to the court room.
HERBERT ENGLER, a witness took the stand and testified as follows:
BY JUDGE SPEIGHT:
Q Will you raise your right hand and repeat after me:
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE SPEIGHT: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q Witness, your name is Herbert Engler, E-N-G-L-E-R?
A Yes.
Q And where are you living at the present time?
A I did not understand your question.
(The interpreter repeated the question.)
A I am now living at Frankfurt am Main.
Q And what is your address there, please?
A Poggenheimer Landstrassd 37.
Q Where and when were you born, Dr. Engler?
A On the 21st of June, 1902, in Schwieburg.
Q That is in Germany?
A Yes, that is in Germany in Brandenburg.
Q And you are a German citizen?
A Yes, I am a German citizen.
Q You received your Doctorate of Law from the University of Rostock in 1924?
A Yes.
Q And what is your present position?
A I didn't understand that.
(The interpreter repeated the question.)
A I am a Ministerial Counselor in the Hessian Labor Ministry.
Q That is Ministerialrat in the Ministry for Labor for Hessian?
A Yes, I'm in charge of the Department for Labor.
Q And you are immediately under the Ministry of Labor for Hessian?
In my department I'm the representative of the Hessian Ministry of Labor.
Q And before the war you were an attorney?
A No, I was an industrial lawyer and lawyer for a corporation and in this capacity I was a representative of the Employers' Association.
Q And have you written several books on legal subjects, Doctor?
A I have written seven books and they mainly deal with labor questions.
Q When were you arrested first, Doctor?
A I was arrested on the 2d of March, 1933.
Q And for what reason were you arrested?
AAt that time I was living at Hamburg and I tried to bring about the general strike and to thus prevent the coming into power of Hitler.
Q You were then an officer of the Socialistic Democratic Party of Germany.
A I was a functionary of that Socialistic Democratic Party, that is correct.
Q And how long were you hold at that time by the police?
AAt that time, the arrest was only very short, that is, only a few weeks.
Q Were you interrogated and beaten?
A Yes, the police arrested me at Hamburg, but it was the SA who mistreated me and beat me.
Q And between that time and 1940 what happened to you, Doctor?
A In 1940 I was arrested, that is, on the 20th of March.
Q On the 20th of March, you were arrested by whom?
A I was arrested by the officials of the Gestapo office at Frankfurt.
Q And for what reason?
A Because I had slammed the reputation of the Gestapo in a very strong manner.
Q Will you repeat that, please?
A I damaged the reputation of the Gestapo in a very considerable manner.
Q And were you also attempting to help Jews obtain their release from concentration camps?
A Yes, during this period, that is in 1938 and 1939, I succeeded in having 71 Jews and non-Jews released from concentration camps because I paid money to the Gestapo officials. That was from the concentration camps of Buchenwald and Sachsenhausen that I got the release of these Jews.
Q Did that have anything to do with your arrest?
A Yes, it was just that I was arrested because of that.
Q Were you given a trial?
A Yes, I was brought to the Special Court at Frankfurt.
Q And what happened there?
A In October 1940, during the proceedings before the Special Court at Frankfurt I was acquitted.
Q Then what was done with you?
A Then I was not released from custody and I was transferred to the concentration camp of Sachsenhausen at Oranienburg.
Q You were tried and acquitted by the Special Court at Frankfurt and then sent to Sachsenhausen, is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q What was the date of your being sent to Sachsen hausen?
AAs far as I remember I was brought on the 3rd of February, 1941, to the concentration camp of Sachsenhausen.
Q About how many inmates were in Sachsenhausen?
AAccording to my estimate the figure of the inmates at that time was twelve to fifteen thousand.
Q What kind of work were you doing in Sachsenhausen in the years '41 and '42?
A Consequently I was first a worker in the brick works and then in the earth and then I was constructing houses in the DAW and then I was a clerk in the DAW and shortly later I was for a short time legal advisor of the inmates in the Clerk Department of Sachsenhausen.
Q Can you give us some idea of the working conditions that prevailed in the Dest industries during 1941 and 1942 when you were there?
A The working and living conditions during the years 1941 and 1942 were in the camps of Sachsenhausen very bad.
Q Was beating a frequent occurrence?
A The inmates were beaten by the SS guards and by the Capos, that is, the foremen. They were beaten by them and mistreated.
Q And did you usually have to work double time?
A Well, the working hours, as far as I remember, at that time were 12 hours and there was one hour for the noon recess.
Q And did you have to work at a fast tempo?
AAt that time they still worked at the regulation that we had to work double time.
Q Do you know, from your own knowledge, whether workers were worked to death and beaten to death?
A I have seen these in the Klinker Works at Oranienburg, I have seen the inmates by the SS and also by the Capos were beaten and were treated in such a manner that they either died right away or they died after they were sent to the concentration camp hospital.
Q Was the food which was given these workers in the Dest industries sufficient?
A Food, if you consider this happy word, was not sufficient.
Q Did you see the workers become sick and die from undernourishment and overwork?
A I have seen that especially tall and strong men who usually need more food than others, that is small men, that these men very quickly reached a physical condition which made it necessary that they be sent to the concentration camp hospital and a part of them died and that was concerned mainly with the water, because the food, the prison food which was given there was mainly soup; there was a lack of food and water, was formed, if I may call it that as a layman, and the main part of the inmates died because of that reason.
Court No. II, Case No. IV.
Q Did you see workers eating grass for food?
A Yes, the inmates went to get beets from the field without permission. They ate raw potatoes. They ate whatever they could lay their hands on in the way of food, whatever looked like food.
Q Was the work carried on out of do**s, winter and summer as well?
A Yes, the work was mainly done in the open air aside from the brick works and the workshops. There we had to work in the halls.
Q Was the clothing for the workers sufficient?
A No, it was not sufficient because there was only one suit put at their disposal; and if, for instance, it rained and the clothing became wet, then on the next morning you had to get into this wet clothing.
Q Then at the beginning of 1943 were you assigned to work in a ceramic factory in Sachsenhausen?
A Yes, I worked in a ceramic workshop inside the camp.
Q What kind of work was carried out there?
A There we used clay to produce ceramic products, for instance, plates and cups.
Q For whom were these plates and cups produced?
A They were to be produced for members of the SS.
Q Did you ever see Oswald Pohl at this workshop?
A During my activity at that time Oswald Pohl, then Obergruppenfuehrer, visited the ceramic workshops once.
Q Will you describe that visit?
A Yes. The Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, at that time Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, only came in to our workshop, looked at the ceramic cups, and asked what the people there were doing. Since the Hauptsharfuehrer who was my boss was not present at the workshop, I therefore explained to Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl the production.
Q Do you know whether Pohl received objects from this workshop?
A I couldn't tell you that.
Q How long were you working in the ceramic works?
A I think that I can remember that it was five or six months.
Court No. II, Case No. IV.
Q Then what did you do?
A Then I fell ill and was sent to the hospital. When I was released from the hospital, I became legal adviser for the inmates.
Q Legal adviser for the inmates?
A Yes, legal adviser for the inmates.
Q Of what kind of work did that consist?
A I dealt with the trial matters of civilian character for the inmates, that is, the lawsuits. It was complained from the outside that they didn't comply with their obligations in questions of divorce and so on.
Q Had there been any legal adviser for the inmates in Sachsenhausen before?
A No, not before.
Q For how long a period did you hold that position?
A I held this position only for about three weeks.
Q What happened to you?
A In the exercise of these activities of mine, I reported to the first chief of camp concerning the very bad conditions in the hospital at the concentration camp Sachsenhausen.
Q You reported that to whom?
A To the commanding chief of the camp. He was Sturmbannfuehrer Gruenewald.
Q What did you say in your report?
A In this report I showed the conditions as they had been explained to me by the inmates; and I passed on the description which had been given me by the inmates.
Q What were those conditions? Can you give us some idea?
A Well, I could only say that at that time I was of the opinion, having reaching this conclusion from the testimony of the inmates, that the death of many inmates was the result of the wrong treatment of many of them by the camp doctors and by the inmates who were either inmate doctors or nurses, male nurses.
Court No. II, Case No. IV.
Q Can you give us some idea of the rate of deaths in Sachsenhausen at that time?
A If I remember correctly, at that time at Sachsenhausen we had an average of eight to nine hundred deaths per month.
Q From what did those deaths result, Doctor?
A I have already told you that it was the result of the heavy work, which was not at all proportionate to the food they got; and it was also the result of the diseases which were prevalent because of the poor food situation.
Q Were the main work details in Sachsenhausen carried out in the DEST industries at that time, in the Deutsche Erd und Steinwerke?
A Who did this work, did you ask?
Q I am asking if the principal work details in Sachsenhausen were carried out in the DEST industries at the time you made your report.
A Well, the work details for the Klinker Works or, better, in the brick works of Oranienburg were sent out by the main camp because at that time the so-called Klinker Camp didn't yet exist. That means a working detail was sent out. If I remember well, it consisted of about 1500 to 2000 male inmates.
Q As a result of the report which you made on the conditions in Sachsenhausen, what happened to you?
A I was sent down to the dark cell, to the bunker; and there I was interrogated. I was interrogated by the camp commander and by the SS doctors, who were represented by the first and second camp doctor, Sturmbannfuehrer Gruenewald, and also by a tribunal officer who had the rank of an SS Untersturmfuehrer.
Q You were given a trial in the concentration camp?
A No, that was what they called an "S" proceedings.
Q What were the charges brought against you?
A I was said to have presented the conditions in a manner which did not correspond to the truth.
Q What was your sentence as a result of the trial?
Court No. II, Case No. IV.
AAfter the tribunal officer had tried to intimidate me, telling me that I should take my testimony which had been handed over to the Sturmbannfuehrer and destroy this testimony and that I should declare that it had not corresponded to the truth and wasn't true or that at least I had made an error, then during these proceedings I also refused to modify my statement and refused to destroy my testimony.
Q Were you beaten?
A I was only beaten by members of the SS who had brought me to the bunker.
Q Were you then sentenced to work in the Klinker Works at Oranienburg?
AAfter I had refused the order by the tribunal and had rejected the competence of the tribunal because defendants had been judges in this tribunal, I was then sentenced to concentration camp for life and sentenced to be brought in to the Klinker Punitive Company.
Q Was this Klinker Punitive Company under the Deutsche Erd und Steinwerke Industrie?
A The Klinker Punitive Company was a detachment inside the camp. It was not under the orders of the DEST but under the orders of the camp commander.
Q This was called the Klinker SK, was it?
A Yes, it was called Klinker SK. That is the abbreviation of Klinker Punitive Company, Klinker Strap Companie.
Q Would you say that this was not under Amtsgruppe I of the WVHA?
A No, that was not under the Amtsgruppe I. This punitive company was under the orders of the camp commander.
Q About what was the death rate in this punitive company?
AAt that time the death rate was very high. The living and working conditions inside the punitive company were, I may well say, very, very bad.
Court No. II, Case No. IV.
Q Can you give us some idea how many people died?
A There were many deaths occurred insofar as they wanted to be changed during work, and they were shot by the SS Guards when they went through the guards.
Q What kind of work was carried out here?
A Only stone work was done. In other words, transfer of stones and unloading of stones.
Q How long were you in this Punitive Company?
A I remained in this Punitive Company for about four months.
Q Then to where were you transferred?
A I was withdrawn from the Punitive Company because of my bad physical condition, and I was relieved, and then I was again detailed to a Mason Company. There I was to work as a mason in the tunnel works, and I had to repair furnaces of which there were twenty-four in the camp.
Q Was this under the Dest Industry?
A The Dest Work Company, that was a working company to the Dest.
Q What was the operation of the Dest Company at Sachsenhausen and at Oranienburg in 1943 and 1944, Doctor?
A I do not quite understand. What kind of work?
Q Yes, what was the extent of the Dest Industries operations in Sachsenhausen?
A Well, the operations were of bricks that were produced, then, and furthermore, in and around Oranienburg there was a works to work on the stones which went into Department 0-2, and for which stones were prepared in order to be used for soldiers halls, which were to be erected at Berlin after the war. That was the preparing of stones from Swedish granite.
Q You have already described the working conditions that prevailed during 1941 and 1942 at the Dest Plants. Can you say whether or not those conditions continued to prevail throughout 1943 and to the end of the war in the Dest Industries?
Court No. II, Case No. IV.
A Well, a difference has to be made between the years until the beginning of 1943. Until that time the treatment was worse than in the year of '43, and to the end, and the reasons were that at that time the SS Guards had been changed, and other guards had been sent who had been detailed by the Army, by the Air Force, and by the Navy, and these guards were mainly of the elder people who did not mistreat the inmates in such manner as to reach the degree to such an extent as the SS guards had before done. The SS guards had been there until 1943.
Q Can you say from your own knowledge that up until the end of the war people or workers were worked to death, died from undernourishment, and overwork?
A In the year of 1943, as I already said, until 1945 the treatment of the inmates was not the same any more, and the exercising in the worse way by beating to death, or by shooting, and also in general by mistreating of any kind were not existing to such an extent any more.
Q After you were transferred out of the brick works in the Dest in 1943, where did you go?
A I already said that then after I had been a furnace mason for some time, I then went under the service of the camp elder, who was a friend of mine in Frankfurt. I was then transferred to the legal department of the Dest, which at that time was in the administrative barracks at Oranienburg, or one of the administrative barracks, and I was transferred there, that is, detailed there.
Q What kind of work did you do in the legal department of the Dest?
A I drafted contracts. I dealt with correspondence. I dictated mail, and also I did work which normally would have been done by the legal adviser of the combine.
Q What correspondence did you have an opportunity to see while you were there, what kind of correspondence?
A Well, there was mail which dealt with the different work of the Dest, and which went to the WVHA with the Staff-B.
Q During this time did you have an opportunity to see the defend Court No. II, Case No. IV.
ant Mummenthey?
A I saw the defendant Mummenthey during that period.
Q And how often did you see Mummenthey?
A I saw him often. I saw him when, for instance, I got orders from the Stone Processing Works, where later on the legal department of the Dest was located, or if I brought mail over from that department to the administrative barracks of the main brick works, which already Obersturmbannfuehrer Mummenthey had the supervision as first chief of Staff B-1.
Q Did you see him once a week or once a month?
A I may have seen him twice or three times per month. Once I saw him, that is, in the Stone Processing Works while he inspected the legal department there, and then I visited him once when there had been a complaint about me by the SS.
Q Of what did this complaint concern?
A I was said to have been impertinent to the legal reporter, Dr. Schneider.
Q Where was Mummenthey's office in relation to the concentration camp of Sachsenhausen?
A The then Obersturmbannfuehrer Mummenthey was chief of the office W-1.
Q And where was his office located, physically?
A His offices of his administration, as I have already said, were located in the administrative barracks, which was located in the large brick works of Oranienburg.
Q Was it inside or outside the concentration camp?
A That was outside the concentration camp, but the barracks all the same were surrounded by guards.
Q About how far outside was the office from the camp?
A Well, maybe one-hundred to two-hundred yards. I could not tell you the exact distance there.
Q And where was your office in relation to Mummenthey's office?