Jews into the extermination camps and that Hoess at Auschwitz, or in Birkenau respectively near Auschwitz, carried out that extermination.
Q. Hoess alone couldn't do that, could he? There was the gas chamber for the extermination and the crematoria necessary.
A Yes.
Q We assume that gas chambers do not grow like trees in the woods, they have to be built. Anyway, I would like to ask you who built the gas chambers according to your belief?
AAt the time it was with Hoess or the head leader at the camp, I asked the question about it whereupon I was told that special inmates construction detail had been used for the construction of that and also a special department for the construction men.
Q Let me tell you more explicitly of the horror that was there. The prosecution will bring a series of documents for rebuttal purposes which will show very clearly who built the gas chambers. In order to make quite clear, they were built by Amtsgruppe C. There is a correspondence between Bischoff and Kammler in Auschwitz. The DAW also participated in the building of those chambers. A whole series of W enterprises were participated in. The gas chambers were built and kept in a going condition by using all the means at the disposal of the WVHA. Did you hear about it witness?
A No, the internal files of the WVHA as to this question were not available to me.
Q In spite of that you saw the gas chambers on one occasion.
A Yes.
Q I saw them too and the gas chambers at Auschwitz are extremely modernly built. These gas chambers had electric lifts and special furnaces and they were built supremely. If it is placed before your eyes that experts were working there who drew up the plans and set up everything and they further developed matters, if you furthermore think civilian firms were working there, for instance S. Topf und Soehne, and if you realize in a large measure the technical measures were necessary and a lot of things were constructed, then you can really tell me there was no such thing as too much secrecy?
A Yes, I'll tell you about it, Mr. Ponger. Just a moment, this establishment, in my opinion, was not very modern, at least not too complicated, but at least a very simple construction, because the socalled gas chambers were simple cellars which had been built with cement; the installations were rather primitive and the gas was inserted in a crystoline manner through a special shaft which went from above down below. Therefore, they were installations which one could have built with their own means at their disposal with a few tools. It was something entirely different with the crematoria possibly , but according to the entire methods with which things were kept secret in the Third Reich, I don't believe that the concentration camp of Auschwitz ordered approximately 100 crematoria with some firm or gave to any other firm any sort of an order, which is rather striking, Mr. ponger. Perhaps you are better orientated about it than I am.
Q The firm S. Topf und Soehne had a man who was at Auschwitz constantly who was supervising the construction of the crematoria. The name of the man is Pruefer -
DR. HAENSEL: I am under the impression that the questions and answers are all mixed up between the witness and the prosecution and I believe the Prosecution says more than the witness. I should perhaps suggest that if short questions are asked the witness can give more information I believe you call these questions "leading" questions, or something of that nature.
THE PRESIDENT: I think you realize the doctor has an objection there?
MR. PONGER: Yes, I do.
THE PRESIDENT: If you do relate a long story, rising from your personal knowledge, the least you can do is to ask the witness whether or not it is correct.
MR. PONGER: Yes indeed. Thank you, Your Honor.
Q How then, this morning, Witness, you testified in detail how there were so many death cases in the camps. In one of your affidavits you also testified that the WVHA had no possibilities whatsoever to order executions and that this was absolutely up to the RSHA, the Reich Security Main Office, is that correct?
A Yes, according to my knowledge, yes. From a purely legal point of view the WVHA did not have that possibility. The WVHA had the administration of the inmates, but they were not to decide about the fate of the inmates.
Q Witness, do you know anything about the disciplinary authority of the camp commander?
A Yes.
Q Do you know that he had the rights, in case inmates should try to escape, in case the inmates should resist regulations, that he had the right to demand their execution immediately?
A During my investigation which I carried out there was no such regulation. However, later on towards the end of the war when the signs of collapse increased such an order was intended to be issued.
Q Did you ever read some of those camp regulations?
A Yes.
Q Do you know that every SS man had the right to immediately shoot an inmate in case he shouldn't carry out one of his orders, and in case he should attack one of the SS men and in case he should try to escape?
A Yes, indeed, but that is a matter of course. When an inmate attacks one of the guards, then, of course, the guard has to defend himself.
Q Do you know of many cases when inmates attacked some of the guards of the SS?
A Yes, indeed. I do remember two cases from Buchenwald where inmates attacked two of the guards from behind and knocked them down.
Q They were hanged?
A Yes. Yes, that is a famous case.
Q Now then, do you know any cases where that passage of the camp regulation was used as an excuse in order to kill inmates?
A Would you please be more precise in your question?
Q During the investigations which were carried out, did you at any time find out that inmates were not actually escaping, but they were only forced to try to escape, and they were shot down, or then they were told, or it was stated that they attacked some guard or that the inmate did not comply with some regulation that had been issued?
A The two later reasons, I mean for the execution, or punishment of crimes I really don't know, but as far as the shootings while trying to escape are concerned, investigating I found out that numerous cases had occurred which were nothing but pure raw-blooded murders, and which were also charged against the defendants as murders.
Q Do you realize now that the inmate who was dead no longer cared whether the guard shot him because he wanted it or because the RSHA wanted it, do you realize that, Witness?
A Yes, of course; but that was not your question, Mr. Ponger.
Q Yes, but let me come back now because there is quite a series of such questions here where you can tell that quite a few death cases occurred in the camp.
A May I give you a few figures about that, Herr Ponger, if you would like me to?
DR. HOFFMANN: Your Honor, I just want to interrupt for just one second. I believe I dealt with the question of death rates today together with the witness, but I don't believe I dealt with them to a conclusion, and the reason why I stopped the questioning was a decision on my own part, because now only I am realizing that the testimony as given by the witness in this connection, after the Prosecution - after a few points which the witness brought out yesterday were confirmed today by the Prosecutor, yesterday it looked as if the witness by confronting or being confronted with such facts, for instance the case with the radio and the broadcasts, and that the witness testified to those things in a one-sided manner, this was neither the witness's nor my intention; but in order to come back to the death rate question, if the witness should make additional information and recall additional information now about the death rates, then at least he should have made that statement, those statements during my direct examination, but I did not ask him any further questions in order to shorten the examination.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if this seems important to you, Mr. Ponger, you may go into it briefly.
MR. PONGER: Yes.
BY MR. PONGER:
Q You also mentioned that the death rates, in spite of the efforts on the part of the camp physician and the competent officers to stop certain epidemics could not be stopped.
A Yes.
Q Confronted now with the fact that all camp physicians who could be used were sentenced to death and that Dr. Lolling committed suicide, preferred to commit suicide when he was captured, if what you said was correct then he should have applied for the Nobel prize for humanity.
A I believe there is no such prize as a Nobel prize for humanity, Mr. Ponger, but the following is correct. I know the head physician of the concentration camp, Dr. Lolling, personally. He was not an exceptionally good physician - but he was a bit of a charlatan.
Q Let's not have the gallows' chanty of Dr. Lolling. We know more or less about the whole account. I am asking if you don't believe it wasn't quite the way you said it, that the people tried everything that they could in order to stop the epidemics?
A I am terribly sorry to have to contradict you, Mr. Ponger, but I saw the installations at Auschwitz, for instance, I watched the diathermic installation they had there, the electrical equipment they had there from the A.E.G. in Berlin, which they used for fighting the epidemics.
Q Was this equipment sufficient for the number of inmates?
A Yes, the capacity of those machines was enormous, because through those electrical waves a special heat was developed, even in their underclothes, and at the same time the bacteria were killed. And their laundry went through those rays at a very fast speed, and that cleaned it off.
Q Now, Witness, we are not talking about laundry or anything of the kind, but we are talking about the medical treatment and the hygiene of the camp. May I ask you something, Witness, please? Did you know that there was no water at the Birkenau-Auschwitz camp?
A No, I didn't know that. All I know is that almost all of the concentration camps had a lack of water and that they were suffering from that lack. The water was not sufficient because the pipes, when the camp was extended, were not extended, and because at Auschwitz in particular, the drinking water which was extracted from the ground was not good.
Q Hoess stated in his trial in Cracow that one of the worst things that was going on in the camp was the hygienic and the medical treatment, that Hoess had addressed himself to the WVHA, spoke to Dr. Lolling, and wanted to have new pipes constructed for the water and that he never did receive that, and that as a result of this a large number of the people died because there was no hygiene, no canalization, there was no drinking water.
A That seems to be absolutely correct, that I personally spoke with the doctors all the time, and I heard again and again that the installations which existed at the time were not sufficient, but I also pointed out during my testimony that all materials during the the war were rather hard to get, and I believe that the civilian administration, in view of such tasks, failed much more than the SS.
Q Now then, a few more questions concerning Auschwitz, Witness. You testified today that the extermination, burning of the Jews in the camp was only known to a very small group of human beings, is that correct?
A Yes, that is my opinion.
Q Do you have any idea about the fact whether the people of the locality of Auschwitz knew anything about those crimes?
A I did not stay in the locality of Auschwitz myself for a very long period of time, but I would like to assume that those people who were outside of the extermination camp couldn't know of it.
Q Did you know that part of the burning was done in open burning places?
A No, I didn't, because there were so many crematoria there that I could not understand the necessity for that.
Q The necessity for that was that the crematoria were not sufficient, and according to Hoess's testimony it was even said that the air-raid precaution service made complaints there, namely that the camp would be a nice target for planes due to the flame that was burning all the time there. Do you know about it?
A No, I didn't know about that. I never saw any such flames in Auschwitz.
Q Did you know that the locality of Auschwitz was constantly enveloped in a cloud which stank and which resulted from those burnings?
A I was in Auschwitz at several times. I smelled all sorts of stinking odors from the industries, but I never did smell that special smell which emanates from burning bodies.
Q Did you try to speak about this question with people, with groups of the population there?
A No, I didn't speak about it with any of the people.
Q I would like to talk now about a few questions in connection with the defendants of this trial. How long have you known the defendant Pohl, Witness?
A I only met him a short while after I started this SS Judge of the Reserve. That means in the spring of 1941, I first met him. In my official capacity I saw him at several cases where trials occurred.
Q Do you know of any proceedings in connection with Pohl where murder was involved?
A I know all the concentration camp trials.
Q Do you know Loritz, the commander of Sachsenhausen, Witness?
A Unfortunately I do not know Herr Loritz, but I had quite an urge to meet him, because according to my opinion he seems to have been one of the greatest murderers in the concentration camps.
Q Did you have any insight of files which had anything to do with Loritz and his actions in a camp?
A Yes.
Q. Will you describe this to this Tribunal, please, Witness?
A Towards the end of my investigation I ran across one of the files of the WVHA, and that was in Schmidt-Klevenow's possession. The file was dated 1942. The file began with a letter addressed to the Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler. In that letter atrocious conditions in the concentration camp Sachsenhausen-Oranienburg near Berlin were described, and the guilt of the commander, Oberfuehrer Loritz was stressed there. From the file I realized that Himmler personally read that letter. In a personal letter he sent it to Pohl, and he personally gave Pohl the instructions to carry out a severe investigation and to change those conditions immediately.
Herr Pohl and Herr Schmidt-Klevenow thereupon did not do anything else but simply they investigated who had written the letter in order to have this man punished for what was commonly known as slander and in order to try him, and that is what he answer of Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl was to Himmler. Whereupon Himmler wrote back to Pohl and with the most severe words he scolded him for not changing the conditions, and at the same time he pointed out that according to his opinion Gruppenfuehrer Gluecks was a man who was absolutely unfit in order to keep order in the concentration camps, and the parting literal sentences wore contained, that Gluecks has more the system of a good old uncle, and he instructed Pohl to immediately have that man substituted by someone else. Pohl did nothing of the kind and he simply dealt with the question in a dilatory manner and nothing happened. Loritz still remained pers oma grata and he got promoted.
Q. What was Pohl's attitude in the Koch case, which you know very well?
DR. SEIDL (For the Defendant Oswald Pohl) Your Honor, I shall also set the motion that he testimony by this witness, in connection with the Loritz case, should, be eliminated from the record, as this morning I did not have the possibility to ask any questions in this connection to this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: In connection with what case?
DR. SEIDL: In connection with the corruption case.
MR. PONGER: This is murder, not corruption in this case.
THE PRESIDENT: The Loritz case isn't a corruption case.
MR. PONGER: No, it is a murder case, and so is the Koch case.
THE PRESIDENT: Objection overruled.
Q. (By Mr. Ponger) Witness, do you remember the camp at Horzegenbusch?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you know that diamond cutters were supposed to be sent there?
A. Yes, I saw the diamond cutters myself.
Q. Will you please tell this Tribunal the result of your investigation?
A. Yes, when I visited the camp at Herzogenbusch I saw a diamond cutting plant. In his diamond-cutting shop most of the diamond cutters from Amsterdam more working. The diamonds which were being out there came from the extermination camps, they were the personal property of the Jews formerly. The diamonds were then recut in order to enable these people to sell them outside, abroad, without having to be afraid to have anybody else find out the origin of these diamonds. In Herzogenbusch I realized another crime of the Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl. Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl had given the order to the camp commander in case of an invasion to have all the inmates shot. That order was so atrocious for the simple reason that the inmates of the concentration camp of Herzogenbusch for the largest part consisted of women and inmates who were only kept there for only very small offenses. For instance, they sometimes - they had provided a few pounds of butter on the black market.
THE PRESIDENT: How do you know that Pohl gave such an order?
THE WITNESS: I did not see the order itself, no, but I do know that after we had made protests that order had been withdrawn by Himmler.
THE PRESIDENT: How do you know that?
THE WITNESS: I know that also through Obergruppenfuehrer Raute and Obertarmbannfuehrer Bender.
THE PRESIDENT: What you claim to know is what these two Obergruppenfuehrers told you?
THE WITNESS: Yes Aug-A-MJ-17-3-Hoxsie (Simha) Q( By Mr. Ponger) This morning you spoke in brief terms about the concentration camp of Dora and you said that you didn't see the camp itself.
Did you ever speak to the camp commander at any time?
A. I did have the opportunity to speak to the commander, Pister, who had personally seen the concentration camp of Dora, and who was present at the conferences whore Pohl was presiding.
Q. What did Pister tell you about Pohl's statement with regard to labor assignment there?
A. Pohl had given the order to carry out the labor assignment to in a ruthles manner, and in particular billets hygienic conditions and medical conditions were to be neglected on purpose in order to concentrate their entire pushing ahead this working project. The commander, Pister, made protese, that this would mean the immediate death of thousands and thousands of inmates. Pohl thereupon decided that in this particular case of Dora, due to decisive importance for the war, human beings' lives shouldn't count.
Q. Dr. Morgen, I would like to speak about the Defendant Vogt now. Do you know the Defendant Vogt?
A. Yes, indeed.
Q. Did you have any official matters to deal with him?
A. Yes.
Q. In what connection, witness?
A. During my investigations, which played more and more into the field of corruptions, I worked together with auditors of the defendant, or then I used his auditing reports.
Q. Dr. Morgen, as far as corruptions are concerned, I would appreciate it if your testimony would be rather limited. How then, during those investigations, did you at any time hear that Vogt visited concentration-camps, V-o-g-t?
A. I know that the Defendant - Vogt was in the concentration camp of Buchenwald, that is to say in the administrative building there.
Q. What was the purpose of his going there, witness?
A. After Standartenfuehrer Koch, the commander, had been arrested namely one year prior to my appearance, he had been called by Obergruppenfuehrer Erbprinz Zu Waldeck, in order to make certain investigations and to give certain findings about their esploitation program, of Koch towards the concentration camp interest.
Q. High reference to the concentration camp inmates and also about their exploitation was it Volt's task to investigate the camp, the financial situation of the camp?
A. Vogt as a treasury auditor did not have the task to deal with matters which were outside of his field of task. However, I am of the opinion that after a long examination of those things, and also during his presence in the camp, he couldn't very well help seeing them. I am of the opinion that the Defendant Vogt in connection with Buchenwald should have seen indubitably that the commander was exploiting the inmates in a 11 shameless manners and through the economic enterprises exploited, and that he put the inmate money into his own pocket. That was not only a personal enrichment, but it was also the disadvantages which the inmates had.
Q. Dr. Morgan, did you hear that Dr. Vogt was at any time in Lublin?
THE PRESIDENT: I think we have had enough of this scandalmongering about Vogt. It is all hearsay, and it doesn't relate to the charges in the indictment at all.
MR. PONGER: My last question about Lublin concerns Action Reinhardt and Vogt.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if you can connect it with the Action Reinhardt it would be pertinent.
DR. HOFFMANN (Counsel for Defendant Hoffmann): I could have answered that question, Mr. President, in the direct examination, but I only spoke about the secrecy question and the question concerning the transportation system.
THE PRESIDENT: Of course the Action Reinhardt is mentioned in the indictment. That is one of the charges. Now, this examination has dragged on much longer by both sides than is necessary. The door will close at three o'clock on any further cross examination of this witness. The Tribunal has, under the ordinance, the right to limit cross-examination. Now, you can use that time as you like -for unimportant things or important things--but the examination will close at three o'clock.
MR. PONGER: This is one of the last question I have to put to the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't hear the question.
MR. PONGER: This is one of the last questions I have to ask the witness.
BY ME. PONGER:
Q. Dr. Morgen, are you familiar with the term Action Reinhardt?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you hear about the Action Reinhardt in connection with Lublin?
A. Yes.
Q. According to your opinion, do you think the defendant Vogt know of the Action Reinhardt?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you explain it to the Tribunal?
THE PRESIDENT: That is not proof: Do you think that one of the defendants know about it. He says yes. Well....go ahead; let's so how much he does know about it. See what basis there is for his conclusion, if any.
WITNESS: The place where the Action Reinhardt was wound up was in Lublin; in any case, one of the winding up places was in Lublin. It was in the hands of Sturmbannfuehrer Wipporn. A short while before I arrived there, the Defendant Vogt was at the agency of Sturmbannfuehrer Wippern, and he had audited the total balance of the Reinhardt Action.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that the basis for your statement?
WITNESS: I know that Sturmbannfuehrer Wippern knew about the matters in connection with the Reinhardt Action, and he also reported to me that he had discussed those questions with Standartenfuehrer Vogt.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, of course, Vogt himself told us this. He admits that he went to Lublin to audit the books of the Reinhardt Fund.
BY MR. PONGER:
Q. Witness, do you know anything about the fact of whether Vogt was well oriented about where those valuables came from, and that they originated from the extermination of the Jews?
A. I can't give you a statement about that.
DR. SCHMIDT (Counsel for Vogt): I object against this question.
THE PRESIDENT: He says he can't make a statement about it anyway.
MR. PONGER: I have no further questions.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY DR. SEIDL (Counsel for Defendant Pohl):
Q. Witness, I only have a few questions to put to you. Due to the short time at our disposal, I would appreciate it if you would answer my question with yes or no. Did you at any time personally see an order which ordered executions, or any other measures in connection with executions, signed by the defendant Oswald Pohl?
A. No.
Q. What you stated before, therefore, is based on hearsay from third parties?
A. Yes, quite so. That is from third persons who were directly connected with those matters.
Q. You were never in the concentration camp of Dora, were you?
A. No.
Q. Your knowledge of Dora is based on things that Oberfuehrer Pister told you?
A. Yes, the commander.
Q. Do you know that the commander of the concentration camp of Sachsenhuasen, who was mentioned by you, by name was Loritz, upon the suggestion of the defendant Pohl, was dismissed by Himmler?
A. No, I didn't.
DR. SEIDL: No further questions, Your Honors.
BY DR. SCHMIDT (Counsel for Defendant Vogt):
Q. Witness, you spoke in connection with Buchenwald about the fact Vogt for quite a while has been in the administration of the camp, and that he carried out auditing there. What is that knowledge based on, witness ?
A. In part I saw to auditing reports of the defendant Vogt myself.
Q. Is there any possibility tat this auditing was not done by Vogt personally, but by one of his auditors?
A. According to the eye-witness reports, Vogt and other auditors were present -- at the time.
THE PRESIDENT: But did you see Vogt?
WITNESS: Yes, but a year later.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you see him when he was doing the auditing? Where was this, Lublin?
WITNESS: No, I didn't see him.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you see him either at Buchenwald or Lublin?
WITNESS: No, I didn't see him.
BY DR. SCHMIDT:
Q. Now,then, in connection with the case Lublin, one more question, witness. Did Wippern at any time tell you in how far he had informed Vogt about the real Reinhardt Action?
A. According to my opinion, this can be seen from the connections which existed: if silver tableware, wedding rings, gold from teeth, and money and foreign exchange--and even up to eyeglass rims-were collected and made up into lists--hundreds of thousands of these items--then I don't believe that these can be normal things.
Q. Did you see those things yourself, witness?
A. I saw the remainder of those things myself.
Q. When was it?
A. Around the end of 1943 or the beginning of 1944. It could have been towards the end. I couldn't tell you exactly.
Q. Do you know that Vogt already in June, 1943, had been to Lublin?
A. He stated before that he was there before I got there, and therefore the defendant Vogt must have seen more than I did.
Q. That is a deduction on your part, witness, isn't it?
A. Well, because in the meantime, as I was told, the removal of those things took place after he had left.
Q. And whether Vogt was at the same spot which you visited also--do you know that personally?
A. Yes, indeed, I was told that by Sturmbannfuehrer Wippern.
DR. SCHMIDT: No further questions, Your Honor.
DR. FROESCHMANN (Counsel for defendant Mummenthey): Only two questions, Your Honor.
BY DR. FORESCHMANN:
Q. Witness, when were you in Horzogenbusch?
A. In the month of November, 1943.
Q. Who was in charge of the diamond-cutting shop?
A. That, I couldn't tell you for certain.
Q. Did you speak with anyone there, witness?
A. I spoke with the administrative leader and with the diamond cutters,there, in the camp.
Q. In the camp?
A. Yes.
DR. FROESCHMANN: No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: No further questions by Defense counsel?
There appear to be none. Witness will be excused. Court will recess until nine thirty next Monday morning.
(Witness excused).
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess until nine thirty, Monday morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 25 August 1947, at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of Military Tribunal II, Case 4, in the matter of the United States of America, against Oswald Pohl, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 25 August 1947, 0930-1000, Justice Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges, of Military Tribunal II.
Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America, and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Where are we Mr. Robbins? What is the order?
MR. ROBBINS: Your Honor, very much to my surprise Oswald Pohl is listed as the witness this morning. I think that the procedure was to bring in defense witnesses for Tschentscher and Fanslau.
THE PRESIDENT: What about the rest of the Prosecution's witnesses?
MR. ROBBINS: We have no more Prosecution witnesses, Your Honor. We are through with our rebuttal, except for some document books, which are not quite ready, but I hope they will be ready today, but the processing is all held up.
DR. SEIDL: Dr. Seidl for the defendant Oswald Pohl. Your Honors, first of all I intend to call the defendant Oswald Pohl once more into the witness stand in order to ask him several question. In view of the fact that in the meantime the witness Morgen has been available for cross examination, and, since the Tribunal has made it understood clearly that it does not believe that the affidavit from the witness has any probative value, particularly, insofar as the so-called corruption cases are concerned, I have refrained from calling the defendant Oswald Pohl once more onto the witness stand. However, I admit that here we are dealing with a border question and I would be thankful if the Tribunal would make a ruling about the fact whether the three affidavits of the witness Dr. Morgen, which have been presented by both the Prosecution and the defense contain anything which has any probative value and whether they contain anything which has to be explained any further.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal is only concerned in the affidavits of the witness Morgen with the allegations which are concerned with the indictment, and not with misconduct which is not related to the indictment.
When the defendant was on the stand on direct examination, he already answered the important or the relative allegations in the Morgen affidavits and there is no purpose in his going back on the stand again simply to deny it again. He has met all the allegations in these affidavits already.
DR. VON STAKELBERG: Dr. von Stakelberg for the defendant Fanslau. Your Honor, I intend to call two witnesses to the witness stand today, for the purpose of breaking down the veracity of the witness Otto. One of them is the medical councillor (Medizinalrat) Dr. Steigele from the Insane Asylum at Eggelfing, and, the other one is the Attorney Freitag, or District Attorney Freitag from Augsburg. The medical councillor Dr. Steigele, as the Security Officer has informed me, has already appeared in the building. However, unfortunately, he has not arrived at my office as yet, and I am unable to locate him at the present time. However, he is bound to arrive here any second now. The District Attorney, Dr. Freitag, has notified me that he will arrive here on the noon train, and I assume that he can be in the building at half past eleven or by that time.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. von Stakelberg, what about your other witnesses. You were to have several other witnesses, I understand?
DR. VON STAKELBERG: Your Honor, the other witnesses whom I have asked for were interned witnesses. At the time, together with Mr. Robbins, I have my request in with Miss Benford to have the witnesses brought here as quickly as possible. Miss Benford assured me that the witnesses would be brought here as quickly as possible. Up to now, however, they have not arrived, as yet.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Robbins, I am a little fearful that some of your documents, that you are about to offer now may create the desire to offer more defense testimony.