I, therefore, cannot say if any such lectures were given later on.
Q Do you maintain the conviction that the Anti-Semitism of the Party was aimed at the physical extermination of the Jews -- or just what do you understand by the Anti-Semitism which was contained in the Party program?
A I did not concern myself very much with these questions. However, I understood Anti-Semitism to mean that the Jews, that the influence of the Jews was to be limited, to a proportion with number of Jews living in Germany. I did not think of any extermination. In my practice I took care of everybody who came to see me for treatment. I did care what profession he belonged to. I treated all of them equally. That was not only in the time before 1933, but also after 1933, and up to the year 1940, as long as I was able to carry on my civilian practice. I can also furnish proof of that fact.
Q How did you understand the ideological concepts of the SS?
A I considered the Allgemeine-SS as having an idealistic attitude, and I had the impression that it recognized the basic principles of decency and morality.
Q Was there any contact between the Waffen-SS and the GeneralSS in the way that members of the Waffen-SS were given special training in the ideas of the SS?
AAs far as I know no contact existed. There was only the one connection, that members of the General-SS, whenever they joined the armed forces, were usually assigned to the Waffen-SS. However, as far as I know, this was not always done. There was a large number of members of the General-SS, and these people were assigned to other branches of the armed forces, like the navy and the air force.
Q In the indictment against the SS, before the I. M. T. it was alleged that the crimes which were committed in the concentration camps were not individual deeds of the individual persons, but that they constituted a certain SS policy, and for many years they were committed in many countries.
What do you have to say about that?
A Unfortunately, I have only recognized today that in the concentration camps not only irresponsible individuals committed crimes, but crimes were also carried out there on a fundamental basis. However, all these things were kept so secret before the public that any outsider, and with that the largest part of the Waffen-SS, including myself, although I was a member of Office Group D, did not have any knowledge of all these things happening there.
Q.- Didn't you have any knowledge either of the medical experiments? Were experiments also carried out in the dental field?
A.- No experiments were carried out in the dental field. However, the medical experiments also were completely unknown to me at that time. As I have seen from the opening speech of the Prosecution, these medical experiments mainly took place in the years between 1940 and 1943. That was at a time when I was not yet a member of the WVHA.
Q.- Did you participate or did you have knowledge of sterilization measures which were carried out, or the Euthanasia program?
A.- These measures were also completely known to me. The word "euthanasia" even was unknown to me, just as I did not know anything about "14-F-13". I heard of that here for the first time. However, the crimes which were committed under these designations took place within the years up to 1943.
In the opening speech the Prosecution also read a letter by Gluecks to the camp commanders. It was of the 27th of April, 1943, and this letter also refers to this fact.
Q.- Did you have any knowledge of deportation of foreign people for slave labor, or did you have any knowledge of the fact that these people were forced to work under inhuman conditions?
A.- I knew that a large number of foreign workers were in Germany. They consisted of Italians, French, Belgians, Dutchmen; and people also came for work in Germany from the Eastern territories. The Eastern workers wore a special insignia on their clothing that said "East." Since they were able to move around completely at liberty, and since they did not look very sad at all I had to assume that these people had volunteered for work in Germany. I did not have any knowledge of the working conditions and in particular about cruel working conditions.
Q.- In the indictment against the SS before the IMT it is also stated the rule of terror of the SS was a systematic and official program.
Witness, did you ever receive knowledge of such a program while you were a member of the Reiter-SS, or while you belonged to the Waffen-SS?
A.- During neither my membership in the Reiter-SS nor while I belonged to the Waffen-SS did I ever hear about such a program. I never was able to make any observations which would have informed me of these matters.
Q.- Are you of the opinion that outside of the high superiors who issued these crimes that other persons were also responsible for the crimes which were committed in the concentration camps?
A.- Besides the highest superiors who issued such orders, the guilty ones may also have been among the concentration camp commanders, medical officers, and other camp personnel. However, the culprits may also have been among the circle of the inmates themselves. However, that is only insofar as they participated in criminal acts.
I must say that I, as a factual superior, of the camp dentists, did not commit any criminal acts in any way.
Q.- Witness, your guilt as a member of the WVHA is considered in the fact that you participated in the administration of concentration camps. Would you say that you participated in the Administration of the camps?
A.- I was the factual superior of camp dentists. This was a medical service and it was not part of the administration. I did not misuse my office in order to hurt or inflict any damage on the camp inmates. To the best of my knowledge and belief I worked in order to help their physical condition. I believe that throughout the world on dentist has ever been punished by any court because he carried out his profession. That I used my experience and skill in the Office D-III cannot be considered as constituting a crime. As far as the removal of the gold from the teeth of deceased persons is concerned, then I justify myself before God and my own conscience, and I declare myself innocent, especially since I did not contribute to this either by my own acts or by issuing orders or by negligence in the commission of these acts.
DR. RATZ: May it please the Tribunal, I have now completed the direct examination of the defendant Hermann Pook. I would like to submit a few more documents from my document book. On page 29 of my document book we have Document Hermann Pook, number 4, which I submit as Exhibit 8. This is an affidavit of Herbert Siggelkow.
He was the pharmacist to Dr. Lolling just as Dr. Pook was assigned to Dr. Lolling as a dentist. He states that it was the main task of Dr. Pook, after expert reviewing, to forward orders from the camps to the Medical Office. He goes on to say, and I quote:
"Since these activities did not absorb all of Dr. Pook's time he was simultaneously taking charge of the garrison dental clinic at Oranienburg. Here, members of the units stationed in the garrison and their families were given dental treatment. Only the guards of the Sachsenhausen concentration camp had their own dental station which was under the supervision of the then Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Guessow. Dr. Pook's activities at the garrison dental clinic in Oranienburg claimed the greatest part of his time...."
Then Siggelkow goes on to say, and I quote from the next paragraph -
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, you need not read these affidavits because we simply follow along as you read them. They will get careful attention from the Tribunal. Unless you just want to emphasize certain points, we will read the entire document.
DR. RATZ: I then shall sum up the contents of this document with very few sentences.
The worker then tells us about the relationship of Dr. Pook with Lolling. He states that Dr. Pook had very little influence there, that the personal relationship between Dr. Pook and Lolling was not good. He states that Dr. Pook never deputized for Dr. Lolling, that Dr. Lolling had his own small circle and Dr. Pook did not belong to that circle.
With regard to the question of the gold from the teeth of deceased inmates, the witness Siggelkow states that in his opinion Dr. Pook had nothing to do with it. He quotes a statement of Dr. Pook where he said, "Once in the course of a discussion concerning dentures he told me that applications for the permit and allocation of gold for dentures must be submitted to the Medical Office on a prescribed form and that he had no say in the matter whatsoever."
I want to submit another affidavit; it is from Georg Rammler. It is Document Hermann Pook, number 5; it is Exhibit No. 9. It is on page 32 of my document book.
From 1941 until 1945 Rammler was Stabsscharfuehrer (or Hauptfeldwebel) on the SS staff company at the office group D of the WVHA. He states that Dr. Pook was mainly active as the chief dental surgeon of the SS ward in the SS hospital of the army dental clinic. He states that Dr. Pook very rarely went to Office Group D. And Rammler goes on to say that Pook did not make any official trips with the Chief of Office D-4, Burger.
In a previous affidavit he had made a statement to the contrary, and now he states that this was a mistake on his part. With the large number of furloughs and trips he had to deal with, he states that with the amount of work he carried out at the time he may have made a mistake.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
DR. RATZ: I also want to submit on page 45 of my Document Book, the affidavit of ..... That is Exhibit 10, Document No. 8. That is the affidavit of Dr. Schlorf. I would like to read now the first paragraph because it deals with a question which I consider to be very important. Schlorf states in his affidavit and I quote: "I do not know any exact details whether in the civilian sector, before the cremation of dead persons in crematorium gold teeth were removed or not. Only once I heard from Pastor Reager, Hamburg-Lockstedt, Lutherstrasse, that an officer of the Wehrmacht whose home town was Hamburg, died at Leipsig, and that the family's request to have the run transferred to Hamburg was answered by saying that this could be effected if they would only give their consent to the removal of gold teeth before the cremation and to their being collected by some Reich authority."
For the rest I merely want to point out the contents of this affidavit.
Now, I want to submit two more affidavits on page 46 of the Document Book. This is Document HP No. 9, Exhibit No. 11. This is an affidavit by Dr. Poeck who states that he knows that Dr. Pook was a member of the Berlin Reiter SS (Standarte 7). And the last document I want to submit today is Document HP No. 10, which is Exhibit No. 12. It is the affidavit of Dr. Schwedler. He also states that Dr. Hermann Pook was a member of Reiter SS (Standarte 7 in Berlin).
With this I have concluded my presentation for today.
THE PRESIDENT: Any defense counsel wish to cross examine this witness?
BY DR. BELZER (For the Defendant Karl Sommer):
Q Witness, before you came to Nurnberg you were in the internment camp Neuengamme?
A Yes.
Q From what time on were you in that camp?
A I was in Neuengamme from 30 May 1945 until 1 November 1946.
Q Were you in the same camp where the witness Rammler was Court No. II, Case No. 4.located?
A From 10 March 1946 on, yes.
Q In Neuengamme didn't you know the former SS-Oberscharfuehrer Sommer?
A Yes. That man Sommer in April or May 1946 was transferred to Camp 3 at that time. That was the 6th Civilian Internment Camp at Neuengamme. As I heard later on he had been recognized in Hamburg by former concentration camp inmates and then he was arrested. At the time when he was turned over to Neuengamme this Camp 3 had a total strength of approximately 250 persons.
Q Did you hear anything at Neuengamme about the positions which this man Sommer had occupied?
A Sommer was a person who was not looking for company and he always remained by himself. In my capacity as dentist there I was charged with giving dental treatment which became necessary in the internment camp and I had the opportunity of talking to him. If I can recall correctly he told me at the time he had been in Auschwitz and had been in charge of a block there.
Q Do you recall the first name of this man Sommer?
A I cannot tell you that in detail anymore. If I can recall correctly his first name was Georg. However, I cannot say that with certainty.
Q Is it correct that approximately four to five weeks ago you told the co-defendant Karl Sommer of the existence of this man Sommer at Neuengamme?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q Is it also correct to say that you stated at the time that Rammler would be able to give more precise information about it?
A Yes, I said that before. I figured that Rammler, being in charge of the camp, would be able to give greater information about it.
Q The examination of tine witness Bielsky took place 14 April, this year. Why didn't you immediately in connection with the examination Court No. II, Case No. 4.of this witness make that statement?
A I can't say that right now. I didn't realize the importance of this matter at that moment, only realized it a little later on.
Q Are you perfectly certain that this individual at Neuengamme was really called Sommer?
A Yes. I don't know him by any other name.
Q Is it possible that the man whom you met at Neuengamme was called Sommerer, that is to say, he had two letters more in his name?
A No.
Q Yesterday I was informed of the camp administration at Neuengamme and I received a confirmation about this person. I shall submit this confirmation I received in evidence. In addition to this confirmation by the camp administration at Neuengamme I also received photographs of the person who is held in confinement at Neuengamme. I request the Tribunal's permission to show the photographs to the witness with the question whether these photographs constitute a true likeness of the man whom he knows by the name of Sommer.
A Yes, that is the man Sommer who I know.
Q Since my time was so much limited I was unable to have this document reproduced. I don't know if it is appropriate for me to hand in this document now or if it would be more appropriate if I could present it later on.
THE PRESIDENT: I think you can present it now and let the Tribunal see the photographs which you showed the witness.
DR. BELZER: I then would like to read briefly the contents of this letter. It is a confirmation of the internment camp at Neuengamme.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you have a copy of it in German for the interpreter?
DR. BELZER: Your Honor, the letter is written in English. The document was written in English.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you translated it?
DR. BELZER: I can only summarize the contents of the letter.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
However, I do not have the exact translation of it.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you will later have a literal translation of it for the German documents?
DR. BELZER: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Let us see the photographs in the meanwhile.
DR. BELZER: This document confirms the fact that under 61029 in the internment camp at Neuengamme the SS Unterscharfuehrer Georg Sommerer was interned there and before that he used to be in charge of a Block in the Concentration Camp Auschwitz. It was not stated when he was arrested. However, from the photographs it has been shown here that this picture was taken 23 May 1946. Therefore, it can be assumed that Sommerer was arrested around that period of time and went to Neuengamme. According to the confirmation I received Sommerer escaped from Neuengamme on 4 October 1946. He is alleged to be 72 cm. tall. He is 60 kilos. heavy. His eyes are blue, and his hair is dark brown and wavey. The name is Sommerer.
I now submit this as Sommer Document 37, Exhibit I.
I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Any further examination by defense counsel?
If not, Prosecution may cross examine.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HIGGINS:
Q Witness, I would first like to direct your attention to statements recently made by you while you were under direct examination. I believe I understood you to say in response to your counsel's question that no documents were submitted by the prosecution that showed that there was such a thing as a dental station, section, or office in the WVHA, was that your contention?
A Yes.
Q Then document NO-111, with which I would think you are familiar, there is set out Office D-III of the WVHA; D-III/1 and D-III/2 are offices which are stated to be offices for the medical and dental care of the SS and offices for the medical and dental care of the inmates. Now, wouldn't you think that would satisfy you so far as the contention is concerned that no such offices existed? In other words, wouldn't you say that these were dental offices as such as D-III?
A Mr. Prosecutor, may I ask you to save a copy of that document. I don't have the document book.
THE PRESIDENT: I have one here, Mr. Robbins. Is it a chart?
MR. ROBBINS: It is a chart, Your Honor, but it isn't in German.
MR. HIGGINS: While we are waiting, I might proceed with another question to the witness.
BY MR. HIGGINS:
Q Returning to statements made by you on direct examination, you stated that never, before your attendance at this Court, heard the name of Globocnik, is that correct, is that what you said?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q You are certain of that?
A I cannot recall ever having heard the name at any other occasion before that.
Q I would like to read from an interrogation conducted by Mr. Ortman on 13 November 1946, in which you stated that you had heard of Court No. II, Case No. 4.the name of Globocnik.
After I have read, will you please tell me then whether or not you insist that you have never heard of his name before? The interrogator asked: "Do you know Obergruppenfuehrer Globocnik?" And the reply is: "No. Question: 'Did you hear that name today for the first time in your life?" And you state: "The name I have already heard before."
Now, when did you hear that name before? This interrogation was conducted prior to the arraignment, and prior to the sessions being held here. Now, I would like to know the occasion in which you heard that name and in reference to what?
A I really cannot recall it, and I don't know what caused me to make the statement at that time. I cannot ever recall having heard that name at an earlier time. I also cannot recall having made this statement before this particular interrogator.
Q Then, you state that this statement as made here is incorrect, is that right? You had never before heard the name of Globocnik?
A I claim that, but I do not recall having heard the name before. It was completely unknown to me. I never worked at all in the East, and only toward the end of 1943 did I enter the WVHA. I know today that at that period of time Globocnik was not there anymore.
Q Well, it is very possible, despite what you say, that you had heard of the name of Globocnik. Globocnik was an extremely important man. He was Obergruppenfuehrer in the Waffen-SS, and it is quite possible that you have heard the name?
A I cannot recall ever having heard of that name. I do not know in what connection I could have heard it. I have already described this in detail where I was assigned during my membership in the WaffenSS. None of the agencies where I was working had any contact whatsoever with Globocnik.
Q I should like to turn to another question, then, referring to your statements on direct examination. You stated that you were drafted into the Waffen-SS after having served in the Allgemeine-SS and Court No. II, Case No. 4.Reiter-Standarte?
A No, I did not serve in the Reiter-SS. The Reiter-SS was not a military organization in the sense that there I could have spent some time of service. This was an organization rather like the General-SS.
Q One moment, I'd like to go into that at a later time. The question I would like to ask you now is concerning your being drafted into the Waffen-SS. You stated that you had been drafted into the Waffen-SS, did you not?
A Yes, I know exactly that by virtue of a notification of the Army Corps Area which was competent for me; on the 26th of September, I was called up, and I was told to report on the first of October to the medical officer of the Waffen-SS on Glesebeckstrasse in Berlin. I had to report on the first of October.
Q And you stated that while a member of the Waffen-SS you knew of the policy of anti-Semitism that was carried out, didn't you?
A I didn't quite understand your question.
Q While you were a member of the Waffen-SS, you stated that you were aware of the policy which was carried out against the Jews, insofar as they were denied participation in professional fields and in the business life of Germany above their percentage of representation in the community?
A No, Mr. Prosecutor, I didn't say that. I said to the contrary, for members of the Waffen-SS, just for all members of military forces, my political activity was prohibited. This was also expressed by the fact that a member of the Wehrmacht, and thus also a member of the Waffen-SS, could not possibly vote.
Q Just a moment, witness, I would like not to go into that. I would just like you to answer the question as I put it. When you were a member of the Waffen-SS, you knew of this policy against the Jews which I previously have described, did you not? I don't wish to know whether or not you participated in it or what were the regulations against participation in political actions; all I want to know is Court No. II, Case No. 4.whether or not you knew this policy was being carried out.
AAs a member of the Waffen-SS this policy was not known to me, but I stated that assa member of the Reiter-SS and a member of the Party, in a certain sense, I occupied myself with these questions to a very small extent. I have already stated that I occupied myself so little with these matters because, first of all, I was not interested in them.
Q Just one moment, witness, I don't much care for a long answer on the point. I have asked you a question. Did you know about it. I believe under direct examination you stated that you did, and you described it quite fully. Now, my question again is simply this: Did you know that such a policy was being carried out by the SS, a general policy pursued by the SS and by the Reich.
A In the direct examination, I have stated quite clearly that I did not have any knowledge of any program of the Party or the SS to carry out any extermination policy. I did not have any idea about it.
THE PRESIDENT: Listen, witness; answer this question, witness. Did you know that the Jews were being discriminated against?
A Your Honor, I haven't quite understood your question.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you know that the Jews were being discriminated against?
A Your Honor, did I understand your question to mean that this was not in my capacity as a member of the Waffen-SS, but generally?
THE PRESIDENT: You only have one mind, whether you knew it as a member of the Waffen-SS or private citizen, or any other way. Did you, a man named Pook, know that the Jews were being discriminated against?
A Just like any other resident in Germany, I had to notice -I don't know what year this was -- at the end of the 30's, the people had to start wearing the Jewish Stars. I knew that a certain discrimination existed.
THE PRESIDENT: The answer then is yes?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A Yes, Your Honor.
BY MR. HIGGINS:
Q And despite the fact that you knew of this discrimination against the Jews,on the part of the SS and generally on the part of the Reich, you continued to advance and appear to be sympathetic with it, did you not? In other words, your last rank in the SS was Obersturmbannfuehrer. That is a high rank. Now, despite the fact that you knew of this discrimination, you continued to carry out your job and co-operated with the SS in these things, or rather in your job, is that not right?
A Mr. Prosecutor, I knew that -- just like any other resident of Berlin or any other resident of any other cities -- but I was not able to do anything about it. I could do just as little as any other person. After all, these orders came from the highest authorities of the Reich, and they were not issued by any Party or SS agency. As I have already stated before, during the war I could not leave the WaffenSS.
Q Just a moment, witness. Did you attempt to do anything about it?
A I have already stated before, during my direct examination, that I, on my part, did not make any differences with regard to race or profession, when I treated my patients. I can prove that. I stated that I treated my patients who came to me for treatment no matter what their profession was or their political attitude. That was until I was conscripted, as long as I carried out my private profession.
THE PRESIDENT: This is the place to stop. We will recess until a quarter of two.
(A recess was taken until 1345 hours).
AFTERNOON SESSION The hearing reconvened at 1345 hours.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: The record will indicate that the defendant Baier is absent from this afternoon session with the consent of the Court, upon request of his counsel.
WITNESS DR. HERMANN POOK CROSS-EXAMINATION (continued) BY MR. HIGGINS:
Q. Witness, prior to the recess we discussed Document No. 111, and at this time I wish to submit this document to you, and I want you to tell me whether or not from that document you can determine that dental offices were located in AMT-D-III?
A. This chart is dated 1942. In none of the the three departments, D-III/I, D-III/2 or D-III/3 is there a dental station. The word "dental " is mentioned, of course, but I stated before, in none of the organizational charts you can find a dental agency or the word "leading dentist"; that the word dental as such is used, that --
Q. One moment, witness, I don't remember the issue of the leading dentist being involved in the statement made by you on direct examination. All I wish to establish is the fact that in D-III/I and D-III/2 were located offices which were dedicated to medical and dental care of the SS and dental and medical care of the inmates, and this is correct, is it not?
A. Yes, that is what it says there. However, it does not have a main department of its own, that is what I said.
Q. That is all I want to hear. Witness, I would now like to take up matters dealing with your party affiliations; I would like to ask you to tell me when you became a member of the NSDAP.
A. I became a member on the 1st of May 1933.
Q. And what was your party number?
A. I don't recall the number. I believe it was something like two million 600 thousand arid something, but I couldn't give you the exact number.
Q. The record states that the number was 2,645,140; that sounds correct, does it not?
A. Yes, it would be about right.
Q: Now, will you tell me, witness, when you joined the Allgemeine-SS?
A: I joined the Allgemeine-SS in the summer of 1933. It was not the Algemeine-SS but the Reiter-SS the Mounted-SS. I was permitted to join the group finally, and I received my pass in March 1934, approximately. I can recall the exact date.
Q: I see. Then you were a member of the Reiter-SS in 1933?
A: Yes, as of the summer of 1933, and officially as of March 1934.
Q: The record shows that officially you were a member of the Reiter-SS as of 1933. What do you say to that?
A: Well, I just stated that I joined in the summer of 1933. I was actually accepted in March 1934. That is the date when I received my number as a member and also the pass.
Q: I would just like to tell you that according to your SS record, you are entered as an SS member as of June 1933; that is, you officially were a member of the SS in June 1933.
A: I stated before that I joined in the summer of 1933. However, at the beginning it was not an official unit of its own. It was just being established, so that really at that time we were still wearing civilian clothes and were not wearing a uniform, and I do not deny -- which fact I repeated several times -- that I was a member of the SS as of June 1933, but the official act only took place in March 1934. That was when I received my membership number and my pass. That was after I had been examined in February 1934.
Q: The Reiter-SS was a part of the Allgemeine-SS, was it not; it was a branch of the Allgemeine-SS?
A: Well, I couldn't tell you that for sure. It was some sort of a sub-department, a special department, a special part of the Allgemeine-SS, yes.
Q: What, in addition to that, can you tell me about the Reiter-SS? Rather briefly, can you tell me something about the Reiter-SS? Just what sort of an organization was it?
A: You mean he Reiter-SS in particular?
Q: Yes.
A: The Reiter SS, for its main part, consisted of the various rural horse-riding unions. All those unions, which existed all over the country, as rural unions after 1933 usually became Reitersturms of the SS -- special units of the SS. I can't tell you very much about it. All I know is that there were several Sturms in Berlin, which were later on compiled into a Reiterstandarte, which means a mounted police group. In 1933 I was a member of a Sturm, but only for a short period of time. After that I was employed as a dentist with that Sturm, and later on with the Standarte, so that from that moment on I did not really participate in the actual service. I used to do a little riding, not very much, but I did do it quite often. That, of course, was outside of my dental activity there. That was the only thing that I participated in.
Q: Now, you became a member of that organization in June 1933. Could you tell me very briefly with what organizations you were associated between the time you became a member of the Reiter-SS and the the that you assumed duties in the Waffen-SS? Can you tell me very briefly what organization you were associated with?
A: Apart from my membership in the Party, I was a member of the National Socialist Welfare. Then I was a member of the Medical Association. I was a member of a Students' Union, the National Socialist Students' Union, through my students' corporation.
Q: I believe you misunderstood my question, witness. What I would like to know are the names of the organizations with which you were associated in the SS, that is, you were with the Panzer Division, were you not -- the SSPanzorgrenadier-division?
A: During my membership in the Waffen-SS, you mean, not in the Reiter-SS? After I was conscripted into the Waffen-SS in 1940, I was also assigned a front line duty, and in that capacity as a Leading Dentist I belonged to the Ninth SS Panzerdivision Hohenstaufen. That was in 1943.
Q: You were associated with the SD, were you not? You were at one time a leader in the Medical Squadron SD, Main Office, were you not -- prior to your being drafted into the Waffen-SS?
A: I never had any connection whatsoever with the SD.
Q: You are positive that you were never at any time associated with the SD?
A: Yes, indeed. Absolutely.
Q: In this respect, I would like then to submit to you Document NO 1998, which is an extract from your service record, and for purposes of reference I would like to number it Exhibit 574. The record indicates that on 15 August 1939 you were an Untersturmfuehrer, a Leader in the Medical Squadron, SD, in the Main Office, does it not? The current number is 12, and you will see it on the left corner.