Q. When gold was needed for dentures for SS members, was the gold removed from the teeth of deceased inmates used for that purpose?
A. No. Technically speaking, that was impossible because only real, pure, and good gold could be used for dentures. That gold for those dentures was provided by Office 14. The gold had been packed in special cases and it was stamped by the firm which produced it. And that is the way it was distributed to the individual dental stations. It was distributed by Office 14-2. The gold was sent to the various dental stations just like all the civilian doctors would get it from those factories.
DR. RATZ: May it please Your Honors, in the course of the last session we had here I introduced an affidavit by Dr. Abraham. From this affidavit, which is on page 35 of my document book, I have quoted paragraph 4 in order to refute Greunuss's affidavit. I didn't read the first three paragraphs, but as this affidavit is of great importance according to my opinion with reference to the treatment of inmates in the concentration camps and other questions which are important to the defense, I would like to take the liberty of reading the first three paragraphs of this affidavit by Abraham. Dr. Abraham states, under paragraph one:
"1. From May 1944 until the end of the war I was the garrison dental surgeon in Buchenwald. In the Buchenwald Concentration Camp three prisoner dental attendants were employed in the camp dental clinic, who were under me professionally, but over whom, on the other hand, I had no other authority of any kind. The necessary dental matters for the prisoners were treated by these prisoner dental attendants, who worked completely independently. The number of dental surgeons, three, was sufficient to begin with for the population of the camp; only in the last months when the evacuation of the camps in the East caused the Buchenwald camp to be filled to far in excess of the normal numbers, was the dental clinic too small in comparison with the number of prisoners, the conse quence of which however was merely that the individual patients had to wait longer for their necessary work to be done.
No complaints on the part of the prisoners or on the part of the camp doctors came to my ears, that some necessary treatment had not been carried out or that any other abuses were reigning in the dental treatment. From frequent visits to the prisoners' dental clinic I was convinced that the dental attendants worked according to order. The patients were treated in exactly the same way as the patients of the dental surgeons in their civilian practices were used to being treated. Only for false teeth, e.g. dentures, permission had to be granted on a written application, which went to Oranienburg via the camp physician and the concentration camp officer. Among the many applications which I handed in, in not a single case have I met a refusal on the part of the Chief Dental Surgeon in Office D-III, Dr. Pook. Medicines and drugs were ordered each month. Those orders too went to Oranienburg and were approved as a matter of principle in Office D-III by Dr. Pook. The deliveries were carried out by the Main Stores for Medical Supplies. The deliveries from there were much better than the services at the disposal of the civilian population outside, right up to the end of the war. I am personally convinced of that by repeated visits to a wholesale warehouse for dental equipment in Erfurt, which I had previously frequented for my civilian practice as a civilian dental surgeon. We were also always supplied with the materials for a local anesthetic by the Main Stores for Medical Supplies; even these materials were available in every case up to the end of the war. It is untrue that on account of a deficiency in local anesthetics a tooth of a prisoner ever had to be pulled out without an anesthetic being administered. Extractions without anesthetic also occur in the civilian practice of a dental surgeon, e.g. if the tooth is particularly loose, or if excessive suppuration renders it inadvisable to inject the anesthetic, or at the wish of the patient who does not want to have an anesthetic; that also happens sometimes in the practice of a civilian dental surgeon."
Now comes paragraph 2, where the witness is dealing with the authority of Dr. Pook compared with other dentists.
I quote:
"2. I have known Dr. Pook personally since 1944. At that time on the occasion of my appointment as garrison dental surgeon at Buchenwald I introduced myself personally. Then I saw him once again at his visit to Buchenwald; it may have been February or March 1945. Dr. Pook's position was purely administrative. The correspondence to the Chief Physician D-III, Dr. Lolling, went via him and back via him to the camp dental surgeons or to the camp physician. In my opinion Dr. Pook had no independent authority. I cannot recollect ever having received from him an independent order or an independent instruction; everything that concerned us dental surgeons was in principle signed by Dr. Lolling, e.g. transfer orders, standing orders, and the like."
Now I would like to read paragraph 3 of the affidavit:
"The removal of dental gold from deceased prisoners had been going on for a long time before the order came that a dental surgeon had to supervise the extraction. This order came in 1942 from Dr. Lolling and was issued by virtue of a Reichsfuehrer order. The rest of the details concerning the removal of dental gold I have already given in my affidavit of 17 February 1947, to which I refer..."
DR. RATZ: Dr. Abraham, I would like to add, at the present moment was referring to Document NO-2127, which was distributed by the Prosecution under Exhibit No. 518, Document Book XXI, page 38. It is on page 30 of the English Document Book. I would like to continue the quoting of the affidavit:
"Every month Dr. Pook automatically received a report on the removal of dental gold. Dr. Pook was not involved in this matter in any other way. The order concerning the removal of dental Gold already existed when he came into office. The dental gold was delivered by the Camp Dental Surgeon to the Administrative Head of the Camp, who, I suppose, sent the gold to the competent administrative office, Office Group Din Oranieaburg; from there, as far as I know, the gold was supposed to be sent to the Reichsbank. Before the participation of a dental surgeon in the extraction of dental gold was ordered as far as I know the Camp Physicians were entrusted with it."
Witness, I shall now ask you a last question with reference to this affidavit here. As far as delivery of material, dental material to dental stations is concerned, that is to ay, material necessary for the treatment of the inmates, Dr. Greunuss states here that delivery of material in Ohrdruf was lacking. What do you have to state about that?
A. Dr. Greunuss in this connection is talking about material generally. It is possible that as a dentist, as a physician, he meant medical material. I am not sure. Dental material, as stated by both Dr. Abraham and Dr. Scholz, was available in sufficient quantities. However, monthly applications for medical or dental material went through the normal channels, the Office DIII and then to Office lr of the medical office. They were dealt with there and written down in the medical records and passed on to the chief of the medical office for final approval and delivery by the Central Medical Office. As I stated before, upon my own wish, from 1944 on I dealt with all those matters, because due to the transfer of Office 14 to the outside of Berlin there was such a delay in dealing with all those matters that I believed it necessary to do something about it.
After a long hesitation the chief of Office 14 gave me that task. I can tell you, however, during that time when I dealt with all those things, that is to say, the last half of 1944 or early in 1945, the requests were approved by me exactly as they came from the dental stations and they were also carried out by the Central Medical Office in the sane way. All those requests were brought in by courier -- I sent my courier to the medical officer personally so that he could pass on the requests, and generally speaking he went to the medical office upon one of my telephone calls and requested all those things. That is the only way that it was safe guarded that quick delivery was carried out. At no time did I hear any complaints that there was lack of material in any of the stations. During one of the few visits which I carried out I had the opportunity to convince myself that in all these stations there was a certainstock of medicines and drugs.
THE PRESIDENT: Can you give us the Exhibit number of Dr. Greunuss's affidavit?
DR. RATZ: Yes, your Honor. Document NO-2156, Exhibit 515, Document Book XXI on page 19 in the German Document Book. It is on page 21 of the English Document Book.
May it please your Honors, the witness mentioned as the central office for delivery of medicaments for all dental stations, he mentions the Medical Office of the Waffen-SS. You could call him the Medical Quartermaster of the Waffen-SS. His name is Blumenreuther. I also received one of our affidavits which we got concerning this subject matter. However, I was not able to include this in my Document Book. I would appreciate it, however, if I could introduce it now and also read it to you. Unfortunately, it could not be translated.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Will we get copies? I understood you to say that document is not translated.
DR. RATZ: No.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Have you made arrangements to furbish us with copies?
DR. RATZ: Yes, indeed, your Honor. The copies are all with the Translation Department and I asked the Translation Department to furnish the copies today but unfortunately they have not been completed. I just gave one of the copies to the Interpreter so he can interpret it easier.
I would like to read the affidavit by Dr. Carl Blumenreuther, born on 16 of November 1881 in Berlin and I want to read most of it. I shall quote:
"I was a Medical Quartermaster of the Waffen-SS and Chief of the Central Medical Camp of the SS and Police which amongst other tasks also had the task of delivering material and drugs to the dental stations of the concentration camps and also dental equipment.
I would like to state here that the requests submitted to me by the Office 14 of the medical office, which medical office became office D III of the M.V.H.A., were all taken care of to their full extent. It was only in the last few months that the Medical Central Depot was not in a position to send all those articles which had been requested, and that to the full extent, because those things could only be sent up to certain percentages by the Central Equipment Office. That, however, only refers to the very last few months of the War due to various air raids which made the factories stop and which air raids also destroyed the transportation system in Germany. Up to the evacuation of the medical office, which took place during the second half of 1944, I received all approved applications through Office 14 of the medical office. The man dealing with those matters was Dr. Menzel. After that time through office D III of the W.V.H.A. (Leading Dentist). All the various things sent to the dental stations, that is to say material and medicaments, were above reproach in every respect. and complied with the rules and regulations of the Army. All old material or obsolete equipment was not delivered by the Central Medical Office.
The applications submitted to me monthly were not different from those of field units, the SS hospitals, and all other units. They were normal in every respect and the applications were for the same material and medicaments. The dental stations of the concentrations camps, therefore, corresponded entirely as far as equipment and quality was concerned to the Waffen-SS or the Army. Applications submitted by dentists in the concentration camp concerningapplication for liquids for injections for local anesthesia were all approved.
Dated: 26 June 1947 Signed Dr. Carl Blumenreuter" May it please your Honors, I would like to submit another affidavit here concerning this point which is Exhibit No. 7.This affidavit reached me only within the last few days and, therefore, I would appreciate it the affidavit would be accepted without the translation.
THE PRESIDENT: The affidavit which you just read should have an Exhibit Number. Is it No. 12?
DR. RATZ: It is No. 6, your Honor. It is the affidavit of Blumenreuther you are referring to, your Honor?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, the one which you just finished reading.
DR. RATZ: Yes, indeed.
THE PRESIDENT: What number does it have?
DR. RATZ: It is Document No. 6.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Abraham's has No. 6 in your Document Book. This affidavit you just read is not in your Document Book, is it?
DR. RATZ: No, it isn't, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Then it should have the number following the last affidavit which is in your book, and that is number 11.
DR. RATZ: Yes, indeed. The affidavit which I just introduced by Dr. Blumenreuther had No. HP #12 and is Exhibit No. 6. And now I would like to introduce this other affidavit here, HP #13, Exhibit # 7.
MR. HIGGINS: If the court pleases, Prosecution is not in possession of these affidavits which Dr. Ratz is introducing at this time. We have not seen them and I would like to reserve the right to object to them if on observations there is anything objectionable, and everything is not in order.
THE PRESIDENT: That right will be reserved, of course. Will you give me the name of the person who made the last affidavit, no. 12? Dr. what?
DR. RATZ: Dr. Blumenreuther, B-l-u-m-e-n-r-e-u-t-h-e-r.
THE PRESIDENT: And the last one you are about to read now?
DR. RATZ: That is Exhibit No. 7, Alfred Becker.
Becker states the following and I shall quote: "From the first of March, 1944, up to the capitulation, I was the chief of the Dental Department of the Central Medical Office of the Waffen SS in Berlin Lichtenberg. The montly requisition slips turned in by the SS Dental Stations were approved by the Medical Quartermaster. I received them through the Chief of the Central Medical Office for delivery; if and how far all those requests were dealt with by Office 14 and approved, I don't know.
"As far as delivery was concerned, that was not important at all; after the medical quartermaster of the Reichsarzt SS and Police, Dr. Blumenreuther, had approved those requisitions, those materials were delivered to the individual dental stations by the central stocks. If those monthly requisitions for the summer of 1944 on were dealt with by the leading dentist and office D-III in Oranienburg, I don't know.
"The way the Dental Stations were equipped in the concentration camps, I can only judge according to their requisition slips requesting individual or various pieces of equipment and current deliveries of material for the dental station. According to that, all the dental stations were probably installed in exactly the same way for the inmates as they were installed for the army as far as the equipment ad various things applied for could still be delivered.
"The monthly requisitions submitted by the concentration camp dentists were separated according to Kommandantur Dental Stations in the outside camps. If, from the autumn of 1944 on, all those requests were submitted on one single slip in order to save paper, I don't know. I did not pay any attention to that because it wasn't of any importance to me.
"The same material was delivered to the camp dental stations as it was delivered to the army dental stations, also certain items which were rather rare and which were not delivered to civilian agencies. Certain material of injection was also applied for and delivered for the treatment of the inmates.
To state in conclusion about the medical or dental treatment of concentration camps, I have to point out that I can't give you any exact information on all that. From the delivery of dental equipment, materiel, and medicaments, however I have to draw the conclusion that the patients were treated in a good and irreproachable way.
"I can further state, as in 1940 I was working in the personal department of the at the time medical office of the Waffen SS, and I had to deal with all the files of the dentists, I can testify that the dentist Dr. Hermann Pook was conscripted into the Waffen SS by his area commando in 1940. At that time, he came to me to see me and he asked me to postpone the term at the moment when he had to join the Army in order to take care of his private practice, which he had in Berlin Lichtenfelde. He was granted that request. He was sent to basic training to the Erstatz Battalion "Germania" in Hamburg." Neuen Gamme July 4, 1947, signed by Alfred Becker.
Witness, during your activity which lasted for a whole year as a leading dentist, you saw a number of concentration camps. On the basis of impressions which you gained there and the observations which you made yourself, did you gain a general picture and judgment of the concentration camps?
A.- I didn't go to the concentration camps out of personal curiosity but I was sent there on official business, and that, only with the order to inspect the dental station. The approval for that was only given depending on the circumstances. I can state with certainty that I never say any cruelties or mistreatments in those concentration camps during my visits.
Q.- Did you make any observations that the inmates were driven while working or then that they were abused or beaten?
A.- Generally speaking, I only saw inmates working in outside camps, that is to say in cities sometimes and I was just one amongst the inhabitants of Berlin who could see the same thing. In Berlin or Oranienburg, to be sure, I never noticed anything of the kind and I can really state that the pace of work was not particularly fast and that the work was carried in an orderly and normal way.
Q.- Did you observe anything as to how punishments were carried out on the inmates? Did you ever see that an inmate was beaten -- or flogged?
A.- I never saw that. In 1944 -- I didn't even know that there was such a thing as a punishment consisting of flogging. It was absolutely unknown to me then.
Q.- Do you know anything about the fact as to what the privileges were which the inmates could have -- that is to say, radios, libraries, correspondence, they could receive parcels and newspapers, could go to music-halls, cinemas, etc.?
A.- In the concentration camps at Sachsenhausen there was a radio installed which was on all day long, and it transmitted the usual programs as they were broadcast by all the other Reich broadcasting stations I could hear this radio broadcast even out there in my office in the dental station. I can't tell you anything about libraries except for the fact that when I was interned myself in Neuengamme I received books which were stamped "Inmate Library, Inmate Camp of Neuengamme."
As far as movies were concerned or variety shows, I really don't know if there was such a thing in the camps. Games were played particularly when a football or a soccer game was going on it could be heard just as loud as the broadcast. As far as receiving parcels was concerned, I could only tell you that there was such a thing. In Amtsgrupp D, I had the opportunity to speak with one of the inmates there, who was a barber in the concentration camp and he would also cut my hair if I happened to be in the agency there. The barber, first of all, was a Ger man and when he was released a Norvegian took over, I had a series of talks with that man.
I asked him what the food was like in the concentration camp at Sachsenhausen. His answer was that as long as he had been there, he had never used the camp foods because he was receiving so many parcels that he really didn't have to rely on the food of the concentration camp. However, he had heard that the food was good and sufficient. I offered him a cigarette, which he refused, however, by saying that he was certain he had more cigarettes than I did. He pulled a silver cigarette case from his pocked and offered me an American Lucky Strike cigarette which I appreciated ever so much.
Q.- Did you know that an inmate without even being tried or judged and merely on the judgment of a political department could be sent to a concentration camp? Now what were you misgivings?
A.- At that time, I didn't know that a person could be sent to a concentration camp or rather if a person could be sent to a concentration camp after a judgment or an interrogation or something of the kind, a trial or a hearing. I only knew that the concentration camps were a state institution, and at the time I was convinced that they had a legal basis. As a solider, I was not in a position to judge if such an institution was good or bad. At the time, I really didn't volunteer to go to one of those concentration camps but I was transferred, ordered to one of those camps by Office 14.
Q.- Witness, political and criminal inmates were all placed together in one camp. The inmates came from all over the world. They were members of all sorts of nations. Did you ever have any misgivings about that?
A.- As the agency where I was active had no direct contact with inmates, it was lonly in the course of months after I had started working there, that I found out that there were various categories of inmates in the concentration camps. Even during my internment in Neuengamme, we, as people who were placed under arrest, automatically were placed in the same camp due to the reason that they were professional criminals.
At this time in 1944, as a leading dentist, I had no possibility whatsoever to do anything at all for the inmates, to facilitate their position unless I did something within my own field of task -- that is, within the dental field.
Q Witness, we are told that the concentration camps were veiled in secrecy, is that correct?
A Yes, one could really say so because the camps, generally speaking, were far away from human habitation far away from cities and agencies. It was only thus that it was possible to carry out all those crimes which were committed in the concentration camps. If you were an outsider, you never heard anything about it,
THE PRESIDENT: You said that you yourself were interned in Neuengamme?
A Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: How did that happen? Was it after you were captured?
A Yes, indeed. I was captured on the 3rd of May, 1945, by the British, went through several camps, and on the 30th of May, 1945, I came to the former concentration camp of Neuengamme, which is the civilian internment camp used by the British now.
BY DR. RATZ:
Q In your particular case, witness, the main question is if you as a dentist within Office D-III were within that sphere of secrecy or outside of it?
A I believe that that sphere of secrecy is not to be understood in such a way that every person who was working in the camp would know everything about it, much rather, that those crimes which were committed in the camps were restricted, and the knowledge of those crimes were also restricted to a small circle of people. Those people who were ordering those crimes and those who were carrying them out were very much interested in that fact being that way. In Amtgruppe D where I was active and which was quite some way from there, the knowledge of such actions must have been even smaller. Even the witness for the prosecution, Herr Eugen Kogon, testified here, when answering one of the questions put to him by one of the defense counsel, as to how for instance, the death reports or sick reports were reported or forwarded to the higher-ups, and what the channels were for the names of inmates who were working in the factory; and I shall the trial record here on page 930 of the German translation.
This is what Kogon stated: "The channel went from those enterprises to the camp commander of that particular concentration camp, and from there, it went to the hospital of the inmates in the concentration camp. Then it went to the labor allocation leader, then the report went on to the WVHA Department D, and that in two copies. First of all to Amtsgruppe D, then to Office D-III, through the hospital, and through the medical officer there. Then from the labor allocation leader through that department which dealt with these inmates' labor questions. However, that did not necessarily have to become known to every member of that department, let alone to all those who participated in the Amtsgruppe." As a dentist, I am sure I would have been absolutely unfit to be taken into the circle of secrecy and to know all those things.
Q Witness, I shall now come to the last chapter of my interrogations, which is the chapter concerning the conspiracy which is a new chapter.
Do you know -
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps this would be a good time to take the recess.
(A recess was taken)
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. HOFFMAN (Counsel for defendant Scheide): Your Honor, in the preparation of the case of Scheide, I would like to ask the Tribunal if they can tell me now whether there will be any session tomorrow.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunals are sitting jointly tomorrow morning, but we will resume the afternoon session at the usual time, a quarter of two.
HERMANN POOK - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION - Continued BY DR. RATZ:
Q Witness, you are charged with having participated in a common enterprise or conspiracy. I must, therefore, ask you some questions about the position you occupied in relation to the entire plan, first of all, within the WVHA? You have already stated that you were not the Chief Dentist, because such a position did not exist.
A Yes. In the WVHA and the entire Waffen-SS we did not have a Chief Dentist. However, the defendant Pohl has also stated on the witness stand that he did not know anything about the existence of a dentist in Office D-III. Therefore, if this position had been of any importance whatsoever, then at least Pohl, who was the Chief of the Main Office, would have had to have had knowledge of it. The same thing applies to other important people in the WVHA.
Q Were you Office Chief or Deputy Chief of an office in the WVHA? Were you Chief of a Main Department, or were you Chief in any office or department? How could your official position be described?
A I was not Office Chief, nor was I a Deputy Office Chief, nor was I in charge of a department or main department. The establishment of the position of Leading Dentist at that time was carried out by Office XIV in the Medical Office, and not in the WVHA. The designation "Leading Dentist" was not connected with a corresponding position. In no organization chart which has been submitted here about the WVHA is any dental agency mentioned, or has the word "Leading Dentist" been used.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
The only exception is the chart on the wall here, which is to that extent incorrect. I was an expert and consultant, exclusively in dental matters, with the Chief of the Office D-III. Therefore, I was not an expert in administrative matters either.
Q Were you as a dental expert ever invited to a session or an official conference, or did you participate in any meetings; that is to say, with the Chief of the Main Office Pohl or with Gluecks, or with any Office Chief of Amtsgruppe D?
A I did not participate in any meetings or conferences of the Chief of the Main Office Pohl in the HVHA, nor did I attend any meetings within Office Group D, with Gruppenfuehrcr Gluecks. I do not even believe that any meetings took place within Amtsgruppe D. However, I do not know that for certain. The conferences of the commanders which took place at intervals of several months and which have been mentioned so frequently in this trial--I never participated in any of them.
THE PRESIDENT: You mean the concentration camp commanders?
A Yes, I refer to the meetings of the concentration camp commanders.
Q Did you have any meetings with members of the WVHA outside of your line of duty?
A When I did not go to Berlin in the evening in order to work in my practice there, then I stayed within the area of the dental station, and I would stay in my room there. There I would be together with the colleagues who besides me were also working in the dental station.
Q During your time of work in the WVHA how many of the defendants did you know?
A I knew Sommer. However, I only knew him very slightly. Our acquaintance was limited to saying 'Hallo' to him a few times. However we did not have any official contact. I occasionally saw the Defendant Eirenschmalz in the street, and I therefore knew him by sight. I also knew by sight, without ever having talked to them, the Defendants Pohl, Frank, Fanslau, Georg Loerner and Scheide. The other defendants were completely unknown to me, and I did not even know them by name. I only met these people here for the first time in the prison.
Q Did you know Himmler personally?
A No. I only saw Himmler from a very far distance once or twice during my membership in the mounted SS. However, I never talked to him. I knew Gluecks, and I already stated before that I was in his office on one occasion to see him. I was assigned to Office Group D. At that time I had to report to him as was customary.
Q How about Liebenhenschel?
A When I was assigned to Office Group D, I believe that Liebenhenschel had already left. It is possible that I met him on some later occasion. However, I don't know that any more.
Q How about Hoess?
A Hoess was chief of Office D for "Dog" I. On some occasions I used to see him within the building. However, I never talked to him because we did not have any official contacts with each other.
Q How about Melmer?
A I have heard the name of Melmer here for the first time in this trial, but that name was completely unknown to me at the time.
Q How about Globocnik?
A The name of Globocnik was completely unknown to me also, and I only heard of him for the first time in the course of this trial.
Q How about Wippern?
A Wippern who was as I saw from the Poles administrative officer in the garrison of Lublin was completely unknown to me. I have heard this name here for the first time.
Q On the 11th of April in the course of this trial the name of Professor Schenk has been mentioned here, and it was stated that you had known him personally.
THE PRESIDENT: What name was that please?
Q Schenk. That was Schenk, S-c-h-e-n-k.
A Schenk was also completely unknown to me. I did not know Schenk before, and I did not know that we had a food inspector within the WVHA. That fact was completely unknown to me.
Q On the first of October, 1940, you were conscripted into the Waffen-SS. After you had completed your military training, you were assigned to the medical office of the Waffen-SS, the department dental service. Did you volunteer for this assignment, or did you volunteer to become leading dentist in the Office D-III?
A No, I did not volunteer for service in the medical office, nor did I request my assignment to Office D-III. The Office XIV and its office chief ordered this assignment for me. It was not possible for any member of the military service to select his own assignment.
Q Before that time did you have any contacts with the WVHA?
A Before I was assigned to Amtsgruppe D, I did not have any contact whatsoever with the WVHA.
Q Assuming that for some reason or other you had the desire to leave the Waffen-SS during the war, could you have done that?
A No, service in the Waffen-SS was considered as military service, and I was conscripted for that by law. That was exactly like doing service in any other part of the armed services, It was impossible for me to leave that service.
I would not have been able to leave it either if I had volunteered for the Waffen-SS, which was not the case. I could have only left the Waffen-SS by incurring severe punishment, and that, of course, would have been desertion.
Q Why were you assigned to these positions which we have already described in the Waffen-SS?
A I am unable to tell you that. As I stated before, Office XIV ordered me to take over these assignments. I only know that my use in the establishment, and later on the direction of the dental station at Berlin, that this was based on my experience, for my years in my own practice.
Q You joined the SS through the Ride-Sport-Unit, and you went to the Mounted-SS. You are now charged or suspected of having joined a conspiracy with other persons in order to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. During your membership in the Waffen-SS, what was your political activity?
A Political activity within the Waffen-SS was prohibited, just like in all the other branches of the armed forces. The soldier did not have any right to vote either. He was excluded from that also. During his membership in the Wehrmacht or the Waffen-SS his membership in the Allgemeine-SS or the Reiter-SS rested, and also his membership to the Party rested. This was also expressed by the fact that during this time he did not have to pay any membership fees to these organizations.
Q Before you had been conscripted into the Waffen-SS and when you were still a member of the Reiter-SS, did you receive any socalled ideological instructions and lectures?
A When I was a member of the Reiter-SS at the very beginning we did not receive any such lectures. As I have already stated, very soon afterwards I was used as a dentist, and from that time I only worked as a dentist, and I did not participate in any other service, except for horseback riding.