Q In this trial the Reinhardt Action, which is one of the main points of the indictment, that is the extermination of Jews in the concentration camps, and the use of their property is mentioned. In the documents introduced by the Prosecution it also stated that gold has been removed from the mouths of deceased Jews, and that it was delivered to the Reich Bank. Did you have anything to do with the Reinhardt Action, or, did you know anything about the Reinhardt Action?
A I had nothing to do with the Reinhardt Action, nor did I know of it. The name "Reinhardt Action" was absolutely unknown to me at the time. I heard it for the first time here in the trial when I heard it mentioned from the documents here. At the time I was not a member of the WVHA, and I was not even in Germany. I would like to mention two important documents which were introduced by the prosecution for that particular period of time on the Reinhardt Action. One of them is Himmler's order about the economic development of the whole thing, which is document No. No--64, Exhibit No. 486 and it is contained in Document Book No. 19. The other one is a letter by Globocnik where he states that the Reinhardt Action was completed on 19 October 1943, and that all camps had been dissolved. That document is contained in Document Book 18, Exhibit No. 473, Document No. NO-056, and that is the second document mentioned in this connection. From both documents can be seen that the date, or the approximate period of time is approximately the time when I was transferred to the WVHA, so that for that reason I could not know anything about it. Nor did I later on, during my service in Office D-3, learn anything about those facts.
Q As to the first document you mentioned here, NO-064, which is time document on Economic development as to Reinhardt Action, when was the winding up of the Reinhardt Action ordered according to this document?
A On 22 September 1943.
Q And when did you join Office D-3?
A I started to work on D-3 early in December.
Q Would you like to say then that due to the date, or with respect to the time and to the date, you could not possibly have participated in the Reinhardt Action?
A Yes. From these two documents this becomes clear. However, even the reports which I received about the recovered gold teeth, showed so small amounts that I could not possibly have thought there was a mass extermination during all this time.
Q Did you gain knowledge of such thing while speaking with Dr. Lolling, and other members of Amtsgruppe-D?
AAs I said before I was busy all day at the depot station, and whenever I did not return to Berlin in the evening, I had a room at the depot station where I slept when I was in Oranienburg. The other members of Amtsgruppe-D, and so far as they did not live with their families, were billeted in the Building of Amtsgruppe-D. Even if me or the other circle of Amtsgruppe-D would have known about such actions, I don't know anything about it. Well, even then I did not learn anything, because I had no contact with any of these comrades. Many of then were not even known to no according to their names. Dr. Lolling himself never did talk about these things. In any case, our conversations dealt only with dental questions.
Q: Could you have found out anything about it on the basis of the mail which you received in the camp and on the basis of orders which you received from your subordinates? Do you think you could have gained any knowledge that somebody on the outside could not have had?
A: As I stated before, all of the mail came to Lolling first. I was shown only that mall that was in direct connection with my work and of which I had to have knowledge. However, reports and regulations which were coming from my superior agencies, regardless of whether they came from XIV or Lolling; dealt only with dental matters.
Q: You wish to say then that it really was not a fact that all the members of Amtsgruppe D knew anything about the extermination of the Jews?
A: No, I should think not. I should think that not all of them knew about it, but only those who could be considered people who issued orders or were executives. As a dentist, I had nothing to do with those things, because the mass exterminations in the East were surely outside of the dentist's professional framework. That was the reason why I did not have to know anything shout it on an informational basis.
Q: In your sphere of activity or authority as a dentist, did you have any dealings with "secret" or "top secret" matters?
A: No, the dental matters were not of such importance that they were to be considered secret or top secret. The only regulation existing was that the report concerning the removal of gold from the teeth was to be treated as secret. That, I am sure, was the lowest level of the secrecy regulations. Even that regulation was not always complied with, and all of those reports did not at all times come in as secret or top secret.
Q: I would like to show you now Document Book 5 and particularly NO-1963, Exhibit 155, which is on Page 171 of the German and Page 165 of the English Document Book. The Prosecution here submitted quite a few reports on the gold. What do you have to say about that?
A: These reports are unknown to me. I did not know that such reports had to be sent in by the camp physicians -- not by the camp dentists -- of the political departments in the camps. But even in those documents, as a reference, it states, "Reichsfuehrer SS, dated 23 September 1940." That is the original order for the removal of gold teeth.
Q: A report was made out for each inmate on the tooth gold obtained? Will you as a dentist tell us whether this is a small or large amount of gold.
A: The amounts of 1 gram, 1.2 grams, 1.5 grams, are so small that this cannot be anything but one single tooth. One of the reports about 5.8 grams was probably a bridge.
Q: In the same document book -- No. 5 -
THE PRESIDENT: Just a minute. How much gold does this letter indicate was taken from the mouth of this one Danish prisoner? Our document book shows that it was 5,800 grams of gold, which is ridiculous. What should it be -- 5.8?
A: No, Your Honor, that means 5.8 grams.
THE PRESIDENT: There is quite a difference.
BY DR. RATZ:
Q: In the same document book we have document NO-1521, which is on Page 72 of the German document book, and here the Chief of the Central Office ordered on 1 January 1943 that the gold should be collected in the camp for a whole year and that smaller amounts of gold were not to be sent in monthly. What do you have to state about that?
A: I mentioned this document before on one occasion It was unknown to me, as this comes from the year 1942 -or, rather -- let me correct this -- 1943. In other words, in a time when I was not in Office D--III as yet. It can be seen that the regulations concerning the gold came from Office D-1. As I stated before, it confirms the fact that the amounts of gold in the camps were rather small. Otherwise, such an order would not have been necessary. As far as knowledge of this order for the dentists is concerned, or even for the dentist in D-III, that was not necessary, because the sending was only to be by the administrative offices, and the dentists, both those in the camp and also the dentists in D-III, had nothing to do with this matter.
Q: In Document NO-1923, Document Book XII, Exhibit 552, Amtsgruppe chief D, "ordered on 13 January 1944 that as of February 1944 the monthly reports that were sent in by teletype so far were submitted to that office were sent by courier as of now." What do you have to say about that document?
A: I had no knowledge of that document though it came in on 13 January 1944. I saw it here for the first time.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the Exhibit Number you are talking about now?
DR. RATZ: Exhibit 552, Your Honor. Document Book 22.
BY DR. RATZ:
Q: What would you like to say about that?
A: I had no knowledge of this letter which was sent out by Gluecks in January 1944. From this letter it can be seen that all other reports which came from the dental Nations of the camps were to be sent to the Chief of Office D-III.
As far as that goes, that letter is nothing but a compilation of reports which are necessary, and this letter describes the channels which the letter has to follow to go from the camp to Amtsgruppe D. I naturally did not know how these reports were sent to Amtsgruppe D. I did not know whether they went through the mail or via courier service. Now it is ordered that hey must be sent via courier. There is bound to be some sort of a connection between the fact that the mail system was no longer sure enough because of the repeated air raids.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
BY JUDGE PHILLIPS:
Q Witness, look at Document 464, no, Exhibit 64 in Document Book No. III.
A Your Honor, I do not have it.
Q 76 of the English, Exhibit 64.
A Will you tell me the NO number, your Honor, please?
Q 1548.
A Yes, indeed, your Honor.
Q The same date, 13th of January, 1944, and it is the same date as Exhibit 552. It appears to be an order signed by Hoess, H-o-e-s-s, as Chief of Office D-I. Among other things he states in this order that reports are to be made; one, name of prisoners; two, execution, of the number of executions carried out; then six, number of people given special treatment. He states in this order that these reports must be made to the chiefs of Offices D-II and D-III, and the figures must check with reports made to them. Now, do you know anything about that order?
A No, your Honor. I don't even know this order. As can be seen from the top of the document, it concerns reports on protective custody camps.
Q Yes.
AAnd it is absolutely unknown to me. I never did see that letter, sir.
Q Well, if the reports had to check with reports in your office, you should have known something about it, shouldn't you?
A I don't know how to understand that, your Honor. What reports? These reports had to check with what reports that I received?
Q Well, the reports were to come from the camp commanders of the concentration camps, and they were to come to your office and D-II.
A I have no idea whatsoever what reports went into D-III. I only saw that mail which dealt explicitly with dental matters that I had to know. I don't know what Lolling received.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
Q Wouldn't you think these reports came to your office for the purpose of shewing how many people had been killed so that you would know what to expect in the way of dental gold?
A No, no, your Honor. That was not important at all for me, what kind of gold came and what amounts. I had nothing to do with that.
BY DR. RATZ:
Q Witness, the Witness Dr. Kahr, on the 10th of April, which is in the German record on Page 215, to the question whether the gold from the teeth of the deceased inmates, was sent to the Office of the Chief Physician in Office D-III, has answered that he couldn't say that for sure. Whereupon, the Prosecution asked him: "You did know, however, that it went to Office D for III, didn't you?" The witness answered, "Yes". Now, Witness, I am asking you this question, would you like to make a statement about that?
A There was no such thing as an office of the leading dentist, and the gold of the deceased inmates was not even sent to Office D-III, but as I stated before, and as it is confirmed by administrative leaders, to Office D-IV, and then to Melmer in Berlin, to the WVHA, that is to say, without the slightest contact, without even touching Office D-III.
Q We shall now come to another chapter, to the chapter concentration camps. During your activity as leading dentist in Office D-III, did you ever visit concentration camps? Give me all the details about your visits.
A I have stated before that I did see a few camps, that is to say, not the camps themselves, but the dental offices in the camp. It would have been necessary, perhaps, to go on official trips to visit the dental stations in the camps more frequently. However, I have to say that Lolling was against it in general, and that I couldn't get that idea through in his head, to go to this and that place. I did not have a basic permit to enter camps. That permit was given from case to case, and that only in order to visit the dental Court No. II, Case No. 4.clinics.
That was explicitly stated on the passes. For the main part I went to the camp because some dentist ashed me to come and see him by private letter. He didn't ask me to do so officially, privately, and that usually because he had difficulties with the camp physician who was his superior. The relationship between physician and dentist has never been too good, regardless of where it was, even with the field units. Even with the field units one had the same difficulties. That was usually the case when new dispensary barracks were being established, particularly in 1944 when several new branch camps were established. Now if a new barrack was to be established then a dental station was also installed there. That is how difficulties arose, to obtain those rooms for offices which the dentist thought he needed. This was the particular reason for my visit to Dora, D-o-r-a, in Nordhausen, namely to get the idea through with Dr. Kahr that he place more rooms at the disposal of the dental clinic which was to be established in new medical barracks there than the ones he had anticipated. At the time I had a long negotiation, which lasted for half an hour in his office, and finally got it through that instead of that one room, or one office, we received two larger rooms and one smaller in this particular barracks mentioned before.
This station was a station in the protective custody camp. That is where the inmates were to receive their treatment. Generally speaking, my visits were limited to a stay within the KommandanturArea. Visits of the protective custody camp itself were ordinarily limited to a very short period of time for the inspection of the dental station. The visits usually took place in the morning or early in the afternoon, that is to say, at a time when the inmates were out for work in those labor details. That is the reason why, generally speaking, I only saw very few inmates, only those inmates who were working within the camp area.
Q Now, you tell us that the small outside camps were established outside the main concentration camps. Therefore, there must Court No. II, Case No. 4.have arisen the question if a dental clinic was to be established in the outside camps for the inmates.
How was it that that was carried out?
A In 1944, as I have stated before, quite a few outside camps were added to the old concentration camps. Within the framework of the medical supply for those camps, the supply with dental material was also to be handled. That was a matter which was left up to the dentist of that particular main camp together with the camp physician, that is to say, his official superior. He had to decide, after having had conferences with the camp physician, if it will be necessary to have a dental clinic in that camp, or then if it would be sufficient if he or someone else in the station would come to the office a few days a week in order to take care of the inmates there. He wrote a report to Office D-III on this question, and when a new station was to be established then he applied for the equipment in Office XIV.
Q. What were the activities of the concentration dentists?
A. The concentration camp dentist had to take care of all the members of the administrative staff of the camp, and of the guards. As far as treatment of inmates was concerned, it varied. One in a while, the SS dentist did it, and later on in 1944-- approximately, due to the increase in the number of dental stations, dentists from the ranks of inmates were used. Those were subordinated to the dentists, professionally, and the camp dentist was responsible for their activity, for everything else that occurred in the camp area.
Q. Could the camp dentist carry out any correspondence on his own?
A. No; all the mail which he had to send out had to be turned over to his superior, the camp physician; that camp physician wrote on it "acknowledged" or "viewed" and that mail was then sent to Office D-3; and from there to Lolling. Lolling then handed it over to me, as far as it concerned me.
Q. How were the installations, the dental installations, in the concentration camps?
A. The dental stations which were established before the war, or early in the beginning of the war, were established in a wonderful Way. During the course of the first few years of the war, this equipment and material became rather scarce; every thing had to be established on a makeshift basis. That, of course, did not affect the treatment of the inmates in the concentration camps. It was just more difficult for the man who was giving the treatment to work under those conditions, and things would have been much easier for him if he had everything he needed for that.
Q. Will you tell us a few figures with reference to the various dental clinics in the camps?
A. That is very difficult for me to tel you that. All I can recall is that the camp Gross-Rosen, towards the end of 1944, I believe, had sixty or seventy dental installations.
I know of Sarchsenhausen. And that it had, I believe, from between thirty to forty dental installations, and all the other camps varied on the same level.
Q. How was the treatment of the concentration camp inmates in the camps? Was everything done for the inmates as was necessary-in a dental respect? Was that done professionally and according to all the principles of the dental profession?
A. During that time when I was a dentist in Office-D-3, I never heard any complaints. All dental work which was necessary could be carried out.
Q. Was all that done with the necessary conscientiousness required by dentists?
A. I never heard anything to the contrary. I have to assume that the dentists--as far as the SS dentists were concerned--treated all patients with the same conscientiousness.
Q. How was it then with the false teeth? How was it with the material and the drugs, and particularly as far as anesthetics were concerned?
A. False teeth could he manufactured in all camps; that is, the larger camps and all the main camps where the installations were rather good. In all those stations which were nearly established in the year 1944, there was not always the possibility to make false teeth. The dentist helped himself by dimply carrying out the preliminary work in his won station, and the false teeth were then manufactured in the main camp. All the camps which were a part of a main camp--were constantly in connection with each other for the delivery of materials.
Q. How was it with the drugs, material and anesthetics?
A. All material, drugs and anesthetics which were used in order to eliminate pain when dental operations were to be carried out, were delivered up to the very last few days of the war.
In any case, all those things which the dentist required each month, he received. I stated before that from the summer of 1944 onward, when I dealt with those things personally, I had to inquire several times if the medical stocks in the medical camps were being delivered to the fulliest extent.
Q. You, as leading physician, Office D-3--did you ever write any general regulations or decrees concerning the treatment of inmates? For instance, that certain medical or dental care was to be denied inmates--because they were inmates? Or because, due to the war, the drugs and material had become rather scarce?
A. I could; not give any such instructions, and I really can't recall that any of my superior agencies ever issued such an order or regulation. The material was always delivered.
Q. You told us all about those things yesterday. Would you explain to us again today with one single sentence the general attitude of the dentists towards the inmates?
A. As far as I know--and I know nothing to the contrary-the attitude of a dentist towards his patients is the same, regardless of what circles on what units his patients came from. That attitude was always a good one. Therefore, inmates were treated with the same conscientiousness as SS men, for instance. As far as I remember.
Q. Did you make any difference between the inmates, for instance between the Jewish, the political inmates, eh?
A. I know nothing about the fact that the difference was made here.
Q. The witnesses Abend and Lauber declared on the 11 of April--it is contained in page 294 of the German record and 319-they stated that you, on one of your visits in Ohrdruf, had ordered that teeth of inmates be pulled without any anesthetic, Is that correct?
A. Both witnesses testified here that they had not heard that alleged order from me, personally, and that they had been told about it by other inmates. I had no right whatsoever to issue such an order, and I would not have had any reason to do so in the first place.
Q. I would like to show you now Document Book 21. You will find there the affidavit by the former concentration camp physician of Ohrdruf, Dr. Greunuss, which was introduced by the Prosecution. It is NO-2156, Exhibit No. 519. It is on page 21 of the English Document Book and 19 of the German. The witness, Greunuss, towards the end of his affidavit is telling us something about a visit which you payed to Ohrdruf, He states in that affidavit all sorts of remarks which you made about the dental care for the inmates. Would you tell us, first of all, the circumstances pertaining to your visit to Ohrdruf?
A. My visit in Ohrdruf took place in the middle of March 1945. I did not leave Oranienberg with the intention to visit Ohrdruf. In the month of March, 1945, anyway, there was hardly the possibility to do anything because our activity in Oranienberg was as most stopped. A friend of mine who came from a field unit with a car had something to take care of in Buchenwals, since there were some officers of the WVHA, of the Main Office, there at that time; as I had nothing else to do in Office D-3 at that time, I succeeded in getting it through that I could go and see that place, together with him. For me, personally, there was one reason behind it all: I could visit my family which was near there, in Harz.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
It must have been around the 12th or 13th of March that I found out in Buchenwald itself that the camp of Ohrdruf not so long ago had been declared an outside camp of Buchenwald and subordinated to Buchenwald. My family, by the way, was in the Harz Mountains. The physician from the garrison of Buchenwald had been transferred to that place. Due to the now subordination, difficulties had arisen in supplying physicians there, so that the physicians at Buchenwald went to Ohrdruf in order to have a conference with the physician there. Dr. Greunuss had to go there and see him anyway. Therefore, I availed myself of the opportunity to join him in his trip, and I also took Dr. Abraham with me, who was the immediate superior of the dentists in Ohrdruf.
Q After you arrived at Ohrdruf, how did the whole thing continue, or what occurred there?
A We arrived in Ohrdruf towards the evening. We went straight into the dispensary of the training place, a stone building, and there we were received by Dr. Scholz, who was the dentist in charge there. He took us to Greunuss and I was introduced to Greunuss. Between the camp physician of Buchenwald and Dr. Greunuss shortly afterwards a very vivid conversation concerning medical matters developed. As I wasn't very interested in all that, I went to the dental station near by, together with Abraham, and Scholz was awaiting us. In the dental clinic, we discussed those things with Scholz, which were to be discussed concerning dental matters. It didn't take very long; after ton or fifteen minutes we returned and we stayed within the rooms of the dispensary the same evening, Dr. Abraham, as well as Scholz, was there all the time on that evening and they were in my surroundings all the time. I spent the night with Abraham in the same room. On that evening in the presence of Greunuss I am sure there were no medical or dental questions discussed, because we had done that already in the dispensary itself, and there really wasn't any necessity to do so afterwards.
Q You made no decisions whatsoever that only the least to be Court No. II, Case No. 4.expected treatment was to be given to the inmates, that is to say, the extraction of teeth without giving an anaesthetic injection and things like that which were testified to by Dr. Abend here?
A No, I couldn't possibly make any such decision and I really wouldn't know why I would have made such a decision for one single camp, Ohrdruf. In this case, there was no reason whatsoever for doing so.
Q Dr. Greunuss also made heavy charges against you particularly with respect to the treatment of inmates in a dental respect, saying that it was too humane. He quoted you as saying that it would be too humane to send material and that you did not believe in those democratic ways of doing things and that you had ordered that the very least only should be given the inmates and particularly that you had forbidden anybody to manufacture false teeth and that due to that order the inmates were not in a position to digest their food in such a manner that no stomach diseases would occur. That do you have to say about that?
A I already stated before that there was no reason nor any possibility to make such decisions. All these charges as they have been preferred against me by Greunuss are absolutely unknown to me and they are new to me, nor would I ever have given any order, as stated, to forbid anybody else to manufacture false teeth. I couldn't possibly have given any such order to a physician, but, if one considers the period of time, which was the middle of March, 1945, you will see that is not logical. I understand that the Americans took Ohrdruf on the 2d of April, 1945. Even if you take that date as a proof, it can be seen that during those 14 days which preceded the liberation the arrangements could not possibly have occasioned such stomach diseases that would lead to death, but even in the period of time prior to that, I believe, that the camp only existed there for half a year. Greunuss would have had the opportunity then to have false teeth prior to that time up to the middle of March, but apparently he didn't do that either. After all, if he has any patients in his dispensary who are suffering Court No. II, Case No. 4.from such diseases then the least he could have done would have been to find out what their diseases were and to make sure if the whole thing was due to an indigestion due to bad teeth.
Now, if I were the physician, if I were in his place, I would have seen that the possibility would be to given to make such false teeth to take care of the inmates. Now, even if I had prohibited them to make false teeth towards the middle of March, even then, according to my opinion, he should not have been satisfied with that, but rather through official channels, that is to say, through his superior in Buchenwald he would have had to report to Lolling. He would have had to report about it and I remember that particular restriction which he had already made and all those things didn't happen and couldn't possibly happen, because there was no such thing as forbidding them to make those false teeth.
Q You therefore, stated that Dr. Greunuss' testimony concerning your statements was wrong and erroneous?
A I have already thought over the reason why Dr. Greunuss made such a statement, but I can't think of any reason, because I hardly know the man, unless the reason is that in those conferences which took place between the camp physician in Buchenwald and the administrative department which were not always carried out in good terms, I was a witness without even getting mixed up in the matter, because I was not competent to handle medical matters and I didn't know anything about them. I really can't think of any other reason. I can't understand all that.
DR. RATZ: May it please Your Honors, I am in a position to present two affidavits concerning that conference between Dr. Pook and Greunuss and also can present witnesses who were present during all those conferences that Physician Dr. Karl Abraham and the dentist Roman Scholz. The affidavit by Dr. Abraham is in my document book on page 3 and I would like to submit it as Exhibit No. 4. This affidavit by Roman Scholz is on page 41 of my document book. I would like to introduce it as Exhibit No. 5. Will you please permit me to read something out of Court No. II, Case No. 4.this as this statement made by Dr. Scholz is a rather heavy charge against my client.
Dr. Abraham in his affidavit states under paragraph 4, page 37 of my document book:
4.) "I can still remember Dr. Pook's visit to Buchenwald in the spring of 1945. He inspected first of all the dental clinic in Buchenwald jointly with Dr. Schiedlausky, who was garrison and Camp Physician of Buchenwald, and then drove with me and Schiedlausky to Ohrdruf; this building project had been put under the control of the Concentration Camp Buchenwald only a short time before; I do not know what the subordination conditions were before then. The dentist Roman Scholz was appointed in Ohrdruf, who had set up there the dental clinic for the treatment of the guard unit and of the prisoners. When we arrived we first of all met Scholz who took us to Greunuss. Scholz went away again to the clinic, we, Pook, Schiedlausky and I, were again alone with Greunuss. Schiedlausky had several matters to discuss with Greunuss, which no longer interested Pook and myself. Then Pook and I went to the clinic, which Scholz showed us. The visit did not last long, Pook was satisfied with the equipment and the working. So there was in Ohrdruf a firmly established dental station, which was a rest of the troop training centre; but it was not put at our disposal by the competent military administrative officials, so that dental surgical equipment had to be ordered from Berlin, which arrived indeed. It was a mobile field station, as far as I can remember, where as far as I know the prisoners were also treated; of course it is also possible that Scholz set up a special emergency station for the prisoners. The dental surgery according to Scholz's statement and according to our personal impression, which was cursory to be sure, at the mentioned visit, was carried out normally.
Pook and I then returned to the room where Schiedlausky and Greunuss were. At that time Greunuss praised Scholz in every respect when talking to me; now too in prison Greunuss has repeatedly praised Scholz to me as a skilled dental attendant and declares bin to be a Court No. II, Case No. 4.great chap (fabelhafter Kerl). We then sat down and spent the evening together; I can in no way recollect that the dental surgical treatment of prisoners once became the subject of conversation.
I would certainly have remembered it if Pook had made statements to Greunuss such as those of which Greunuss gave evidence in his affidavit of 21 February 1947. Scholz and I were with Dr. Pook all the time, it is quite impossible that a long tete-a-tete conversation could have taken place between Greunuss and Pook.
"I consider this affidavit of Greunuss, so far as it concerns the alleged statements of Dr. Pook, as false; I must have remembered at least something of them. Nor can it be a question of mere exaggeration. The physicians Dr. Katzenellenbogen and Dr. Bender have often, now in captivity, made statements to me to the effect that Dr. Greunuss was to be described as a psychopath. It already occurred to me myself, as also to other friends, e.g., he once wanted to draw God all day in spiral and triangular figures. If Dr. Pook had really issued the orders reported by Greunuss, in the first place I and Scholz must have come to know about it. More over, Dr. Pook was not authorized to be a dental surgeon at all, to issue a direct order to Dr. Greunuss. In addition, I would remark that I am not indicted in the Buchenwald trial at present in progress."
Dr. Greunuss is a defendant in the Buchenwald trial.
THE PRESIDENT: The Court will recess until Tuesday morning, July 8, at 9:30.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess until 0930 hours, 8 July.